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 Post subject: Why did Lucifer rebel???
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So i havent bought the book Urantia yet, but I do have a question.

In the most simplest words possible, why did Lucifer rebel and was there really a massive war in heaven??? And how long did this war last?? Thanks a bunch.


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henrywashere wrote:
So i havent bought the book Urantia yet, but I do have a question.

In the most simplest words possible, why did Lucifer rebel and was there really a massive war in heaven??? And how long did this war last?? Thanks a bunch.


Good questions, Henry,

In the simplest terms, he fell victim to pride and impatience, fell in love with himself and rejected God. The 'war in heaven' lasted two years. Go to Papers 53 & 67 to get a larger view:

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-53-lucifer-rebellion
https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-67-planetary-rebellion

.

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Richard E Warren


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henrywashere wrote:
So i havent bought the book Urantia yet, but I do have a question.

In the most simplest words possible, why did Lucifer rebel and was there really a massive war in heaven??? And how long did this war last?? Thanks a bunch.


Welcome again Henry. Always lots of interest in the "war in heaven" it seems. Lots of mythologies and religious traditions associated.

Couple of things: there has never been a "massive" rebellion throughout heaven. Only very rarely in very, very small, even miniscule sectors of very local systems in the time and space universes. Actual Paradise and Havona have never, ever been tainted by any such form of evil and sin.

Lucifer's folly was quite local and very limited in scale and scope. No being can truly challenge God's will, plan, and way to any great extent. But all beings endowed with personality do enjoy freewill and self determination. This power inherently includes the ability and right to err and create repercussions and consequences.

The pride and impatience referenced by Rick resulted in Lucifer's embrace of false liberty.

Best wishes. You can read the UB online and download for free in 16 languages! You can also listen to the audio book for free!!!

But do also buy one when you can! :D

53:5.6 (606.2) “There was war in heaven; Michael’s commander and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer, Satan, and the apostate princes); and the dragon and his rebellious angels fought but prevailed not.” This “war in heaven” was not a physical battle as such a conflict might be conceived on Urantia. In the early days of the struggle Lucifer held forth continuously in the planetary amphitheater. Gabriel conducted an unceasing exposure of the rebel sophistries from his headquarters taken up near at hand. The various personalities present on the sphere who were in doubt as to their attitude would journey back and forth between these discussions until they arrived at a final decision.

53:5.7 (606.3) But this war in heaven was very terrible and very real. While displaying none of the barbarities so characteristic of physical warfare on the immature worlds, this conflict was far more deadly; material life is in jeopardy in material combat, but the war in heaven was fought in terms of life eternal.

1. True and False Liberty

54:1.1 (613.3) Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty.

54:1.2 (613.4) True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress. False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space. Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity.

54:1.3 (613.5) Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled. True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity, and divine obligations.

54:1.4 (613.6) Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships.

54:1.5 (613.7) Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage.

54:1.6 (614.1) True liberty is the associate of genuine self-respect; false liberty is the consort of self-admiration. True liberty is the fruit of self-control; false liberty, the assumption of self-assertion. Self-control leads to altruistic service; self-admiration tends towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual as is willing to sacrifice righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust power over his fellow beings.

54:1.7 (614.2) Even wisdom is divine and safe only when it is cosmic in scope and spiritual in motivation.

54:1.8 (614.3) There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.

54:1.9 (614.4) How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects.

54:1.10 (614.5) Evolutionary man may have to contend for his material liberties with tyrants and oppressors on a world of sin and iniquity or during the early times of a primitive evolving sphere, but not so on the morontia worlds or on the spirit spheres. War is the heritage of early evolutionary man, but on worlds of normal advancing civilization physical combat as a technique of adjusting racial misunderstandings has long since fallen into disrepute.

8)

https://www.urantia.org/


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Regarding "how long did the war last"?..... In many important ways, the consequences of rebellion in the system are still with us. It's a very interesting tale of woe and suffering but also of triumph and the inevitability of good over evil and all things working for eventual good!!

It is important to understand that the universes of time and space are not perfect or perfected places (Paradise/Havona is the abode of timeleess and existential perfection - see below). Time and space reality is the arena of perfecting. Perfecting by trial and error and learning from the results and repercussions of freewill. We live in the universe of experiential wisdom. It is our response to what happens that is far more important than what happens!!

All of reality, including time and space, is pervaded by and ruled by the law of love. God's love for all of creation and all beings within creation. God is more than creator, but also is God the Divine and Affectionate parent and who personally loves all beings, great and small. No matter the errors of experience and freewill, love still and always dominates all eventuations and evolutionary outcomes over time. Neither evil nor sin can prevent this fact and truth. Love overcomes all....sooner or later!

By the way, there are no evil spirits or forces of darkness or conspiracies of doom in heaven (or on Urantia). But there is and will always be freewill. And freewill among primitive or ignorant or arrogant or selfish or immature or inexperienced beings will, naturally enough, result in suffering. You have heard the teaching that we reap what we sow?? Well that is a universal truth that describes the functional results of freewill. If truth, beauty, and goodness are sown then the fruits of the Spirit appear. If error is sown, then suffering will result...to teach us the better how to choose and how to respond.

There are many topics here at TruthBook about experiential wisdom and the rebellion and many interesting topics. I would advise you however that time in the UB itself and reading the words written by the authors will deliver a far superior experience to you in the pursuit of understanding and perspective. The Papers are inspiring and illuminating and can be life transforming for those who take the time to read, reflect, pray, and commune with the spirit within.

Best wishes to you in all things!! You are welcome to ask any questions here you may have related to the UB and universe cosmology/reality. This is a place to discover and discuss the Urantia Papers and the reality perspective presented there - and also to compare that presentation of reality with other beliefs and perspective which agree, conflict, and/or contradict the Papers. :biggrin: :idea: :?: :!: :wink:

And remember: there may be, and are, stupid answers...hahaha.....but there are no stupid questions by any sincere student and truth seeker!! Relax. Enjoy. Ask.

54:6.4 (619.1) But one thing should be made clear: If you are made to suffer the evil consequences of the sin of some member of your family, some fellow citizen or fellow mortal, even rebellion in the system or elsewhere—no matter what you may have to endure because of the wrongdoing of your associates, fellows, or superiors—you may rest secure in the eternal assurance that such tribulations are transient afflictions. None of these fraternal consequences of misbehavior in the group can ever jeopardize your eternal prospects or in the least degree deprive you of your divine right of Paradise ascension and God attainment.

54:6.5 (619.2) And there is compensation for these trials, delays, and disappointments which invariably accompany the sin of rebellion. Of the many valuable repercussions of the Lucifer rebellion which might be named, I will only call attention to the enhanced careers of those mortal ascenders, the Jerusem citizens, who, by withstanding the sophistries of sin, placed themselves in line for becoming future Mighty Messengers, fellows of my own order. Every being who stood the test of that evil episode thereby immediately advanced his administrative status and enhanced his spiritual worth.

54:6.6 (619.3) At first the Lucifer upheaval appeared to be an unmitigated calamity to the system and to the universe. Gradually benefits began to accrue. With the passing of twenty-five thousand years of system time (twenty thousand years of Urantia time), the Melchizedeks began to teach that the good resulting from Lucifer’s folly had come to equal the evil incurred. The sum of evil had by that time become almost stationary, continuing to increase only on certain isolated worlds, while the beneficial repercussions continued to multiply and extend out through the universe and superuniverse, even to Havona. The Melchizedeks now teach that the good resulting from the Satania rebellion is more than a thousand times the sum of all the evil.

54:6.7 (619.4) But such an extraordinary and beneficent harvest of wrongdoing could only be brought about by the wise, divine, and merciful attitude of all of Lucifer’s superiors, extending from the Constellation Fathers on Edentia to the Universal Father on Paradise. The passing of time has enhanced the consequential good to be derived from the Lucifer folly; and since the evil to be penalized was quite fully developed within a comparatively short time, it is apparent that the all-wise and farseeing universe rulers would be certain to extend the time in which to reap increasingly beneficial results. Regardless of the many additional reasons for delaying the apprehension and adjudication of the Satania rebels, this one gain would have been enough to explain why these sinners were not sooner interned, and why they have not been adjudicated and destroyed.

54:6.8 (619.5) Shortsighted and time-bound mortal minds should be slow to criticize the time delays of the farseeing and all-wise administrators of universe affairs.

54:6.9 (620.1) One error of human thinking respecting these problems consists in the idea that all evolutionary mortals on an evolving planet would choose to enter upon the Paradise career if sin had not cursed their world. The ability to decline survival does not date from the times of the Lucifer rebellion. Mortal man has always possessed the endowment of freewill choice regarding the Paradise career.

54:6.10 (620.2) As you ascend in the survival experience, you will broaden your universe concepts and extend your horizon of meanings and values; and thus will you be able the better to understand why such beings as Lucifer and Satan are permitted to continue in rebellion. You will also better comprehend how ultimate (if not immediate) good can be derived from time-limited evil. After you attain Paradise, you will really be enlightened and comforted when you listen to the superaphic philosophers discuss and explain these profound problems of universe adjustment. But even then, I doubt that you will be fully satisfied in your own minds. At least I was not even when I had thus attained the acme of universe philosophy. I did not achieve a full comprehension of these complexities until after I had been assigned to administrative duties in the superuniverse, where by actual experience I have acquired conceptual capacity adequate for the comprehension of such many-sided problems in cosmic equity and spiritual philosophy. As you ascend Paradiseward, you will increasingly learn that many problematic features of universe administration can only be comprehended subsequent to the acquirement of increased experiential capacity and to the achievement of enhanced spiritual insight. Cosmic wisdom is essential to the understanding of cosmic situations.

8) Bradly


Paper 11 - The Eternal Isle of Paradise

11:0.1 (118.1) PARADISE is the eternal center of the universe of universes and the abiding place of the Universal Father, the Eternal Son, the Infinite Spirit, and their divine co-ordinates and associates. This central Isle is the most gigantic organized body of cosmic reality in all the master universe. Paradise is a material sphere as well as a spiritual abode. All of the intelligent creation of the Universal Father is domiciled on material abodes; hence must the absolute controlling center also be material, literal. And again it should be reiterated that spirit things and spiritual beings are real.

11:0.2 (118.2) The material beauty of Paradise consists in the magnificence of its physical perfection; the grandeur of the Isle of God is exhibited in the superb intellectual accomplishments and mind development of its inhabitants; the glory of the central Isle is shown forth in the infinite endowment of divine spirit personality—the light of life. But the depths of the spiritual beauty and the wonders of this magnificent ensemble are utterly beyond the comprehension of the finite mind of material creatures. The glory and spiritual splendor of the divine abode are impossible of mortal comprehension. And Paradise is from eternity; there are neither records nor traditions respecting the origin of this nuclear Isle of Light and Life.

Paper 12 - The Universe of Universes

12:0.1 (128.1) THE immensity of the far-flung creation of the Universal Father is utterly beyond the grasp of finite imagination; the enormousness of the master universe staggers the concept of even my order of being. But the mortal mind can be taught much about the plan and arrangement of the universes; you can know something of their physical organization and marvelous administration; you may learn much about the various groups of intelligent beings who inhabit the seven superuniverses of time and the central universe of eternity.

Paper 13 - The Sacred Spheres of Paradise

13:0.1 (143.1) BETWEEN the central Isle of Paradise and the innermost of the Havona planetary circuits there are situated in space three lesser circuits of special spheres. The innermost circuit consists of the seven secret spheres of the Universal Father; the second group is composed of the seven luminous worlds of the Eternal Son; in the outermost are the seven immense spheres of the Infinite Spirit, the executive-headquarters worlds of the Seven Master Spirits.

13:0.2 (143.2) These three seven-world circuits of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are spheres of unexcelled grandeur and unimagined glory. Even their material or physical construction is of an order unrevealed to you. Each circuit is diverse in material, and each world of each circuit is different excepting the seven worlds of the Son, which are alike in physical constitution. All twenty-one are enormous spheres, and each group of seven is differently eternalized. As far as we know they have always been; like Paradise they are eternal. There exists neither record nor tradition of their origin.

Paper 14 - The Central and Divine Universe

14:0.1 (152.1) THE perfect and divine universe occupies the center of all creation; it is the eternal core around which the vast creations of time and space revolve. Paradise is the gigantic nuclear Isle of absolute stability which rests motionless at the very heart of the magnificent eternal universe. This central planetary family is called Havona and is far-distant from the local universe of Nebadon. It is of enormous dimensions and almost unbelievable mass and consists of one billion spheres of unimagined beauty and superb grandeur, but the true magnitude of this vast creation is really beyond the understanding grasp of the human mind.

14:0.2 (152.2) This is the one and only settled, perfect, and established aggregation of worlds. This is a wholly created and perfect universe; it is not an evolutionary development. This is the eternal core of perfection, about which swirls that endless procession of universes which constitute the tremendous evolutionary experiment, the audacious adventure of the Creator Sons of God, who aspire to duplicate in time and to reproduce in space the pattern universe, the ideal of divine completeness, supreme finality, ultimate reality, and eternal perfection.


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Thank you Rick and fanofvan!!!

But I have another question! :D

On your 2nd post you said the battle itself wasnt physical. If this is the case, how exactly did they fight amongst each other???
this conflict was far more deadly; material life is in jeopardy in material combat, but the war in heaven was fought in terms of life eternal.
What exactly does the sentence in bold mean? What exactly is "Life Eternal"???


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Yes indeed...good questions. What was the nature of the conflict? And what were the stakes? Both questions lead to many concepts I have found to be unique to the Papers.

Please use the I inks provided by Rick above and read Papers 53, 54, and 63. You will be directed to other related text. Many related topics!

First, the stakes. So....despite the material pain and gore and physical suffering of human combat and violence and wars, material death of the body is not the final termination of life. Life for mortals is potentially and hopefully and designed to be eternal and perpetual and experientially progressive. Same for all celestial created in the time and space universes.

But sufficient deliberate sin can, eventually, destroy selfhood and personality identity. Betrayal and disloyalty warp us and block Deity ministry and connection. Such mind and spirit poisons can indeed become deadly and terminate eternal life by turning away from reality and becoming irrelevant to reality. God's mercy and love are always given but must also be accepted and chosen by freewill beings.

Self destruction is possible for freewill creatures. Quite rare for celestials. A form of insanity really. This will take some time and UB quotes to explain. Please be patient. Thanks for the interest.

8)

118:7.1 (1300.5) The function of Creator will and creature will, in the grand universe, operates within the limits, and in accordance with the possibilities, established by the Master Architects. This foreordination of these maximum limits does not, however, in the least abridge the sovereignty of creature will within these boundaries. Neither does ultimate foreknowledge—full allowance for all finite choice—constitute an abrogation of finite volition. A mature and farseeing human being might be able to forecast the decision of some younger associate most accurately, but this foreknowledge takes nothing away from the freedom and genuineness of the decision itself. The Gods have wisely limited the range of the action of immature will, but it is true will, nonetheless, within these defined limits.

118:7.2 (1300.6) Even the supreme correlation of all past, present, and future choice does not invalidate the authenticity of such choosings. It rather indicates the foreordained trend of the cosmos and suggests foreknowledge of those volitional beings who may, or may not, elect to become contributory parts of the experiential actualization of all reality.

118:7.3 (1300.7) Error in finite choosing is time bound and time limited. It can exist only in time and within the evolving presence of the Supreme Being. Such mistaken choosing is time possible and indicates (besides the incompleteness of the Supreme) that certain range of choice with which immature creatures must be endowed in order to enjoy universe progression by making freewill contact with reality.

118:7.4 (1301.1) Sin in time-conditioned space clearly proves the temporal liberty—even license—of the finite will. Sin depicts immaturity dazzled by the freedom of the relatively sovereign will of personality while failing to perceive the supreme obligations and duties of cosmic citizenship.

118:7.5 (1301.2) Iniquity in the finite domains reveals the transient reality of all God-unidentified selfhood. Only as a creature becomes God identified, does he become truly real in the universes. Finite personality is not self-created, but in the superuniverse arena of choice it does self-determine destiny.

118:7.6 (1301.3) The bestowal of life renders material-energy systems capable of self-perpetuation, self-propagation, and self-adaptation. The bestowal of personality imparts to living organisms the further prerogatives of self-determination, self-evolution, and self-identification with a fusion spirit of Deity.

118:7.7 (1301.4) Subpersonal living things indicate mind activating energy-matter, first as physical controllers, and then as adjutant mind-spirits. Personality endowment comes from the Father and imparts unique prerogatives of choice to the living system. But if personality has the prerogative of exercising volitional choice of reality identification, and if this is a true and free choice, then must evolving personality also have the possible choice of becoming self-confusing, self-disrupting, and self-destroying. The possibility of cosmic self-destruction cannot be avoided if the evolving personality is to be truly free in the exercise of finite will.

118:7.8 (1301.5) Therefore is there increased safety in narrowing the limits of personality choice throughout the lower levels of existence. Choice becomes increasingly liberated as the universes are ascended; choice eventually approximates divine freedom when the ascending personality achieves divinity of status, supremacy of consecration to the purposes of the universe, completion of cosmic-wisdom attainment, and finality of creature identification with the will and the way of God.


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The nature of the conflict was competing loyalties and the related reality response and truth discernment of all those local celestials and ascended mortals exposed to Lucifer's declarations. The Manifesto was an attempt to declare False Liberty and betray the loyalty of all who served under Lucifer's leadership assignment by self assertion and self importance.

Those in leadership over and above Lucifer allowed the beings who received these false declarations to exercise their own freewill and self determination and truth evaluation and discernment without interference or any commands of obedience. The war was one of words, ideas, ideals, loyalties, and not physical violence or mass destruction.

In very important ways the war was actually a war within the mind of each affected being. A war of loyalties can be a very real and a very dangerous struggle. Our lives as mortals born with a dual nature experiences such conflict from a very early age between self interest and altruistic generosity. But all loyalty conflicts create confusion and uncertainty and doubt and the opportunity for error. Truly, every affected being was a victim of Lucifer and his coconspirators (who were few in number but great in power and all of whom enjoyed great loyalty by many, many beings under their leadership...and this leadership had lasted for a long, long time in full confidence and without any prior or similar issues....this was sudden and new and unfamiliar and dramatic). The rebellion was only a rebellion really for the leadership. It was an error of judgement for those who followed them by duty and long standing loyalty. Most, perhaps all, of those of divided loyalties came to realization and repentance and discernment of truth and their loyalties were redirected, by their own freewill and self determination, to those who were never swayed nor deceived by Lucifer's lies and declarations of self assertion and false liberty.

Remember that false liberty is loyalty to oneself and self interest while true liberty is a loyalty and devotion to that which is greater than self! Most all the victims of Lucifer's folly were because they remained loyal to their leadership and their duty but, over time, they came to redirect their loyalties to a higher ideal and duty and repudiate their own lack of wisdom and discernment in following the rebel leaders. They were deceived and misled.
Still....those who remained loyal to Christ Michael and to God demonstrated far greater wisdom and maturity and trustworthiness and judgement. Those who face such difficult choices and confusions and still choose the higher duty and faithfulness to the ideals of reality are a great blessing to ALL of reality. Such rebellion tested beings are a very special form of universal immunization and experiential wisdom which benefits the totality of creation forevermore! Many such faithful and loyal children were mortal born ascenders, some even still on this world having not yet experienced the personal resurrection. Such faith children are cherished on Paradise!!

3:5.12 (51.11) 7. Is loyalty—devotion to highest duty—desirable? Then must man carry on amid the possibilities of betrayal and desertion. The valor of devotion to duty consists in the implied danger of default.

39:4.11 (435.4) What is loyalty? It is the fruit of an intelligent appreciation of universe brotherhood; one could not take so much and give nothing. As you ascend the personality scale, first you learn to be loyal, then to love, then to be filial, and then may you be free; but not until you are a finaliter, not until you have attained perfection of loyalty, can you self-realize finality of liberty.

Me here: There were so many examples of steadfastness and loyalty during the rebellion within the System, on other worlds, and here on Urantia too! Two favorite heroes of many students of the UB are Van and Amadon!!

67:3.6 (756.7) Throughout the seven crucial years of the Caligastia rebellion, Van was wholly devoted to the work of ministry to his loyal army of men, midwayers, and angels. The spiritual insight and moral steadfastness which enabled Van to maintain such an unshakable attitude of loyalty to the universe government was the product of clear thinking, wise reasoning, logical judgment, sincere motivation, unselfish purpose, intelligent loyalty, experiential memory, disciplined character, and the unquestioning dedication of his personality to the doing of the will of the Father in Paradise.

67:3.7 (756.8) This seven years of waiting was a time of heart searching and soul discipline. Such crises in the affairs of a universe demonstrate the tremendous influence of mind as a factor in spiritual choosing. Education, training, and experience are factors in most of the vital decisions of all evolutionary moral creatures. But it is entirely possible for the indwelling spirit to make direct contact with the decision-determining powers of the human personality so as to empower the fully consecrated will of the creature to perform amazing acts of loyal devotion to the will and the way of the Father in Paradise. And this is just what occurred in the experience of Amadon, the modified human associate of Van.

67:3.8 (757.1) Amadon is the outstanding human hero of the Lucifer rebellion. This male descendant of Andon and Fonta was one of the one hundred who contributed life plasm to the Prince’s staff, and ever since that event he had been attached to Van as his associate and human assistant. Amadon elected to stand with his chief throughout the long and trying struggle. And it was an inspiring sight to behold this child of the evolutionary races standing unmoved by the sophistries of Daligastia while throughout the seven-year struggle he and his loyal associates resisted with unyielding fortitude all of the deceptive teachings of the brilliant Caligastia.

67:3.9 (757.2) Caligastia, with a maximum of intelligence and a vast experience in universe affairs, went astray—embraced sin. Amadon, with a minimum of intelligence and utterly devoid of universe experience, remained steadfast in the service of the universe and in loyalty to his associate. Van utilized both mind and spirit in a magnificent and effective combination of intellectual determination and spiritual insight, thereby achieving an experiential level of personality realization of the highest attainable order. Mind and spirit, when fully united, are potential for the creation of superhuman values, even morontia realities.

67:3.10 (757.3) There is no end to the recital of the stirring events of these tragic days. But at last the final decision of the last personality was made, and then, but only then, did a Most High of Edentia arrive with the emergency Melchizedeks to seize authority on Urantia. The Caligastia panoramic reign-records on Jerusem were obliterated, and the probationary era of planetary rehabilitation was inaugurated.

8. The Human Hero of the Rebellion

67:8.1 (761.8) The Lucifer rebellion was withstood by many courageous beings on the various worlds of Satania; but the records of Salvington portray Amadon as the outstanding character of the entire system in his glorious rejection of the flood tides of sedition and in his unswerving devotion to Van—they stood together unmoved in their loyalty to the supremacy of the invisible Father and his Son Michael.

67:8.2 (762.1) At the time of these momentous transactions I was stationed on Edentia, and I am still conscious of the exhilaration I experienced as I perused the Salvington broadcasts which told from day to day of the unbelievable steadfastness, the transcendent devotion, and the exquisite loyalty of this onetime semisavage springing from the experimental and original stock of the Andonic race.

67:8.3 (762.2) From Edentia up through Salvington and even on to Uversa, for seven long years the first inquiry of all subordinate celestial life regarding the Satania rebellion, ever and always, was: “What of Amadon of Urantia, does he still stand unmoved?”

67:8.4 (762.3) If the Lucifer rebellion has handicapped the local system and its fallen worlds, if the loss of this Son and his misled associates has temporarily hampered the progress of the constellation of Norlatiadek, then weigh the effect of the far-flung presentation of the inspiring performance of this one child of nature and his determined band of 143 comrades in standing steadfast for the higher concepts of universe management and administration in the face of such tremendous and adverse pressure exerted by his disloyal superiors. And let me assure you, this has already done more good in the universe of Nebadon and the superuniverse of Orvonton than can ever be outweighed by the sum total of all the evil and sorrow of the Lucifer rebellion.

67:8.5 (762.4) And all this is a beautifully touching and superbly magnificent illumination of the wisdom of the Father’s universal plan for mobilizing the Corps of Mortal Finality on Paradise and for recruiting this vast group of mysterious servants of the future largely from the common clay of the mortals of ascending progression—just such mortals as the impregnable Amadon.

8) Bradly aka fanofVan


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Henry asks: "What exactly is "Life Eternal"???"

I'm not sure what you're asking here Henry. Apologies if my answer is off target. I hope to ascertain and appreciate the intent of the query; I certainly hear the sincerity within the question.

We are taught that only God is without beginning. But that and those created by God, all of whom and which do have a beginning, also have eternal existence ahead. Some, like us, only potentially. Some beings are created in Divine perfection and eternal by nature. Some beings are created perfect. Those created or born in time must perfect by evolutionary experiential progress. For those beings, the experience of eternity is different than for those created in perfection.

But even material born mortals like us can and do achieve eternal life. Unlike other religious beliefs and traditions, the UB teaches that we humans/mortals originate here at our birth - there is no pre-existence or predestination or reincarnation. We are born connected to Deity and we are born with a dual nature - the Spirit nature and the material nature. Both are quite real. But the material life is temporal. Only the Spirit nature has eternal potential. Our soul is born by our first true moral choice as children (usually about age 6) and that soul grows by those choices and decisions which have moral and spiritual value.

Our soul carries every experience and expression of truth, beauty, goodness, and love forward into eternity. It is our soul that survives the material death of our temporal and physical bodies. That being is us. And by that resurrection experience, we may live forever - "eternal life" - an endless adventure of experiential perfecting over eons of time throughout the endless reality of the universe of universes.

The Urantia Book is the introductory story of these places and beings and adventures to come.

Consider reading Paper 48 for an introduction of the 'heavenly abode' spoken of by our ancestors. This is the place of our soul's resurrection and the next level of the eternal life and adventure for us tadpoles from time!

Paper 48

The Morontia Life

48:0.1 (541.1) THE Gods cannot—at least they do not—transform a creature of gross animal nature into a perfected spirit by some mysterious act of creative magic. When the Creators desire to produce perfect beings, they do so by direct and original creation, but they never undertake to convert animal-origin and material creatures into beings of perfection in a single step.

48:0.2 (541.2) The morontia life, extending as it does over the various stages of the local universe career, is the only possible approach whereby material mortals could attain the threshold of the spirit world. What magic could death, the natural dissolution of the material body, hold that such a simple step should instantly transform the mortal and material mind into an immortal and perfected spirit? Such beliefs are but ignorant superstitions and pleasing fables.

48:6.2 (551.7) You should understand that the morontia life of an ascending mortal is really initiated on the inhabited worlds at the conception of the soul, at that moment when the creature mind of moral status is indwelt by the spirit Adjuster. And from that moment on, the mortal soul has potential capacity for supermortal function, even for recognition on the higher levels of the morontia spheres of the local universe.

48:8.1 (557.16) From the time of graduation from the mansion worlds to the attainment of spirit status in the superuniverse career, ascending mortals are denominated morontia progressors. Your passage through this wonderful borderland life will be an unforgettable experience, a charming memory. It is the evolutionary portal to spirit life and the eventual attainment of creature perfection by which ascenders achieve the goal of time—the finding of God on Paradise.

48:8.2 (557.17) There is a definite and divine purpose in all this morontia and subsequent spirit scheme of mortal progression, this elaborate universe training school for ascending creatures. It is the design of the Creators to afford the creatures of time a graduated opportunity to master the details of the operation and administration of the grand universe, and this long course of training is best carried forward by having the surviving mortal climb up gradually and by actual participation in every step of the ascent.

48:8.3 (558.1) The mortal-survival plan has a practical and serviceable objective; you are not the recipients of all this divine labor and painstaking training only that you may survive just to enjoy endless bliss and eternal ease. There is a goal of transcendent service concealed beyond the horizon of the present universe age. If the Gods designed merely to take you on one long and eternal joy excursion, they certainly would not so largely turn the whole universe into one vast and intricate practical training school, requisition a substantial part of the celestial creation as teachers and instructors, and then spend ages upon ages piloting you, one by one, through this gigantic universe school of experiential training. The furtherance of the scheme of mortal progression seems to be one of the chief businesses of the present organized universe, and the majority of innumerable orders of created intelligences are either directly or indirectly engaged in advancing some phase of this progressive perfection plan.

48:8.4 (558.2) In traversing the ascending scale of living existence from mortal man to the Deity embrace, you actually live the very life of every possible phase and stage of perfected creature existence within the limits of the present universe age. From mortal man to Paradise finaliter embraces all that now can be—encompasses everything presently possible to the living orders of intelligent, perfected finite creature beings. If the future destiny of the Paradise finaliters is service in new universes now in the making, it is assured that in this new and future creation there will be no created orders of experiential beings whose lives will be wholly different from those which mortal finaliters have lived on some world as a part of their ascending training, as one of the stages of their agelong progress from animal to angel and from angel to spirit and from spirit to God.

8)

"Eternal Life":

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

Enjoy!!


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By the way Henry.... you may not know this... the Urantia Book is filled with quotes from other sources, usually marked by quote marks but without footnotes or attribution. Over 1000 of humanity's highest concepts are included in the UB and over 2000 quotes from human sources. The story of truth and history told in the UB includes a large quantity of human thought and achievement in truth discernment and experiential wisdom.

As an example:

53:5.6 (606.2) “There was war in heaven; Michael’s commander and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer, Satan, and the apostate princes); and the dragon and his rebellious angels fought but prevailed not.” This “war in heaven” was not a physical battle as such a conflict might be conceived on Urantia. In the early days of the struggle Lucifer held forth continuously in the planetary amphitheater. Gabriel conducted an unceasing exposure of the rebel sophistries from his headquarters taken up near at hand. The various personalities present on the sphere who were in doubt as to their attitude would journey back and forth between these discussions until they arrived at a final decision.

Me here: The opening statement in quotation marks above is NOT original to the UB but is an unattributed direct quote from a human source. Some sources are modern (last 3-5 centuries) and some are far older and some are from records lost in antiquity to disaster or war, etc. But any words found in the UB within quotation marks are not the words of the author(s) but are included for their relevance and illuminating qualities. Don't be surprised if you recognize some quotes from other sources... some scientific, some religious texts, some philosophy, etc.

Just thought you should know.... if you didn't already! :idea: :D

8)


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Thank you :)


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OK, so i dont feel like opening up a whole new thread for this, but i have several more questions.

Where does God/Creator reside? Somewhere in the 7 heavens??? Or the Isle of Paradise???

What about 5th dimensional beings? are they living within the Isle of Paradise??? I studied a little bit of THeosophy and ive been told that Jesus Christ and other ascended masters are vibrating at a 5th dimensional frequency. Or also called "5th Dimension".


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Paper 11

The Eternal Isle of Paradise

11:0.1 (118.1) PARADISE is the eternal center of the universe of universes and the abiding place of the Universal Father, the Eternal Son, the Infinite Spirit, and their divine co-ordinates and associates. This central Isle is the most gigantic organized body of cosmic reality in all the master universe. Paradise is a material sphere as well as a spiritual abode. All of the intelligent creation of the Universal Father is domiciled on material abodes; hence must the absolute controlling center also be material, literal. And again it should be reiterated that spirit things and spiritual beings are real.

11:0.2 (118.2) The material beauty of Paradise consists in the magnificence of its physical perfection; the grandeur of the Isle of God is exhibited in the superb intellectual accomplishments and mind development of its inhabitants; the glory of the central Isle is shown forth in the infinite endowment of divine spirit personality—the light of life. But the depths of the spiritual beauty and the wonders of this magnificent ensemble are utterly beyond the comprehension of the finite mind of material creatures. The glory and spiritual splendor of the divine abode are impossible of mortal comprehension. And Paradise is from eternity; there are neither records nor traditions respecting the origin of this nuclear Isle of Light and Life.

1. The Divine Residence

11:1.1 (118.3) Paradise serves many purposes in the administration of the universal realms, but to creature beings it exists primarily as the dwelling place of Deity. The personal presence of the Universal Father is resident at the very center of the upper surface of this well-nigh circular, but not spherical, abode of the Deities. This Paradise presence of the Universal Father is immediately surrounded by the personal presence of the Eternal Son, while they are both invested by the unspeakable glory of the Infinite Spirit.

11:1.2 (118.4) God dwells, has dwelt, and everlastingly will dwell in this same central and eternal abode. We have always found him there and always will. The Universal Father is cosmically focalized, spiritually personalized, and geographically resident at this center of the universe of universes.

11:1.3 (118.5) We all know the direct course to pursue to find the Universal Father. You are not able to comprehend much about the divine residence because of its remoteness from you and the immensity of the intervening space, but those who are able to comprehend the meaning of these enormous distances know God’s location and residence just as certainly and literally as you know the location of New York, London, Rome, or Singapore, cities definitely and geographically located on Urantia. If you were an intelligent navigator, equipped with ship, maps, and compass, you could readily find these cities. Likewise, if you had the time and means of passage, were spiritually qualified, and had the necessary guidance, you could be piloted through universe upon universe and from circuit to circuit, ever journeying inward through the starry realms, until at last you would stand before the central shining of the spiritual glory of the Universal Father. Provided with all the necessities for the journey, it is just as possible to find the personal presence of God at the center of all things as to find distant cities on your own planet. That you have not visited these places in no way disproves their reality or actual existence. That so few of the universe creatures have found God on Paradise in no way disproves either the reality of his existence or the actuality of his spiritual person at the center of all things.

11:1.4 (119.1) The Father is always to be found at this central location. Did he move, universal pandemonium would be precipitated, for there converge in him at this residential center the universal lines of gravity from the ends of creation. Whether we trace the personality circuit back through the universes or follow the ascending personalities as they journey inward to the Father; whether we trace the lines of material gravity to nether Paradise or follow the insurging cycles of cosmic force; whether we trace the lines of spiritual gravity to the Eternal Son or follow the inward processional of the Paradise Sons of God; whether we trace out the mind circuits or follow the trillions upon trillions of celestial beings who spring from the Infinite Spirit—by any of these observations or by all of them we are led directly back to the Father’s presence, to his central abode. Here is God personally, literally, and actually present. And from his infinite being there flow the flood-streams of life, energy, and personality to all universes.

8)

11:9.1 (126.6) Paradise is unique in that it is the realm of primal origin and the final goal of destiny for all spirit personalities. Although it is true that not all of the lower spirit beings of the local universes are immediately destined to Paradise, Paradise still remains the goal of desire for all supermaterial personalities.

11:9.2 (126.7) Paradise is the geographic center of infinity; it is not a part of universal creation, not even a real part of the eternal Havona universe. We commonly refer to the central Isle as belonging to the divine universe, but it really does not. Paradise is an eternal and exclusive existence.

11:9.3 (127.1) In the eternity of the past, when the Universal Father gave infinite personality expression of his spirit self in the being of the Eternal Son, simultaneously he revealed the infinity potential of his nonpersonal self as Paradise. Nonpersonal and nonspiritual Paradise appears to have been the inevitable repercussion to the Father’s will and act which eternalized the Original Son. Thus did the Father project reality in two actual phases—the personal and the nonpersonal, the spiritual and the nonspiritual. The tension between them, in the face of will to action by the Father and the Son, gave existence to the Conjoint Actor and the central universe of material worlds and spiritual beings.

11:9.4 (127.2) When reality is differentiated into the personal and the nonpersonal (Eternal Son and Paradise), it is hardly proper to call that which is nonpersonal “Deity” unless somehow qualified. The energy and material repercussions of the acts of Deity could hardly be called Deity. Deity may cause much that is not Deity, and Paradise is not Deity; neither is it conscious as mortal man could ever possibly understand such a term.

11:9.5 (127.3) Paradise is not ancestral to any being or living entity; it is not a creator. Personality and mind-spirit relationships are transmissible, but pattern is not. Patterns are never reflections; they are duplications—reproductions. Paradise is the absolute of patterns; Havona is an exhibit of these potentials in actuality.

11:9.6 (127.4) God’s residence is central and eternal, glorious and ideal. His home is the beauteous pattern for all universe headquarters worlds; and the central universe of his immediate indwelling is the pattern for all universes in their ideals, organization, and ultimate destiny.

11:9.7 (127.5) Paradise is the universal headquarters of all personality activities and the source-center of all force-space and energy manifestations. Everything which has been, now is, or is yet to be, has come, now comes, or will come forth from this central abiding place of the eternal Gods. Paradise is the center of all creation, the source of all energies, and the place of primal origin of all personalities.

11:9.8 (127.6) After all, to mortals the most important thing about eternal Paradise is the fact that this perfect abode of the Universal Father is the real and far-distant destiny of the immortal souls of the mortal and material sons of God, the ascending creatures of the evolutionary worlds of time and space. Every God-knowing mortal who has espoused the career of doing the Father’s will has already embarked upon the long, long Paradise trail of divinity pursuit and perfection attainment. And when such an animal-origin being does stand, as countless numbers now do, before the Gods on Paradise, having ascended from the lowly spheres of space, such an achievement represents the reality of a spiritual transformation bordering on the limits of supremacy.

https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/pape ... f-paradise


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henrywashere wrote:
OK, so i dont feel like opening up a whole new thread for this, but i have several more questions.

Where does God/Creator reside? Somewhere in the 7 heavens??? Or the Isle of Paradise???

What about 5th dimensional beings? are they living within the Isle of Paradise??? I studied a little bit of THeosophy and ive been told that Jesus Christ and other ascended masters are vibrating at a 5th dimensional frequency. Or also called "5th Dimension".


The founders and many students of theosophy practice(d) various and certain types of psuedo-buddhism. The Urantia Book has much to say about ancient and modern Buddhism and Taoism which might be of interest to you. Do you read the Tao and know of Lao Tse? The "5th Dimension" describes, in a general way, what the UB calls the morontial realms and levels of universe realities that include the angels and human souls and the heavenly abode where mortals awaken and continue our pilgrim's progress of experiential wisdom on the path to Paradise.

Theosophy seeks the origins ans original ancient truths and teachings about universe realities and humanity's connection to Diety here on our world. That is exactly the story told in Part III of the Papers... for those who may wish to discover that evolutionary adventure. Especially Papers 92-98:

https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/pape ... f-religion

Paradise itself and Deity and those Paradise Beings created by Deity in perfection are spirit beings and abide in a different and higher state/level/dimension of reality.

0:5.12 (9.2) Morontia is a term designating a vast level intervening between the material and the spiritual. It may designate personal or impersonal realities, living or nonliving energies. The warp of morontia is spiritual; its woof is physical.

16:4.6 (189.7) Much of the reality of the spiritual worlds is of the morontia order, a phase of universe reality wholly unknown on Urantia. The goal of personality existence is spiritual, but the morontia creations always intervene, bridging the gulf between the material realms of mortal origin and the superuniverse spheres of advancing spiritual status. It is in this realm that the Master Spirits make their great contribution to the plan of man’s Paradise ascension.

"Lao Tse":

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

"Taoism":

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

"Buddha":

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

"Buddhism":

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

Also... don't miss reading Paper 131 The World's Religions:


https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-st ... m=%22World

Bradly 8)


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53:5.6 (606.2) “There was war in heaven; Michael’s commander and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer, Satan, and the apostate princes); and the dragon and his rebellious angels fought but prevailed not.” This “war in heaven” was not a physical battle as such a conflict might be conceived on Urantia. In the early days of the struggle Lucifer held forth continuously in the planetary amphitheater. Gabriel conducted an unceasing exposure of the rebel sophistries from his headquarters taken up near at hand. The various personalities present on the sphere who were in doubt as to their attitude would journey back and forth between these discussions until they arrived at a final decision.

Our human counterpart to this is the "war" going on in the U.S. Congress today. Lives have been lost, but this is primarily a spiritual battle, with critical values and goals at stake. I believe this is a repercussion of the Lucifer rebellion; an inheritance we must disavowal and grow beyond.


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Agreed. However, the Revelation also reminds us that Lucifer did not invent self importance and false liberty. It is not patriotic or constitutional or libertarian to believe my liberty is more important than your liberty. False liberty is the root of most evil today... not the rebellion... in my opinion. The Golden Rule solves much that is wrong today.

8)

1. True and False Liberty

54:1.1 (613.3) Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty.

54:1.2 (613.4) True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress. False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space. Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity.

54:1.3 (613.5) Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled. True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity, and divine obligations.

54:1.4 (613.6) Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships.

54:1.5 (613.7) Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage.

54:1.6 (614.1) True liberty is the associate of genuine self-respect; false liberty is the consort of self-admiration. True liberty is the fruit of self-control; false liberty, the assumption of self-assertion. Self-control leads to altruistic service; self-admiration tends towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual as is willing to sacrifice righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust power over his fellow beings.

54:1.7 (614.2) Even wisdom is divine and safe only when it is cosmic in scope and spiritual in motivation.

54:1.8 (614.3) There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.

54:1.9 (614.4) How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects.


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