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 Post subject: Re: Experiential Wisdom
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gizmo wrote:
Here's how I think about the perfection of Creator Sons, or of other celestial beings: they are perfectly capable of doing the service they were created for, but no being but the Universal Father is perfect in all things.


That's right. The Creator Sons are perfect personalities but they do not encompass all the unqualified potentials which are part of the First Source and Center as explained here:

1:5.6 The natures of the Paradise Creator Sons do not encompass all the unqualified potentials of the universal absoluteness of the infinite nature of the First Great Source and Center, but the Universal Father is in every way divinely present in the Creator Sons. The Father and his Sons are one. These Paradise Sons of the order of Michael are perfect personalities, even the pattern for all local universe personality from that of the Bright and Morning Star down to the lowest human creature of progressing animal evolution.

gizmo wrote:
They need experience, they need to learn new things, and grew in the process.


Creator Sons don't need experience, they are perfect without it, but their purpose is to bring the Father to those personalities who are evolving from the depths of experience in this current universe age. The Father cannot leave Paradise; if he left, Paradise would cease to be, so he sends his perfect existential Sons to the end that Existential Deity can associate and participate with the evolution of Experiential Deity, i.e., the Supreme.

gizmo wrote:
And they can err. Lucifer was not a Creator Son, a Son nonetheless, but willful and disbelieving in the Universal Father. What an amazing thing!


Paradise Creator Sons cannot err. They are perfect. They and the Father are ONE.

(228:4) 20:5.7 Though the possibility of disaster always attends these Paradise Sons during their bestowal incarnations, I have yet to see the record of the failure or default of either a Magisterial or a Creator Son on a mission of bestowal. Both are of origin too close to absolute perfection to fail. They indeed assume the risk, really become like the mortal creatures of flesh and blood and thereby gain the unique creature experience, but within the range of my observation they always succeed. They never fail to achieve the goal of the bestowal mission. The story of their bestowal and planetary service throughout Nebadon constitutes the most noble and fascinating chapter in the history of your local universe.


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 Post subject: Re: Experiential Wisdom
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Evolution can be seen experiencially, "as an eventuation", even though the process of Life seems impossibly elongated. If Life is considered as a Being, and therefore All Forms of Life have some Part of that Being. Then, as the Life Carrier said, the Emergence of Life from (1) its inherency of All Life as existing within the Holy Spirit, (2) the relationship to the mechanical structures of every eventuating life-vehicle & its adaptations to the planetary chemistry, (3) the relationship between Life existing within these structures, its relationship to spirit-mind ministrations.

The Life that was bestowed on Urantia is ministered by Edentia and Salvington, primarily. The Origination of Urantian Life is mysterious but when the Eventuation of that Life Mechanism eventuates Human Life, finds a new relationship with the One who Originated Life. Life has an unbroken Beingness, though living mechanisms breathe and then expire into the clay, each and every experience of Life as a creature has a relationship to the Holy Spirit. The realisation of Life within the eventuation of a living mechanism, is through a relationship of Urantia's inherent Life to Salvington's inherent Life.

Human Life emerged during an era where the alpha strain, the Lemurs, was ministered primarily through Jerusem; humans as individuated sentient Beings have a much stronger relationship to Edentia and Salvington. Since then, our lifeforms have, through many different linniages, are able to experiencially "shed" the dependence to the theoretical life-mechanism of Satania, able to realise every creature's individual role as personalities.

Although the generations that succeeded between the first living cells of Urantia and man himself seems innumerable, but nevertheless has this Life emerged, as an eventuation of experiences, both through every lifetime experience, and through generational leaps thanks to the services of the Life Carriers, as it was in the Days of the Lemurites. Today, each of us realises how we are to become masters of an individual destiny, capable of carrying instructions known currently only by the Adjuster of every mortal's indwelling. So, too, the inherency of our lives is related to all the plants that once grew in Urantia, and every animal that ever roamed its shores, in the way that the Universal Father experiences life in the grand universe, as every living thing. All life, whether single-celled, plant, animal, parasite, or man, has this aspect, of being an eventuation of Life somehow, not only Urantia's life, but as a Being in the Life of the Universal Father. But the original strains of Life, that were once planted in Urantia by the Holy Spirit, have acquired this sevenfold realisation, therefor is seen as the emergence of the sevenfold relationship of Urantian Life to the Divine Minister of Salvington, and how this occurred in Urantia's History.

Therefore, we must learn to experience the sevenfold relationship to the Divine Minister, but also to preserve the original living strains and lifepatterns of Urantian Society; in the same way that the Divine Minister administers to the amoeba, I have intuition. In the same way that the Divine Minister administers to the sturgeon, I have understanding. In the same manner that the Divine Minister invited the lungfish onto land, I have courage. In a similar way as I know that the frog is my ancestor, and that I share a transient experience in the likeness of the flesh, I have received knowledge. So, how is the life that I have, as a transient Being, within Urantia's own transient existence, as a separate family than the frog? I know that the frog can, perhaps, only has the capacity to adapt through the first four adjutant mind spirits' ministrations; man is capable, as an eventuational Being, of receiving ministrations from seven types of spiritenergy from Salvington. The lifecycles of every Being on worlds whereon righteousness is the custom, has a shared cycles of adaptive experience: a birth (a period of mitotic usurption), a phase of intuition, a phase of understanding, and most animals have these shared experiences within their lifecycles. We, as humans share the phase of counsel with the Lemurites, as emergent life cycles, and then there is the age of choice, for Jesus, the second time he went to Jerusalem with Mary & Joseph.

As I have said, there are families or persons whom never accorded the right to choose to members of their individual household, and certainly those who have yet to express a bona fide choice over the course of their lifetimes. For Adam and Eve, their own choice was made at the very end of their life, in the way they taught their family that their bodies were to be buried, their corpses, next to where Abel had been lain.

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 Post subject: Re: Experiential Wisdom
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As I understand it, eventuation and evolution are completely different from one another. Life on the material and evolutionary worlds is evolutionary and not the result of eventuation. So evolution cannot be "seen experientially as an eventuation"...an oxymoron. Neither are the life forms born on such worlds eventuated. Adaptations are, by definition, evolutionary.

Certainly humans do not eventuate. Not as a species or as individuals. Not biologically and not spiritually.

Please provide text support about Jerusem and the lemurs. Actually all life forms on Urantia were evolved, ministered to, and managed progressively and successfully on planet by the life carriers and the adjutants. Not on Jerusem. You are still making stuff up. Who the heck are the Lemurites???!!! What a crock. Hilarious but still malarky.

By fusion with the TA/God fragment, and association with the Supreme, mortal ascenders may eventually participate in the eventuation of ultimacy but that's far into the future...as I understand.

101:6.2 (1111.6) Throughout all religious experience, from its earliest inception on the material level up to the time of the attainment of full spirit status, the Adjuster is the secret of the personal realization of the reality of the existence of the Supreme; and this same Adjuster also holds the secrets of your faith in the transcendental attainment of the Ultimate. The experiential personality of evolving man, united to the Adjuster essence of the existential God, constitutes the potential completion of supreme existence and is inherently the basis for the superfinite eventuation of transcendental personality.

Stephen - your posts are nonsensical contradictions of the UB. What a load of fictional mumbo jumbo. And what a disservice to the community. More misrepresentations. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Experiential Wisdom
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Okay...back to the topic....Experiential Wisdom.

Quick reminder and disclosure: all words written by me and any other student which are not direct quotes of the text are merely opinions and understandings of the teachings. Every student is welcome to add their voices here and each student is responsible to read, study, and research the contents of the Papers for their own understanding and appreciation and applications. Thank you.

I appreciate Kat's help in considering how Creator Sons and the Supreme are both experiential and perfect prior to experience. There are differences of course. The Supreme is Deity and the Creator Sons are of Deity origin and nature. So I wonder then if the other Paradise Sons, Avonals and Daynals, share this perfection with the Creator Sons?

A distinction I think between perfecting experiential beings in time and perfect existential beings are that perfect existential beings do not sin or commit errors - they are without evil or sin. So perfect experiential beings benefit from experience but are also without evil/error or sin in their freewill choices and experiences in time. We also know that the only perfecting creature experiences which flow to the Supreme are those with eternal value and which do not contain and are not a result of evil, sin, or iniquity. There is a universal filtration system in the experiences in time and space that prevents any pollutants or distortions or effects from evil, sin, and iniquity from eternity and perfection.

All such effects and repercussions of evil and sin are localized and temporal!! So all experiential wisdom ultimately rises upward and inward, through this filtration mechanism or purification process, in a manner that results only in pure love, truth, beauty, and goodness experiences and expressions to survive time and to rise and return to its source within Paradise and the First Source and Center from whom it originated. All love, truth, beauty, and goodness is pure and without any error, sin, or iniquity as it is bestowed to the creatures of time and space. And likewise does all expressions of experiential wisdom return to its origin and source likewise purified from all distortions or additives of the less than perfect in the universes of time!!

There is still much to consider about how experiential wisdom and perfect/Divine wisdom intersect and the effects from such intersection now and in the distant future related to the Supreme and the Ultimate. And then there is much more to learn about the experiential wisdom of the celestials, including the descending Sons and the ascending Sons and the Seraphim and Material Sons and Daughters and Midwayers and all others. Each being and each level of being has a nearness to and distance from perfection and Divinity...mortals being the least perfect and most distant of those who enjoy the eternal adventure and experiential wisdom and the perfecting experience in time.

Each level of being has a different inherent wisdom upon their creation and has a different experiential potential to gain wisdom in time. In between those beings created in Paradise (see Paper 30) and those created in the Local Universes by the Creator Son and/or Local Universe Mother Spirit (see Papers 35-38) there are those beings whose abode is the Superuniverse (see Papers 26-28)! So much wisdom - Divinely endowed and experiential - from the lowest to the highest of all beings in time and from eternity's endless past.

Returning now to the mortal's and mortal ascender's experiential wisdom, I also wonder how much different is our wisdom once we experience fusion with the existential God fragment? We are told the new being is experiential and we do not become gods or perfect or Divine by the act of fusion. But what do we gain related to wisdom when we fuse?

The importance of wisdom is illustrated by the number of times the word appears in the text. It's value is apparent from Paradise down through every level of reality. It's pursuit and acquisition is of profound importance in the universes of time and space!!

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

Thanks! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Experiential Wisdom
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Bradly - just wanted to say - I know you have posted the UB verses - but yes - wisdom and Spirituality must be connected - or even call it Spiritual Wisdom - as we journey in this life - both should come together - in my case a little slow - but they should and must come together - this lifetime or in the future after the death of the body on earth... - but I don;t want to jump in here too far as reading the posts and sounds like some fine lines of UB details - but as mortals as we move onwards and upwards - wisdom and spirit must meet and join - and yes there are perfect beings out there already and I guess they also experience things - but on a higher consciousness level or higher levels of being - and some have backslid as well it seems - but striving to attain good and perfection is part of the plan for all anyway - even if some have taken detours or have strayed from the narrow path


fanofVan wrote:
Obviously, according to the Papers, wisdom and spirituality and religious experience are inherently connected and progress in near lockstep.

Eventually, I wonder if there is even any difference in wisdom and spirituality.

Early in the ascender's career and education wisdom unifies and harmonizes the dual nature perception of reality. But as we are spiritized and gain objectivity what is the nature then of experiential wisdom?

Ultimately and eventually, what's the difference between Divine wisdom and experiential wisdom? When we achieve pure spirit insight, what then does wisdom become? Only a bridge to such certainty of understanding? Or something more?

Will experiential wisdom ever equal Divine and perfect wisdom? IMO, there will always be a difference even if I cannot now describe that difference. But I think experiential wisdom is desirable and functional and helpful to Deity which enjoys Divine wisdom.

101:5.12 (1111.2) Evolved religion rests wholly on faith. Revelation has the additional assurance of its expanded presentation of the truths of divinity and reality and the still more valuable testimony of the actual experience which accumulates in consequence of the practical working union of the faith of evolution and the truth of revelation. Such a working union of human faith and divine truth constitutes the possession of a character well on the road to the actual acquirement of a morontial personality.

101:5.13 (1111.3) Evolutionary religion provides only the assurance of faith and the confirmation of conscience; revelatory religion provides the assurance of faith plus the truth of a living experience in the realities of revelation. The third step in religion, or the third phase of the experience of religion, has to do with the morontia state, the firmer grasp of mota. Increasingly in the morontia progression the truths of revealed religion are expanded; more and more you will know the truth of supreme values, divine goodnesses, universal relationships, eternal realities, and ultimate destinies.

101:5.14 (1111.4) Increasingly throughout the morontia progression the assurance of truth replaces the assurance of faith. When you are finally mustered into the actual spirit world, then will the assurances of pure spirit insight operate in the place of faith and truth or, rather, in conjunction with, and superimposed upon, these former techniques of personality assurance.


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 Post subject: Re: Experiential Wisdom
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Well said shrimpythai/Steve!! Yes much to aspire to and lots yet to accomplish for us tadpoles!! Thankfully progress is measured by our sincerity and our hopes and ideals and aspirations and not by speed or distance.

We are provided the time we each may need to acquire the experiential wisdom and spiritual progress for fusion status and our finality attainment. The road to Paradise may be long but it becomes a wonderful journey of adventure and discovery for each pilgrim who sets aside fear and embraces truth, beauty, and goodness!!

Prior to fusion with our God Fragment, wisdom comes to us mortals by trial and error. All choices deliver repercussions ...the harvest of what is sown. But error delivers negative consequences. Good choices result in progress and fruits of the spirit. Error brings the opportunity to learn and improve our choices and our outcomes. Sufficient error results in suffering and affliction which is given to us, by the laws of sowing and reaping that which is sown, to help us discern the good choices from the bad choices and the better choices from the good choices, and eventually, the best choices from the better choices.

This is a progressive process whereby the Adjuster and the Guardian Angels guide our footsteps to those intersections of decision for the very purpose of learning to make wiser and wiser choices.

We are being formed and tempered like steel tempered by fire and water and between the hammer and the anvil. Wisdom does not come easily or quickly but only by repeating choices until our responses to situations and circumstances and relationship intersections become spirit directed and reflexive in nature.

Despite primitive superstitions that believe that God personally punishes us directly, in reality those choices which are selfish, self centered, and self important automatically result in consequences of frustration and disappointment and unhappiness and disillusionment and other forms of suffering - even if apparently awarded materially - still are there meaningful consequences to bear.


4:3.4 (58.2) God repents of nothing he has ever done, now does, or ever will do. He is all-wise as well as all-powerful. Man’s wisdom grows out of the trials and errors of human experience; God’s wisdom consists in the unqualified perfection of his infinite universe insight, and this divine foreknowledge effectively directs the creative free will.

9:1.8 (100.2) In addition to this supercontrol of energy and things physical, the Infinite Spirit is superbly endowed with those attributes of patience, mercy, and love which are so exquisitely revealed in his spiritual ministry. The Spirit is supremely competent to minister love and to overshadow justice with mercy. God the Spirit possesses all the supernal kindness and merciful affection of the Original and Eternal Son. The universe of your origin is being forged out between the anvil of justice and the hammer of suffering; but those who wield the hammer are the children of mercy, the spirit offspring of the Infinite Spirit.

48:7.14 (556.14) 12. The greatest affliction of the cosmos is never to have been afflicted. Mortals only learn wisdom by experiencing tribulation.

86:2.1 (951.3) Anxiety was a natural state of the savage mind. When men and women fall victims to excessive anxiety, they are simply reverting to the natural estate of their far-distant ancestors; and when anxiety becomes actually painful, it inhibits activity and unfailingly institutes evolutionary changes and biologic adaptations. Pain and suffering are essential to progressive evolution.

118:10.9 (1305.4) Some of the amazingly fortuitous conditions occasionally prevailing on the evolutionary worlds may be due to the gradually emerging presence of the Supreme, the foretasting of his future universe activities. Most of what a mortal would call providential is not; his judgment of such matters is very handicapped by lack of farsighted vision into the true meanings of the circumstances of life. Much of what a mortal would call good luck might really be bad luck; the smile of fortune that bestows unearned leisure and undeserved wealth may be the greatest of human afflictions; the apparent cruelty of a perverse fate that heaps tribulation upon some suffering mortal may in reality be the tempering fire that is transmuting the soft iron of immature personality into the tempered steel of real character.

148:5.3 (1661.5) “But, my son, you should know that the Father does not purposely afflict his children. Man brings down upon himself unnecessary affliction as a result of his persistent refusal to walk in the better ways of the divine will. Affliction is potential in evil, but much of it has been produced by sin and iniquity. Many unusual events have transpired on this world, and it is not strange that all thinking men should be perplexed by the scenes of suffering and affliction which they witness. But of one thing you may be sure: The Father does not send affliction as an arbitrary punishment for wrongdoing. The imperfections and handicaps of evil are inherent; the penalties of sin are inevitable; the destroying consequences of iniquity are inexorable. Man should not blame God for those afflictions which are the natural result of the life which he chooses to live; neither should man complain of those experiences which are a part of life as it is lived on this world. It is the Father’s will that mortal man should work persistently and consistently toward the betterment of his estate on earth. Intelligent application would enable man to overcome much of his earthly misery.

Maybe (Taoist story)

There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. 

"Maybe," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed.

"Maybe," replied the old man. The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "Maybe," answered the farmer.

The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "Maybe," said the farmer.

:idea: 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Experiential Wisdom
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fanofVan wrote:
So I wonder then if the other Paradise Sons, Avonals and Daynals, share this perfection with the Creator Sons?

A distinction I think between perfecting experiential beings in time and perfect existential beings are that perfect existential beings do not sin or commit errors - they are without evil or sin. So perfect experiential beings benefit from experience but are also without evil/error or sin in their freewill choices and experiences in time. We also know that the only perfecting creature experiences which flow to the Supreme are those with eternal value and which do not contain and are not a result of evil, sin, or iniquity. There is a universal filtration system in the experiences in time and space that prevents any pollutants or distortions or effects from evil, sin, and iniquity from eternity and perfection.



120:0.3 In the course of each of these preceding bestowals Michael not only acquired the finite experience of one group of his created beings, but he also acquired an essential experience in Paradise co-operation which would, in and of itself, further contribute to constituting him the sovereign of his self-made universe. At any moment throughout all past local universe time, Michael could have asserted personal sovereignty as a Creator Son and as a Creator Son could have ruled his universe after the manner of his own choosing. In such an event, Immanuel and the associated Paradise Sons would have taken leave of the universe. But Michael did not wish to rule Nebadon merely in his own isolated right, as a Creator Son. He desired to ascend through actual experience in co-operative subordination to the Paradise Trinity to that high place in universe status where he would become qualified to rule his universe and administer its affairs with that perfection of insight and wisdom of execution which will sometime be characteristic of the exalted rule of the Supreme Being. He aspired not to perfection of rule as a Creator Son but to supremacy of administration as the embodiment of the universe wisdom and the divine experience of the Supreme Being.


So, there is one thing fanofVan states, that existentially originated Beings "do not commit error", but I wish to clarify that although Jesus did not sin, that he experienced awareness, such as in the Gospels, during the forty days of Temptation, where, it has been told, Jesus weighted in his mind the possibilities of the universe, and decided then to live according to the will of the universal father. Yes, evil is an experience within human minds, however the capacity to act on evil is real even in the mind of Jesus. Yet, that awareness of the potentials to act, let me say 'wryly', to act awry, does not imply that an individual will act on the tendencies of the creature. And even should one account for his own sinful deed, that person might there and then develop moral restraint, self-discipline.

"Man is not sullied by that which enters into his mouth, but rather can man sully himself by what he has spoken from his own mouth."

Therefore, your assumption is probably correct, that Avonal Sons and Michael Sons have not sinned within the Universe of Uversa. However, this does not preclude the awareness of the potentials for man to act, which would have been seen as being in dischordance from man's own individual understanding of the Universal Father.

Aristotle has declared, that after a careful examination of all the facts, and let me say man must indeed account for all the potentials he has been given to act, then and only after he does he can a course that can be deemable or affirmably wise. But for most souls in this universe, only trying to act according to the best that each individual may really know how.

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fanofVan wrote:
Okay... Experiential Wisdom:


A distinction I think between perfecting experiential beings in time and perfect existential beings are that perfect existential beings do not sin or commit errors - they are without evil or sin. So perfect experiential beings benefit from experience but are also without evil/error or sin in their freewill choices and experiences in time. We also know that the only perfecting creature experiences which flow to the Supreme are those with eternal value and which do not contain and are not a result of evil, sin, or iniquity. There is a universal filtration system in the experiences in time and space that prevents any pollutants or distortions or effects from evil, sin, and iniquity from eternity and perfection.


When we regard the Creator Son, and the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon, as per Jesus of Nazareth, one representing "the human nature" and the latter representing "the divine nature" of Christ Michael, consider for one moment this passage:

[The Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon's acceptance of command of the celestial hosts.]
136:5.4 In accepting this command of the universe hosts in attendance upon Christ Michael, the Personalized Adjuster took great pains to point out to Jesus that, while such an assembly of universe creatures could be limited in their space activities by the delegated authority of their Creator, such limitations were not operative in connection with their function in time. And this limitation was dependent on the fact that Adjusters are nontime beings when once they are personalized. Accordingly was Jesus admonished that, while the Adjuster's control of the living intelligences placed under his command would be complete and perfect as to all matters involving space, there could be no such perfect limitations imposed regarding time. Said the Adjuster: “I will, as you have directed, enjoin the employment of this attendant host of universe intelligences in any manner in connection with your earth career except in those cases where the Paradise Father directs me to release such agencies in order that his divine will of your choosing may be accomplished, and in those instances where you may engage in any choice or act of your divine-human will which shall only involve departures from the natural earth order as to time. In all such events I am powerless, and your creatures here assembled in perfection and unity of power are likewise helpless. If your united natures once entertain such desires, these mandates of your choice will be forthwith executed. Your wish in all such matters will constitute the abridgment of time, and the thing projected is existent. Under my command this constitutes the fullest possible limitation which can be imposed upon your potential sovereignty. In my self-consciousness time is nonexistent, and therefore I cannot limit your creatures in anything related thereto.”

For descending Personalities, as in what fanofVan describes as perfect Beings, there is a separate outcome in the experience of being indwellt individually by a Fragment of the First Source. To create or to help the First Source and Center co-create this entity, this individual, known as a "Personalized Adjuster" I believe to be the best potential outcome, for descending Personalities who attain the fullness of experience in the Supreme Being.

There is this relationship, that the Personalized Adjuster, even though acting as a "nontime entity": has experience. As a relationship, the distinction between the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon and the Paradise Father, as separate individuals, is de facto the relationship between the Supreme Being and the First Source and Center.

I share this passage because this testimony, from the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon to Jesus, refers to "the Paradise Father". Such Personalized Adjuster could be referring only to the First Source and Center while making that indication. The testimony is an experience of Nebadon, and therefore indicative of how the Supreme Being knows personally "the Paradise Father". Therefore the issue is how one might identify, who or what exactly is the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon (of Machiventa Melchizedek and Creator Michael)? Is He the Personality Aspect of the First Source and Center, of Christ Michael? Is He a totally separate individual, from the One who is the Paradise Father? And what, if we can find the answer to those questions, is the relationship between the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon and Christ Michael; what is the relationship between the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon and the Paradise Father?

However, I regard distinctly, that the goal of mortal ascencion is not for the Father Fragment of the human individual's indwelling to become a Personalized Adjuster, but rather I regard this goal as to become fully fused with the experiences of the human individual. As such, there is a distinct comparison, between the final outcome of Jesus' Adjuster. I therefore take the status of any human individual I meet/encounter to be that of "pre-fused", in terms of [71:4.15] "the personal status of God-consciousness, which becomes revealed in the supreme desire of every individual to do the will of the Father in heaven." Since we as mortals are from Nebadon and not Paradise, or maybe too long time ago, we should/must ascend to become fully fused with the Adjuster, and not to allow the gift of Personality to become Personalised, only in the life of the First Source and Center. However, this is a shared goal of experience between creature and Creator in the Supreme Being; Michael descended so that we might learn as individuals how to ascend.

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"Your wish", the terminology presented to us from the midwayer commission. This shows one possible perspective that an Adjuster would regard towards the human individual. How does "supreme desire" of Jesus relate to what the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon called Jesus' "wish": "Your wishes are projected, and they exist, and I employ any agency necessary to have made that happen, and neither can I prevent that wish from being made manifest". A paraphrase of the earlier quote.

Well, I try not to extricate what "wish" may mean personally to one's indwelling Adjuster, as a separate concept from culturally, what it may mean "to wish". However, if I can take one thing culturally, that to wish reflects one's personal desire, and wishes are not only the desire of a human individual, naturally, but these are the articulation, within the personality of that individual, of one's personal desires. Let me say, that culturally, I refrain from consider what others call "wishes", I do not judge what others call wishes to be what the Adjuster may actually regard as personally "one's wishes".

But then, we should examine what the potential synonymy, or relationship between what it means personally "to desire", "to wish", or "to request/pray". The natural desires should become fully united with the knowledge per psychological maturity of the human individual, before wishes could have been regarded worthy enough "to have been projected and existent", by the individuating nontime Adjuster of mortal indwelling. 'Your Wish' or individually, the Supreme Wish, is a concept unrevealed to me, theoretically known only by the Fragment, and therefore articulation becomes necessary to translate the natural/mortal desires into something reasonably compatible with the will of the First Source. This concept 'your wish' may or might exclusively refer to the pre-fused entity's knowledge of the absolute destiny for that human individual. Therefore, one must work with desires, and learn to articulate desires properly, in order for even the potential of discernment; one learns to wish or to pray/supplicate to that Representative of the First Source, the Father Fragment of mortal inhabitment. Whereas the soul, the morontial Being, is that entity who learns to shape the natural desires of the mortal individual, presenting an articulate form of the wish, as in the self-directed choice, only thereafter can this wish be discerned and projected to the fullest extent possible, by such Fragment of the First Source. In this sense, theoretically (as I cannot really speak on behalf of the Adjuster), "knows our personal desires", and really must somehow "discern our supreme desires, and makes them real/existent once these wishes become finally articulated, as in the expression of a self-directed creature-chocie of consecrated worth." Then those experiences that follow the wishes/choice one having made, then the hereafter would be given towards that individual's finality attainment, everything that he would have had to have done in order to make such choice a reality in the grand universe.

So wish and choice are not really used interchangably or synonymously in the text; wish reflects the connotation of Jesus' supreme personal desire, not only for himself but for all Beings of Nebadon. The choice reflects something more: a finality attainment, the consecration of both supreme desire and reasoned wish that should be seen as indicated when Jesus did articulate his own purpose, while on the slopes of Hermon.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
Okay... Experiential Wisdom:


A distinction I think between perfecting experiential beings in time and perfect existential beings are that perfect existential beings do not sin or commit errors - they are without evil or sin. So perfect experiential beings benefit from experience but are also without evil/error or sin in their freewill choices and experiences in time. We also know that the only perfecting creature experiences which flow to the Supreme are those with eternal value and which do not contain and are not a result of evil, sin, or iniquity. There is a universal filtration system in the experiences in time and space that prevents any pollutants or distortions or effects from evil, sin, and iniquity from eternity and perfection.


When we regard the Creator Son, and the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon, as per Jesus of Nazareth, one representing "the human nature" and the latter representing "the divine nature" of Christ Michael, consider for one moment this passage:

[The Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon's acceptance of command of the celestial hosts.]
136:5.4 In accepting this command of the universe hosts in attendance upon Christ Michael, the Personalized Adjuster took great pains to point out to Jesus that, while such an assembly of universe creatures could be limited in their space activities by the delegated authority of their Creator, such limitations were not operative in connection with their function in time. And this limitation was dependent on the fact that Adjusters are nontime beings when once they are personalized. Accordingly was Jesus admonished that, while the Adjuster's control of the living intelligences placed under his command would be complete and perfect as to all matters involving space, there could be no such perfect limitations imposed regarding time. Said the Adjuster: “I will, as you have directed, enjoin the employment of this attendant host of universe intelligences in any manner in connection with your earth career except in those cases where the Paradise Father directs me to release such agencies in order that his divine will of your choosing may be accomplished, and in those instances where you may engage in any choice or act of your divine-human will which shall only involve departures from the natural earth order as to time. In all such events I am powerless, and your creatures here assembled in perfection and unity of power are likewise helpless. If your united natures once entertain such desires, these mandates of your choice will be forthwith executed. Your wish in all such matters will constitute the abridgment of time, and the thing projected is existent. Under my command this constitutes the fullest possible limitation which can be imposed upon your potential sovereignty. In my self-consciousness time is nonexistent, and therefore I cannot limit your creatures in anything related thereto.”

For descending Personalities, as in what fanofVan describes as perfect Beings, there is a separate outcome in the experience of being indwellt individually by a Fragment of the First Source. To create or to help the First Source and Center co-create this entity, this individual, known as a "Personalized Adjuster" I believe to be the best potential outcome, for descending Personalities who attain the fullness of experience in the Supreme Being.

There is this relationship, that the Personalized Adjuster, even though acting as a "nontime entity": has experience. As a relationship, the distinction between the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon and the Paradise Father, as separate individuals, is de facto the relationship between the Supreme Being and the First Source and Center.

I share this passage because this testimony, from the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon to Jesus, refers to "the Paradise Father". Such Personalized Adjuster could be referring only to the First Source and Center while making that indication. The testimony is an experience of Nebadon, and therefore indicative of how the Supreme Being knows personally "the Paradise Father". Therefore the issue is how one might identify, who or what exactly is the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon (of Machiventa Melchizedek and Creator Michael)? Is He the Personality Aspect of the First Source and Center, of Christ Michael? Is He a totally separate individual, from the One who is the Paradise Father? And what, if we can find the answer to those questions, is the relationship between the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon and Christ Michael; what is the relationship between the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon and the Paradise Father?

However, I regard distinctly, that the goal of mortal ascencion is not for the Father Fragment of the human individual's indwelling to become a Personalized Adjuster, but rather I regard this goal as to become fully fused with the experiences of the human individual. As such, there is a distinct comparison, between the final outcome of Jesus' Adjuster. I therefore take the status of any human individual I meet/encounter to be that of "pre-fused", in terms of [71:4.15] "the personal status of God-consciousness, which becomes revealed in the supreme desire of every individual to do the will of the Father in heaven." Since we as mortals are from Nebadon and not Paradise, or maybe too long time ago, we should/must ascend to become fully fused with the Adjuster, and not to allow the gift of Personality to become Personalised, only in the life of the First Source and Center. However, this is a shared goal of experience between creature and Creator in the Supreme Being; Michael descended so that we might learn as individuals how to ascend.


Couple of points of clarification Stephen...I did not say and it is not true that "descending personalities" are "perfect". My inquiry of wonderment was about Paradise Sons only.

1. The Descending Sons of God

20:1.1 (223.6) All descending Sons of God have high and divine origins. They are dedicated to the descending ministry of service on the worlds and systems of time and space, there to facilitate the progress in the Paradise climb of the lowly creatures of evolutionary origin—the ascending sons of God. Of the numerous orders of descending Sons, seven will be depicted in these narratives. Those Sons who come forth from the Deities on the central Isle of Light and Life are called the Paradise Sons of God and embrace the following three orders:

20:1.2 (223.7) 1. Creator Sons—the Michaels.
20:1.3 (223.8) 2. Magisterial Sons—the Avonals.
20:1.4 (223.9) 3. Trinity Teacher Sons—the Daynals.

Me here: then there are the Local Universe Descending Sons of God which do not originate in Paradise:

20:1.5 (223.10) The remaining four orders of descending sonship are known as the Local Universe Sons of God:

20:1.6 (223.11) 4. Melchizedek Sons.
20:1.7 (223.12) 5. Vorondadek Sons.
20:1.8 (223.13) 6. Lanonandek Sons.
20:1.9 (223.14) 7. The Life Carriers.

The Lanondek Sons are the beings or Sons which rule Systems and Planets. They are obviously not perfect. No Sons above this group have ever started or joined any rebellion we are told...but certainly Lucifer, Satan, Caligastia and other Lanonandeks have done so. Such iniquity and sin is not possible by any "perfect" being. None of the Local Universe Sons are of Paradise or Trinity origin....required I believe to be considered perfect.

As to my question, it was - are the Avonals and Daynals perfect like the Creator Sons as Paradise Sons?

Next....you ask above: "Is He the Personality Aspect of the First Source and Center, of Christ Michael?"

The answer is NO. The First Source and Center is the origin of ALL personality and is the FIRST personality. All Creator Sons have original personality upon their origin. The Son of Man was born with personality as well. The Thought Adjuster, even Personalized, are not the source of any being's personality. Personality is bestowed with freewill and mind at birth/origin. It is bestowed upon a God Fragment/TA "...by the acquirement of personal attributes through service-ministry to a personal being."

109:7.1 (1201.2) We cannot state whether or not non-Adjuster Father fragments are personalizable, but you have been informed that personality is the sovereign freewill bestowal of the Universal Father. As far as we know, the Adjuster type of Father fragment attains personality only by the acquirement of personal attributes through service-ministry to a personal being. These Personalized Adjusters are at home on Divinington, where they instruct and direct their prepersonal associates.

109:7.2 (1201.3) Personalized Thought Adjusters are the untrammeled, unassigned, and sovereign stabilizers and compensators of the far-flung universe of universes. They combine the Creator and creature experience—existential and experiential. They are conjoint time and eternity beings. They associate the prepersonal and the personal in universe administration.

You also ask above: "Is He a totally separate individual, from the One who is the Paradise Father?"

I believe so, yes. He has become personalized and humanized and experientialized.

109:7.3 (1201.4) Personalized Adjusters are the all-wise and powerful executives of the Architects of the Master Universe. They are the personal agents of the full ministry of the Universal Father—personal, prepersonal, and superpersonal. They are the personal ministers of the extraordinary, the unusual, and the unexpected throughout all the realms of the transcendental absonite spheres of the domain of God the Ultimate, even to the levels of God the Absolute.

109:7.4 (1201.5) They are the exclusive beings of the universes who embrace within their being all the known relationships of personality; they are omnipersonal—they are before personality, they are personality, and they are after personality. They minister the personality of the Universal Father as in the eternal past, the eternal present, and the eternal future.

109:7.5 (1201.6) Existential personality on the order of the infinite and absolute, the Father bestowed upon the Eternal Son, but he chose to reserve for his own ministry the experiential personality of the type of the Personalized Adjuster bestowed upon the existential prepersonal Adjuster; and they are thus both destined to the future eternal superpersonality of the transcendental ministry of the absonite realms of the Ultimate, the Supreme-Ultimate, even to the levels of the Ultimate-Absolute.

Me here: Personalized Adjusters must be humanized I believe. Only those Sons who live as humans are so endowed I believe. Midwayers, Guardian Angels, and Material Sons and Daughters are or can be likewise humanized for Paradise ascension and receive TA's as part of that experiential perfecting experience. All Adjusters seek experience in the material realms I think.

108:0.2 (1185.2) Nothing in the entire universe can substitute for the fact of experience on nonexistential levels. The infinite God is, as always, replete and complete, infinitely inclusive of all things except evil and creature experience. God cannot do wrong; he is infallible. God cannot experientially know what he has never personally experienced; God’s preknowledge is existential. Therefore does the spirit of the Father descend from Paradise to participate with finite mortals in every bona fide experience of the ascending career; it is only by such a method that the existential God could become in truth and in fact man’s experiential Father. The infinity of the eternal God encompasses the potential for finite experience, which indeed becomes actual in the ministry of the Adjuster fragments that actually share the life vicissitude experiences of human beings.

One final nit to pick (hahahaha) is that mortals are not yet considered ascenders until after fusion with the TA. We are still on a form of probation (probie tadpoles - faith sons!!) during the Circle Progress Adventure. True ascension is an eternity experience with a definitive beginning...fusion between human/soul and God Fragment...a new experiential ascending Son.

Finally....I certainly agree that the relationship between the Nebadon Chief Personalized Adjuster's relationship to Michael and to God and to the Supreme are indeed interesting!! This is so very relevant to our study and consideration of Experiential Wisdom.

Thank you Stephen!!

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Jesus prepared his service to the indwelling Adjuster, and now the prerogatives of the Creator Son have been fully relinquished to the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon. The question, then becomes for the average individual to obtain cosmic citizenship, how can the actual rulership of that "nontime" entity known as the personalized thought adjuster formerly of indwelling status machiventa melchizedek and jesus be recognised?

Consider that before any Thought Adjuster theoretically would indwell a human individual, such entity has ideal professional potentials approved by this entity, whom I refer to. A Thought Adjuster of indwelling status has coordinated, and continues to coordinate the life of Nebadon, through His/its service to the Chief of Adjusters. The experiencial sovereignty of Nebadon is attained gradually, just as the soul of the human individual becomes as a self-directed being. In addition to Michael the Sovereign Paradise Son, throughout all Nebadon, we must consider this nontime element of existence, and how the Personalized Adjuster of Jesus makes all sincere choices of the children of Urantia into part of the Paradise Father's reality, or has allowed for this to occur.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Jesus prepared his service to the indwelling Adjuster, and now the prerogatives of the Creator Son have been fully relinquished to the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon. The question, then becomes for the average individual to obtain cosmic citizenship, how can the actual rulership of that "nontime" entity known as the personalized thought adjuster formerly of indwelling status machiventa melchizedek and jesus be recognised?

Consider that before any Thought Adjuster theoretically would indwell a human individual, such entity has ideal professional potentials approved by this entity, whom I refer to. A Thought Adjuster of indwelling status has coordinated, and continues to coordinate the life of Nebadon, through His/its service to the Chief of Adjusters. The experiencial sovereignty of Nebadon is attained gradually, just as the soul of the human individual becomes as a self-directed being. In addition to Michael the Sovereign Paradise Son, throughout all Nebadon, we must consider this nontime element of existence, and how the Personalized Adjuster of Jesus makes all sincere choices of the children of Urantia into part of the Paradise Father's reality, or has allowed for this to occur.


Stephen...it would be such a help if you would post supporting text with your claims and proclamations. It is not true that the "prerogatives of the Creator Son have been fully relinquished to the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon".

That was never true. In the Perean hills, Jesus "assigned command" of the angelic and heavenly hosts on Urantia to his Personalized Adjuster for the next 4 years of his ministry/bestowal...according to the text. Once resurrected Michael fully regained all prior sovereignty as Creator Son and all of his new powers as Master Son which he temporarily relinquished to Immanuel while he completed his final bestowal mission here on Urantia, as had also been transferred during the prior 6 bestowals. Thus, it is also not true that the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon "continues to coordinate the life of Nebadon…" nor was it ever true.

In fact, it was Immanuel who was in charge of Nebadon the entire time of Michael's final bestowal on Urantia (and all prior bestowals as well). Not the Personalized Adjuster of Nebadon who did not become that personage until after the completed 7th bestowal in the Perean Hills. Jesus' Adjuster was charged only with the heavenly hosts serving Jesus/Michael during the final bestowal, not the administration of Nebadon. So the Personalized Adjuster has never been in charge of the coordination of the life of Nebadon...as you claim.

119:1.1 (1309.2) It was a solemn occasion on Salvington almost one billion years ago when the assembled directors and chiefs of the universe of Nebadon heard Michael announce that his elder brother, Immanuel, would presently assume authority in Nebadon while he (Michael) would be absent on an unexplained mission. No other announcement was made about this transaction except that the farewell broadcast to the Constellation Fathers, among other instructions, said: “And for this period I place you under the care and keeping of Immanuel while I go to do the bidding of my Paradise Father.”

120:0.8 (1325.1) There were immediate advantages and tremendous compensations resultant from the willingness of this mighty Creator Son once more voluntarily to subordinate himself to the will of the Paradise Deities, this time to that of the Universal Father. By this decision to effect such associative subordination, Michael would experience in this incarnation, not only the nature of mortal man, but also the will of the Paradise Father of all. And further, he could enter upon this unique bestowal with the complete assurance, not only that Immanuel would exercise the full authority of the Paradise Father in the administration of his universe during his absence on the Urantia bestowal, but also with the comforting knowledge that the Ancients of Days of the superuniverse had decreed the safety of his realm throughout the entire bestowal period.

Me here: The actual role of this Personalized Adjuster is important and powerful and most interesting to study. So why invent and exaggerate such fictions for this study group?? Can you not post text and give comments and opinions which reflect the actual content of the Papers?? What's up with that??!!

109:6.4 (1200.4) The activities of Adjusters in your local universe are directed by the Personalized Adjuster of Michael of Nebadon, that very Monitor who guided him step by step when he lived his human life in the flesh of Joshua ben Joseph. Faithful to his trust was this extraordinary Adjuster, and wisely did this valiant Monitor direct the human nature, ever guiding the mortal mind of the Paradise Son in the choosing of the path of the Father’s perfect will. This Adjuster had previously served with Machiventa Melchizedek in the days of Abraham and had engaged in tremendous exploits both previous to this indwelling and between these bestowal experiences.

136:5.3 (1516.3) Before coming down from the forty days’ retreat in the hills, Jesus assigned the immediate command of this attendant host of universe personalities to his recently Personalized Adjuster, and for more than four years of Urantia time did these selected personalities from every division of universe intelligences obediently and respectfully function under the wise guidance of this exalted and experienced Personalized Mystery Monitor. In assuming command of this mighty assembly, the Adjuster, being a onetime part and essence of the Paradise Father, assured Jesus that in no case would these superhuman agencies be permitted to serve, or manifest themselves in connection with, or in behalf of, his earth career unless it should develop that the Father willed such intervention. Thus by one great decision Jesus voluntarily deprived himself of all superhuman co-operation in all matters having to do with the remainder of his mortal career unless the Father might independently choose to participate in some certain act or episode of the Son’s earth labors.

189:3.4 (2024.6) When the signal of the planetary resurrection had been received by the chief of archangels, the Personalized Adjuster of the Son of Man relinquished his authority over the celestial hosts assembled on Urantia, turning all these sons of the local universe back to the jurisdiction of their respective commanders. And when he had done this, he departed for Salvington to register with Immanuel the completion of the mortal transit of Michael. And he was immediately followed by all the celestial host not required for duty on Urantia. But Gabriel remained on Urantia with the morontia Jesus.

Me here: the reality presented in the Urantia Papers is sufficiently awesome and powerful without invention and misinformation I think.

But certainly is the study of the God Fragments and their purpose and relationship to humans and other ascenders including those prepersonal fragments of both the Son and Spirit of great interest and value in our consideration of Experiential Wisdom. The relationship of this Adjuster to Jesus's stated dedication of his human will to the Father's will is very interesting. This Adjuster was the very embodiment and delivery vehicle/personality (now personalized!) OF God's will.

120:1.2 (1325.4) “Throughout each of your former bestowals you have voluntarily chosen to subject yourself to the will of the three Paradise Deities and their divine interassociations. Of the seven phases of the will of the Supreme you have in your previous bestowals been subject to all but the personal will of your Paradise Father. Now that you have elected to be wholly subject to your Father’s will throughout your seventh bestowal, I, as the personal representative of our Father, assume the unqualified jurisdiction of your universe for the time of your incarnation.



Me here: I do appreciate the effort Stephen....but PLEASE do your research and post supporting text for such important, and in this case false/misleading claims!! Your fictions are so disrupting and so misinformed and such a disservice to the Papers and all students of the Papers gathered here. Is it you intention here to falsify the Revelation to others?? For that's what you do with nearly every post. So sad. Please stop. Read the book. Post the text. Discuss the actual contents. Please.

Thank you!!


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The Spirit of Truth/ spirit of Truth is a planetary achievement for Creator Sons, whether of the order of Avonal or Michael, that signifies the universal bestowal of Thought Adjusters for every soul of a planet. Therefore, there must be some coordination between the Divine Minister of Salvington, and the Personalised Adjuster of Jesus-Machiventa, which would make "Truth" real to the God-conscious soul. The manner, means, or way of Jesus, signifies the approach whereby the human individual may actually recognise that Fragment who has actual custody and enjoys actual indwelling.


5:5.1 Morality has its origin in the reason of self-consciousness; it is superanimal but wholly evolutionary. Human evolution embraces in its unfolding all endowments antecedent to the bestowal of the Adjusters and to the pouring out of the Spirit of Truth. But the attainment of levels of morality does not deliver man from the real struggles of mortal living. Man's physical environment entails the battle for existence; the social surroundings necessitate ethical adjustments; the moral situations require the making of choices in the highest realms of reason; the spiritual experience ... demands that man find him and sincerely strive to be like him.
The Spirit of Truth can only be known by the soul of the mortal creature. You cannot have the spirit of truth on a world that is evolving, a world of evolving Lemurs, not really. The time-presence of the Nebadon Son, was real before the life of Jesus. But after the life of Jesus, the prerogatives of the Creator Son had been liberated and bestowed conjointly upon both the Divine Minister of Salvington, and anyone capable of attaining the maximum final experiencial realisation of Truth.

34:4.5 The Creator Sons are endowed with a spirit of universe presence in many ways analogous to that of the Seven Master Spirits of Paradise. This is the spirit of Truth which is poured out upon a world by a bestowal Son after he receives spiritual title to such a sphere. This bestowed Comforter is the spiritual force which ever draws all Truth seekers towards Him who is the personification of Truth in the local universe. This spirit is an inherent endowment of the Creator Son, emerging from his divine nature just as the master circuits of the grand universe are derived from the personality presences of the Paradise Deities.
Jesus "tamed" the spiritual drawing force of spirit-energy in his own mind, his own moral reason given to the action, the will of the First Source and Center. The "spiritual drawing force", the truth within "Truth seekers" acts in the same way, obtains experiencial realisation as an emergent soul, but this is being expressed through the conjoint expression of universe-service both of that soul and of the Divine Minister.
All of the command from the celestial hosts that the Personalised Adjuster of Nebadon once had been offered, from Michael or from the soul of Jesus, is reasonably a series of cosmic liberties bestowed upon every human individual. Jesus did not enjoy that of himself, but through his loving devotion to all children of Urantia, even every of His Apostles.

34:4.6 The Creator Son may come and go; his personal presence may be in the local universe or elsewhere; yet the Spirit of Truth functions undisturbed, for this divine presence, while derived from the personality of the Creator Son, is functionally centered in the person of the Divine Minister.
Someone explain this: that the personality of the Creator Son as the ultimate of creature-realised experiences, is existentially real in the experience of Nebadon. As much as the Thought Adjuster could guide the worshipping human individual to find and secure wisdom, it is the fused-personality of the ascender that finds a unique goal, of how as individuals you might serve God in the universe of Nebadon. How a person chooses, and if I actually thereby chose the will of the First Source, is proven through the ever-enhancing quality of devotion, man's own devotion to his own household, the creatures therein, and how man becomes like the Divine Minister through maintaining/defending both Jesus' and his' choices.
The Personification of Truth was realised through Michael's creating life in forms that have proven worthy to ascend, to realise experiencial goals that are trut in the Supreme Being. Now, the Divine Minister, as a focalised space-Presence, is able to embody and represent that to all souls who are capable of themeselves, as individuals, realising the maximum value of ascent, eternal service to the First Source and Center.

34:4.7 The Universe Mother Spirit, however, never leaves the local universe headquarters world. The Spirit of the Creator Son may and does function independently of the personal presence of the Son, but not so with her personal Spirit. The Holy Spirit of the Divine Minister would become nonfunctional if her personal presence should be removed from Salvington. Her Spirit presence seems to be fixed on the universe headquarters world, and it is this very fact that enables the Spirit of the Creator Son to function independently of the whereabouts of the Son. The Universe Mother Spirit acts as the universe focus and center of the Spirit of Truth as well as of her own personal influence, the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of Truth works as one with the presence of the Spirit of the Divine Minister. This dual Spirit liaison hovers over the worlds, seeking to teach Truth and to spiritually enlighten the minds of men, to inspire the souls of the creatures of the ascending races, and to lead the peoples dwelling on the evolutionary planets ever towards their Paradise goal of divine destiny.
"Her personal spirit" is the individuating reality of the Divine Minister of Salvington, throughout Nebadon. I theorise that this individual will, and desires to, do the will of the Universal Father, that eventually the Divine Minister will reveal the personalised Thought Adjuster of Salvington, by attaining the maximum realisable potential of the Supreme Being in creature experiences of her own order of creation.

34:5.7 The presence of the Holy Spirit of the Universe Daughter of the Infinite Spirit, of the Spirit of Truth of the Universe Son of the Eternal Son, and of the Adjuster-Spirit of the Paradise Father in or with an evolutionary mortal, denotes symmetry of spiritual endowment and ministry and qualifies such a mortal consciously to realize the faith-fact of sonship with God.
I theorise that spiritual endowment and ministry, is seen as given, from the fact that the Divine Minister of Salvington was at first an undifferentiable presence of the Infinite Mind, when at first the Creator Son Michael gave the commands to initiate creation inside the local universe of Nebadon. As the Spirit of Truth is seen as dual, this is the experiencial attainment of the Divine Minister, through the experiencial bestowal Sons, and eternal betrothal, her likeness, to the Paradise Son. The symmetry of the human soul, the actual kinship to the Divine Minister of Salvington, is that the Adjuster focalises Truth of the human soul eternally, through Paradise, just as the Spirit of Truth is focalised on Salvington, through the experience of the Divine Minister.
There must be theorised, an experiencial-eternal counterpart of the Divine Minister of Salvington, that there is a Trinity Function that applies individually to such a Being, in which just as you individually is guided by an existential fragment of the Paradise Father, so there is the worthiness of the Divine Minister to ascend to Paradise, focalised and factualised by the presence of the Spirit of Truth, revealed by the facts of how Jesus' soul "ascended", in every series of creature-life (Satania, Edentia, and Salvington) affirmed the final experiencial goals of any created Beings ministered either by the Divine Minister, the Cosmic Mind of Uversa, or the Infinite Spirit, and through the virtue of the Personalized Adjuster of Jesus-Machiventa, makes real the potential of experiencial truth on a creature level of mind.

49:5.25 the spirit of Truth for planetary function, and thus effect the universal coming of the Thought Adjusters.
The Spirit of Truth, the presence of the Creator Son in his local universe, has effectuated a planetary function. The Spirit of Truth, together with universal bestowal of Thought Adjuster, helps the human individual to know, or to infer consciously, their own relationship to the Creator Son, and this relationship as a ministration of the Comfortor Spirit of Salvington, helps man to reason his duty to Urantia. If man realises the potential to actually make a choice.
That maximum experienciable realisation of the Divine Minister of Salvington, as an individual, could only occur on the level of the local universe, Nebadon.

56:3.3 No matter on what level of universe activities you may encounter spiritual phenomena or contact with spirit beings, you may know that they are all derived from the God who is spirit by the ministry of the spirit Son and the Infinite Mind spirit. And this far-flung spirit functions as a phenomenon on the evolutionary worlds of time as it is directed from the headquarters of the local universes. From these capitals of the Creator Sons come the Holy spirit and the spirit of Truth, together with the ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits, to the lower and evolving levels of material minds.

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Stephen claim: "Therefore, there must be some coordination between the Divine Minister of Salvington, and the Personalised Adjuster of Jesus-Machiventa, which would make "Truth" real to the God-conscious soul."

Stephen...again you overreach and misrepresent!! The Universe Personalized Adjuster came long, long after the Spirit of the Son/Truth had already been gifted/bestowed to many, many of Nebadon's evolutionary worlds. The flood of TA's to each world effectively gave voice to the Son's Spirit prior to Jesus's life and Michael's 7th bestowal.

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While Stephen is incorrect above in his claims that the Personalized Adjuster of our Michael and Creator Son (or the Son of Man called Jesus as we also know him) is responsible in some way for making "Truth real", there actually is an experiential quality and enhancement of the nature of the Local Universe Spirit of Truth (the Son's Spirit) due to the completion of the 7th and final bestowal and the experiential elevation of the Creator Son to Master Son. And there is also a direct connection on each world between the bestowal of the Son's Spirit of Truth and the mind ministry of the God Fragments which only become universally bestowed after the Son's Spirit is released world by world.

Prior to Michael's final bestowal as a mortal and human born in the material realms of his own creation, each evolutionary world that had received the Spirit of the Son had done so because of the Magisterial Bestowal Mission of an Avonal Son - one of the 3 Paradise Sons of God. The Creator Son himself only visits one out of 10 million such worlds on his 7th and final bestowal mission (read Paper 119 for Michael's 7 different bestowals) and all the rest of the Local Universe evolutionary worlds receive an Avonal Son on a very similar and specific ministry and mission to each and every one of the 10 million evolutionary worlds in each Local Universe.

But when the Local Universe Creator Son completes his 7th and final bestowal, many things change in that Local Universe! One of them is the function and role of the Local Universe Personalized Thought Adjuster of the Creator Son who just completed his final bestowal and is now the Master Son of the Local Universe. This experiential result does deliver new power and connection and potential to each Local Universe. The UB is not precise in how this new position and power changes the Spirit Ministry or the activities of the Thought Adjusters indwelling the minds of all the mortals or of those fused mortals from time throughout the Local and Super Universes. But I agree with Stephen that such changes are likely!

One thing we are told is that the very nature of the Spirit of Truth changes. It changes instantly in quality for all those worlds that had received the Son's Spirit prior to the 7th and final bestowal and it changes the nature of the Son's Spirit in all worlds which receive the Son's Spirit by the Avonal Son's Magesterial Missions thereafter. There are many other changes afoot too by this experiential accomplishment and elevation from Creator Son to Master Son.

This upstep in Experiential Wisdom has a profound impact on the entire Local Universe...and the world upon which this Son of God who has become the Son of Man achieves this crowing glory of this experience which took about one billion years of Urantia time for our Michael Son to accomplish. Those readers who remain anxious and still fear the results and the potential of rebellion are evidently not familiar with these power structure changes that are so important to the stabilization of every Local Universe. I hope hereafter all UB readers may know of a certainty that there is nothing to fear about the state of Nebadon or Satania or our world...the Shrine of Nebadon!!

There are certain limits placed upon a Creator Son's sovereignty and power in every Local Universe until the full realization of Experiential Wisdom has been attained by the 7th and Final Creator Son bestowal, which occurred for our Michael Son here on Urantia. Elevation to Master Son immediately settles forever all former mischief and iniquity of rebellion and prevents all future rebellion from its evolutionary repercussions!!! The Satania rebellion is absolutely and forever over and ended since Michael's resurrection on Urantia. So...although these Paradise Sons of God are created from, by, and in perfection, still do they gain much power and authority and wisdom by their experiences in time.

20:5.3 (227.6) Some order of Paradise Son must be bestowed upon each mortal-inhabited world in order to make it possible for Thought Adjusters to indwell the minds of all normal human beings on that sphere, for the Adjusters do not come to all bona fide human beings until the Spirit of Truth has been poured out upon all flesh; and the sending of the Spirit of Truth is dependent upon the return to universe headquarters of a Paradise Son who has successfully executed a mission of mortal bestowal upon an evolving world.

20:5.4 (228.1) During the course of the long history of an inhabited planet, many dispensational adjudications will take place, and more than one magisterial mission may occur, but ordinarily only once will a bestowal Son serve on the sphere. It is only required that each inhabited world have one bestowal Son come to live the full mortal life from birth to death. Sooner or later, regardless of spiritual status, every mortal-inhabited world is destined to become host to a Magisterial Son on a bestowal mission except the one planet in each local universe whereon a Creator Son elects to make his mortal bestowal.

20:5.5 (228.2) Understanding more about the bestowal Sons, you discern why so much interest attaches to Urantia in the history of Nebadon. Your small and insignificant planet is of local universe concern simply because it is the mortal home world of Jesus of Nazareth. It was the scene of the final and triumphant bestowal of your Creator Son, the arena in which Michael won the supreme personal sovereignty of the universe of Nebadon.

20:6.4 (229.3) When a bestowal Son has mastered the experience of living the mortal life, when he has achieved perfection of attunement with his indwelling Adjuster, thereupon he begins that part of his planetary mission designed to illuminate the minds and to inspire the souls of his brethren in the flesh. As teachers, these Sons are exclusively devoted to the spiritual enlightenment of the mortal races on the worlds of their sojourn.

20:6.6 (229.5) When the bestowal Sons, Creator or Magisterial, enter the portals of death, they reappear on the third day. But you should not entertain the idea that they always meet with the tragic end encountered by the Creator Son who sojourned on your world nineteen hundred years ago. The extraordinary and unusually cruel experience through which Jesus of Nazareth passed has caused Urantia to become locally known as “the world of the cross.” It is not necessary that such inhuman treatment be accorded a Son of God, and the vast majority of planets have afforded them a more considerate reception, allowing them to finish their mortal careers, terminate the age, adjudicate the sleeping survivors, and inaugurate a new dispensation, without imposing a violent death. A bestowal Son must encounter death, must pass through the whole of the actual experience of mortals of the realms, but it is not a requirement of the divine plan that this death be either violent or unusual.

20:6.7 (229.6) When bestowal Sons are not put to death by violence, they voluntarily relinquish their lives and pass through the portals of death, not to satisfy the demands of “stern justice” or “divine wrath,” but rather to complete the bestowal, “to drink the cup” of the career of incarnation and personal experience in all that constitutes a creature’s life as it is lived on the planets of mortal existence. Bestowal is a planetary and a universe necessity, and physical death is nothing more than a necessary part of a bestowal mission.

20:6.8 (230.1) When the mortal incarnation is finished, the Avonal of service proceeds to Paradise, is accepted by the Universal Father, returns to the local universe of assignment, and is acknowledged by the Creator Son. Thereupon the bestowal Avonal and the Creator Son send their conjoint Spirit of Truth to function in the hearts of the mortal races dwelling on the bestowal world. In the presovereignty ages of a local universe, this is the joint spirit of both Sons, implemented by the Creative Spirit. It differs somewhat from the Spirit of Truth which characterizes the local universe ages following a Michael’s seventh bestowal.

20:6.9 (230.2) Upon the completion of a Creator Son’s final bestowal the Spirit of Truth previously sent into all Avonal-bestowal worlds of that local universe changes in nature, becoming more literally the spirit of the sovereign Michael. This phenomenon takes place concurrently with the liberation of the Spirit of Truth for service on the Michael-mortal-bestowal planet. Thereafter, each world honored by a Magisterial bestowal will receive the same spirit Comforter from the sevenfold Creator Son, in association with that Magisterial Son, which it would have received had the local universe Sovereign personally incarnated as its bestowal Son.

21:3.13 (238.7) Even in the prebestowal ages a Creator Son rules his domain well-nigh supremely when there is no dissent in any of its parts. Limited rulership would hardly be manifest if sovereignty were never challenged. The sovereignty exercised by a prebestowal Creator Son in a universe without rebellion is no greater than in a universe with rebellion; but in the first instance sovereignty limitations are not apparent; in the second, they are.

21:3.14 (238.8) If ever the authority or administration of a Creator Son is challenged, attacked, or jeopardized, he is eternally pledged to uphold, protect, defend, and if necessary retrieve his personal creation. Such Sons can be troubled or harassed only by the creatures of their own making or by higher beings of their own choosing. It might be inferred that “higher beings,” those of origin on levels above a local universe, would be unlikely to trouble a Creator Son, and this is true. But they could if they chose to. Virtue is volitional with personality; righteousness is not automatic in freewill creatures.

21:3.15 (238.9) Before the completion of the bestowal career a Creator Son rules with certain self-imposed limitations of sovereignty, but subsequent to his finished bestowal service he rules by virtue of his actual experience in the form and likeness of his manifold creatures. When a Creator has seven times sojourned among his creatures, when the bestowal career is finished, then is he supremely settled in universe authority; he has become a Master Son, a sovereign and supreme ruler.

21:4.4 (239.10) After each of his bestowals a Creator Son proceeds to the “right hand of the Father,” there to gain the Father’s acceptance of the bestowal and to receive instruction preparatory to the next episode of universe service. Following the seventh and final bestowal a Creator Son receives from the Universal Father supreme authority and jurisdiction over his universe.

21:4.5 (240.1) It is of record that the divine Son of last appearance on your planet was a Paradise Creator Son who had completed six phases of his bestowal career; consequently, when he gave up the conscious grasp of the incarnated life on Urantia, he could, and did, truly say, “It is finished”—it was literally finished. His death on Urantia completed his bestowal career; it was the last step in fulfilling the sacred oath of a Paradise Creator Son. And when this experience has been acquired, such Sons are supreme universe sovereigns; no longer do they rule as vicegerents of the Father but in their own right and name as “King of Kings and Lord of Lords.” With certain stated exceptions these sevenfold bestowal Sons are unqualifiedly supreme in the universes of their abode. Concerning his local universe, “all power in heaven and on earth” was relegated to this triumphant and enthroned Master Son.

21:4.6 (240.2) Creator Sons, subsequent to the completion of their bestowal careers, are reckoned as a separate order, sevenfold Master Sons. In person the Master Sons are identical with the Creator Sons, but they have undergone such a unique bestowal experience that they are commonly regarded as a different order. When a Creator deigns to effect a bestowal, a real and permanent change is destined to take place. True, the bestowal Son is still and none the less a Creator, but he has added to his nature the experience of a creature, which forever removes him from the divine level of a Creator Son and elevates him to the experiential plane of a Master Son, one who has fully earned the right to rule a universe and administer its worlds. Such beings embody all that can be secured from divine parentage and embrace everything to be derived from perfected-creature experience. Why should man bemoan his lowly origin and enforced evolutionary career when the very Gods must pass through an equivalent experience before they are accounted experientially worthy and competent finally and fully to rule over their universe domains!

21:5.9 (241.3) After his elevation to settled sovereignty in a local universe a Paradise Michael is in full control of all other Sons of God functioning in his domain, and he may freely rule in accordance with his concept of the needs of his realms. A Master Son may at will vary the order of the spiritual adjudication and evolutionary adjustment of the inhabited planets. And such Sons do make and carry out the plans of their own choosing in all matters of special planetary needs, in particular regarding the worlds of their creature sojourn and still more concerning the realm of terminal bestowal, the planet of incarnation in the likeness of mortal flesh.

21:5.10 (241.4) The Master Sons seem to be in perfect communication with their bestowal worlds, not only the worlds of their personal sojourn but all worlds whereon a Magisterial Son has bestowed himself. This contact is maintained by their own spiritual presence, the Spirit of Truth, which they are able to “pour out upon all flesh.” These Master Sons also maintain an unbroken connection with the Eternal Mother Son at the center of all things. They possess a sympathetic reach which extends from the Universal Father on high to the lowly races of planetary life in the realms of time.

:biggrin: 8)


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