Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:18 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 178 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:13 pm +0000
Posts: 88
Agon D. Onter wrote:
Dook wrote:
Maryjo started a topic six years ago about the James Webb Telescope and how it would support the ideas in the UB but she did not know that the entire big bang theory was based upon the 13.8 billion year number and that anything farther out than that would bring the theory down. Nor did anyone else realize that because that thread did not have any other posts to follow.


That's just one thread. There have been many threads on the topic of the Big Bang theory on this forum with lots of participants engaging in lively discussion about the Big Bang theory (it's never been more than just a theory, therefore, subject to being proven wrong as acknowledged by calling it a "theory").

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4439

The big bang theory has never been more than a theory? A theory that the last 60 years of physics is based upon. It's accepted science.

You have no science background at all, do you? I never understand that, you believe in God but you don't study science. It's because you want others to figure it out and explain it to you. You don't want to have to do the work.

And, the thread you posted about the UB and the big bang, I read the posts, most are an attempt to make the UB and the big bang AGREE. One post by someone named Bart suggested that the UB and the big bang do not necessarily agree.

I'm telling you the big bang never happened.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 364
fanofVan how do you know that angeln do not create??????? Aren't there even myriad orders of angeln unrevealed but alluded in the urantia papers? You do not have knowledge of these beings.

I mean I accept Dook' opinion "Only God may create". But I don't agree with it. Where are you coming from?

_________________
to the underlaying unity of all life
so that the voice of intuition may guide us
closer to our common keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 2255
Hello SEla!

An interesting topic...but not topical to the discussion here. I will say that I believe that all personalities with free will are creative. Dook's limited perspective is that no being other than God "creates" anything at all or anything original. I can understand this point of view but I think it limited and flawed. So...I do not agree with Dook but I understand his inaccurate claims. Which means that seraphim are indeed creative as you point out...I agree with you!!

To create can mean the creation of the elements and tools of creation (the material building blocks) and the creation of the mind, spirit, personality, etc. of the beings who then organize, manage, manipulate, arrange, and otherwise interact with the elements and tools of creation...or to create can also mean the organization, management, manipulation, arrangement, interaction, and expression of one's experience, insight, feelings, and thoughts related thereto. Seraphim and mortal are very creative!! The universe is a cauldron of creativity...ceaseless and endless into eternity itself!!

We create potential and realize potential creatively which creates evermore potential! Personality and mind and free will combine to create inherent creativity. Even plants and animals are creative...due to the basic impulse of life to adapt and perfect....the most basic forms of life are creative due to the work of the Life Carriers and the Adjutants.


Personally, I reject Dook's narrow definition....and I think the UB does too! A keyword search link for "create OR creative":

https://urantia-association.org/search/ ... t%5B%5D=-1

For those who doubt or merely wonder about how creative are each and every and all beings throughout the Master Universe, including mortals, please do read and review the nearly 400 quotes on the topic with the link above!! Wondrous!

Further evidence that Dook defies and contradicts the UB.


5:6.7 [Part I]
The material self has personality and identity, temporal identity; the prepersonal spirit Adjuster also has identity, eternal identity. This material personality and this spirit prepersonality are capable of so uniting their creative attributes as to bring into existence the surviving identity of the immortal soul.

8:3.4 [Part I]
A Creator Son of the Eternal Son and a Creative Spirit of the Infinite Spirit created you and your universe; and while the Father in faithfulness upholds that which they have organized, it devolves upon this Universe Son and this Universe Spirit to foster and sustain their work as well as to minister to the creatures of their own making.

12:5.5 [Part I]
Relationships to time do not exist without motion in space, but consciousness of time does. Sequentiality can consciousize time even in the absence of motion. Man's mind is less time-bound than space-bound because of the inherent nature of mind. Even during the days of the earth life in the flesh, though man's mind is rigidly space-bound, the creative human imagination is comparatively time free. But time itself is not genetically a quality of mind.

16:4.10 [Part I]
2. The life activations of the adjutant mind-spirits bestowed upon the worlds by a local universe Creative Spirit.

16:4.13 [Part I]
5. The bestowal of the ministry spirit of a local universe Creative Spirit, known on Urantia as the Holy Spirit.


42:12.1 [Part II]
The evolution of mechanisms implies and indicates the concealed presence and dominance of creative mind. The ability of the mortal intellect to conceive, design, and create automatic mechanisms demonstrates the superior, creative, and purposive qualities of man's mind as the dominant influence on the planet......

42:12.9 [Part II]
Mind is always creative. The mind endowment of an individual animal, mortal, morontian, spirit ascender, or finality attainer is always competent to produce a suitable and serviceable body for the living creature identity. But the presence phenomenon of a personality or the pattern of an identity, as such, is not a manifestation of energy, either physical, mindal, or spiritual. The personality form is the pattern aspect of a living being; it connotes the arrangement of energies, and this, plus life and motion, is the mechanism of creature existence.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:13 pm +0000
Posts: 88
fanofVan wrote:
Hello SEla!

An interesting topic...but not topical to the discussion here. I will say that I believe that all personalities with free will are creative. Dook's limited perspective is that no being other than God "creates" anything at all or anything original. I can understand this point of view but I think it limited and flawed. So...I do not agree with Dook but I understand his inaccurate claims. Which means that seraphim are indeed creative as you point out...I agree with you!!

To create can mean the creation of the elements and tools of creation (the material building blocks) and the creation of the mind, spirit, personality, etc. of the beings who then organize, manage, manipulate, arrange, and otherwise interact with the elements and tools of creation...or to create can also mean the organization, management, manipulation, arrangement, interaction, and expression of one's experience, insight, feelings, and thoughts related thereto. Seraphim and mortal are very creative!! The universe is a cauldron of creativity...ceaseless and endless into eternity itself!!

We create potential and realize potential creatively which creates evermore potential! Personality and mind and free will combine to create inherent creativity. Even plants and animals are creative...due to the basic impulse of life to adapt and perfect....the most basic forms of life are creative due to the work of the Life Carriers and the Adjutants.


Personally, I reject Dook's narrow definition....and I think the UB does too! A keyword search link for "create OR creative":

https://urantia-association.org/search/ ... t%5B%5D=-1

For those who doubt or merely wonder about how creative are each and every and all beings throughout the Master Universe, including mortals, please do read and review the nearly 400 quotes on the topic with the link above!! Wondrous!

Further evidence that Dook defies and contradicts the UB.


5:6.7 [Part I]
The material self has personality and identity, temporal identity; the prepersonal spirit Adjuster also has identity, eternal identity. This material personality and this spirit prepersonality are capable of so uniting their creative attributes as to bring into existence the surviving identity of the immortal soul.

8:3.4 [Part I]
A Creator Son of the Eternal Son and a Creative Spirit of the Infinite Spirit created you and your universe; and while the Father in faithfulness upholds that which they have organized, it devolves upon this Universe Son and this Universe Spirit to foster and sustain their work as well as to minister to the creatures of their own making.

12:5.5 [Part I]
Relationships to time do not exist without motion in space, but consciousness of time does. Sequentiality can consciousize time even in the absence of motion. Man's mind is less time-bound than space-bound because of the inherent nature of mind. Even during the days of the earth life in the flesh, though man's mind is rigidly space-bound, the creative human imagination is comparatively time free. But time itself is not genetically a quality of mind.

16:4.10 [Part I]
2. The life activations of the adjutant mind-spirits bestowed upon the worlds by a local universe Creative Spirit.

16:4.13 [Part I]
5. The bestowal of the ministry spirit of a local universe Creative Spirit, known on Urantia as the Holy Spirit.


42:12.1 [Part II]
The evolution of mechanisms implies and indicates the concealed presence and dominance of creative mind. The ability of the mortal intellect to conceive, design, and create automatic mechanisms demonstrates the superior, creative, and purposive qualities of man's mind as the dominant influence on the planet......

42:12.9 [Part II]
Mind is always creative. The mind endowment of an individual animal, mortal, morontian, spirit ascender, or finality attainer is always competent to produce a suitable and serviceable body for the living creature identity. But the presence phenomenon of a personality or the pattern of an identity, as such, is not a manifestation of energy, either physical, mindal, or spiritual. The personality form is the pattern aspect of a living being; it connotes the arrangement of energies, and this, plus life and motion, is the mechanism of creature existence.


Then what does God do when He forms something from nothing? What would you call it?

Is it the same as an artist who smears paint on a canvas? Is it the same as you painting your baby's room baby blue just like millions of other people? Is it the same as writing a song using the same notes as every other song?

God brings forth something from nothing.

You belittle God when you claim to create. Humans can't create, nor have you ever, or will you ever, create a single thing. But your inflated ego won't let you accept that.

How about posting something that you've "created?" Let us see it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 2255
Dook wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
Dook wrote:
Maryjo started a topic six years ago about the James Webb Telescope and how it would support the ideas in the UB but she did not know that the entire big bang theory was based upon the 13.8 billion year number and that anything farther out than that would bring the theory down. Nor did anyone else realize that because that thread did not have any other posts to follow.


That's just one thread. There have been many threads on the topic of the Big Bang theory on this forum with lots of participants engaging in lively discussion about the Big Bang theory (it's never been more than just a theory, therefore, subject to being proven wrong as acknowledged by calling it a "theory").

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4439

The big bang theory has never been more than a theory? A theory that the last 60 years of physics is based upon. It's accepted science.

You have no science background at all, do you? I never understand that, you believe in God but you don't study science. It's because you want others to figure it out and explain it to you. You don't want to have to do the work.

And, the thread you posted about the UB and the big bang, I read the posts, most are an attempt to make the UB and the big bang AGREE. One post by someone named Bart suggested that the UB and the big bang do not necessarily agree.

I'm telling you the big bang never happened.



Why so deceitful? Every serious student of the UB (and Yoder is not one - the only voice in support of the bb) has agreed for 60 years that the BB theory is a false theoretical construct doomed to oblivion....and every single voice at the link provided AGREES with that conclusion, including Makalu, myself, Bart, Coop, J Berry, loucol, boomshuka, quill...and more. Having comprehension problems there Dook?

Of course the bb is a crock. Who doesn't know that? I even posted a long secular and opposing scientific theoretical refutation. What's up with you dude?

:roll:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:13 pm +0000
Posts: 88
fanofVan wrote:


Why so deceitful? Every serious student of the UB (and Yoder is not one - the only voice in support of the bb) has agreed for 60 years that the BB theory is a false theoretical construct doomed to oblivion....and every single voice at the link provided AGREES with that conclusion, including Makalu, myself, Bart, Coop, J Berry, loucol, boomshuka, quill...and more. Having comprehension problems there Dook?

Of course the bb is a crock. Who doesn't know that? I even posted a long secular and opposing scientific theoretical refutation. What's up with you dude?

:roll:


Incorrect. You tried to get into the discussion but you didn't know enough to discuss it.

Yoder argued for the BB.

Makalu said he was not a fan of the BB.

Bart argued that as long as the BB theory is compatible with the UB's space respiration it's okay.

Quil expressed problems with the BB but did not go as far as saying it was incorrect.

Loucol then posted the title of a book "The Big Bang Never Happened."

You argued that discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning? Please provide a reference for these supposed discoveries because you obviously greatly misunderstood them.

Then you go on to attempt to explain a singularity. The singularity is hotly debated by physicists, some support it, some don't. I wouldn't consider it accepted science.

Then you go on to explain inflation but fail to notice that it violates the law of gravity, probably because you don't have a science background and you were just looking the big bang up on a science website.

Then you explain that after the big bang there was an expansion, again, you are just copying from the science website and fail to understand that the scientists came up with the inflation idea in order to get the matter away from other matter so that gravity would not cause it all to collapse. And it's wrong, well, sort of wrong because the universe is expanding, just not after a big bang.

Then you use the balloon inflating analogy, my astronomy professor in college loved that one, except you fail to realize that if that were true then all the matter in the universe would only be located in an expanding sphere with an empty center and that's not what we see in space. Matter is very evenly distributed.

Then you point out that the big bang formed not just all the matter but space itself. You got that from the science website and it's not true because there was no big bang.

The big bang is not taught by the UB but you fail to point that out. In fact, at the end you simply try to say that the BB is only a "theory" when it's absolutely accepted science.

You went on and on repeating information from the science website and you never once stated that it did not really happen that way even though the UB says that angels form matter from emergent energy.

Then you posted two criticisms of the big bang but neither one is by you, they are by two physicists, probably because you have no idea how to criticize the big bang. You didn't realize that expanding matter would cause an empty center. You didn't realize that a singularity would be a black hole and that gravity would never allow it to inflate.

You get into discussions that you know nothing about. That would be like me trying to explain handbag styles to a rich woman.

Hope I get this in before I get banned. Maybe one or two more posts from me before I go to someplace that's more popular.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 2255
8)

Edited by Bradly


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:26 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 2255
8)


Edited by Bradly.


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:26 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 2255
On the question at hand my non-scientific and uneducated opinion is that godless science will never explain the beginning of time, space, matter, energy, etc...or its motions or its destiny...not without mind and spirit as origin and manager. The BB is simplistic and naive...at best. Who among UB students would not know this??!!

The scientific method will lead to God....eventually....as the UB says. Until then it will mislead us slowly, intermittently, staggeringly, circularly, and unpredictably toward God. The method does one thing better than any other...the next discovery which disproves prior theories which are an attempt to explain earlier discoveries and now demand new theories! The method is relentless and will ultimately lead to the material facts of reality...and there God will be found by science!

8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:28 am +0000, edited 6 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 2255
Dook wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
Hello SEla!

An interesting topic...but not topical to the discussion here. I will say that I believe that all personalities with free will are creative. Dook's limited perspective is that no being other than God "creates" anything at all or anything original. I can understand this point of view but I think it limited and flawed. So...I do not agree with Dook but I understand his inaccurate claims. Which means that seraphim are indeed creative as you point out...I agree with you!!

To create can mean the creation of the elements and tools of creation (the material building blocks) and the creation of the mind, spirit, personality, etc. of the beings who then organize, manage, manipulate, arrange, and otherwise interact with the elements and tools of creation...or to create can also mean the organization, management, manipulation, arrangement, interaction, and expression of one's experience, insight, feelings, and thoughts related thereto. Seraphim and mortal are very creative!! The universe is a cauldron of creativity...ceaseless and endless into eternity itself!!

We create potential and realize potential creatively which creates evermore potential! Personality and mind and free will combine to create inherent creativity. Even plants and animals are creative...due to the basic impulse of life to adapt and perfect....the most basic forms of life are creative due to the work of the Life Carriers and the Adjutants.


Personally, I reject Dook's narrow definition....and I think the UB does too! A keyword search link for "create OR creative":

https://urantia-association.org/search/ ... t%5B%5D=-1

For those who doubt or merely wonder about how creative are each and every and all beings throughout the Master Universe, including mortals, please do read and review the nearly 400 quotes on the topic with the link above!! Wondrous!

Further evidence that Dook defies and contradicts the UB.


5:6.7 [Part I]
The material self has personality and identity, temporal identity; the prepersonal spirit Adjuster also has identity, eternal identity. This material personality and this spirit prepersonality are capable of so uniting their creative attributes as to bring into existence the surviving identity of the immortal soul.

8:3.4 [Part I]
A Creator Son of the Eternal Son and a Creative Spirit of the Infinite Spirit created you and your universe; and while the Father in faithfulness upholds that which they have organized, it devolves upon this Universe Son and this Universe Spirit to foster and sustain their work as well as to minister to the creatures of their own making.

12:5.5 [Part I]
Relationships to time do not exist without motion in space, but consciousness of time does. Sequentiality can consciousize time even in the absence of motion. Man's mind is less time-bound than space-bound because of the inherent nature of mind. Even during the days of the earth life in the flesh, though man's mind is rigidly space-bound, the creative human imagination is comparatively time free. But time itself is not genetically a quality of mind.

16:4.10 [Part I]
2. The life activations of the adjutant mind-spirits bestowed upon the worlds by a local universe Creative Spirit.

16:4.13 [Part I]
5. The bestowal of the ministry spirit of a local universe Creative Spirit, known on Urantia as the Holy Spirit.


42:12.1 [Part II]
The evolution of mechanisms implies and indicates the concealed presence and dominance of creative mind. The ability of the mortal intellect to conceive, design, and create automatic mechanisms demonstrates the superior, creative, and purposive qualities of man's mind as the dominant influence on the planet......

42:12.9 [Part II]
Mind is always creative. The mind endowment of an individual animal, mortal, morontian, spirit ascender, or finality attainer is always competent to produce a suitable and serviceable body for the living creature identity. But the presence phenomenon of a personality or the pattern of an identity, as such, is not a manifestation of energy, either physical, mindal, or spiritual. The personality form is the pattern aspect of a living being; it connotes the arrangement of energies, and this, plus life and motion, is the mechanism of creature existence.


Then what does God do when He forms something from nothing? What would you call it?

Is it the same as an artist who smears paint on a canvas? Is it the same as you painting your baby's room baby blue just like millions of other people? Is it the same as writing a song using the same notes as every other song?

God brings forth something from nothing.

You belittle God when you claim to create. Humans can't create, nor have you ever, or will you ever, create a single thing. But your inflated ego won't let you accept that.

How about posting something that you've "created?" Let us see it.



Actually I'm not claiming anything at all....just quoting and posting the UB....all mind is creative, inherently so and by design. This is how God created mind...to be creative and expressive and progressive in its experience.


It's funny you say I "belittle God"....when it is you here who criticizes God endlessly and claim to be wiser than God and tell us what your universe would be like and how much better it than God's universe. You would create "evolved" beings without evolution! But not mortals who are mere abandoned animals endangered by physics and free will. Dook would have creation be without Creator Sons and their so called failures and faults and that of the Most Highs who Dook claims to have mismanaged Urantia and left us here alone, without help and ministry. In DookLand there would be no unique and creative expressions of the discovery of truth, beauty, and goodness in a progressing and perfecting universe so no Supreme and no destiny and no adventure of uncertainty....no, Dook demands everything be perfect all at once!

And you say I belittle God???!!! The hubris you have displayed here has been rather amazing in its scale and scope!


No I do not belittle God...this tadpole is thankful for life and the truth, beauty, and goodness that abounds even here on this small sphere in this far corner of creation, where God's love finds us still and guides ever forward to our planetary and personal destinies.


And where we have been given this gift of epochal import to teach us about the realities of the universe and the ministering Spirits who guide us and care for us in their own creative and loving ways. I am gladsome to be here amongst others who appreciate the Revelation and work daily to grow soul and give expression to our hopes, ideals, trust, faith, and experiences in the Spirit.


Thanks be to God for God's purpose, power, plan, methods, and creation. It's a wonderful life in a friendly universe....or it can be and it is for those whose faith is sufficient and whose branch is attached to the vine and through whom God's love flows. Wondrous!


My hope is that everyone finds that peace of mind and absolute security of self and the joyful adventure of discovery and expression of the assurance of salvation that is available to every being and child of time.


:!: Bradly


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 am +0000
Posts: 704
fanofVan wrote:
Thanks be to God for God's purpose, power, plan, methods, and creation. It's a wonderful life in a friendly universe....or it can be and it is for those whose faith is sufficient and whose branch is attached to the vine and through whom God's love flows. Wondrous!


In reflection on the calamity of the last few days here, it seems so very simple to be part of the forward struggle or rather choose to depart from it. We should know, shouldn't we? That the forward struggle means jumping across the broken beams of the bridge to the land at the other side even when the rational, conscious convention bound mind cannot condone such a leap. Forward progress requires rather courageous efforts on the part of the human personality and its willingness to respond positively and enthusiastically to the adjuster's leading?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:00 pm +0000
Posts: 662
Location: Savannah GA
Good Afternoon: Rictare is correct. Some people need to take a chill pill here. Y'all know, Mansion World 101 is learning to get along with your fellows. Now for sure, we got some real smart science types here, and that's great. But when you gotta hold your super sciencey selves above your fellows just to... I don't know, just to what? Well, that's pretty much a fail. When folks get all self righteous and high and mighty, that's kind of just like Jesus told us all not to do, you know what I mean? I am really proud of everyone who spends the effort to learn all about whatever aspect of science that interests them. Me, I dig paleontology (pun intended). And I have my own opinions on the Urantia Book and what it says about dinosaurs, but I try hard not to flog other people here with them.
From where I stand, the human race is still just scratching the surface of science. We have just entered the scientific age. And it gonna be a great age! Big Bangs, artificial intelligence, genetics, robotics, medicine, physics, math... you name it, its all going down right now. And its a lot of fun to watch and learn what you can about things.
So have fun out there, but be nice to your fellows. We all have something to learn from one another.
Al


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Our abnormal planet
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 364
"10. Herod Acts
122.10.1 But the watchers for Herod were not inactive. When they reported to him the visit of the priests of Ur to Bethlehem, Herod summoned these Chaldeans to appear before him. He inquired diligently of these wise men about the new “king of the Jews,” but they gave him little satisfaction, explaining that the babe had been born of a woman who had come down to Bethlehem with her husband for the census enrollment. Herod, not being satisfied with this answer, sent them forth with a purse and directed that they should find the child so that he too might come and worship him, since they had declared that his kingdom was to be spiritual, not temporal. But when the wise men did not return, Herod grew suspicious. As he turned these things over in his mind, his informers returned and made full report of the recent occurrences in the temple, bringing him a copy of parts of the Simeon song which had been sung at the redemption ceremonies of Jesus. But they had failed to follow Joseph and Mary, and Herod was very angry with them when they could not tell him whither the pair had taken the babe. He then dispatched searchers to locate Joseph and Mary. Knowing Herod pursued the Nazareth family, Zacharias and Elizabeth remained away from Bethlehem. The boy baby was secreted with Joseph's relatives.

122.10.2 Joseph was afraid to seek work, and their small savings were rapidly disappearing. Even at the time of the purification ceremonies at the temple, Joseph deemed himself sufficiently poor to warrant his offering for Mary two young pigeons as Moses had directed for the purification of mothers among the poor.

122.10.3 When, after more than a year of searching, Herod's spies had not located Jesus, and because of the suspicion that the babe was still concealed in Bethlehem, he prepared an order directing that a systematic search be made of every house in Bethlehem, and that all boy babies under two years of age should be killed. In this manner Herod hoped to make sure that this child who was to become “king of the Jews” would be destroyed. And thus perished in one day sixteen boy babies in Bethlehem of Judea. But intrigue and murder, even in his own immediate family, were common occurrences at the court of Herod.

122.10.4 The massacre of these infants took place about the middle of October, 6 B.C., when Jesus was a little over one year of age. But there were believers in the coming Messiah even among Herod's court attachés, and one of these, learning of the order to slaughter the Bethlehem boy babies, communicated with Zacharias, who in turn dispatched a messenger to Joseph; and the night before the massacre Joseph and Mary departed from Bethlehem with the babe for Alexandria in Egypt. In order to avoid attracting attention, they journeyed alone to Egypt with Jesus. They went to Alexandria on funds provided by Zacharias, and there Joseph worked at his trade while Mary and Jesus lodged with well-to-do relatives of Joseph's family. They sojourned in Alexandria two full years, not returning to Bethlehem until after the death of Herod."


I would be afraid to show you what I have created, Dook.

_________________
to the underlaying unity of all life
so that the voice of intuition may guide us
closer to our common keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 178 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group