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Celestials tell us that archrebels, and the lower order of divine beings that followed them into rebellion eventually will have their personality annihilated. I pose the question --is annihilation of personality objectively true, or subjectively so from the cosmos' point of view?

I posit there is a strong case to be made that personality extinction is a matter of perspective; from the cosmic point of view, the sin-identified personality becomes unreal, and eventually is terminated when iniquity continuously is pursued. But from the perspective self, does such a one come to an end?

I think it is hasty to conclude that annihilation or extinction of personality, within the context of the revelation papers, is defined as it is commonly understood to mean in our material world. When we are told these unrepentant beings have their personality destroyed, it begs the question, will they cease to exist or cease to exist to the cosmos?

Even though Lucifer and Satan are imprisoned in chambers of darkness, they are still accorded rights to visitation. Their personality, though confined, is granted to have contact with personalities outside the prison world, those willing to visit them. Consider the following:

Quote:
The greatest punishment (in reality an inevitable consequence) for wrongdoing and deliberate rebellion against the government of God is loss of existence as an individual subject of that government
(2:3.2)

I find the above statement thought provoking. The writer sets the foundation to explain the process of denying personality existence; it appears personality, from the Revelator's point of view, is associated with being a subject to the government of God. In essence, you are real to the cosmos when you are a member of the "host." And when you fall outside that, you no longer "exist." This reminds me of the Biblical judgment of the outcast; someone who is banned from his people and land.

The term "unperson" was introduced into our lexicon in the late 20th century. Are the Celestials actually describing the process of becoming an "unperson" regarding personality extinction?

In the below are definitions of the terms in question. Please review them as you ponder on this topic.

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B_B, the text is pretty clear. There's no wiggle room here that I can see:

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2:3.4 When this sentence is finally confirmed, the sin-identified being instantly becomes as though he had not been. There is no resurrection from such a fate; it is everlasting and eternal. The living energy factors of identity are resolved by the transformations of time and the metamorphoses of space into the cosmic potentials whence they once emerged. As for the personality of the iniquitous one, it is deprived of a continuing life vehicle by the creature's failure to make those choices and final decisions which would have assured eternal life. When the continued embrace of sin by the associated mind culminates in complete self-identification with iniquity, then upon the cessation of life, upon cosmic dissolution, such an isolated personality is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the evolving experience of the Supreme Being. Never again does it appear as a personality; its identity becomes as though it had never been. In the case of an Adjuster-indwelt personality, the experiential spirit values survive in the reality of the continuing Adjuster.

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Hello maryjo606,

You posted a pretty good reference that pushes me to delve deeper into the revelation...

In the very text you supplied, the personality is absorbed by the Supreme Being (SB), becoming an [active] part of his evolving nature. There does not appear to be cessation of personality as it is transferred to within SB. Could absorption of personality into the oversoul be likened to fusion of personality and TA? It is something to think about.

I will parse out the text to show you how I read it...


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2:3.4 (37.2) As for the personality of the iniquitous one, it is deprived of a continuing life vehicle by the creature’s failure to make those choices and final decisions which would have assured eternal life.


The life vehicle is a morontial or spiritual body needed to exist in Orvonton above the order of mortality. These iniquitous ones will not be provided a body which is needed to interact with personalities in Orvonton.



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...such an isolated personality is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the evolving experience of the Supreme Being.


Personality is not lost from the perspective of SB; he "absorbs" it and personality becomes a part of his nature. In what state does personality exists within him and does he project this relationship between itself and the personality into a to-be-created universe? I do not know.

I will revisit this thread at a later date as I have to do more research on SB. But what I have gathered thus far is personality is not annihilated out of ALL existence.

I would think of it this way. I have a plate of food. I want to share it with my friend, Richard. Richard is not fond of the contents of the plate, so he passes on the offer. I eat the plate of food on my own. To Richard, the food ceases to exist after I consumed it. However, the food continues to exist in me, imparting its health benefits to nourish my body. It is a crude analogy, admittedly.

I am taken back to my original postulate, that is, annihilation is likely a relative experience.

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In my view, you may be over-thinking this topic, although it is interesting to try and figure out just what happens to that extinguished personality - where does it go? But it has made me take a bit of a stretch myself...thinking is good.

Personality is the gift of God - the Father of personality. All personality resides in him, except as he bestows it on his children. In my understanding, only those personalities that identify with him and his holy will can attain perfection and return to him in eternity. You wonder:

Quote:
Could absorption of personality into the oversoul be likened to fusion of personality and TA?


I don't think so. Personality is personal; the TA is pre-personal, and achieves personality only as it is fused with the personality of the willing possessor of that personality. I don't see how the analogy that you pose can be compared to that. Because...

God the Supreme is a personal deity:

Quote:
4. God the Supreme—the actualizing or evolving God of time and space. Personal Deity associatively realizing the time-space experiential achievement of creature-Creator identity. The Supreme Being is personally experiencing the achievement of Deity unity as the evolving and experiential God of the evolutionary creatures of time and space.


As such, he does not absorb that personality of extinction in the same way as the TA and the personality of man achieve fusion.

In my understanding, he absorbs it - perhaps using any goodness in it - for his further evolution. And perhaps the extinguished personality then does have the potential for complete perfection - or at any event unification - in HIS deity nature. As in this quote:

Quote:
115:7.6 God the Supreme does not appear to have been inevitable in unqualified infinity, but he seems to be on all relativity levels. He is the indispensable focalizer, summarizer, and encompasser of evolutionary experience, effectively unifying the results of this mode of reality perception in his Deity nature. And all this he appears to do for the purpose of contributing to the appearance of the inevitable eventuation, the superexperience and superfinite manifestation of God the Ultimate


And this one:

Quote:
117:4.2 Throughout the grand universe the Supreme struggles for expression. His divine evolution is in measure predicated on the wisdom-action of every personality in existence. When a human being chooses eternal survival, he is cocreating destiny; and in the life of this ascending mortal the finite God finds an increased measure of personality self-realization and an enlargement of experiential sovereignty. But if a creature rejects the eternal career, that part of the Supreme which was dependent on this creature’s choice experiences inescapable delay, a deprivation which must be compensated by substitutional or collateral experience; as for the personality of the nonsurvivor, it is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the Deity of the Supreme.


Nothing of value is ever lost in God's creation. This explains to me how even an extinguished personality can be used for ultimate good. I think it satisfies your "plate of food" analogy, too, with "personality" representing the food, "you" representing the Supreme:

Quote:
To Richard, the food ceases to exist after I consumed it. However, the food continues to exist in me, imparting its health benefits to nourish my body.


Also great reading here: The Oversoul of Creation https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-117-god-the-supreme#U117_5_0

MaryJo


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You have put forward really good points for me to consider. I will ponder on them, do more research on SB and revisit this thread. Thanks for the feedback!




maryjo606 wrote:
In my view, you may be over-thinking this topic, although it is interesting to try and figure out just what happens to that extinguished personality - where does it go? But it has made me take a bit of a stretch myself...thinking is good.

Personality is the gift of God - the Father of personality. All personality resides in him, except as he bestows it on his children. In my understanding, only those personalities that identify with him and his holy will can attain perfection and return to him in eternity. You wonder:

Quote:
Could absorption of personality into the oversoul be likened to fusion of personality and TA?


I don't think so. Personality is personal; the TA is pre-personal, and achieves personality only as it is fused with the personality of the willing possessor of that personality. I don't see how the analogy that you pose can be compared to that. Because...

God the Supreme is a personal deity:

Quote:
4. God the Supreme—the actualizing or evolving God of time and space. Personal Deity associatively realizing the time-space experiential achievement of creature-Creator identity. The Supreme Being is personally experiencing the achievement of Deity unity as the evolving and experiential God of the evolutionary creatures of time and space.


As such, he does not absorb that personality of extinction in the same way as the TA and the personality of man achieve fusion.

In my understanding, he absorbs it - perhaps using any goodness in it - for his further evolution. And perhaps the extinguished personality then does have the potential for complete perfection - or at any event unification - in HIS deity nature. As in this quote:

Quote:
115:7.6 God the Supreme does not appear to have been inevitable in unqualified infinity, but he seems to be on all relativity levels. He is the indispensable focalizer, summarizer, and encompasser of evolutionary experience, effectively unifying the results of this mode of reality perception in his Deity nature. And all this he appears to do for the purpose of contributing to the appearance of the inevitable eventuation, the superexperience and superfinite manifestation of God the Ultimate


And this one:

Quote:
117:4.2 Throughout the grand universe the Supreme struggles for expression. His divine evolution is in measure predicated on the wisdom-action of every personality in existence. When a human being chooses eternal survival, he is cocreating destiny; and in the life of this ascending mortal the finite God finds an increased measure of personality self-realization and an enlargement of experiential sovereignty. But if a creature rejects the eternal career, that part of the Supreme which was dependent on this creature’s choice experiences inescapable delay, a deprivation which must be compensated by substitutional or collateral experience; as for the personality of the nonsurvivor, it is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the Deity of the Supreme.


Nothing of value is ever lost in God's creation. This explains to me how even an extinguished personality can be used for ultimate good. I think it satisfies your "plate of food" analogy, too, with "personality" representing the food, "you" representing the Supreme:

Quote:
To Richard, the food ceases to exist after I consumed it. However, the food continues to exist in me, imparting its health benefits to nourish my body.


Also great reading here: The Oversoul of Creation https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-117-god-the-supreme#U117_5_0

MaryJo

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