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The UB says that Michael is the personification of the 611,121 original concept of infinite identity of simultaneous origin in the Universal Father and the Eternal Son. So, does this mean there are at least 611,121 Michaels and that each has his own universe?

Also, the UB says that Lucifer was a Bright Morning Star and that the Bright Morning Stars are the first concept of identity and ideal of personality conceived by the Creator Son and the local universe manifestation of the Infinite Spirit. So, if Lucifer is a Bright Morning Star and Gabriel is a Bright Morning Star then one of them had to be the first in this universe and the other had to come from another Michael and another universe, right?


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I think you are right that there is only one Bright Morning Star for each Local Universe, in our case Gabriel. But Lucifer, Satan and Caligastia are Lanonandek Sons, aren't they? Though the term "brilliant" seems to be often used to describe any of them as individuals. Another unrelated order is the Brilliant Evening Stars, who should probably not be confused with either of the earlier mentioned types.


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Dook wrote:
The UB says that Michael is the personification of the 611,121 original concept of infinite identity of simultaneous origin in the Universal Father and the Eternal Son. So, does this mean there are at least 611,121 Michaels and that each has his own universe?

Also, the UB says that Lucifer was a Bright Morning Star and that the Bright Morning Stars are the first concept of identity and ideal of personality conceived by the Creator Son and the local universe manifestation of the Infinite Spirit. So, if Lucifer is a Bright Morning Star and Gabriel is a Bright Morning Star then one of them had to be the first in this universe and the other had to come from another Michael and another universe, right?


No...not right. The UB does not say any such thing about Lucifer who is not and never was a Bright and Morning Star. There are 700,000 Local Universes with one Michael/Creator Son each. And one Gabriel or first born per Local Universe and they do not transfer.

Lucifer is a much lower level of being in order of sonship as Riktare said. Paper 53 describes Lucifer as a brilliant (small b adjective) personality and brilliant primary Lanonadek Son....not a Brilliant Morning Star.


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:56 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Dook is technically correct. The UB Revelator acknowledges Lucifer as a Morning Star by referencing an older revelation and giving it credence. The Revelator states the following:

53:1.3 (601.5) ... Your olden prophet saw his sad estate when he wrote: “How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds!”

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Dook is technically correct. The UB Revelator acknowledges Lucifer as a Morning Star by referencing an older revelation and giving it credence. The Revelator states the following:

53:1.3 (601.5) ... Your olden prophet saw his sad estate when he wrote: “How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds!”


Technically...correct? The UB does not "say" this...it's a Bible quote, which also does not call Lucifer a or the Bright and Morning Star.

Thanks for the reference though...very helpful.


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:17 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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You are wrong. The Revelator references earlier works that identify Michael, also, as a Morning Star to confirm Michael of Nebadon's sonship, the Bright and Morning Star. In essence, Morning Star is an earlier version of the more recent Bright and Morning Star; Morning Star = Bright and Morning Star. See below:


7:6.1 (87.6) The lack of a knowledge of the multiple Sons of God is a source of great confusion on Urantia. And this ignorance persists in the face of such statements as the record of a conclave of these divine personalities: “When the Sons of God proclaimed joy, and all of the Morning Stars sang together.”



fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Dook is technically correct. The UB Revelator acknowledges Lucifer as a Morning Star by referencing an older revelation and giving it credence. The Revelator states the following:

53:1.3 (601.5) ... Your olden prophet saw his sad estate when he wrote: “How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds!”


Technically...right? The UB does not "say" this...it's a Bible quote, which also does not call Lucifer a or the Bright and Morning Star.

Thanks for the reference though...very helpful.

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Last edited by brooklyn_born on Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:23 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
You are wrong. The Revelator references earlier works that identify Michael, also, as a Morning Star to confirm Michael of Nebadon's sonship, the Bright and Morning Star. In essence, Morning Star is an earlier version of Bright and Morning Star; Morning Star = Bright and Morning Star. See below:


7:6.1 (87.6) The lack of a knowledge of the multiple Sons of God is a source of great confusion on Urantia. And this ignorance persists in the face of such statements as the record of a conclave of these divine personalities: “When the Sons of God proclaimed joy, and all of the Morning Stars sang together.”



fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Dook is technically correct. The UB Revelator acknowledges Lucifer as a Morning Star by referencing an older revelation and giving it credence. The Revelator states the following:

53:1.3 (601.5) ... Your olden prophet saw his sad estate when he wrote: “How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How are you cast down, you who dared to confuse the worlds!”


Technically...right? The UB does not "say" this...it's a Bible quote, which also does not call Lucifer a or the Bright and Morning Star.

Thanks for the reference though...very helpful.


Yes....and again another Bible quote illustrating a "lack of knowledge". What the UB "says" is specific....and clear....and again thanks for the quote. The UB is a gift to reduce such confusions and eliminate such errors.

Should we perpetuate inaccuracy? Continue confusion? Is the UB somehow unclear? Nope.

Dook has made it clear he/she (?) wants no sugar coating or coddling...as I recall.

In that regard....the term celestial, and NOT angels, is the correct and accurate term for morontial beings created in time and space. Angels are a specific class and form and origin and functionality group or subset of celestials...the seraphim. And so are Material Sons and Lanonandeks and Ancients, etc.


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:36 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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Take it up with the Revelator. They are the ones quoting earlier works to validate their revelation.

fanofVan wrote:

Yes....and again another Bible quote illustrating a "lack of knowledge". What the UB "says" is specific....and clear....and again thanks for the quote. The UB is a gift to reduce such confusions and eliminate such errors.

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700,000 Michael Sons

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You mean that there are intended to eventually be 700,000 Creator Sons in the Master Universe? At the moment there are less than that because the Master Universe is still in formation, right?


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IMO all Creator Sons and Local Universes and all archetectural spheres have been created, but not all of the inhabited evolutionary worlds are yet considered inhabited. Just speculation.


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I suppose that means we should call unassigned Michaels "Michael Sons" without calling them Creator Sons until they start building their own universes. (It could be that the conditions in parts of the super-universes haven't matured to the point that the energy is available to start creating local universes )


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Riktare wrote:
I suppose that means we should call unassigned Michaels "Michael Sons" without calling them Creator Sons until they start building their own universes. (It could be that the conditions in parts of the super-universes haven't matured to the point that the energy is available to start creating local universes )



Perhaps you are thinking of the outer space levels? I think all 700,000 Local Universes within the 7 Super Universes are already under full creative supervision of their assigned Creator Son. Perhaps you know of a quote which indicates otherwise? Whatever the roles and destinies of Michael Sons beyond 700,000, they appear to be subject to speculation for the Perfector of Wisdom author of Paper 21. But I found this:

21:1.4 (235.3) I do not know the exact number of Creator Sons in existence, but I have good reasons for believing that there are more than seven hundred thousand. Now, we know that there are exactly seven hundred thousand Unions of Days and no more are being created. We also observe that the ordained plans of the present universe age seem to indicate that one Union of Days is to be stationed in each local universe as the counseling ambassador of the Trinity. We note further that the constantly increasing number of Creator Sons already exceeds the stationary number of the Unions of Days. But concerning the destiny of the Michaels beyond seven hundred thousand, we have never been informed.

8)


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Sure, but we have also the relative certainty of 700,00 Master Creator Sons which may mark a type of emergence within the self-actualisation of the Supreme Being. It is all the same to me. The remaining 80,000 or so Michael Sons bear the same promise and potential. :wink: I take it for granted that if they are yet only the Vicegerent Ambassadors of God, they will yet gain the authority to represent the Supreme Being in their local universes.

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