Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:27 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 532 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 32, 33, 34, 35, 36  Next
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3668
shrimpythai wrote:
I just had a problem with not knowing - and even if the author of the paper doesn't know - the Old man upstairs does know
and I had a post written up for Sela_ Kelly - but didn't post it

from Sela_ Kelly

"O, I disagree. I as a human individual, even as a post-ultimate finalitor, cannot claim more than a 1/(infinity)th share of "the All" (i.e. "the grand universe"). Although God is connected to me, and knows all about me, I know, with ally my great knowledge, nothing in comparison with God. The only thing you share in the all from me, is a relationship, being able to know me, and the reverbial-peripheral effects of my deeds, altruistic and/or sinful."

but thought I would at least post something - after I had a thought of doing the Will of the Father - let me see how this pans out :
God is connected to all of us - yes we do not know much compared to God - but we are all part of God and he with all of us -
but I know God and I know you and I know other people on this forum and I would say I share more than a relationship with you as we are all connected in the big picture of things

and IF i do happen to get to be a "post-ultimate finalitor" I would be a very Spiritual being - and not be worried about a 1 infinity share of the All in the grand universe because it is all up to you what choice you make and where you want to go .. i would KNOW that all I am doing is trying to help my fellows progress on the right track to get to wherever they end up - we don;t know it all and we still have to live it all to see where we end up - on this planet and in the everlasting future
personally - i have no knowledge of anythjing except if it was given to me by god the Father - and I have no desire to be anything or anyone unless the old man desires me to be - I have put all my Mind - Spirit and Soul in His hands - so I am not worried one whit where I go or what i do or what happens to this mortal body - I am in His hands for evermore - am not worried about anything - not worried about dying or whether anyone likes me or anything ... onwards and upwards is the way ... anyway - nuff said for tonight


Yes....I understand. The UB is so authoritative which exudes confidence to the reader!! And yet, throughout the text are so many examples (Bonita's list is only a partial one actually) of the fact and reality that all beings in the cosmos except the First Source and Center face some uncertainties. Some unknowns. Some things that are not revealed to them. Even Paradise beings do not know everything that God knows. And the UB is not written by God. And even if it were, our minds at this level of experience and finite limitations could not understand "everything". We cannot understand even eternity or infinity!!

Some of the authors sound a little condescending I think and I always found that natural and irritating both. But then I hear them say they don't know something and they conjecture and postulate and believe and speculate, etc. Wonderful!!! Even the universe big shots face mystery and have wonder and deal with uncertainty. The playing fields of reality are thusly leveled for all beings. As mortal ascenders who fuse with Adjusters and attain every level of being from material to spirit, our destiny is so very special. We mere tadpoles will know things and do things and see things and understand things that many others will not I think.

I think the authors are humbled by this reality that we all share....some ignorance and lack of understanding facing the enormity of reality!! It's a good think...a really good thing I think. And yes....I agree....we share far more than a relationship. We share this reality and origin and destiny and the path to Paradise. Which tadpole does not know all other tadpoles?? And what frog does not know all other tadpoles and frogs??? We know God....together. We feel God's assurance and we know the same glory of adventure and discovery and the wonderful uncertainty of both!! We feel....alive....together. This is what makes us family....this similarity between all beings, high and low, throughout all of creation.

Well said by you Brother!! Well said indeed.

Hahaha...555...!!! 8) :lol:


Last edited by fanofVan on Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:22 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:44 am +0000
Posts: 341
Location: thailand
Bradly - thanks very much - your posts lift me up and give me hope for the human race and this forum... most of my bad moments during the day actually come from just driving to and from work here in thailand - the morning is 1 and half hours as I have to drop off the 2 and now 3 Grandfish at 2 schools - but the level of driving here is not so good - and have heard even in the usa is not so good either - but... and then more dismay on the foreign affairs of nations that is going on at the moment - really depressing... every day actually - don;t have to name names - the bad players do know who they are
but I just copied katroofjebus's list - can I use Bonita ? to my gmail so I can print up the list later at work as have no printer at home
have read a lot of book 1 now but will have to read it again

but Truth to Power - I am 60 years old now - 61 oct 1 and really - I may not have all the details of the UB and cannot quote chapter and verse and yes - a ton of details which I may not know yet - but - it still gets down to the basics - whether you know all the details or not - reading book 4 first really got me going - books 1-3 are great and all the details are great and good to know for sure - but to me - it still gets down to wanting to know God and live and be in the Truth-Spirit-Mind and Soul of all around you that you can - help all you can - not kill anyone - and try to impart as much knowledge and help that you can to all you meet - and love your neighbor as yourself and try to love others as JC showed...everything else will come and will be made know in the long road ahead - the UB has a ton of information - but I am not so worried about memorizing it all - it all will come and be made know anyway - but still have to study and learn - and yes I have questions about what the writers do not know - but that is ok - as most of the UB is bang on and I think really is a revelation ... just have to get it all read first so I can keep up with you all on the details 5 5 5


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:44 am +0000
Posts: 341
Location: thailand
onwards and upwards !

5. Omnipotence and Compossibility
118:5.1 (1299.1) The omnipotence of Deity does not imply the power to do the nondoable. Within the time-space frame and from the intellectual reference point of mortal comprehension, even the infinite God cannot create square circles or produce evil that is inherently good. God cannot do the ungodlike thing. Such a contradiction of philosophic terms is the equivalent of nonentity and implies that nothing is thus created. A personality trait cannot at the same time be Godlike and ungodlike. Compossibility is innate in divine power. And all of this is derived from the fact that omnipotence not only creates things with a nature but also gives origin to the nature of all things and beings.

118:5.2 (1299.2) In the beginning the Father does all, but as the panorama of eternity unfolds in response to the will and mandates of the Infinite, it becomes increasingly apparent that creatures, even men, are to become God’s partners in the realization of finality of destiny. And this is true even in the life in the flesh; when man and God enter into partnership, no limitation can be placed upon the future possibilities of such a partnership. When man realizes that the Universal Father is his partner in eternal progression, when he fuses with the indwelling Father presence, he has, in spirit, broken the fetters of time and has already entered upon the progressions of eternity in the quest for the Universal Father.

whoa this is good ! "broken the fetters of time"

118:5.3 (1299.3) Mortal consciousness proceeds from the fact, to the meaning, and then to the value. Creator consciousness proceeds from the thought-value, through the word-meaning, to the fact of action. Always must God act to break the deadlock of the unqualified unity inherent in existential infinity. Always must Deity provide the pattern universe, the perfect personalities, the original truth, beauty, and goodness for which all subdeity creations strive. Always must God first find man that man may later find God. Always must there be a Universal Father before there can ever be universal sonship and consequent universal brotherhood.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 727
shrimpythai wrote:
but I just copied katroofjebus's list - can I use Bonita ?


You should ask me that question shrimpythai since I'm the one who compiled that list, me and me alone without help from anyone else. It's my work and I'm still working on it. Here's more:

40. The ultimate destiny of Spirit fusers of local and superuniverse citizenship. 40:10.8

41. If ascending mortals will still be destined to the Corps of the Finality when the grand universe is settled in light and life. 55:6.10

42 What will occur when a superuniverse is settled in light and life. 55:12.1

43. If large numbers of unattached creature-trinitized sons are to be assembled on the headquarters and divisional capitals of the settled superuniverses when a superuniverse is settled in light and life. 55:12.2

44. Whether or not the Supreme Being will emerge from Havona and become resident on the headquarters of the seventh superuniverse when the grand universe is settled in light and life. 55:12.5


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3668
Actually, several of us shared a long topic at another forum on this very subject (including Bonita)...all the quotes demonstrating lack of knowledge or certainty and speculation by the authors. A most interesting topic of its own.

Anything publicly posted can be copied Steve. No worries.

"Me and me alone"...an unfortunate disposition.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:44 am +0000
Posts: 341
Location: thailand
ok I just thought katroofjebus was Bonita - let me know if this is a mistake in name - sorry - or if not ok let me know - I like using someone's name if I can instead of the forum moniker - as I like being called Steve - but you can call me shrimpythai is ok of course

and I think there is a VERY big list of what is not known but the UB writers - in lots of papers - hope this is not too bad of a thing

I just hope is isn't as bad as Donald Rumsfeld's - known knowns and known unknowns and unknown unknowns etc... gawd ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiPe1OiKQuk


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3668
katroofjebus is Bonita. She has posted on multiple forums for 13+ years as Bonita including TruthBook. She is a noted scholar. I have no idea why she changed her name here and now pretends to be someone else.

I always liked the fact that reality knowledge is limited by experience and wisdom and hierchy. Some know more than others and only one knows all.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 727
shrimpythai wrote:
ok I just thought katroofjebus was Bonita - let me know if this is a mistake in name - sorry - or if not ok let me know - I like using someone's name if I can instead of the forum moniker - as I like being called Steve - but you can call me shrimpythai is ok of course


Are you posting my work somewhere? I prefer you don't because it is no where near complete, I'm only up to paper 55. Using a different name than the author I think is unethical, so I don't recommend it. For the record not everything you read on this forum is correct, especially when it comes to personality disputes. People can say the darnedest things and not all of them are based in reality. Thanks Steve for asking and for your interest in my work. Katro.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 922
katroofjebus wrote:

You should ask me that question shrimpythai since I'm the one who compiled that list, me and me alone without help from anyone else. It's my work and I'm still working on it. Here's more:

40. The ultimate destiny of Spirit fusers of local and superuniverse citizenship. 40:10.8

41. If ascending mortals will still be destined to the Corps of the Finality when the grand universe is settled in light and life. 55:6.10

42 What will occur when a superuniverse is settled in light and life. 55:12.1

43. If large numbers of unattached creature-trinitized sons are to be assembled on the headquarters and divisional capitals of the settled superuniverses when a superuniverse is settled in light and life. 55:12.2

44. Whether or not the Supreme Being will emerge from Havona and become resident on the headquarters of the seventh superuniverse when the grand universe is settled in light and life. 55:12.5


Excuse me Katroof, if you could take your ear muffs off for a moment I'd like to know how it is that you claim the work of the authors of the UB to be YOUR work?

All you did was master the art of online search phrases, probably on things like "I do not know," "we do not know," "we are not sure," "unrevealed", etc. Anyone can do that. I could write software code to do it. It is not your proprietary work, not by a long shot. Do you really think you are the first and only person who has ever sought out and listed the parts of the UB that are unknown to the authors?

Quote:
master universe almanac
Charting the Urantia Papers


Part One Part Two Part Three Part Four Compendia Charts

List of Lists Presenters Truth, beauty, & goodness We do not know The third day Personality & type Personality & identity Ultimaton Morontia soul Sleeping survivors

Search Engine Study:
"we do not (really) know"

From Part I - The Central and Superuniverses
Reference Quotation
7:5.7 The bestowals of the Eternal Son in Havona are not within the scope of human imagination; they were transcendental. He added to the experience of all Havona then and subsequently, but we do not know whether he added to the supposed experiential capacity of his existential nature. That would fall within the bestowal mystery of the Paradise Sons. We do, however, believe that whatever the Eternal Son acquired on these bestowal missions, he has ever since retained; but we do not know what it is.
9:6.8 The mind-gravity circuit is dependable; it emanates from the Third Person of Deity on Paradise, but not all the observable function of mind is predictable. Throughout all known creation there parallels this circuit of mind some little-understood presence whose function is not predictable. We believe that this unpredictability is partly attributable to the function of the Universal Absolute. What this function is, we do not know; what actuates it, we can only conjecture; concerning its relation to creatures, we can only speculate.
9:8.10 The Father bestows personality by his personal free will. Why he does so we can only conjecture; how he does so we do not know. Neither do we know why the Third Source bestows non-Father personality, but this the Infinite Spirit does in his own behalf, in creative conjunction with the Eternal Son and in numerous ways unknown to you. The Infinite Spirit can also act for the Father in the bestowal of First Source personality.
10:3.6 We observe that the Father has divested himself of all direct manifestations of absoluteness except absolute fatherhood and absolute volition. We do not know whether volition is an inalienable attribute of the Father; we can only observe that he did not divest himself of volition. Such infinity of will must have been eternally inherent in the First Source and Center.
10:7.3 The Supreme Being is something less and something other than the Trinity functioning in the finite universes; but within certain limits and during the present era of incomplete power-personalization, this evolutionary Deity does appear to reflect the attitude of the Trinity of Supremacy. The Father, Son, and Spirit do not personally function with the Supreme Being, but during the present universe age they collaborate with him as the Trinity. We understand that they sustain a similar relationship to the Ultimate. We often conjecture as to what will be the personal relationship between the Paradise Deities and God the Supreme when he has finally evolved, but we do not really know.
10:7.5 The mortal mind can immediately think of a thousand and one things—catastrophic physical events, appalling accidents, horrific disasters, painful illnesses, and world-wide scourges—and ask whether such visitations are correlated in the unknown maneuvering of this probable functioning of the Supreme Being. Frankly, we do not know; we are not really sure. But we do observe that, as time passes, all these difficult and more or less mysterious situations always work out for the welfare and progress of the universes. It may be that the circumstances of existence and the inexplicable vicissitudes of living are all interwoven into a meaningful pattern of high value by the function of the Supreme and the overcontrol of the Trinity.
11:6.1 We do not know the actual mechanism of space respiration; we merely observe that all space alternately contracts and expands. This respiration affects both the horizontal extension of pervaded space and the vertical extensions of unpervaded space which exist in the vast space reservoirs above and below Paradise. In attempting to imagine the volume outlines of these space reservoirs, you might think of an hourglass.
11:6.3 "Unpervaded" space means: unpervaded by those forces, energies, powers, and presences known to exist in pervaded space. We do not know whether vertical (reservoir) space is destined always to function as the equipoise of horizontal (universe) space; we do not know whether there is a creative intent concerning unpervaded space; we really know very little about the space reservoirs, merely that they exist, and that they seem to counterbalance the space-expansion-contraction cycles of the universe of universes.
11:7.4 Space is neither a subabsolute condition within, nor the presence of, the Unqualified Absolute, neither is it a function of the Ultimate. It is a bestowal of Paradise, and the space of the grand universe and that of all outer regions is believed to be actually pervaded by the ancestral space potency of the Unqualified Absolute. From near approach to peripheral Paradise, this pervaded space extends horizontally outward through the fourth space level and beyond the periphery of the master universe, but how far beyond we do not know.
12:1.16 The central universe is the creation of eternity; the seven superuniverses are the creations of time; the four outer space levels are undoubtedly destined to eventuate-evolve the ultimacy of creation. And there are those who maintain that the Infinite can never attain full expression short of infinity; and therefore do they postulate an additional and unrevealed creation beyond the fourth and outermost space level, a possible ever-expanding, never-ending universe of infinity. In theory we do not know how to limit either the infinity of the Creator or the potential infinity of creation, but as it exists and is administered, we regard the master universe as having limitations, as being definitely delimited and bounded on its outer margins by open space.
12:4.2 The Unqualified Absolute is functionally limited to space, but we are not so sure about the relation of this Absolute to motion. Is motion inherent therein? We do not know. We know that motion is not inherent in space; even the motions of space are not innate. But we are not so sure about the relation of the Unqualified to motion. Who, or what, is really responsible for the gigantic activities of force-energy transmutations now in progress out beyond the borders of the present seven superuniverses? Concerning the origin of motion we have the following opinions:
1. We think the Conjoint Actor initiates motion in space.
2. If the Conjoint Actor produces the motions of space, we cannot prove it.
3. The Universal Absolute does not originate initial motion but does equalize and control all of the tensions originated by motion.
12:5.2 Space is not infinite, even though it takes origin from Paradise; not absolute, for it is pervaded by the Unqualified Absolute. We do not know the absolute limits of space, but we do know that the absolute of time is eternity.
12:6.7 We do not really know, but we surmise that such amazing versatility and such profound co-ordination signify the presence and performance of the Absolutes, and that such diversity of response in the face of apparently uniform causation discloses the reaction of the Absolutes, not only to the immediate and situational causation, but also to all other related causations throughout the entire master universe.
17:6.4 2. Preliminary Creatorship Training. During the long period of the preliminary training of a Michael Son in the organization and administration of universes, his future consort undergoes further development of entity and becomes group conscious of destiny. We do not know, but we suspect that such a group-conscious entity becomes space cognizant and begins that preliminary training requisite to the acquirement of spirit skill in her future work of collaboration with the complemental Michael in universe creation and administration.
19:5.1 I will be able to tell you very little concerning the Inspired Trinity Spirits, for they are one of the few wholly secret orders of beings in existence, secret, no doubt, because it is impossible for them fully to reveal themselves even to those of us whose origin is so near the source of their creation. They come into being by the act of the Paradise Trinity and may be utilized by any one or two of the Deities as well as by all three. We do not know whether these Spirits are of completed numbers or are constantly increasing, but we incline to the belief that their number is not fixed.
19:5.6 I may relate a further interesting fact: When a Solitary Messenger is on a planet whose inhabitants are indwelt by Thought Adjusters, as on Urantia, he is aware of a qualitative excitation in his detection-sensitivity to spirit presence. In such instances there is no quantitative excitation, only a qualitative agitation. When on a planet to which Adjusters do not come, contact with the natives does not produce any such reaction. This suggests that Thought Adjusters are in some manner related to, or are connected with, the Inspired Spirits of the Paradise Trinity. In some way they may possibly be associated in certain phases of their work; but we do not really know. They both originate near the center and source of all things, but they are not the same order of being. Thought Adjusters spring from the Father alone; Inspired Spirits are the offspring of the Paradise Trinity.
19:5.9 We know that the Trinity Teacher Sons are devoted to the conscious enlightenment of universe creatures. I have arrived at the settled conclusion that the Inspired Trinity Spirits, by superconscious techniques, are also functioning as teachers of the realms. I am persuaded that there is a vast body of essential spiritual knowledge, truth indispensable to high spiritual attainment, which cannot be consciously received; self-consciousness would effectively jeopardize the certainty of reception. If we are right in this concept, and my entire order of being shares it, it may be the mission of these Inspired Spirits to overcome this difficulty, to bridge this gap in the universal scheme of moral enlightenment and spiritual advancement. We think that these two types of Trinity-origin teachers effect some kind of liaison in their activities, but we do not really know.
19:6.4 The status evolution of Havona natives has occasioned much speculation on Uversa. Since they are constantly filtering into the several Paradise Corps of the Finality, and since no more are being created, it is apparent that the number of natives remaining in Havona is constantly diminishing. The ultimate consequences of these transactions have never been revealed to us, but we do not believe that Havona will ever be entirely depleted of its natives. We have entertained the theory that Havoners will possibly cease entering the finaliter corps sometime during the ages of the successive creations of the outer space levels. We have also entertained the thought that in these subsequent universe ages the central universe may be peopled by a mixed group of resident beings, a citizenship consisting only in part of the original Havona natives. We do not know what order or type of creature may be thus destined to residential status in the future Havona, but we have thought of:
1. The univitatia, who are at present the permanent citizens of the local universe constellations.
2. Future types of mortals who may be born on the inhabited spheres of the superuniverses in the flowering of the ages of light and life.
3. The incoming spiritual aristocracy of the successive outer universes.
22:7.14 3. Trinitized Sons of Destiny. But when a finaliter and a Paradise-Havoner together trinitize a new creature, this conjoint effort repercusses in certain phases of the Supreme-Ultimate Mind. The resulting creature-trinitized sons are supercreational; they represent actualities of Supreme-Ultimate Deity which have not been otherwise experientially attained, and which, therefore, automatically fall within the province of the Architects of the Master Universe, custodians of those things which transcend the creational limits of the present universe age. The trinitized sons of destiny embody certain aspects of the unrevealed master universe function of the Supreme-Ultimate. We do not know a great deal about these conjoint children of time and eternity, but we know much more than we are permitted to reveal.
23:4.3 When a finaliter and a Paradise Citizen co-operate in the trinitization of a "child of time and eternity"—a transaction involving the unrevealed mind potentials of the Supreme-Ultimate—and when such an unclassified personality is dispatched to Vicegerington, a Solitary Messenger (a conjectured personality repercussion of the bestowal of such deity mind) is always assigned as guardian-companion to such a creature-trinitized son. This messenger accompanies the new son of destiny to the world of his assignment and nevermore leaves Vicegerington. When thus attached to the destinies of a child of time and eternity, a Solitary Messenger is forever transferred to the sole supervision of the Architects of the Master Universe. What the future of such an extraordinary association may be, we do not know. For ages these partnerships of unique personalities have continued to forgather on Vicegerington, but not even a single pair has ever gone forth therefrom.
23:4.4 Solitary Messengers are of stationary numbers, but the trinitization of the sons of destiny is apparently an unlimited technique. Since each trinitized son of destiny has assigned to him a Solitary Messenger, it appears to us that at some time in the remote future the supply of messengers will become exhausted. Who will take up their work in the grand universe? Will their service be assumed by some new development among the Inspired Trinity Spirits? Is the grand universe at some remote period going to be more nearly administered by Trinity-origin beings while the single- and dual-origin creatures move on into the realms of outer space? If the messengers return to their former service, will these sons of destiny accompany them? Will the trinitizations between finaliters and Paradise-Havoners cease when the supply of Solitary Messengers has been absorbed as guardian-companions of these sons of destiny? Are all our efficient Solitary Messengers going to be concentrated on Vicegerington? Are these extraordinary spirit personalities going to be eternally associated with these trinitized sons of unrevealed destiny? What significance should we attach to the fact that these couples forgathering on Vicegerington are under the exclusive direction of those mighty mystery beings, the Architects of the Master Universe? These and many similar questions we ask ourselves, and ask numerous other orders of celestial beings, but we do not know the answers.
24:2.8 Census Directors register the existence of a new will creature when the first act of will is performed; they indicate the death of a will creature when the last act of will takes place. The partial emergence of will observed in the reactions of certain of the higher animals does not belong to the domain of the Census Directors. They keep count of nothing but bona fide will creatures, and they are responsive to nothing but will function. Exactly how they register the function of will, we do not know.
31:3.3 Notwithstanding that these ascendant mortals have attained Paradise, have been mustered into the Corps of the Finality, and have been sent back in large numbers to participate in the conduct of local universes and to assist in the administration of superuniverse affairs—in the face of even this apparent destiny, there remains the significant fact that they are of record as only sixth-stage spirits. There undoubtedly remains one more step in the career of the Mortal Corps of the Finality. We do not know the nature of that step, but we have taken cognizance of, and here call attention to, three facts:
31:7.2 Any celestial personality assigned to the service of any finaliter corps is denominated an Evangel of Light. These beings do not take the finaliter oath, and though subject to the corps organization they are not of permanent attachment. This group may embrace Solitary Messengers, supernaphim, seconaphim, Paradise Citizens, or their trinitized offspring—any being required in the prosecution of a transient finaliter assignment. Whether or not the corps is to have these beings attached to the eternal mission, we do not know. At the conclusion of attachment these Evangels of Light resume their former status.

Contents Scroll Top
From Part II - The Local Universe
Reference Quotation
40:10.8 What the ultimate destiny of these stationary orders of local and of superuniverse citizenship will be we do not know, but it is quite possible that, when the Paradise finaliters are pioneering the expanding frontiers of divinity in the planetary systems of the first outer space level, their Son- and Spirit-fused brethren of the ascendant evolutionary struggle will be acceptably contributing to the maintenance of the experiential equilibrium of the perfected superuniverses while they stand ready to welcome the incoming stream of Paradise pilgrims who may, at that distant day, pour in through Orvonton and its sister creations as a vast spirit-questing torrent from these now uncharted and uninhabited galaxies of outer space.
55:6.5 We conceive that physical evolution will have attained its full development by the end of the fifth epoch of the light-and-life era. We observe that the upper limits of spiritual development associated with evolving human mind are determined by the Adjuster-fusion level of conjoint morontia values and cosmic meanings. But concerning wisdom: While we do not really know, we conjecture that there can never be a limit to intellectual evolution and the attainment of wisdom. On a seventh-stage world, wisdom can exhaust the material potentials, enter upon mota insight, and eventually even taste of absonite grandeur.
55:6.10 We often ponder: If the grand universe should be settled in light and life, would the ascending exquisite mortals still be destined to the Corps of the Finality? But we do not know.
56:7.6 It is a fact that, as the creations of time and space are progressively settled in evolutionary status, there is observed a new and fuller functioning of God the Supreme concomitant with a corresponding withdrawing of the first three manifestations of God the Sevenfold. If and when the grand universe becomes settled in light and life, what then will be the future function of the Creator-Creative manifestations of God the Sevenfold if God the Supreme assumes direct control of these creations of time and space? Are these organizers and pioneers of the time-space universes to be liberated for similar activities in outer space? We do not know, but we speculate much concerning these and related matters.

Contents Scroll Top
From Part III - The History of Urantia
Reference Quotation
75:6.3 The Edenic caravan was halted on the third day out from the Garden by the arrival of the seraphic transports from Jerusem. And for the first time Adam and Eve were informed of what was to become of their children. While the transports stood by, those children who had arrived at the age of choice (twenty years) were given the option of remaining on Urantia with their parents or of becoming wards of the Most Highs of Norlatiadek. Two thirds chose to go to Edentia; about one third elected to remain with their parents. All children of prechoice age were taken to Edentia. No one could have beheld the sorrowful parting of this Material Son and Daughter and their children without realizing that the way of the transgressor is hard. These offspring of Adam and Eve are now on Edentia; we do not know what disposition is to be made of them.
106:4.3 What changes will be inaugurated by the full emergence of the Ultimate we do not know. But as the Supreme is now spiritually and personally present in Havona, so also is the Ultimate there present but in the absonite and superpersonal sense. And you have been informed of the existence of the Qualified Vicegerents of the Ultimate, though you have not been informed of their present whereabouts or function.
106:6.4 Stated otherwise: The Trinity Absolute, as its name implies, is really absolute in total function. We do not know how an absolute function can achieve total expression on a qualified, limited, or otherwise restricted basis. Hence we must assume that any such totality function will be unconditioned (in potential). And it would also appear that the unconditioned would also be unlimited, at least from a qualitative standpoint, though we are not so sure regarding quantitative relationships.
106:8.22 In the union of the Supreme, Ultimate, and the complete Absolute, there could occur the functional reassembly of those aspects of infinity which were originally segmentalized by the I AM, and which resulted in the appearance of the Seven Absolutes of Infinity. Though the universe philosophers deem this to be a most remote probability, still, we often ask this question: If the second level of the Trinity of Trinities could ever achieve trinity unity, what then would transpire as a consequence of such deity unity? We do not know, but we are confident that it would lead directly to the realization of the I AM as an experiential attainable. From the standpoint of personal beings it could mean that the unknowable I AM had become experiencible as the Father-Infinite. What these absolute destinies might mean from a nonpersonal standpoint is another matter and one which only eternity could possibly clarify. But as we view these remote eventualities as personal creatures, we deduce that the final destiny of all personalities is the final knowing of the Universal Father of these selfsame personalities.
107:1.3 As to the time of their beginning separate existences apart from the absoluteness of the First Source and Center, we do not know; neither do we know their number. We know very little concerning their careers until they arrive on the planets of time to indwell human minds, but from that time on we are more or less familiar with their cosmic progressions up to and including the consummation of their triune destinies: attainment of personality by fusion with some mortal ascender, attainment of personality by fiat of the Universal Father, or liberation from the known assignments of Thought Adjusters.
107:1.4 Although we do not know, we presume that Adjusters are being constantly individualized as the universe enlarges, and as the candidates for Adjuster fusion increase in numbers. But it may be equally possible that we are in error in attempting to assign a numerical magnitude to the Adjusters; like God himself, these fragments of his unfathomable nature may be existentially infinite.
107:2.6 5. Liberated Adjusters, those Mystery Monitors that have been eternally liberated from the service of time for the mortals of the evolving spheres. What functions may be theirs, we do not know.
107:5.2 Since Adjusters can plan, work, and love, they must have powers of selfhood which are commensurate with mind. They are possessed of unlimited ability to communicate with each other, that is, all forms of Monitors above the first or virgin groups. As to the nature and purport of their intercommunications, we can reveal very little, for we do not know. And we further know that they must be minded in some manner else they could never be personalized.
108:2.11 6. Influence of the Supreme Being. On worlds where the Adjusters do not fuse with the evolving souls of the mortal inhabitants, we observe Adjusters sometimes bestowed in response to influences which are wholly beyond our comprehension. We conjecture that such bestowals are determined by some cosmic reflex action originating in the Supreme Being. As to why these Adjusters can not or do not fuse with these certain types of evolving mortal minds we do not know. Such transactions have never been revealed to us.
109:4.5 I have observed a Thought Adjuster indwelling a mind on Urantia who has, according to the records on Uversa, indwelt fifteen minds previously in Orvonton. We do not know whether this Monitor has had similar experiences in other superuniverses, but I suspect so. This is a marvelous Adjuster and one of the most useful and potent forces on Urantia during this present age. What others have lost, in that they refused to survive, this human being (and your whole world) now gains. From him who has not survival qualities, shall be taken away even that experienced Adjuster which he now has, while to him who has survival prospects, shall be given even the pre-experienced Adjuster of a slothful deserter.
112:5.15 During the transit of surviving mortals from the world of origin to the mansion worlds, whether they experience personality reassembly on the third period or ascend at the time of a group resurrection, the record of personality constitution is faithfully preserved by the archangels on their worlds of special activities. These beings are not the custodians of personality (as the guardian seraphim are of the soul), but it is nonetheless true that every identifiable factor of personality is effectually safeguarded in the custody of these dependable trustees of mortal survival. As to the exact whereabouts of mortal personality during the time intervening between death and survival, we do not know.
113:3.6 This is a recital of the manifold and intricate function of an attending seraphim; but how does such a subordinate angelic personality, created but a little above the universe level of humanity, do such difficult and complex things? We do not really know, but we conjecture that this phenomenal ministry is in some undisclosed manner facilitated by the unrecognized and unrevealed working of the Supreme Being, the actualizing Deity of the evolving universes of time and space. Throughout the entire realm of progressive survival in and through the Supreme Being, seraphim are an essential part of continuing mortal progression.
117:2.6 There will come an end sometime to the growth of the Supreme; his status will achieve completion (in the energy-spirit sense). This termination of the evolution of the Supreme will also witness the ending of creature evolution as a part of Supremacy. What kind of growth may characterize the universes of outer space, we do not know. But we are very sure that it will be something very different from anything that has been seen in the present age of the evolution of the seven superuniverses. It will undoubtedly be the function of the evolutionary citizens of the grand universe to compensate the outer-spacers for this deprivation of the growth of Supremacy.
117:7.16 It is possible that the Supreme may then be personally resident on Uversa, the headquarters of Orvonton, from which he will direct the administration of the time creations, but this is really only a conjecture. Certainly, though, the personality of the Supreme Being will be definitely contactable at some specific locality, although the ubiquity of his Deity presence will probably continue to permeate the universe of universes. What the relation of the superuniverse citizens of that age will be to the Supreme we do not know, but it may be something like the present relationship between the Havona natives and the Paradise Trinity.
119:1.6 And that is all I am permitted to tell you of the first bestowal of Michael. We, of course, fully understand that this strange Melchizedek who so mysteriously served with the Melchizedeks a billion years ago was none other than the incarnated Michael on the mission of his first bestowal. The records do not specifically state that this unique and efficient Melchizedek was Michael, but it is universally believed that he was. Probably the actual statement of that fact cannot be found outside of the records of Sonarington, and the records of that secret world are not open to us. Only on this sacred world of the divine Sons are the mysteries of incarnation and bestowal fully known. We all know of the facts of the Michael bestowals, but we do not understand how they are effected. We do not know how the ruler of a universe, the creator of the Melchizedeks, can so suddenly and mysteriously become one of their number and, as one of them, live among them and work as a Melchizedek Son for one hundred years. But it so happened.

Contents Scroll Top
From Part IV - The Life and Teachings of Jesus
Reference Quotation
168:1.7 Did the divine mind of Jesus know, even before Lazarus died, that he would raise him from the dead? We do not know. We know only what we are herewith placing on record.
173:2.5 And when his questioners heard this, they withdrew to one side to take counsel among themselves as to what answer they might give. They had thought to embarrass Jesus before the multitude, but now they found themselves much confused before all who were assembled at that time in the temple court. And their discomfiture was all the more apparent when they returned to Jesus, saying: "Concerning the baptism of John, we cannot answer; we do not know." And they so answered the Master because they had reasoned among themselves: If we shall say from heaven, then will he say, Why did you not believe him, and perchance will add that he received his authority from John; and if we shall say from men, then might the multitude turn upon us, for most of them hold that John was a prophet; and so they were compelled to come before Jesus and the people confessing that they, the religious teachers and leaders of Israel, could not (or would not) express an opinion about John's mission. And when they had spoken, Jesus, looking down upon them, said, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things."
176:4.5 We most positively believe that Michael will again come in person to Urantia, but we have not the slightest idea as to when or in what manner he may choose to come. Will his second advent on earth be timed to occur in connection with the terminal judgment of this present age, either with or without the associated appearance of a Magisterial Son? Will he come in connection with the termination of some subsequent Urantian age? Will he come unannounced and as an isolated event? We do not know. Only one thing we are certain of, that is, when he does return, all the world will likely know about it, for he must come as the supreme ruler of a universe and not as the obscure babe of Bethlehem. But if every eye is to behold him, and if only spiritual eyes are to discern his presence, then must his advent be long deferred.
180:3.6 When Jesus sat down, Thomas arose and said: "Master, we do not know where you are going; so of course we do not know the way. But we will follow you this very night if you will show us the way."
188:3.4 We are not able fully to explain just what happened to Jesus of Nazareth during this period of a day and a half when he was supposed to be resting in Joseph's new tomb. Apparently he died the same natural death on the cross as would any other mortal in the same circumstances. We heard him say, "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit." We do not fully understand the meaning of such a statement inasmuch as his Thought Adjuster had long since been personalized and so maintained an existence apart from Jesus' mortal being. The Master's Personalized Adjuster could in no sense be affected by his physical death on the cross. That which Jesus put in the Father's hands for the time being must have been the spirit counterpart of the Adjuster's early work in spiritizing the mortal mind so as to provide for the transfer of the transcript of the human experience to the mansion worlds. There must have been some spiritual reality in the experience of Jesus which was analogous to the spirit nature, or soul, of the faith-growing mortals of the spheres. But this is merely our opinion—we do not really know what Jesus commended to his Father.
188:3.8 3. The acquired spirit identity of the man of Nazareth which was built up during his lifetime in the flesh, first, by the direct efforts of his Thought Adjuster, and later, by his own perfect adjustment between the physical necessities and the spiritual requirements of the ideal mortal existence, as it was effected by his never-ceasing choice of the Father's will, must have been consigned to the custody of the Paradise Father. Whether or not this spirit reality returned to become a part of the resurrected personality, we do not know, but we believe it did. But there are those in the universe who hold that this soul-identity of Jesus now reposes in the "bosom of the Father," to be subsequently released for leadership of the Nebadon Corps of the Finality in their undisclosed destiny in connection with the uncreated universes of the unorganized realms of outer space.

Reference
The Urantia Papers

The phrase "we do not (really) know" occurs in 49 paragraphs.

These compendia of frequent phrases were assembled using: UB Search Online


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 727
Steve,

I forgot to mention that in my list I paraphrased the authors, which is why I cited references, so you can look up the actual words written. It's good to remember that nothing "touched" by humans is infallible.

Thanks, Katro


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3668
Don't let the priorities of others detour your own interests. 8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:44 am +0000
Posts: 341
Location: thailand
ok I said I only wanted to copy the list to my gmail so I could print it out at work as I have no printer at home - and then maybe have it for reference to read the verses - that is all I said on the first post - I have no hidden agenda for anything - am just on this forum only about the UB and am not writing or posting anything from this forum anywhere else - I see the list below is really quite good - only 49 - which is maybe very good then - not so bad at all - as I was thinking to myself and thought I had read more than that and that "Hey - they really SHOULD know this stuff !" but I think now that there is a super vast universe out there and maybe many things that are not all known by the UB writers - maybe not a huge amount but some anyway - and even tho they are high up beings it is not written by an Eternal Son or Michael or someone - but they must be very high up on some papers I know...Mighty Messengers and the like - anyway - all good

- and think you can search all that from the website with the great search engine it has
https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-st ... -and-space

no hidden agenda's from this Shrimp in thailand - I am just trying to get the big book read and osmosize it all
"Osmosize
The verb form of the word "Osmosis", meaning "The process of transfer of water from one side of a cell membrane to another."
or I should say the "process of transferring Thought and Truth from one side of a cell membrane to another" - not sure what THAT word might be tho ...hmmmm...
https://www.thoughtco.com/cell-membrane-373364
not sure how it all works but it looks pretty complicated...must have been some amazing being that put us all together


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3668
Pay no attention to Bonita's demands or suspicions. She's just another seeker with opinions and an apparent case of self admiration about her "list"...hers and hers alone!! Hahaha...

No worries. Anything posted here is available for copy and personal use. Posting copyrighted material (her list is not copyrighted nor can it be)can also be copied and used for any non-commercial purposes and can be shared anywhere else with anyone else for non-commercial purposes, and especially for educational reasons without any permissions. Compiled lists of contents from a published book cannot then be copyrighted by any list compiler. Bonita is way off the reservation...and rude to boot!! Shame on her.

Now...to osmosis!! It brings to mind three distinct universe reality functions which also act as a cellular membrane which allows some things to pass through and others to be blocked and prevented from passing. A filter. To the soul, the Supreme, and eternity.

Most filters are designed to prevent the passing of undesirable contents that are insoluble solids suspended in liquid down to a certain size. All particles above a certain size are filtered; it is not a selective or sorting process/filter.

But there are spirit filters which selectively prevent the passage of some things and do allow passage to other things. I agree with you that the biology of life is an amazing complex achievement of the Life Carriers but consider that organism and mechanism that allows every decision and act based on love, service, truth, beauty, and goodness to go directly to soul and the Supreme and to effect and infect all of creation with its nutrient rich contributions to the vitality and eternal nourishment of the totality of reality and AT THE SAME TIME prevents the passage of and long term effects of all impurities of evil, sin, iniquity, and from every form of even incompleteness and immaturity and mistiming and blindness and ignorance and superstition or false belief by which the true nutrients were delivered and polluted!!!

Every thought and act of love and loyalty is recognized, recorded, and eternalized. Every particle of pollutants is left behind to be marginalized and temporalized near its origin to fade and lose even any local effects over time.

All experience and expression that is desirable becomes eternal by this filtering process while all that is undesirable dies by its irrelevancy as it is abandoned and forsaken by reality and eternity will never know its existence in time.

Evolutionary progress and perfecting are the result of this filter which has many elements to consider which makes eternity impervious to the pollutants of progress in time.

Steve...just so you know....I am really enjoying your discovery of the UB and I am having so many awesome connections of context that are improving my perspective. It's a real good time for me lately...thanks to you. Every good student and every sincere question and honest inquiry results in great teaching by the student. Thank you Brother. You shine.

Bradly. 8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:52 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 727
shrimpythai wrote:
I see the list below is really quite good - only 49


Thanks Steve. 49? Here are two more. I haven't had a lot of time to work on the list lately, but I'll try to fit in some more time soon. I was doing it only for myself and had no idea anyone else would be interested, so thanks. You've given me some motivation.

45. If God the Sevenfold will be liberated for similar activities in outer space when the grand universe is settled in light and life. 56:7.6

46. What the disposition is to be made of the offspring of Adam and Eve who are now on Edentia; 75:6.3


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:44 am +0000
Posts: 341
Location: thailand
Bradly - thanks - yes I brought up "osmosize" for a point - that how amazing the material mortal body is as a mortal/material thing - but how does Truth and Spirit "omosize" - had a good friend (and still is) here in thailand - Mil who has since moved back to Oz with his thai wife - and Mil was a science major and teaching science here at thai schools but was a die hard evolutionist... man we had great talks - but he was always on about how we are now is just from "evolution" and I was like hey - something even happened around 5-6-7000 bc that could not be just evolution - mankind all of a sudden had all this info - farming- metal working - and how did they know all the star info - astrology - how did even the Mayan's have a 26,000 year calendar of the procession of the stars? the Dogon tribe in Africa knowing that the star Sirius is a double star - handed down word of mouth by the tribe for 2-3000 years - which we just found out last century - I mean really - for sure wasn't from "evolution" - anyway we had some great talks here over 6-7 years but i could not sway him - like i might say - Mil - so what if a being was only only made of Light and could travel by light or something - and he would say - no way - is not possible from a science standpoint or evolution ! or if I said hey - "what about a pure silicone being" - again - no way - not possible - could not exist - and would be give me 5 reasons why it was not scientifically possible... anyway - one of the few people I could have these talks with here while we had our little expat classic rock band together... but so stuck in the science rut... and yes how i could prove anything ? 5 5 5

but even science today is starting to come to grips with the Soul or some things they can't explain about the human brain or mind - some of it sad that they can't expand their own minds about something greater than just material flesh and blood and are blinded by the material and physical "laws"
oh well
also the Thiaoouba Prophecy mentions that even tho we have blood types - any human has a unique set of something in each person's blood that would act like a fingerprint - is unique to that one person - we just haven't found it yet - and also colors and sounds haven't been investigated enough to unlock stuff that we don't know about yet that is would be extremely more important than what we think - like certain say hi-pitched sounds being detrimental to our actual souls and beings - same with colors being vastly more important than we know about now - also affecting our souls and beings... anyway...

but was interesting on the cell thing - so yes we all have physical mortal material bodies - but yet we think and can know God and know that there is so much more out there in billions of inhabited planets and other star systems and galaxies... literally anything is possible in a material form - or even in a light being form or even a spiritual only being that can be light or not or just a pure Spirit form... limitless possibilities have kind of been opened after reading the UB - and with the details and history of it all to back up the claims - and also interesting - is NO talk of spaceships and material travelling ships or whatever as well - and I am a huge sci-fi book reading fan all my life really from 16-18 yrs old - was reading everything and any sci-fi book I could for many years... not too much the last years tho ...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 532 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 32, 33, 34, 35, 36  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Google [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group