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Hello Everyone:

My family like most American family's has a long history of being involved in the Christian Church belief structure. On my mother's side, her Father's Uncle's were Brush Arbor Preachers at the turn of the century. Several of my cousin's are Southern Baptist Preachers, Sunday School Teachers and one is an Overseas Missionary. I was raised in this belief system, having a mixture throughout my lifetime of Baptist, Methodist, and Pentecostal influences. So my foundational belief's were strongly Bible oriented.

Three and a half years ago I stumbled across the Urantia Book and needless to say I haven't been the same. I changed my whole perspective and thinking about God and his creation virtiually overnight.
Why? Because I was spiritually hungry, I wasn't satisfied with what I had been fed all of my life. I knew that there was more to God than what I had been taught.

I have stated here before that I believe that the UB found me and I really believe this. I was searching but I did not know what exactly I was searching for.

I feel that there are many people just like me who are searching and looking for something more and just do not know where or how to find the right answers :!:

I am intrigued by Bro. Dave and his attempts to debate the UB/Bible subjects on the Christian discussion board that he visits. It sounds like he has only limited success however.

When I first came to truthbook.com \"endless\" was in the thick of things with his discussions about Christianity and the UB, he has since left the board and I miss the discussion.

Is it possible in some way for those of us who believe so strongly that the UB and its teachings especially the last chapter of the book \"The Life And Teachings Of Jesus\" to win over the Christians/Christian Church and get them to accept the UB and its teachings :?:

If so, how do we do this correctly without totally alienating them :idea:

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Hi WLM,

I have written quite a bit about this the past few weeks if you want to review my past posts.

You wrote: ì.. how do we do this correctly without totally alienating themî

I think a good place to start is by not thinking in terms of ëus and themí but rather think in terms of ëusí.

I consider myself a Christian and I fault the Christian community for making this so difficult in some ways, in other ways I respect their principles. The key for us is to have a full understanding of language barriers ñ words can be so important in religious discussions.

As I have written before it is my opinion that we should all be thinking -

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My people, your people. Our world.

We can put up fences with each other or we can help ourselves by learning to get along.

Using our brains to figure out how to get along. Urantian, Christian, whatever background.

Lucifer may have damned us thousands of years ago but we are damning ourselves when we refuse to work things out with each other.

It isnít his fault anymore, it is my responsibility, your responsibility. We are in this together and Jesus gave us the tools to work it out.

Carol


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I would say look for commonalities. Remember that even Jesus did NOT tell everyone when he walked the earth that the scriptures weren't infallible. He KNEW of the inconsistencies in their 'bible' back then. He did not thoughtlessly reveal this truth to everyone who came to him. I do not remember who it was... but one of the apostles whom he did reveal it to came to HIM seeking it... the apostle already sensed that Jesus knew something. I have made this mistake COUNTLESS times. Instead focus on things you both believe in and if someone seeks a truth from you or searches for the UB then tell them.

For certain religionists... many of their traditional beliefs they may just not be able to let go in this lifetime.

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Hello Carol:

I have read your posts and I admire your stand. I didn't do away with my Christian background and influences, I have just built upon that foundation and kept the good and left the negative.

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You wrote: ì.. how do we do this correctly without totally alienating themî

I think a good place to start is by not thinking in terms of ëus and themí but rather think in terms of ëusí.

Carol your point is a good one and well taken.
Quote:
I consider myself a Christian and I fault the Christian community for making this so difficult in some ways, in other ways I respect their principles. The key for us is to have a full understanding of language barriers ñ words can be so important in religious discussions.

As I have written before it is my opinion that we should all be thinking -

Its hard for me to believe that much progress can be made when they can't even get along with themselves.
Quote:
My people, your people. Our world.

We can put up fences with each other or we can help ourselves by learning to get along.

Using our brains to figure out how to get along. Urantian, Christian, whatever background.

Lucifer may have damned us thousands of years ago but we are damning ourselves when we refuse to work things out with each other.

It isnít his fault anymore, it is my responsibility, your responsibility. We are in this together and Jesus gave us the tools to work it out.

I agree, its time to quit blaming "the devil" or anyone or anything else other than ourselves. We determine our destiny, we choose either eternal life or death. :wink:

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Hello Arie:

I am pretty sure that my cousins will die in their beliefs, and this is ok because to them this is their truth.

What troubles me about them and other Christians is their lack of tolerance, forgivness, mercy and longsuffering. Todays Christian Church has the look and feel very much like the Jewish Church of Jesus's day and time. Before I even read the Urantia Book I had the revelation that Christianity had become a religion about Jesus instead of his religion.

The purpose of this thread is to look for opportunities to open a dialogue to breach the gap between those who hold fast to their Christian teachings and beliefs and those of us who want more.

Wendell

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Hi WLM,

You wrote: ìI am pretty sure that my cousins will die in their beliefs, and this is ok because to them this is their truth. What troubles me about them and other Christians is their lack of tolerance, forgivness, mercy and longsuffering.î

Jesus builds bridges, Caligastia builds walls. Forget that the others you are looking at have human failings. So do you and I. We are imperfection striving for perfection, we are not perfection itself.

When the Ub gave the story of the cave man it described him thusly: a short, misshapen, filthy, snarling hulk of a man standing, legs spread, club upraised, breathing hate and animosity as he looks fiercely just ahead., then went on to learn more about him and ended with If you could only know your fellows, you would eventually fall in love with them.

Again, donít be blinded by the human failings of our brothers and sisters in the Christian community. Spend the time to learn about them, learn the things they have been taught. When you are with them, speak with the Spirit of Truth, it will assist you. I know because that is how I make it.

Talk lists can be a little more difficult because the mode of communication is kind of anti-human. We give signals to each other with body language and voice inflection, which isnít possible here. I laugh a lot, but that doesnít come across at all in my writing from what I can tell.

If you are really interested in how to do this find a church community you are comfortable with and spend time there ñ not just attending a Sunday service but joining in a weekday Bible study and service projects associated with the church. Jesus worked with individuals one on one. That is the best way to learn. I donít argue over details either, when I am in a group I look for the substance of the Spirit of Truth. It is completely argumentative to try to nail down details that upset someone when that will be worked out in the next life. Religion is evolutionary for a reason. We arenít expected to get it all at once, no one is. The important thing is the substance of Truth, which we all can see the same.

Carol
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P.1098 In the mind's eye conjure up a picture of one of your primitive ancestors of cave-dwelling times--a short, misshapen, filthy, snarling hulk of a man standing, legs spread, club upraised, breathing hate and animosity as he looks fiercely just ahead. Such a picture hardly depicts the divine dignity of man. But allow us to enlarge the picture. In front of this animated human crouches a saber-toothed tiger. Behind him, a woman and two children. Immediately you recognize that such a picture stands for the beginnings of much that is fine and noble in the human race, but the man is the same in both pictures. Only in the second sketch you are favored with a widened horizon. You therein discern the motivation of this evolving mortal. His attitude becomes praiseworthy because you understand him. If you could only fathom the motives of your associates, how much better you would understand them. If you could only know your fellows, you would eventually fall in love with them.


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WLM wrote:
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I am intrigued by Bro. Dave and his attempts to debate the UB/Bible subjects on the Christian discussion board that he visits. It sounds like he has only limited success however.

Hi WLM,

I think our hardest hurdle is time. From ìourî side, all seems so clear, and it seems that every thinking Christian should leap with joy when we reveal the UB. Sadly, it take a lot of time for folks to ìripenî in their discontent. Like using stepping stones to cross a stream, we want to find stable footing, and then enjoy our new secure footing. It takes some time before we are no longer satisfied and are willing to look for the next place to step that will bring us closer to the truth we long for. You and I and the rest of the Uberís were ready to make that step. That is why we lunged for it when it was offered to us.

My strategy is to try to emulate the way Jesus taught, listening first, and then offering the seed of truth. Does every seed germinate? No, but I suspect many ìseedsî are taken without comment, and will gradually germinate in the fertile ground of the mind curious enough to pick them up. This is why I have asked that more folks join in on these sites. The more times the seeds are planted, and the more different posters add their support, the stronger our credibility becomes.

What truly distresses me most, is not the immediate lack of acceptance, or even the show of some interest. No, what bothers me is the TOTAL failure on my part of sufficient spiritual fruits of any kind to have ever had anyone ask how I acquired them! Truth be told, my wife has used that more than once against me, telling me she does not see the UB having changed me at all. :( (no, she has not/will not read the UB). I hope that is not true. I have for some 30 years shared the UB one way or another with literally hundreds of folks, and to my knowledge, not ONE has become a reader.(sigh) However, like a UB version of Johnny Appleseed, I will continue to sprinkle seed anywhere, and everywhere I can. The action is mine, the consequences are up to God. :wink:

Bro Dave

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I agree Carol, very good point. But people build walls either intentionally or unintentionally. This is the case with my cousins and their rock solid Southern Baptist beliefs. They have walled themselves in with their doctrines and are very happy with this-they wholeheardly believe that they are correct and will not even consider anything else. They are good decent Christians who have strong familes and are model examples in their communities. I am confortable in knowing that they will not change their belief structure-I wish they could but they proably never will.

Quote:
When the Ub gave the story of the cave man it described him thusly: a short, misshapen, filthy, snarling hulk of a man standing, legs spread, club upraised, breathing hate and animosity as he looks fiercely just ahead., then went on to learn more about him and ended with If you could only know your fellows, you would eventually fall in love with them.

Again, donít be blinded by the human failings of our brothers and sisters in the Christian community. Spend the time to learn about them, learn the things they have been taught. When you are with them, speak with the Spirit of Truth, it will assist you. I know because that is how I make it.

Talk lists can be a little more difficult because the mode of communication is kind of anti-human. We give signals to each other with body language and voice inflection, which isnít possible here. I laugh a lot, but that doesnít come across at all in my writing from what I can tell.

If you are really interested in how to do this find a church community you are comfortable with and spend time there ñ not just attending a Sunday service but joining in a weekday Bible study and service projects associated with the church. Jesus worked with individuals one on one. That is the best way to learn. I donít argue over details either, when I am in a group I look for the substance of the Spirit of Truth. It is completely argumentative to try to nail down details that upset someone when that will be worked out in the next life. Religion is evolutionary for a reason. We arenít expected to get it all at once, no one is. The important thing is the substance of Truth, which we all can see the same.

Carol


I loved this example when I first came across it-it is a true reflection of our tunnel vision. The caveman was willing to die for his family because he loved them, a true reflection of the Fathers love for us.

I have been around the block long enough to realize that arguments over doctrines will lead to little more than heated feelings.

Quote:
P.1098 In the mind's eye conjure up a picture of one of your primitive ancestors of cave-dwelling times--a short, misshapen, filthy, snarling hulk of a man standing, legs spread, club upraised, breathing hate and animosity as he looks fiercely just ahead. Such a picture hardly depicts the divine dignity of man. But allow us to enlarge the picture. In front of this animated human crouches a saber-toothed tiger. Behind him, a woman and two children. Immediately you recognize that such a picture stands for the beginnings of much that is fine and noble in the human race, but the man is the same in both pictures. Only in the second sketch you are favored with a widened horizon. You therein discern the motivation of this evolving mortal. His attitude becomes praiseworthy because you understand him. If you could only fathom the motives of your associates, how much better you would understand them. If you could only know your fellows, you would eventually fall in love with them.


Carol I believe we are on the same page here, I appreciate your comments and opinions 8) Martain Luther was a staunch Roman Catholic who wanted to see the Church Reformed not destroyed. He sought change within before the whole thing collasped from without. Sadly they powers to be of his day could not see this. Today the power of the $ dictiates much of what happens in Churches (not all but most). Most of us at least in the USA live pretty rich and confortable lives compared with some parts of the world. I have long believed that in a lot of ways we act much like spolied children always wanting more and never satisfied (Christianity as a whole), there are always indivual exceptions.

Quote:
The Life Of Jesus-paper 195, page 2086-

The great hope of Urantia lies in the possibility of a new revelation of Jesus with a new and enlarged presentation of his saving message which would spiritually unite in loving service the numerous families of his present-day professed followers.


May it happen in our lives :idea:

Wendell

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Hello Bro Dave:

Good to chat with you again, I hope all is well with ya my brother 8)
There are some seeds that are planted and do not sprount and grow for many years-such may be the case in your endevaors with these folks. You may never know the fruit of your labors but down the road surley a flower will bloom. Keep up the good fight Bro Dave-I believe you are on the right track my friend :!:

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What truly distresses me most, is not the immediate lack of acceptance, or even the show of some interest. No, what bothers me is the TOTAL failure on my part of sufficient spiritual fruits of any kind to have ever had anyone ask how I acquired them! Truth be told, my wife has used that more than once against me, telling me she does not see the UB having changed me at all. :( (no, she has not/will not read the UB). I hope that is not true. I have for some 30 years shared the UB one way or another with literally hundreds of folks, and to my knowledge, not ONE has become a reader.(sigh) However, like a UB version of Johnny Appleseed, I will continue to sprinkle seed anywhere, and everywhere I can. The action is mine, the consequences are up to God. :wink:

Bro Dave


Yes sir I can relate to this one. I have a girlfriend, a 16 year old daughter and a 7 year old daughter who seemingly catch my every mistake and fault and have absolutley no problem in reminding me of those areas where I so often lack :? I was once told that that the women folk have the heart beat of God himself-if ya don't believe it then just ask them :!:

I am not sure if all is lost because not one of those folks have become a reader of the UB. Yes I can understand your disappointment but as the UB tells us no good deed, thought or intention is ever lost :idea:

Keep the faith Bro Dave,
Wendell 8)

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The Urantia Book Is not, Nor has it ever been about converting anyone.

It is an opportunity for those that are ready for some thing more and for those that have been looking and not finding ì that which yearns deep inside of themî answers that they can not find through normal means.

The U.B. said it is not for this generation but for a future generation and, Those of us that are so privilege to have it now, Have a sacred trust in our hand.
The safe guarding and slow dissemination of it to all the world for those that are and will be ready for it.

The U.B. also says that for each person there is a religion that is right for them and what they are capable of understanding. It is not our place to pull them in to some think the donít want.

As long as they are being feed with what they have found and it is working for them, so be it, and God Be Praised.

Stay True To The Journey


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Hi JB:

I don't believe I want anyone to be converted by the UB, just accept its teachings and move up spiritually a step or two.

Quote:
It is an opportunity for those that are ready for some thing more and for those that have been looking and not finding ì that which yearns deep inside of themî answers that they can not find through normal means.


We agree here.
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The U.B. said it is not for this generation but for a future generation and, Those of us that are so privilege to have it now, Have a sacred trust in our hand.

I believe I have to disagree with you on this statement JB, the UB is for our generation as well as those that follow us.
Quote:
The safe guarding and slow dissemination of it to all the world for those that are and will be ready for it.

The U.B. also says that for each person there is a religion that is right for them and what they are capable of understanding. It is not our place to pull them in to some think the donít want.

As long as they are being feed with what they have found and it is working for them, so be it, and God Be Praised.

Yes I mostly agree with this, however I offer the following from the UB:

Quote:
The Life Of Jesus-paper 195, page 2086-

If Christianity could only grasp more of Jesus's teachings, it could do so much more in helping modern man to solve his new and increasingly complex problems.


JB I believe the best way they can better understand the Master and his religion is by reading Part IV, The Life And Teachings Of Jesus.

Wendell

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:smile: Well just out of curiosity a few years back i decided to show the urantia book to some friends at a local nondenominational, liberated church, well my friend took it home showed more church goers and probably the pastor; needless to say the out come was much what id expected, a few days later here they all show up at my house to return the book, with a huge bottle of anointing oil, they told me the book was evil, that they had to bathe, with anointing oils, all their families, plus anoint there homes, children and cars, then they gave me the book, i asked them if theyd be willing to lay hands on me as i held the book, and pray for God to show us all the truth, they readily agreed, so they splashed me down with the holy oil and commenced to praying, i prayed simply: Father show us all your devine truth, show us the truth, love, and glory contained in this book, this modern revelation that has fallen into my hands, may your will be done, Amen! well immediately i felt gods power flow through me, from the top of my head down, and then hundreds of white doves began to fly in and out of the top of my head-(crown-chakra) and i felt a sweet serene peace it was beautifull, i kept very still and quite, as they left they were murmering stuff about how they had cast the demons out of me, I just smiled as tears from heaven dropped softly on the blue cover of the urantia book, rolling onto my hands........

Tammy/Whitewolf-

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My statement is not to be agreed with or dissageed with, it is a fact that the book was written for a future generation. read up on the U.B. literature.

And I also have had some not-so kind responses from people I have given the book to.

You have to meet people where they are not where you want them.


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Hello Tammy/strongheart:

Wow I can really relate to your experience but not with the UB. I have dared to question the status quo while amongst my fellow Christian brethern and I too have been prayed over to "cast out the evil spirits". Why, just because I wasn't willing to accept the party line.

I appreciate your post because at times I get to feeling quite lonley and isolated where I live, I have no one else to share the UB with execpt with my fellow brothers and sisters here on truthbook.com.

Thanks Tammy,
Wendell :smile:

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Hello Jim:

Help me out if you will my brother, I can't find the reference you are refering to about the UB being for future generations and not ours. If you could kindly find this quote I would really appreciate it.

This is my daily goal Jim, to meet each and every person I come into contact with on their level not mine. I really am trying to see the world through the eyes of others and get away from my limited tunnel vision.

Wendell

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