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The power to choose evil increases, as we become more and more aware of the evil that we are actually capable of. So in theory, having more free will probably indicates intellectual gain, social power, priveleges status of civil liberties, but along with these gains in life comes virtue and ethos, an intention of wanting to use your liberty for the betterment of mankind. If you are the first worker in a new Supreme pattern, well maybe it is a fact that if you fall out, then someone has to pick up the slack. However, if you do not actually love what you do, then you must question whether you are simply abiding in the rules of society in order to reap your own share in it. But I will contend that having more spirituality means more free will, more opportunity to have relative choices in actual terms, which also reflect morality and personality (well character if not personality).

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brooklyn_born wrote:
katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
evil is a reality in time and space, not in eternity. You lose the freedom to choose evil. It no longer exists in eternity. Our will is changed from mortal free will to deity will.


I've often wondered about that but then found this reference which informs us that the potential for evil exists until we reach final spirit status.

(1458:3) 132:2.6 As you ascend the universe scale of creature development, you will find increasing goodness and diminishing evil in perfect accordance with your capacity for goodness-experience and truth-discernment. The ability to entertain error or experience evil will not be fully lost until the ascending human soul achieves final spirit levels.


Exactly and absolutely! On Paradise. It. Ends.


So what happens when finaliters leave Paradise and are returned to the worlds of time and space for service. Do they do so as automatons? A chunk of living machinery?


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
The power to choose evil increases, as we become more and more aware of the evil that we are actually capable of. So in theory, having more free will probably indicates intellectual gain, social power, priveleges status of civil liberties, but along with these gains in life comes virtue and ethos, an intention of wanting to use your liberty for the betterment of mankind. If you are the first worker in a new Supreme pattern, well maybe it is a fact that if you fall out, then someone has to pick up the slack. However, if you do not actually love what you do, then you must question whether you are simply abiding in the rules of society in order to reap your own share in it. But I will contend that having more spirituality means more free will, more opportunity to have relative choices in actual terms, which also reflect morality and personality (well character if not personality).


I don't know why you make such a claim...seems illogical. We grow in wisdom over time by the experience of our choices. Why then would anyone 'choose' evil or have more potential to do so? How do you define the term evil anyway? The UB says it is error and ignorance and inexperience but we are becoming more experienced by prior error to choose with less and less error.

I've been thinking a lot about BB's claim and premise here and have concluded his question is quite logical and reasonable based on the reality and premise I wrote above....there is less and less spectrum or amount of error to choose from over time and perfecting as we gain experiential wisdom. There are more and more choices we will NOT choose or no longer choose due to experience and prior repercussions suffered and/or witnessed by certain choices made in error. So it is logical that this reduces the 'range' or spectrum of choice....there are fewer choices and options and therefore we "lose free will as we become more spiritual" per BB's question and claims here. BB goes so far as to assume and propose that by the act of perfecting, that range reduces to zero eventually...we run out of choices once we become spiritized sufficiently and wise enough.

My initial reaction (over-reaction?) has been delivered by the fact that we mortals and all personalities never lose free will and we never become mindless automatons and minions of some overlord ruling hordes of adoring but unthinking masses. Individuality is important to me. I think it is to every being with personality. I think this is inherent to personality...and to God. There is only one God...and there is only one me...and there is only one you...and there is only one of us each and all. This is a very important teaching in the Papers. The Revelation not only tells us this is true, it tells us why it is so. It is God's will that it is so. It is God's way that it is so. It is the very essence of the Supreme. The unique experience and expressions of truth, beauty, and goodness personalized. That is the key term here - personalized. We are having experiences and giving expressions that belong not only to us individually but belong to God as well and through God belong to all of us in total. Free will is essential and vital and the source of all such personalization and so will never end. Or be reduced.

But what about the range and spectrum of choice? Doesn't it diminish? Don't we have fewer choices to choose from as we eliminate options from our choice palette by experience and wisdom? No. Choice never diminishes. Because the errors that are removed from our spectrum of choice are replaced by at least as many new choices...the growing range and spectrum of better choices!! We must eventually come to realize and face the reality that our growing wisdom really results in more choices to choose from. And these choices get more interesting and more challenging. Choosing right over wrong is but the foundational beginnings of free will choice...the obvious spectrum of choice. The less obvious options are the endless configurations of timing, strategy, and tactic to choose from at all the same intersections of choice where once upon a time only right and wrong were chosen from.

One day we will look back at this time of choosing and reminisce of those times when choice was so black and white, so obvious, and driven primarily by our dual nature. I am reminded of the many choices of our Master during his life here. How much thought he had to give to so many choices he made that had so many options to choose and so many different potential outcomes and the great wisdom he applied. There are also the great decisions made by him prior to coming here and in the Perean Hills. So calculating and configuring. Like an intricate and living chess board with all these moving pieces, many being moved by others in their own unpredictable free will fashion always upsetting and rearranging trajectories and timing and outcomes. All of time and all choices in time are made in one moment of reality that immediately changes in countless ways and does so endlessly. Nothing is truly predictable in outcome by any of our choices.

And yet there are choices that are always better than others. Choices which depend upon and rely upon and accept and expect the will of God and the hand of God to eventuate good motive and wisdom into positive outcome. We cast the bread upon the water for God to deliver the effects. But how wise is the bread cast? For it could always be wiser....and wiser....and still wiser. Just ask the Creator/Master Son of our universe!! For his choices were not so easy to choose or to make and by their experience did Michael become even wiser and end up with even more choices and greater free will to make choices and to seek ever greater wisdom with even more choices with his free will.

One last point, for now....every free will choice that is true, beautiful, or good sets off an endless chain reaction of new potential. The endless chain of choices being made in time and space are creating a growing spectrum of good and better choices and options for our free will decisions. There are an ever growing number of pending intersections of decision and relationship that each delivers another opportunity for another being to make another choice of free will even more wisely than all the choices that being has made before. Experiential wisdom for all beings that are not God is an endless function of reality....it is a result but it is a result without end.

So....we do not lose free will. Neither do we lose choices from which to choose. We gain those. The better we choose and the more choices we make, the more choice we face to improve our choosing. This is the adventure of uncertainty of outcome and the freedom to choose and apply our free will. This is God's will....and WAY.

Peace....indeed.

Bradly :idea: :smile: 8)


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brooklyn_born wrote:
katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
evil is a reality in time and space, not in eternity. You lose the freedom to choose evil. It no longer exists in eternity. Our will is changed from mortal free will to deity will.


I've often wondered about that but then found this reference which informs us that the potential for evil exists until we reach final spirit status.

(1458:3) 132:2.6 As you ascend the universe scale of creature development, you will find increasing goodness and diminishing evil in perfect accordance with your capacity for goodness-experience and truth-discernment. The ability to entertain error or experience evil will not be fully lost until the ascending human soul achieves final spirit levels.


Exactly and absolutely! On Paradise. It. Ends.


Kat replies: "So what happens when finaliters leave Paradise and are returned to the worlds of time and space for service. Do they do so as automatons? A chunk of living machinery?"

Yes kat….pretty silly...and so contrary to the UB's promise of endless adventure! We will learn to feast on uncertainty and fatten on disappointment but there will be no choices? Hahahaha.

The UB teaches us that as we are mustered into the Corps of Finality or choose other service prior to that choice, we have only perfected our motives - not our beings or wisdom or choices!!! How do we continue to gain experiential wisdom if we no longer have free will? What and when is the end of potential? Eternity in God's universe has no end of potential and actualization of potential which always creates new and evermore potential!

BB apparently assumes the universe is a zero sum reality that seeks out and will achieve a stasis or a stable and static reality. This is not the case. The universe of universes is mechanism and organism of perpetual growth with endless actualization and realization of prior potential resulting in an endless amount of new potential for realization which will and can only produce more of the same....infinitely and eternally.


The heaven of evolutionary religion that is perfect and settled and unchanging does exist but it is the heart and creative center of endless change and growth and perfecting that is the adventure of eternity. Or so I understand it.


Last edited by fanofVan on Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:28 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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They have found oneness with deity. Complete allegiance to eternal deities. There is a reference in TUB that speaks of uncharted universes or something to that effect and Finaliters will play a role in creation in those worlds.


katroofjebus wrote:
So what happens when finaliters leave Paradise and are returned to the worlds of time and space for service. Do they do so as automatons? A chunk of living machinery?

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foV, I am going to block you again. I have little patience for the personal attacks.



fanofVan wrote:

BB illogically and by immature inexperience and disbelief in the promises of the Revelation (?) assumes the universe is a zero sum reality that seeks out and will achieve a stasis or a stable and static reality. This is not the case. The universe of universes is mechanism and organism of perpetual growth with endless actualization and realization of prior potential resulting in an endless amount of new potential for realization which will and can only produce more of the same....infinitely and eternally.


The heaven of evolutionary religion that is perfect and settled and unchanging does exist but it is the heart and creative center of endless change and growth and perfecting that is the adventure of eternity. Or so I understand it.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
foV, I am going to block you again. I have little patience for the personal attacks.



fanofVan wrote:

BB illogically and by immature inexperience and disbelief in the promises of the Revelation (?) assumes the universe is a zero sum reality that seeks out and will achieve a stasis or a stable and static reality. This is not the case. The universe of universes is mechanism and organism of perpetual growth with endless actualization and realization of prior potential resulting in an endless amount of new potential for realization which will and can only produce more of the same....infinitely and eternally.


The heaven of evolutionary religion that is perfect and settled and unchanging does exist but it is the heart and creative center of endless change and growth and perfecting that is the adventure of eternity. Or so I understand it.


Yes..inappropriate. My bad. Post has been edited.


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Thank you.


fanofVan wrote:
Yes..inappropriate. My bad. Post has been edited.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
They have found oneness with deity. Complete allegiance to eternal deities.


Finaliters are fused with their Adjusters in an associative partnership. The hosting personality continues to outrank the Adjuster in the ability to choose. The oneness has more to do with the lack of need for formal communication between the two partners due to an understanding rather than submission or yielding. Take note of the next reference which describes fused Adjusters as eternity partners who follow the course of the ascendant being. The hosting personality remains at the helm and the hosting personality is the one with the power of choice.

(1179.1) 107:2.7 6.Fused Adjusters—finaliters—those who have become one with the ascending creatures of the superuniverses, the eternity partners of the time ascenders of the Paradise Corps of the Finality. Thought Adjusters ordinarily become fused with the ascending mortals of time, and with such surviving mortals they are registered in and out of Ascendington; they follow the course of ascendant beings. Upon fusion with the ascending evolutionary soul, it appears that the Adjuster translates from the absolute existential level of the universe to the finite experiential level of functional association with an ascending personality. While retaining all of the character of the existential divine nature, a fused Adjuster becomes indissolubly linked with the ascending career of a surviving mortal.

Here is another reference to the partnership:

(1238.6) 112.7.11  On the Adjuster-fusion worlds the destiny of the Mystery Monitor is identical with that of the ascending mortal — the Paradise Corps of the Finality. And neither Adjuster nor mortal can attain that unique goal without the full co-operation and faithful help of the other. This extraordinary partnership is one of the most engrossing and amazing of all the cosmic phenomena of this universe age.

Please read here again where it explains that after fusion everything that was part of the Adjuster becomes the possession of the ascending personality, but only that part of the Adjuster which is appropriate for the universe level it is functioning on. As the ascending personality goes to Paradise and leaves Paradise, new attributes are provided to the personality from the Adjuster. This means that the two partners never achieve absolute oneness.

(1212.5) 110.7.4  Subsequent to mortal fusion the Adjusters share your destiny and experience; they are you. After the fusion of the immortal morontia soul and the associated Adjuster, all of the experience and all of the values of the one eventually become the possession of the other, so that the two are actually one entity. In a certain sense, this new being is of the eternal past as well as for the eternal future. All that was once human in the surviving soul and all that is experientially divine in the Adjuster now become the actual possession of the new and ever-ascending universe personality. But on each universe level the Adjuster can endow the new creature only with those attributes which are meaningful and of value on that level. An absolute oneness with the divine Monitor, a complete exhaustion of the endowment of an Adjuster, can only be achieved in eternity subsequent to the final attainment of the Universal Father, the Father of spirits, ever the source of these divine gifts.

brooklyn_born wrote:
There is a reference in TUB that speaks of uncharted universes or something to that effect and Finaliters will play a role in creation in those worlds


The finaliters return to the seven superuniverses to serve other ascenders. They will not have anything to do in outer space realms until after the full emergence of the Supreme Being when all finite potentials have become actual and a whole new source of absonite potentials become available for actualization.

(345.10) 31:0.10 During the present universe age the finaliters return to serve in the universes of time. They are assigned to labor successively in the different superuniverses and never in their native superuniverses until after they have served in all the other six supercreations. Thus may they acquire the sevenfold concept of the Supreme Being.


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katroofjebus, we're pretty much saying the same thing but from different points of view or, better yet, different revelations, points of view. TAs are a diety-personality level of the Father. Fusion is oneness with deity.

katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
They have found oneness with deity. Complete allegiance to eternal deities.


Finaliters are fused with their Adjusters in an associative partnership. The hosting personality continues to outrank the Adjuster in the ability to choose. The oneness has more to do with the lack of need for formal communication between the two partners due to an understanding rather than submission or yielding. Take note of the next reference which describes fused Adjusters as eternity partners who follow the course of the ascendant being. The hosting personality remains at the helm and the hosting personality is the one with the power of choice.

(1179.1) 107:2.7 6.Fused Adjusters—finaliters—those who have become one with the ascending creatures of the superuniverses, the eternity partners of the time ascenders of the Paradise Corps of the Finality. Thought Adjusters ordinarily become fused with the ascending mortals of time, and with such surviving mortals they are registered in and out of Ascendington; they follow the course of ascendant beings. Upon fusion with the ascending evolutionary soul, it appears that the Adjuster translates from the absolute existential level of the universe to the finite experiential level of functional association with an ascending personality. While retaining all of the character of the existential divine nature, a fused Adjuster becomes indissolubly linked with the ascending career of a surviving mortal.

Here is another reference to the partnership:

(1238.6) 112.7.11  On the Adjuster-fusion worlds the destiny of the Mystery Monitor is identical with that of the ascending mortal — the Paradise Corps of the Finality. And neither Adjuster nor mortal can attain that unique goal without the full co-operation and faithful help of the other. This extraordinary partnership is one of the most engrossing and amazing of all the cosmic phenomena of this universe age.

Please read here again where it explains that after fusion everything that was part of the Adjuster becomes the possession of the ascending personality, but only that part of the Adjuster which is appropriate for the universe level it is functioning on. As the ascending personality goes to Paradise and leaves Paradise, new attributes are provided to the personality from the Adjuster. This means that the two partners never achieve absolute oneness.

(1212.5) 110.7.4  Subsequent to mortal fusion the Adjusters share your destiny and experience; they are you. After the fusion of the immortal morontia soul and the associated Adjuster, all of the experience and all of the values of the one eventually become the possession of the other, so that the two are actually one entity. In a certain sense, this new being is of the eternal past as well as for the eternal future. All that was once human in the surviving soul and all that is experientially divine in the Adjuster now become the actual possession of the new and ever-ascending universe personality. But on each universe level the Adjuster can endow the new creature only with those attributes which are meaningful and of value on that level. An absolute oneness with the divine Monitor, a complete exhaustion of the endowment of an Adjuster, can only be achieved in eternity subsequent to the final attainment of the Universal Father, the Father of spirits, ever the source of these divine gifts.

brooklyn_born wrote:
There is a reference in TUB that speaks of uncharted universes or something to that effect and Finaliters will play a role in creation in those worlds


The finaliters return to the seven superuniverses to serve other ascenders. They will not have anything to do in outer space realms until after the full emergence of the Supreme Being when all finite potentials have become actual and a whole new source of absonite potentials become available for actualization.

(345.10) 31:0.10 During the present universe age the finaliters return to serve in the universes of time. They are assigned to labor successively in the different superuniverses and never in their native superuniverses until after they have served in all the other six supercreations. Thus may they acquire the sevenfold concept of the Supreme Being.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
TAs are a diety-personality level of the Father. Fusion is oneness with deity.


There's a technicality though which makes all the difference in perspective. Thought Adjusters are not personalities. Yes, they are Deity. In fact, they are God. But they do not have the ability to exercise their will in regards to the personality in question. Adjusters have prewill which can only be utilized on prepersonality levels. When a Thought Adjuster fuses with a personality and its associated free will, it's the personality that outranks the prepersonality with prewill in matters of volition, and all other matters of personality. The prewill of the Adjuster does not change to non-prewill. References;

(1183.5) 107:7.3 We have often speculated that Thought Adjusters must have volition on all prepersonal levels of choice. They volunteer to indwell human beings, they lay plans for man’s eternal career, they adapt, modify, and substitute in accordance with circumstances, and these activities connote genuine volition. They have affection for mortals, they function in universe crises, they are always waiting to act decisively in accordance with human choice, and all these are highly volitional reactions. In all situations not concerned with the domain of the human will, they unquestionably exhibit conduct which betokens the exercise of powers in every sense the equivalent of will, maximated decision.

(1183.6) 107:7.4 Why then, if Thought Adjusters possess volition, are they subservient to the mortal will? We believe it is because Adjuster volition, though absolute in nature, is prepersonal in manifestation. Human will functions on the personality level of universe reality, and throughout the cosmos the impersonal — the nonpersonal, the subpersonal, and the prepersonal — is ever responsive to the will and acts of existent personality.


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Okay, this will probably be my last reply on the topic (hopefully! I am known to fall into temptation.) I laid out my argument on this topic. There are but so many ways for me to argue it. I think I reached my limit. Readers can reject my thoughts on this matter. We have free will.

katroofjebus, truthfully, we are coming from different points of views arriving at the same place. There is no technicality as you suggest. The two of us presented different frame of references of the revelation. I think the real "technicality" is trying to find an issue to argue over, to be quite frank; if I were to go back and forth with you over this "technicality" then we'll just be straining at the gnat.

What I am now observing is the threads I authored have degenerated into battle of wits (and I am including myself.) And to me that is not a constructive or productive way to have a healthy and educational discussion. I say all that to say, we can agree to disagree.



katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
TAs are a diety-personality level of the Father. Fusion is oneness with deity.


There's a technicality though which makes all the difference in perspective. Thought Adjusters are not personalities. Yes, they are Deity. In fact, they are God. But they do not have the ability to exercise their will in regards to the personality in question. Adjusters have prewill which can only be utilized on prepersonality levels. When a Thought Adjuster fuses with a personality and its associated free will, it's the personality that outranks the prepersonality with prewill in matters of volition, and all other matters of personality. The prewill of the Adjuster does not change to non-prewill. References;

(1183.5) 107:7.3 We have often speculated that Thought Adjusters must have volition on all prepersonal levels of choice. They volunteer to indwell human beings, they lay plans for man’s eternal career, they adapt, modify, and substitute in accordance with circumstances, and these activities connote genuine volition. They have affection for mortals, they function in universe crises, they are always waiting to act decisively in accordance with human choice, and all these are highly volitional reactions. In all situations not concerned with the domain of the human will, they unquestionably exhibit conduct which betokens the exercise of powers in every sense the equivalent of will, maximated decision.

(1183.6) 107:7.4 Why then, if Thought Adjusters possess volition, are they subservient to the mortal will? We believe it is because Adjuster volition, though absolute in nature, is prepersonal in manifestation. Human will functions on the personality level of universe reality, and throughout the cosmos the impersonal — the nonpersonal, the subpersonal, and the prepersonal — is ever responsive to the will and acts of existent personality.

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fanofVan wrote:
SEla_Kelly wrote:
The power to choose evil increases, as we become more and more aware of the evil that we are actually capable of. So in theory, having more free will probably indicates intellectual gain, social power, priveleges status of civil liberties, but along with these gains in life comes virtue and ethos, an intention of wanting to use your liberty for the betterment of mankind. If you are the first worker in a new Supreme pattern, well maybe it is a fact that if you fall out, then someone has to pick up the slack. However, if you do not actually love what you do, then you must question whether you are simply abiding in the rules of society in order to reap your own share in it. But I will contend that having more spirituality means more free will, more opportunity to have relative choices in actual terms, which also reflect morality and personality (well character if not personality).


I don't know why you make such a claim...seems illogical. We grow in wisdom over time by the experience of our choices. Why then would anyone 'choose' evil or have more potential to do so? How do you define the term evil anyway? The UB says it is error and ignorance and inexperience but we are becoming more experienced by prior error to choose with less and less error.

I've been thinking a lot about BB's claim and premise here and have concluded his question is quite logical and reasonable based on the reality and premise I wrote above....there is less and less spectrum or amount of error to choose from over time and perfecting as we gain experiential wisdom. There are more and more choices we will NOT choose or no longer choose due to experience and prior repercussions suffered and/or witnessed by certain choices made in error. So it is logical that this reduces the 'range' or spectrum of choice....there are fewer choices and options and therefore we "lose free will as we become more spiritual" per BB's question and claims here. BB goes so far as to assume and propose that by the act of perfecting, that range reduces to zero eventually...we run out of choices once we become spiritized sufficiently and wise enough.

My initial reaction (over-reaction?) has been delivered by the fact that we mortals and all personalities never lose free will and we never become mindless automatons and minions of some overlord ruling hordes of adoring but unthinking masses. Individuality is important to me. I think it is to every being with personality. I think this is inherent to personality...and to God. There is only one God...and there is only one me...and there is only one you...and there is only one of us each and all. This is a very important teaching in the Papers. The Revelation not only tells us this is true, it tells us why it is so. It is God's will that it is so. It is God's way that it is so. It is the very essence of the Supreme. The unique experience and expressions of truth, beauty, and goodness personalized. That is the key term here - personalized. We are having experiences and giving expressions that belong not only to us individually but belong to God as well and through God belong to all of us in total. Free will is essential and vital and the source of all such personalization and so will never end. Or be reduced.

But what about the range and spectrum of choice? Doesn't it diminish? Don't we have fewer choices to choose from as we eliminate options from our choice palette by experience and wisdom? No. Choice never diminishes. Because the errors that are removed from our spectrum of choice are replaced by at least as many new choices...the growing range and spectrum of better choices!! We must eventually come to realize and face the reality that our growing wisdom really results in more choices to choose from. And these choices get more interesting and more challenging. Choosing right over wrong is but the foundational beginnings of free will choice...the obvious spectrum of choice. The less obvious options are the endless configurations of timing, strategy, and tactic to choose from at all the same intersections of choice where once upon a time only right and wrong were chosen from.

One day we will look back at this time of choosing and reminisce of those times when choice was so black and white, so obvious, and driven primarily by our dual nature. I am reminded of the many choices of our Master during his life here. How much thought he had to give to so many choices he made that had so many options to choose and so many different potential outcomes and the great wisdom he applied. There are also the great decisions made by him prior to coming here and in the Perean Hills. So calculating and configuring. Like an intricate and living chess board with all these moving pieces, many being moved by others in their own unpredictable free will fashion always upsetting and rearranging trajectories and timing and outcomes. All of time and all choices in time are made in one moment of reality that immediately changes in countless ways and does so endlessly. Nothing is truly predictable in outcome by any of our choices.

And yet there are choices that are always better than others. Choices which depend upon and rely upon and accept and expect the will of God and the hand of God to eventuate good motive and wisdom into positive outcome. We cast the bread upon the water for God to deliver the effects. But how wise is the bread cast? For it could always be wiser....and wiser....and still wiser. Just ask the Creator/Master Son of our universe!! For his choices were not so easy to choose or to make and by their experience did Michael become even wiser and end up with even more choices and greater free will to make choices and to seek ever greater wisdom with even more choices with his free will.

One last point, for now....every free will choice that is true, beautiful, or good sets off an endless chain reaction of new potential. The endless chain of choices being made in time and space are creating a growing spectrum of good and better choices and options for our free will decisions. There are an ever growing number of pending intersections of decision and relationship that each delivers another opportunity for another being to make another choice of free will even more wisely than all the choices that being has made before. Experiential wisdom for all beings that are not God is an endless function of reality....it is a result but it is a result without end.

So....we do not lose free will. Neither do we lose choices from which to choose. We gain those. The better we choose and the more choices we make, the more choice we face to improve our choosing. This is the adventure of uncertainty of outcome and the freedom to choose and apply our free will. This is God's will....and WAY.

Peace....indeed.

Bradly :idea: :smile: 8)


So....does Christ Michael have free will or not? Do Paradise origin beings and citizens have free will or not? Does God? Perfect, perfected, and perfecting beings with personality have free will. Especially ascenders and faith children.

The obvious answer to the question posed as topic here is NO, we do not lose free will as we become more spiritual.

Bradly


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brooklyn_born wrote:
katroofjebus, truthfully, we are coming from different points of views arriving at the same place. There is no technicality as you suggest. The two of us presented different frame of references of the revelation. I think the real "technicality" is trying to find an issue to argue over, to be quite frank; if I were to go back and forth with you over this "technicality" then we'll just be straining at the gnat.


I don't see it as a gnat though. I think it's a vitally important fact that free will survives fusion and the face-to-face with the Father himself on Paradise. It's more than just semantics. I think it gets at the heart of the meaning of this entire universe age, where every single personality, and its power of personality free will is critical for the final emergence of the Supreme.

Yes, this happens as more and more individuals, planets, systems and universes swing into light and life, meaning attunement to the Father and his divine plan. I just want to make sure that everyone understands that this process is not so much a submission of will but an acceptance of the fact the the Father's will in any given situation is superior to all others. It's more stable, and more replete than any other option. The personality still has to choose that superior option though, even after fusion (and into eternity) if it wants to contribute to the Supreme, which is a group effort.

This is the only reason I'm stressing it, so there is no confusion for other people reading this, now or later. Yes, it is a little nit-picky, but the motivation is NOT to be critical or fault-finding, but for clarity. I hope you understand that. It's not personal.


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Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:21 am +0000
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for what its worth i think if it's really our will that we do the Fathers will then the most practical and vibrant day by day experience of that is just the domination of the Fathers will rather than some active ongoing submission of our own...and it could be all relative to perspective anyway


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