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 Post subject: Spiritual Pride
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This is a recent post by a member here that is representative of other opinions posted on more than one topic here at TruthBook due to perceived bickering and squabbling. But this is the first to accuse others of spiritual pride. A most interesting topic to me. One with very little text in the UB...mentioned only 3 times and all 3 by Jesus. I am not naming the author of the post as it is put here out of context to its origin. "You guys" seems generally directed to more than one person at the other topic but certainly I was one of those to whom it refers.

"Why should the moderators intervene again when you guys, all of you, never seem to learn? You apologize repeatedly with abundant crocodile tears and promises to repent, but in no time you are at it again. Because of what? It is the elephant of spiritual pride in the room. Everyone sees it but you! You all need to refocus your energies on the needs of others in service to mankind instead of these pissing contests of UB knowledge and intentional baiting of one another in the name of "free and open discussion". Get a grip on reality you guys! Enough is enough!"


This topic is no defense against that accusation but a study of the issue of pride in general and spiritual pride more specifically. I will say that this post below appears to me to exhibit that which is accused of others...spiritual pride. Such criticism is a judgment of the motive and intent of others and a claim of greater wisdom by the accuser than those so accused. An interesting paradox to consider!

There is a topic begun on the issue of squabbling for those who are interested::

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5637&start=0



The 2 quotes on spiritual pride:

147:5.7 That same evening Jesus made the long-to-be-remembered address to the apostles regarding the relative value of status with God and progress in the eternal ascent to Paradise Said Jesus: “My children, if there exists a true and living connection between the child and the Father, the child is certain to progress continuously toward the Father's ideals. True, the child may at first make slow progress, but the progress is none the less sure. The important thing is not the rapidity of your progress but rather its certainty. Your actual achievement is not so important as the fact that the direction of your progress is Godward. What you are becoming day by day is of infinitely more importance than what you are today.

147:5.8 “This transformed woman whom some of you saw at Simon's house today is, at this moment, living on a level which is vastly below that of Simon and his well-meaning associates; but while these Pharisees are occupied with the false progress of the illusion of traversing deceptive circles of meaningless ceremonial services, this woman has, in dead earnest, started out on the long and eventful search for God, and her path toward heaven is not blocked by spiritual pride and moral self-satisfaction. The woman is, humanly speaking, much farther away from God than Simon, but her soul is in progressive motion; she is on the way toward an eternal goal. There are present in this woman tremendous spiritual possibilities for the future. Some of you may not stand high in actual levels of soul and spirit, but you are making daily progress on the living way opened up, through faith, to God. There are tremendous possibilities in each of you for the future. Better by far to have a small but living and growing faith than to be possessed of a great intellect with its dead stores of worldly wisdom and spiritual unbelief.”

163:6.6 The next day being the Sabbath, Jesus went apart with the seventy and said to them: “I did indeed rejoice with you when you came back bearing the good tidings of the reception of the gospel of the kingdom by so many people scattered throughout Galilee, Samaria, and Judea. But why were you so surprisingly elated? Did you not expect that your message would manifest power in its delivery? Did you go forth with so little faith in this gospel that you come back in surprise at its effectiveness? And now, while I would not quench your spirit of rejoicing, I would sternly warn you against the subtleties of pride, spiritual pride. If you could understand the downfall of Lucifer, the iniquitous one, you would solemnly shun all forms of spiritual pride.

There are 51 quotes with "pride" included in the text:

https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

And one of my favorite quotes about spiritual pride without using those words:

140:3.17 "You are commissioned to save men, not to judge them. At the end of your earth life you will all expect mercy; therefore do I require of you during your mortal life that you show mercy to all of your brethren in the flesh. Make not the mistake of trying to pluck a mote out of your brother's eye when there is a beam in your own eye. Having first cast the beam out of your own eye, you can the better see to cast the mote out of your brother's eye.

Although we are not to have sufficient pride in our own spirituality or spirit standing as judge the relative spirituality or worthiness of others, still, in the next breath we are advised to be discerning and wise in our judgment of others' priorities and agendas:

140:3.18 "Discern the truth clearly; live the righteous life fearlessly; and so shall you be my apostles and my Father's ambassadors. You have heard it said: `If the blind lead the blind, they both shall fall into the pit.' If you would guide others into the kingdom, you must yourselves walk in the clear light of living truth. In all the business of the kingdom I exhort you to show just judgment and keen wisdom. Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.

140:3.19 "I warn you against false prophets who will come to you in sheep's clothing, while on the inside they are as ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree brings forth good fruit, but the corrupt tree bears evil fruit. A good tree cannot yield evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is presently hewn down and cast into the fire. In gaining an entrance into the kingdom of heaven, it is the motive that counts. My Father looks into the hearts of men and judges by their inner longings and their sincere intentions.

So I would suggest that the text teachings on pride and spiritual pride are more complicated than simple and certainly worthy of our consideration.

I know of 3 persons in the history of the UB movement that certainly succumbed to the poison of spiritual pride. All 3 suffered great downfalls personally and yet each served the movement with sincerity and skill prior to this malady of ego and blindness. There is an old saying that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We all know the stories of leaders and celebrities who fall in love with the adoration of others or become corrupted by their power over others. Or those who simply love themselves and their own beliefs so much that they are or become blind to all other people and perspectives. Indeed, one could easily argue it is a rare person who is not guilty or has no need to deal with the temptation and allures of personal pride.

Truth seekers and religionists are certainly aware of the potential for ego and prejudice in the pursuit of spiritual growth and understanding. The Jim Jones and David Kareshes of the world are infamous. But less powerful and less famous people, even ordinary believers can succumb to this weakness.

111:6.2 The courage required to effect the conquest of nature and to transcend one's self is a courage that might succumb to the temptations of self-pride. The mortal who can transcend self might yield to the temptation to deify his own self-consciousness. The mortal dilemma consists in the double fact that man is in bondage to nature while at the same time he possesses a unique liberty— freedom of spiritual choice and action. On material levels man finds himself subservient to nature, while on spiritual levels he is triumphant over nature and over all things temporal and finite. Such a paradox is inseparable from temptation, potential evil, decisional errors, and when self becomes proud and arrogant, sin may evolve.

111:6.9 Of all the dangers which beset man's mortal nature and jeopardize his spiritual integrity, pride is the greatest. Courage is valorous, but egotism is vainglorious and suicidal. Reasonable self-confidence is not to be deplored. Man's ability to transcend himself is the one thing which distinguishes him from the animal kingdom.

111:6.10 Pride is deceitful, intoxicating, and sin-breeding whether found in an individual, a group, a race, or a nation. It is literally true, “Pride goes before a fall.”

Spiritual pride is a very common subject in Part IV in that it truly gripped and drove the Judaic priesthood and so Jesus spent much time discussing it, teaching the apostles about it, dodging and dancing with its agenda to silence and then kill him.

But Lucifer and the rebellion are the most obvious lessons on spiritual pride included in the UB. Self love can lead to the exercise of false liberty and importance of self over all others and all other priorities in all situations. To believe one spiritually superior and therefor more important than others is proof positive of its delusion and fiction and danger. Lucifer not only denied the existence of God but determined himself to be more important than any other and all other beings. Jesus taught how false and dangerous it is to believe we are more important to God than any other, even one other, person. For such a belief falsifies God's universal paternity and love for both all but also each of his children.

I hope for others to join in with their own thoughts and discussion and quotes to consider pride in general and spiritual pride specifically. What is it? What are its symptoms? What are its results?

Perhaps we should also consider humility and meekness in our studies here too?? Yes, we probably should!!

Link to "humble and humility" quotes:

https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

Bradly 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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Pride begins naturally enough for humans as its origin is akin to self importance, the norm for one of our dual natures, the animal or spirit-less me. For some or many or even most, this too often grows into self admiration or the love of self. Even though any truly objective perspective would result in more humility and meekness, our subjective opinion is more generous in its assessment of self. Pride comes easily and is often encouraged by the family and tribe by encouraging rewards and benefits and even admiration or adoration and respect and even more.

But even those who come to choose to identify with the Spirit nature within and learn to serve and to love and who grow in faith and truth...even such one's are susceptible to pride. Even spiritual pride which is but a particular if peculiar flavor and form of simple pride. Even experienced religionists can fall into its grasp...perhaps even they are at greater and growing risk?

Consider that even great and glorious celestials have succumbed to this poison...those without animal natures and heritage and far greater knowledge and experience and objectivity and wisdom...even such ones can fall. To me, this means the risk is real and great.

How does it begin? Where's the seed and what's the source? What's the preventative that innoculates us from such infection and the antidote to cure the infection?

A central issue to consider is objectivity!!! The revelation teaches how critical objectivity is to reality alignment and vice versa. We are told the purpose and power of facts and knowledge of universe reality...to help us gain objectivity in perspective and form philosophy of living life relative to the cosmic realities, not just in scope, scale, and detail but in purpose, plan, priority and free will alignment and choice.

Thus is every material evolutionary world blessed by the celestial presence and example and education provided by epochal revelation. On most worlds each such epochal revelation is added to and incorporated into all the others and prior ones, building up an amazing on planet ministry of leadership and education. Urantia is a beloved and rare exception but still do we have great leadership and ministry and the UB is a gift of epochal revelation filled with facts, details, histories, personalities, origins, destinies, relationships, instruction, and advice for our personal benefit.

To study and learn and understand and apply this information in our lives to gain objectivity and reduce self importance and to grow in the Spirit is a great blessing.

Bradly


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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his topic may be related to the 'I AM',
It is not about what the book says about the first central source, but the simple act of exalting the ego / I AM is possibly the beginning of pride.

It begins with the simple act of saying `` I AM more than others ''
it's just speculation.


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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zack wrote:
his topic may be related to the 'I AM',
It is not about what the book says about the first central source, but the simple act of exalting the ego / I AM is possibly the beginning of pride.

It begins with the simple act of saying `` I AM more than others ''
it's just speculation.


Yes I agree. I think it starts even before "I AM more than others"....I think it starts simply with the "I AM" itself. The awareness of self is powerful. As is the awareness of other than self. And before self. And after self. And prior self. And future self. I AM....what a reality and what a doorway to all else. The source of perspective is me and reality first exist in relation and relative TO me...self. And from the time of me becoming aware of me, I AM and I AM learning how to manipulate the world in my favor and to my benefit. And as I learn to do so and excel at this manipulation of materials, physics, and other persons, I am encouraged and rewarded and praised and protected and even adored.

Now, indeed, do we begin the believe "I AM more than others"....more special and more important....more...better.

Thanks Zack!!!


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I am remembering the spiritual pride of the Apostles, even at the Last Supper. There arguing about relative status in the kingdom in the heart of the Master. Even after multiple rebukes over years of being taught by Jesus about humility and meekness.

167:1.1 (1833.4) There lived in Philadelphia a very wealthy and influential Pharisee who had accepted the teachings of Abner, and who invited Jesus to his house Sabbath morning for breakfast. It was known that Jesus was expected in Philadelphia at this time; so a large number of visitors, among them many Pharisees, had come over from Jerusalem and from elsewhere. Accordingly, about forty of these leading men and a few lawyers were bidden to this breakfast, which had been arranged in honor of the Master.

167:1.2 (1833.5) As Jesus lingered by the door, speaking with Abner, and after the host had seated himself, there came into the room one of the leading Pharisees of Jerusalem, a member of the Sanhedrin, and as was his habit, he made straight for the seat of honor at the left of the host. But since this place had been reserved for the Master and that on the right for Abner, the host beckoned the Jerusalem Pharisee to sit four seats to the left, and this dignitary was much offended because he did not receive the seat of honor.

167:1.5 (1834.3) ..... And since no one would answer him, and inasmuch as his host evidently approved of what was going on, Jesus stood up and spoke to all present: “My brethren, when you are bidden to a marriage feast, sit not down in the chief seat, lest, perchance, a more honored man than you has been invited, and the host will have to come to you and request that you give your place to this other and honored guest. In this event, with shame you will be required to take a lower place at the table. When you are bidden to a feast, it would be the part of wisdom, on arriving at the festive table, to seek for the lowest place and take your seat therein, so that, when the host looks over the guests, he may say to you: ‘My friend, why sit in the seat of the least? come up higher’; and thus will such a one have glory in the presence of his fellow guests. Forget not, every one who exalts himself shall be humbled, while he who truly humbles himself shall be exalted. Therefore, when you entertain at dinner or give a supper, invite not always your friends, your brethren, your kinsmen, or your rich neighbors that they in return may bid you to their feasts, and thus will you be recompensed. When you give a banquet, sometimes bid the poor, the maimed, and the blind. In this way you shall be blessed in your heart, for you well know that the lame and the halt cannot repay you for your loving ministry.” *

1. The Desire for Preference

179:1.1 (1936.6) When the apostles had been shown upstairs by John Mark, they beheld a large and commodious chamber, which was completely furnished for the supper, and observed that the bread, wine, water, and herbs were all in readiness on one end of the table. Except for the end on which rested the bread and wine, this long table was surrounded by thirteen reclining couches, just such as would be provided for the celebration of the Passover in a well-to-do Jewish household.

179:1.2 (1936.7) As the twelve entered this upper chamber, they noticed, just inside the door, the pitchers of water, the basins, and towels for laving their dusty feet; and since no servant had been provided to render this service, the apostles began to look at one another as soon as John Mark had left them, and each began to think within himself, Who shall wash our feet? And each likewise thought that it would not be he who would thus seem to act as the servant of the others.

179:1.3 (1937.1) As they stood there, debating in their hearts, they surveyed the seating arrangement of the table, taking note of the higher divan of the host with one couch on the right and eleven arranged around the table on up to opposite this second seat of honor on the host’s right.

179:1.4 (1937.2) They expected the Master to arrive any moment, but they were in a quandary as to whether they should seat themselves or await his coming and depend on him to assign them their places. While they hesitated, Judas stepped over to the seat of honor, at the left of the host, and signified that he intended there to recline as the preferred guest. This act of Judas immediately stirred up a heated dispute among the other apostles. Judas had no sooner seized the seat of honor than John Zebedee laid claim to the next preferred seat, the one on the right of the host. Simon Peter was so enraged at this assumption of choice positions by Judas and John that, as the other angry apostles looked on, he marched clear around the table and took his place on the lowest couch, the end of the seating order and just opposite to that chosen by John Zebedee. Since others had seized the high seats, Peter thought to choose the lowest, and he did this, not merely in protest against the unseemly pride of his brethren, but with the hope that Jesus, when he should come and see him in the place of least honor, would call him up to a higher one, thus displacing one who had presumed to honor himself.

179:1.5 (1937.3) With the highest and the lowest positions thus occupied, the rest of the apostles chose places, some near Judas and some near Peter, until all were located. They were seated about the U-shaped table on these reclining divans in the following order: on the right of the Master, John; on the left, Judas, Simon Zelotes, Matthew, James Zebedee, Andrew, the Alpheus twins, Philip, Nathaniel, Thomas, and Simon Peter.

179:1.6 (1937.4) They are gathered together to celebrate, at least in spirit, an institution which antedated even Moses and referred to the times when their fathers were slaves in Egypt. This supper is their last rendezvous with Jesus, and even in such a solemn setting, under the leadership of Judas the apostles are led once more to give way to their old predilection for honor, preference, and personal exaltation.

179:1.7 (1937.5) They were still engaged in voicing angry recriminations when the Master appeared in the doorway, where he hesitated a moment as a look of disappointment slowly crept over his face. Without comment he went to his place, and he did not disturb their seating arrangement.

179:1.8 (1937.6) They were now ready to begin the supper, except that their feet were still unwashed, and they were in anything but a pleasant frame of mind. When the Master arrived, they were still engaged in making uncomplimentary remarks about one another, to say nothing of the thoughts of some who had sufficient emotional control to refrain from publicly expressing their feelings.


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 Post subject: Re: Spiritual Pride
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Hi Van:
GREAT TOPIC!!!!!!!
OK, I am really concerned with spiritual pride... mine, that is. It is one of the things about myself which scares me the most.
I cannot speak for anyone else here, but I KNOW I catch myself all the time thinking how "enlightened" I am compared with the (fill in the blank) types.
For me, it comes from having an extremely entitled upbringing, combined with discovering the most amazing spiritual awakening in 2000 yeas at a tender and vulnerable age. Honestly, its something I may never get over.
You know how the Authors mention that there are those whose spiritual handicaps will leave them retarded as compared with the rest of their fellows, even into eternity? A lot of times I feel that they are speaking about me. And its my spiritual pride which is holding me back.
This is a rough planet to be from. And sometimes the ones who are the worst affected (spiritually) are those who's outward physical well being appears to be the best (or at least on the better side).
Spiritual pride will be the downfall, or at least the retardation of a lot of otherwise great souls. Everyone in this forum needs to take a serious look inwards at themselves before accusing another of this most nefarious malady.
I guess that is why I get so upset at the "squabbling" which I said goes on here. For me, its like looking into a mirror.
Thanks for letting me vent, Van.


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fanofVan wrote:
I am remembering the spiritual pride of the Apostles, even at the Last Supper. There arguing about relative status in the kingdom in the heart of the Master. Even after multiple rebukes over years of being taught by Jesus about humility and meekness.

167:1.1 (1833.4) There lived in Philadelphia a very wealthy and influential Pharisee who had accepted the teachings of Abner, and who invited Jesus to his house Sabbath morning for breakfast. It was known that Jesus was expected in Philadelphia at this time; so a large number of visitors, among them many Pharisees, had come over from Jerusalem and from elsewhere. Accordingly, about forty of these leading men and a few lawyers were bidden to this breakfast, which had been arranged in honor of the Master.

167:1.2 (1833.5) As Jesus lingered by the door, speaking with Abner, and after the host had seated himself, there came into the room one of the leading Pharisees of Jerusalem, a member of the Sanhedrin, and as was his habit, he made straight for the seat of honor at the left of the host. But since this place had been reserved for the Master and that on the right for Abner, the host beckoned the Jerusalem Pharisee to sit four seats to the left, and this dignitary was much offended because he did not receive the seat of honor.

167:1.5 (1834.3) ..... And since no one would answer him, and inasmuch as his host evidently approved of what was going on, Jesus stood up and spoke to all present: “My brethren, when you are bidden to a marriage feast, sit not down in the chief seat, lest, perchance, a more honored man than you has been invited, and the host will have to come to you and request that you give your place to this other and honored guest. In this event, with shame you will be required to take a lower place at the table. When you are bidden to a feast, it would be the part of wisdom, on arriving at the festive table, to seek for the lowest place and take your seat therein, so that, when the host looks over the guests, he may say to you: ‘My friend, why sit in the seat of the least? come up higher’; and thus will such a one have glory in the presence of his fellow guests. Forget not, every one who exalts himself shall be humbled, while he who truly humbles himself shall be exalted. Therefore, when you entertain at dinner or give a supper, invite not always your friends, your brethren, your kinsmen, or your rich neighbors that they in return may bid you to their feasts, and thus will you be recompensed. When you give a banquet, sometimes bid the poor, the maimed, and the blind. In this way you shall be blessed in your heart, for you well know that the lame and the halt cannot repay you for your loving ministry.” *

1. The Desire for Preference

179:1.1 (1936.6) When the apostles had been shown upstairs by John Mark, they beheld a large and commodious chamber, which was completely furnished for the supper, and observed that the bread, wine, water, and herbs were all in readiness on one end of the table. Except for the end on which rested the bread and wine, this long table was surrounded by thirteen reclining couches, just such as would be provided for the celebration of the Passover in a well-to-do Jewish household.

179:1.2 (1936.7) As the twelve entered this upper chamber, they noticed, just inside the door, the pitchers of water, the basins, and towels for laving their dusty feet; and since no servant had been provided to render this service, the apostles began to look at one another as soon as John Mark had left them, and each began to think within himself, Who shall wash our feet? And each likewise thought that it would not be he who would thus seem to act as the servant of the others.

179:1.3 (1937.1) As they stood there, debating in their hearts, they surveyed the seating arrangement of the table, taking note of the higher divan of the host with one couch on the right and eleven arranged around the table on up to opposite this second seat of honor on the host’s right.

179:1.4 (1937.2) They expected the Master to arrive any moment, but they were in a quandary as to whether they should seat themselves or await his coming and depend on him to assign them their places. While they hesitated, Judas stepped over to the seat of honor, at the left of the host, and signified that he intended there to recline as the preferred guest. This act of Judas immediately stirred up a heated dispute among the other apostles. Judas had no sooner seized the seat of honor than John Zebedee laid claim to the next preferred seat, the one on the right of the host. Simon Peter was so enraged at this assumption of choice positions by Judas and John that, as the other angry apostles looked on, he marched clear around the table and took his place on the lowest couch, the end of the seating order and just opposite to that chosen by John Zebedee. Since others had seized the high seats, Peter thought to choose the lowest, and he did this, not merely in protest against the unseemly pride of his brethren, but with the hope that Jesus, when he should come and see him in the place of least honor, would call him up to a higher one, thus displacing one who had presumed to honor himself.

179:1.5 (1937.3) With the highest and the lowest positions thus occupied, the rest of the apostles chose places, some near Judas and some near Peter, until all were located. They were seated about the U-shaped table on these reclining divans in the following order: on the right of the Master, John; on the left, Judas, Simon Zelotes, Matthew, James Zebedee, Andrew, the Alpheus twins, Philip, Nathaniel, Thomas, and Simon Peter.

179:1.6 (1937.4) They are gathered together to celebrate, at least in spirit, an institution which antedated even Moses and referred to the times when their fathers were slaves in Egypt. This supper is their last rendezvous with Jesus, and even in such a solemn setting, under the leadership of Judas the apostles are led once more to give way to their old predilection for honor, preference, and personal exaltation.

179:1.7 (1937.5) They were still engaged in voicing angry recriminations when the Master appeared in the doorway, where he hesitated a moment as a look of disappointment slowly crept over his face. Without comment he went to his place, and he did not disturb their seating arrangement.

179:1.8 (1937.6) They were now ready to begin the supper, except that their feet were still unwashed, and they were in anything but a pleasant frame of mind. When the Master arrived, they were still engaged in making uncomplimentary remarks about one another, to say nothing of the thoughts of some who had sufficient emotional control to refrain from publicly expressing their feelings.



excellent paragraphs, fanofvan


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Thanks Zach!!!

I think the UB speaks so much better for itself than I or most people ever could. That's why I prefer posting text and those who do as we consider topics and teachings.

While my own philosophy of living and universe perspective have shifted over the decades in response to this book of cosmological presentations on history, origin, destiny, plan, purpose, and the art of religious living and the task of spiritual growth, I still am thrilled to discover new meanings in old facts and well worn and often read pages of this book of knowledge and truth.

Some here appear very impatient with what they consider a narrow perspective or fundamentalism on my part simply because I have come to believe the UB is what it claims to be and believe that the authors wrote what they intended to say and said what they meant to say as literally and clearly and redundantly as they could as limited by the failings of language to convey such a deep and rich presentation of so many new concepts and so much new information in a way that captures the imagination and thrills the mind and leads us forward into discovery and an ever growing appreciation for our own lives and our world and fellow beings and the grandeur and scale of the cosmos and its friendly nature and God's great love and power to spread that love throughout eternity and infinity!!

I think the UB should be studied and known and recited and referenced from end to end and shared with the world to which it was gifted and interpreted as little as possible to present it as it is for each of us to discover in our own time and way!! Glad you are here!

And I'm with you Al !!

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Pride is one of those personally inherent results of immature personality itself I think. We are a person, a self, with identity and with mind. With mind comes the need for knowledge and a built in curiosity. When I say need, I mean a real true need, a hunger and a thirst. Our mind is designed to learn and to understand and to know...to discover and to figure things out. One of the earliest sources of pride is simply learning something or doing something we did not know and could not do before. Pride also derives from vanity and ambition as well as actual achievement and accomplishment.

Pride is very beguiling and deceitful we are taught. Pride is one of those transitional and evolutionary steps that helps people to become more than animals but requires spiritualization to tame, harness, and direct it appropriately. True awareness should teach us that all people achieve and all people are family and God's children and that it is our concerns and efforts on behalf of others that truly delivers peace and happiness and spiritization. It is the management of one's self and experiential maturity and wisdom that tames pride and it is relationship with the Spirit that delivers humility. But such humility as spiritual transformation delivers is not debilitating or humiliating or based on shame....it is based on the reality perspective of creator and created, of the equal standing that all God's children enjoy.

No matter what we learn about or learn to do or accomplish, we are but little children in comparison to so many others and so small compared to so much more. As we learn to help and love one another, we become more than self and the function of pride gives way to the function of love, truth, beauty, and goodness. We still discover, learn, accomplish, improve, and perfect and so nothing of true meaning or value is forsaken as we mature and grow wiser and expand perspective.

But how then is it that even those who gain spiritualization or even universe leadership and honor and are given great responsibilities and duties of loyalty and faithful expressions of such positions of trust - how is it even such ones fall in disgrace due to spiritual pride. Pride is easier to consider and to manage I think when it is an immature expression of self importance. But what of that poison that comes later? Is it a residual and lurking shadow of self that always accompanies us? Or does it appear where once it has been vanquished? It is told to us that Lucifer (and I believe Satan and Caligastia, etc.) did not appear to be tainted by pride prior to a short time before rebellion. It appeared one day, in some small insidious way to grow and grow into the blinding monstrosity that suddenly became betrayal and disloyalty and totally self destructive.

As Brother Al says, this is frightening to consider!!! From Shintoism comes: 131:7.3 (1451.3) “‘Every time man yields to anxiety, he takes one step away from the leading of the spirit of his heart.’ Pride obscures God. If you would obtain heavenly help, put away your pride; every hair of pride shuts off saving light, as it were, by a great cloud..."

So pride cuts off from light of truth and from the influence and presence of God and Spirit. When we begin to allow self admiration and self importance to motivate or guide us, we are moving away from the Spirit and from reality - we begin sliding away from light and into the shadows. We become seduced and drugged or drunk with this childish self confidence in our own beliefs and our own priorities and begin to look down on the beliefs of others who disagree with us and then are deceived enough to look down on their person as well as their beliefs so that those who disagree with us become more and more inferior to us and compared to us....but it is far worse than that....for we cannot make others inferior to us or less important without the other end of the fulcrum's response....such opinions are self elevating at the same time!!! A low opinion of others cannot come without a corresponding better opinion of ourselves!!

This is how spiritual pride deceives and takes over. As our own perspective, philosophy, and beliefs are elevated compared to others....others become less and less important while we become more and more important.

One of the greatest causes of and perpetuators of spiritual pride is the adoration of others!! Even if well informed, and often its not so well informed, the adoration of others can have a very inflating, if poisonous, effect on self. Whether such adoration is well earned by noble pursuit and accomplishment or whether populism comes to us by money or fame or power of another form, it is easy to begin to believe our own press so to speak and become self deceived and deluded and beguiled by the adoration of other people. I think it reminds many of us our childhoods...those we had or those we missed....the adoration of the tribe which encourages children to try and to try again and to aspire and to achieve is powerful in its presence and in its absence!! Some of us learn to live for the approval and adoration of others....no matter what we must do to acquire those.

53:2.5 (603.1) It is very difficult to point out the exact cause or causes which finally culminated in the Lucifer rebellion. We are certain of only one thing, and that is: Whatever these first beginnings were, they had their origin in Lucifer’s mind. There must have been a pride of self that nourished itself to the point of self-deception, so that Lucifer for a time really persuaded himself that his contemplation of rebellion was actually for the good of the system, if not of the universe. By the time his plans had developed to the point of disillusionment, no doubt he had gone too far for his original and mischief-making pride to permit him to stop. At some point in this experience he became insincere, and evil evolved into deliberate and willful sin. That this happened is proved by the subsequent conduct of this brilliant executive. He was long offered opportunity for repentance, but only some of his subordinates ever accepted the proffered mercy. The Faithful of Days of Edentia, on the request of the Constellation Fathers, in person presented the plan of Michael for the saving of these flagrant rebels, but always was the mercy of the Creator Son rejected and rejected with increasing contempt and disdain.

66:1.5 (741.7) I was present on Jerusem when the brilliant Caligastia departed from the system capital. No prince of the planets ever embarked upon a career of world rulership with a richer preparatory experience or with better prospects than did Caligastia on that eventful day one-half million years ago. One thing is certain: As I executed my assignment of putting the narrative of that event on the broadcasts of the local universe, I never for one moment entertained even in the slightest degree any idea that this noble Lanonandek would so shortly betray his sacred trust of planetary custody and so horribly stain the fair name of his exalted order of universe sonship. I really regarded Urantia as being among the five or six most fortunate planets in all Satania in that it was to have such an experienced, brilliant, and original mind at the helm of world affairs. I did not then comprehend that Caligastia was insidiously falling in love with himself; I did not then so fully understand the subtleties of personality pride.

66:8.2 (752.3) It should be noted that both Lucifer and Caligastia had been patiently instructed and lovingly warned respecting their critical tendencies and the subtle development of their pride of self and its associated exaggeration of the feeling of self-importance. But all of these attempts to help had been misconstrued as unwarranted criticism and as unjustified interference with personal liberties. Both Caligastia and Lucifer judged their friendly advisers as being actuated by the very reprehensible motives which were beginning to dominate their own distorted thinking and misguided planning. They judged their unselfish advisers by their own evolving selfishness.


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Since I was the one who made the comment resulting in this thread I would like to make it clear that I posted that comment out of desperation, and though my intention was not to offend or hurt anyone's feelings I apologize if anyone else was adversely affected by my emotional outburst.


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pethuel wrote:
Since I was the one who made the comment resulting in this thread I would like to make it clear that I posted that comment out of desperation, and though my intention was not to offend or hurt anyone's feelings I apologize if anyone else was adversely affected by my emotional outburst.


Thanks pethuel...no harm and no foul....we're all entitled to our opinions and expressions.

I hope you will consider chiming in on the topic. I did not mean to use you in any way or embarrass you or call you out or anything of the sort. I was not offended or hurt.

It's a fascinating topic and your post was merely the trigger to start a conversation. Certainly disagreements here can sometimes demonstrate arrogance, pride, prejudice, etc. but being merely contentious in disagreement is also uncomfortable for some but is none of those offences. Personally, I am here to learn about the Revelation and not attend a tea party for conflict avoiders to feel comfortable at table. Sorry if my directness and occasional crudeness and clumsiness make others uncomfortable....but you're going to have to get used to it I'm afraid....until I learn far more about graciousness.

Regardless of all that, I don't take well to the direct and deliberate contradiction and falsification of the text I am here to study by those not-new students who should know better by now.


:wink: 8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:41 pm +0000, edited 4 times in total.

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fanofVan wrote:
pethuel wrote:
Since I was the one who made the comment resulting in this thread I would like to make it clear that I posted that comment out of desperation, and though my intention was not to offend or hurt anyone's feelings I apologize if anyone else was adversely affected by my emotional outburst.


Thanks pethuel...no harm and no foul....we're all entitled to our opinions and expressions.

I hope you will consider chiming in on the topic. I did not mean to use you in any way or embarrass you or call you out or anything of the sort. I was not offended or hurt.

It's a fascinating topic and your post was merely the trigger to start a conversation. Certainly disagreements here can sometimes demonstrate arrogance, pride, prejudice, etc. but being merely contentious in disagreement is also uncomfortable for some but is none of those offences. Personally, I am here to learn about the Revelation and not attend a tea party for conflict avoiders to feel comfortable at table. Sorry if my directness and occasional crudeness and clumsiness make others uncomfortable....but you're going to have to get used to it I'm afraid....until I learn far more about graciousness.

I don't take well to the direct and deliberate contradiction of the text I am here to study by those not-new students who should know better by now.

:wink: 8)


I think I may have chimed in enough already Bradly... thanks for your concern but I wasn't embarrassed nor did I feel used by you making a thread specifically about the elephant in the room. My wish is that we acknowledge that the elephant is there, and if I may resort to some "folk wisdom": "The only thing an argument proves is that there are at least two people present" "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

From the Papers we have many excellent examples of how the Master lovingly responded to erroneous doctrine or thought and Machiventa Melchizedek also showed amazing restraint in his patient teaching.

I don't think anyone should have to "get used to" occasional crudeness and clumsiness in this forum, rather those who resort to crudeness and clumsiness in making their point have to get used to not yielding to the impulse to belittle others or insult their intelligence. Cynical comments and psychological browbeating are a habit and habits can be broken with time and patience, and red lights, sirens and alarms should go off in our minds when we take a step in that direction.

You were right in saying that I was also manifesting spiritual pride in my rant, I lost my temper and obviously the results were far less than ideal, and the old adage "when you point the finger at someone else you have three pointing back at you" definitely held true in my bad example. As it says in the book of James in the New Testament

"But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom."

I can't help but think that James learned these lessons after repeatedly taking his foot out of his mouth. A wise person put it to me bluntly but lovingly when he said "If you feel pleasure when correcting someone in a fault then you are yielding to spiritual pride." That was a landmark in my journey and even though I often fall short it does not diminish the value of the lesson.

Thanks again for your many good posts and teaching from which we all benefit! Disagreements of interpretation are inevitable, but we can maintain civility without yielding a point of discussion. Wackos, weirdos and intentional sowers of discord will be effectively handled by the moderators who have done an excellent job.


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pethuel wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
pethuel wrote:
Since I was the one who made the comment resulting in this thread I would like to make it clear that I posted that comment out of desperation, and though my intention was not to offend or hurt anyone's feelings I apologize if anyone else was adversely affected by my emotional outburst.


Thanks pethuel...no harm and no foul....we're all entitled to our opinions and expressions.

I hope you will consider chiming in on the topic. I did not mean to use you in any way or embarrass you or call you out or anything of the sort. I was not offended or hurt.

It's a fascinating topic and your post was merely the trigger to start a conversation. Certainly disagreements here can sometimes demonstrate arrogance, pride, prejudice, etc. but being merely contentious in disagreement is also uncomfortable for some but is none of those offences. Personally, I am here to learn about the Revelation and not attend a tea party for conflict avoiders to feel comfortable at table. Sorry if my directness and occasional crudeness and clumsiness make others uncomfortable....but you're going to have to get used to it I'm afraid....until I learn far more about graciousness.

I don't take well to the direct and deliberate contradiction of the text I am here to study by those not-new students who should know better by now.

:wink: 8)


I think I may have chimed in enough already Bradly... thanks for your concern but I wasn't embarrassed nor did I feel used by you making a thread specifically about the elephant in the room. My wish is that we acknowledge that the elephant is there, and if I may resort to some "folk wisdom": "The only thing an argument proves is that there are at least two people present" "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

From the Papers we have many excellent examples of how the Master lovingly responded to erroneous doctrine or thought and Machiventa Melchizedek also showed amazing restraint in his patient teaching.

I don't think anyone should have to "get used to" occasional crudeness and clumsiness in this forum, rather those who resort to crudeness and clumsiness in making their point have to get used to not yielding to the impulse to belittle others or insult their intelligence. Cynical comments and psychological browbeating are a habit and habits can be broken with time and patience, and red lights, sirens and alarms should go off in our minds when we take a step in that direction.

You were right in saying that I was also manifesting spiritual pride in my rant, I lost my temper and obviously the results were far less than ideal, and the old adage "when you point the finger at someone else you have three pointing back at you" definitely held true in my bad example. As it says in the book of James in the New Testament

"But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom."

I can't help but think that James learned these lessons after repeatedly taking his foot out of his mouth. A wise person put it to me bluntly but lovingly when he said "If you feel pleasure when correcting someone in a fault then you are yielding to spiritual pride." That was a landmark in my journey and even though I often fall short it does not diminish the value of the lesson.

Thanks again for your many good posts and teaching from which we all benefit! Disagreements of interpretation are inevitable, but we can maintain civility without yielding a point of discussion. Wackos, weirdos and intentional sowers of discord will be effectively handled by the moderators who have done an excellent job.


Well said, and in prideless good humor.



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Pethuel says above: "I don't think anyone should have to "get used to" occasional crudeness and clumsiness in this forum, rather those who resort to crudeness and clumsiness in making their point have to get used to not yielding to the impulse to belittle others or insult their intelligence. Cynical comments and psychological browbeating are a habit and habits can be broken with time and patience, and red lights, sirens and alarms should go off in our minds when we take a step in that direction."

A most interesting lament....but I'm afraid we really do have to "get used to" lots of things, especially the choices and behaviors of others. Did the Apostles change? Even for Jesus? Did Jesus hold grudges of disappointment against others, including the Apostles?

The only other option is constant self superiority and disappointment in others. Think about it.

Your disappointments are yours to manage....and mine are my own. We are not in charge of others or instructed to change others or constantly complain about others. We are quite successful and busy if we are in charge of ourselves...hahaha.

We can wish others acted like JC....but we shouldn't be surprised, disappointed, or act superior because others act more like the Apostles. Thus the parable of the beam.

Jesus loved the Apostles the way they were. Warts, bad breath, stubborn vices and bad habits and all. We must learn to do this as well. Sorry. But its true. Complaining about others merely demonstrates a lack of understanding of freewill and our own needs to grow beyond our current and limited abilities to view reality and the challenges we face in spiritization and socialization both.

Nope...like it or not we just have to learn to love people the way we find them and not according to the changes we demand and preferences we hold. That's not our choice. We don't get that choice. If we learn only to love those who agree with us and are agreeable to us, we will not love very many!! Nor will we be loved by many.

We have a poster here who is constantly comparing herself favorably to Jesus....hahaha. And another who subtly but persistently shares his low opinion of others compared to his own superior spiritualization. Both often complain about others and yet are blind to their own spiritual pride and laughable superiority displayed for all by such posts. They are blind to their own immaturities and weaknesses. As we all so often are. I have much to improve and correct in my own behaviors and choices - those I can see and those the beam has me blinded to. I work on them all the time and still there is more and more to do.

I am grateful for this place to share in the discovery and study of this awesome textbook of fact and truth. Personal perfection will take a little longer still I imagine. In the meantime, let us learn to get along better and to share and care more!!


A very sticky wicket to consider and manage. For all those who complain about the behaviors of others, perhaps it is themselves in the greater need for improvement in patience, forgiveness, tolerance, and long suffering. Paradoxical even!

And so topical!! 8)

:biggrin:

sanctimonious


ADJECTIVE

making a show of being morally superior to other people.

synonyms:

self-righteous · holier-than-thou · churchy · pious · pietistic · moralizing · unctuous · smug · superior · priggish · mealy-mouthed · hypocritical · insincere · for form's sake · to keep up appearances · goody-goody · pi · religiose · Pharisaic · Pharisaical 


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rick warren wrote:
Well said, and in prideless good humor.


Were that humor was a sufficient antidote when the cupboard is nearly bare of sincerity. The dissolution of personality and slow suffocation of the soul that are the inevitable result of runaway pride is nothing to laugh about.

There has been talk about fear recently. On retrospect I can definitely say that I have no fear of mountains. I love them. But I am afraid of heights. When I’m climbing on a dangerous slab of rock or ice I’m 100% focused on not making an error that would lead to death. Would I wish away that mental protection? Not at all. I might not be alive today without it.

Pride goes hand in hand with betrayal. Before unbridled pride has reached a certain momentum a person may have many loyalties. Apparently pride and arrogance lead a person to believe they are above error. They have lost all fear, so to say, of making a mistake and even seeing that they have made a mistake.

Did Judas take pride in his betrayal or was he simply oblivious to the fact that he betrayed not only his friend and teacher but the very loyalties his soul was fabricated on?

But to essentials: isn’t the cause of excessive pride the inability to love others and to grow in doing so? The root of love is the willingness to understand and empathize with someone, or at least the openness to try to understand.

100:4:6 (1098.3) It is not so important to love all men today as it is that each day you learn to love one more human being. If each day or each week you achieve an understanding of one more of your fellows, and if this is the limit of your ability, then you are certainly socializing and truly spiritualizing your personality.


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