Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:08 am +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:26 pm +0000
Posts: 4
Location: Central Coast, California
I have a semi-lapsed Mormon friend that I cross-mentor with and we've gone back and forth explaining to each other our spiritual beliefs and awareness of the universe (along with more mundane subjects).He is a good guy - very receptive - and because of my 40 years study of TUB, the topic mostly emerges as me answering his questions about metaphysics: Our origin, our purpose, our destiny, life after death, why is there evil in a world created by God, etc. I discovered that there are many similar beliefs between us that seem fairly unique to these two belief systems: The Ancients of Days, the Melchezidek Order, Michael's appearance in morontal form to 'native' Americans, and other interesting agreements.

It has recently come to mind that because I have found so many similar aspects between Latter-Day Saints (LDS) and my beliefs, which I term "Jesusonian" (to differentiate between it and institutionalized Christianity), that I wonder if an earlier epochal revelation to Joseph Smith - on the order of what occurred with The UB's Contact Personality - went haywire due to elements within the personality of Joseph, leading to and culminating in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!

A quick Google-scrape reveals profound differences: Mormons are non-trinitarian, agree with the atonement doctrine and have vastly different ideas on God's perfecting of this universe and our future place in it.

But still, I find it interesting to ponder what may have occurred to Joseph Smith and how it might be somehow connected to Urantia's 5th Epochal Revelation. In forty years of reading, studying and grouping, I have never heard this topic raised.

Any thoughts?

Jerry

_________________
In the material world, the business partnership is the most dangerous mode.
In the spiritual world, the partnership between you, your TA, the SoT and UDotIS
in the business of creating a soul - is the most rewarding.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 am +0000
Posts: 732
That type of occurrence could be what the revelators refer to when they talk about there being less and less mortals on our planet who can effectively operate with a self-acting TA. Joseph Smith's brilliance was manifest early in his life when there erupted in his mind and soul the all important realization that all existing religious text, culture and dogma was tainted and imperfect to the extent that it cannot unfailingly guide a person upward and godward. In hindsight of course it seems ridiculous that he largely merely managed to replace text, culture and dogma with similarly tainted and imperfect material, though he no doubt did make some positive contributions.

Probably similar to Joseph Smith's legacy were those of Ellen White of the Seventh Day Advents church, Helena Blavatsky of the Theosophical Society, Emanuel Swedenborg, Edward Casey, John Milton, Siddartha Gautama and certainly many others.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 2504
Greetings....and welcome Jerry!

Another interesting doctrine is the near universal survivorship of souls...who arrive in one of three heavens based on devoutness and obedience. And also the mortal's future role in actual creationism of new worlds, a clearer and more specific picture of the afterlife as a continuation of growth and adventure - something to do and look forward to, unlike the hazy perfectionism of the heavenly estate by most religions. There are others.

I doubt Joe Smith was the vehicle for an 'epochal' revelation attempt. But I do think there were many minds in the 19th century which were very receptive to personal revelation and to a degree which compelled them to express, organize, lead, and inspire 'movements' within Protestantism. There was a surge of independent splintering and individualism and expressionism that was very anti-establishment and anti-authoritarian and anti-institutional and government sponsored in its newly forming authoritizations and establishment of creeds and doctrines...and institutions.

I find this to be a normal, if fascinating, function of evolutionary religion and mortal/planetary epochal progress. I think the Spirit of Truth and flood of TA's had much to do with it on the religious side and the scientific age of discovery just prior to the 1800's found both expression and audience (a newly forming 'class' of free serfs and citizens) due to the printing press and education of the masses to deliver an amazing juxtaposition and confluence of energies and potentials which propelled this new generation of religious expression. This era of transformation is an exciting example in recent history of planetary progress at the hands of our planetary rulers and management team!

I recall a period a few centuries before Michael's time here and many centuries (15-17) after Big Mac's time here that there was another emergence of religiosity and dynamic evolutionary religious growth and influence. I think the Protestant movement is another phase of response to pressure from above and evolutionary progress for our world through the normal transformative cycle of the Planetary Mortal Epochs as directed by the Most Highs.

The UB teaches that personal religion is the only true religion and that social/group/evolutionary religion(s) are valid and useful only to the degree that they inspire, serve, and support a personal religious experience and its expression. But institutional religion in the West was a nearly predatory social and religious retardant, a king maker or pawn of kings, a corrupt and powerful subjugator of humanity (sound familiar?). This choke hold was destroyed in the 17th-19th centuries with a resulting blossoming of many divergent forms of religious experience and expression...all of which led to a 20th century of growing "Nones" or unaffiliated believers who still profess God, monotheism, heaven, angels, and personal survival in many forms. Religion is getting far more personal....suddenly it seems when considering our history.

This is progressive and transformative in its effects on humanity. While it is true that materialism and secularism have also gained audience and influence during this cycle of scientific and democratic socialization, nonetheless I think religion has also progressed and the individual religionist has greater freedom for personal religious experience and expression than any time in our history.

I have often wondered if the Reserve Corps of Destiny had such religionist pioneers among their numbers and if those minds and souls which mustered such leadership of divergence might also be preliminary seed sowers and soil tillers to prepare for that epochal revelation to come? Could they be related in THAT way? I think so, yes.

These are very transitional times right now. We are advised that change will now only accelerate and the social ship has left the harbor for the stormy seas and that only personal religious experience will suffice to sooth and guide us, personally and collectively, forward to our planetary destiny. Exciting Times!!

Such times and conditions will require that relationship of faith assurance and truth assurance within to relieve anxiety and bring us courage amidst uncertainty and deliver hope to the mind of trust in God in heaven and God's Spirit within....this is the only true sanctuary from confusion and chaos, especially so now in these times of accelerating change and social transformation....or so I think we are taught. None of this comes by accident or is unrelated to the mortal epochs....there is purpose and direction and targeted effects for such evolutionary progress.

It scares the heck out of some people and encourages/motivates all to look to God and to serve one another. Yes, I know. There seems some evidence to contradict the view that our world is transforming toward Light and Life and that people are growing in love and in service to one another. Depends on your perspective....but the UB is clear enough!! It says the worst of the materialistic age is over and that the era of the profit motive is now facing the emergence of the service economy as its certain replacement and we quiver on the brink and so much more that makes one adjust their lens and time unit perspective adequately to behold the undeniable progress of the past few centuries and the trajectories of change we witness today.

Only the blind and angst filled mind cannot see this reality.

102:8.6 (1128.2) While personal religion precedes the evolution of human morals, it is regretfully recorded that institutional religion has invariably lagged behind the slowly changing mores of the human races. Organized religion has proved to be conservatively tardy. The prophets have usually led the people in religious development; the theologians have usually held them back. Religion, being a matter of inner or personal experience, can never develop very far in advance of the intellectual evolution of the races.


99:4.6 (1090.2) During the psychologically unsettled times of the twentieth century, amid the economic upheavals, the moral crosscurrents, and the sociologic rip tides of the cyclonic transitions of a scientific era, thousands upon thousands of men and women have become humanly dislocated; they are anxious, restless, fearful, uncertain, and unsettled; as never before in the world’s history they need the consolation and stabilization of sound religion. In the face of unprecedented scientific achievement and mechanical development there is spiritual stagnation and philosophic chaos.

99:4.7 (1090.3) There is no danger in religion’s becoming more and more of a private matter—a personal experience—provided it does not lose its motivation for unselfish and loving social service. Religion has suffered from many secondary influences: sudden mixing of cultures, intermingling of creeds, diminution of ecclesiastical authority, changing of family life, together with urbanization and mechanization.

99:4.8 (1090.4) Man’s greatest spiritual jeopardy consists in partial progress, the predicament of unfinished growth: forsaking the evolutionary religions of fear without immediately grasping the revelatory religion of love. Modern science, particularly psychology, has weakened only those religions which are so largely dependent upon fear, superstition, and emotion.

99:4.9 (1090.5) Transition is always accompanied by confusion, and there will be little tranquillity in the religious world until the great struggle between the three contending philosophies of religion is ended:

99:4.10 (1090.6) 1. The spiritistic belief (in a providential Deity) of many religions.
99:4.11 (1090.7) 2. The humanistic and idealistic belief of many philosophies.
99:4.12 (1090.8) 3. The mechanistic and naturalistic conceptions of many sciences.

195:6.2 (2076.7) No matter what the apparent conflict between materialism and the teachings of Jesus may be, you can rest assured that, in the ages to come, the teachings of the Master will fully triumph. In reality, true religion cannot become involved in any controversy with science; it is in no way concerned with material things. Religion is simply indifferent to, but sympathetic with, science, while it supremely concerns itself with the scientist.

195:6.3 (2076. The pursuit of mere knowledge, without the attendant interpretation of wisdom and the spiritual insight of religious experience, eventually leads to pessimism and human despair. A little knowledge is truly disconcerting.

195:6.4 (2076.9) At the time of this writing the worst of the materialistic age is over; the day of a better understanding is already beginning to dawn. The higher minds of the scientific world are no longer wholly materialistic in their philosophy, but the rank and file of the people still lean in that direction as a result of former teachings. But this age of physical realism is only a passing episode in man’s life on earth. Modern science has left true religion — the teachings of Jesus as translated in the lives of his believers — untouched. All science has done is to destroy the childlike illusions of the misinterpretations of life.

A little Wiki history on the 19th century religious age of transformation and its impact on politics and society - or as I see it - the butterfly of the Jesusonian Gospel growing in the cocoon of Christianity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... th_century

8) Bradly


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 2504
94:6.1 (1033.4) About six hundred years before the arrival of Michael, it seemed to Melchizedek, long since departed from the flesh, that the purity of his teaching on earth was being unduly jeopardized by general absorption into the older Urantia beliefs. It appeared for a time that his mission as a forerunner of Michael might be in danger of failing. And in the sixth century before Christ, through an unusual co-ordination of spiritual agencies, not all of which are understood even by the planetary supervisors, Urantia witnessed a most unusual presentation of manifold religious truth. Through the agency of several human teachers the Salem gospel was restated and revitalized, and as it was then presented, much has persisted to the times of this writing.

94:6.2 (1033.5) This unique century of spiritual progress was characterized by great religious, moral, and philosophic teachers all over the civilized world. In China, the two outstanding teachers were Lao-tse and Confucius.

94:7.1 (1035.1) Contemporary with Lao-tse and Confucius in China, another great teacher of truth arose in India. Gautama Siddhartha was born in the sixth century before Christ in the north Indian province of Nepal....

94:12.7 (1041.5) All Urantia is waiting for the proclamation of the ennobling message of Michael, unencumbered by the accumulated doctrines and dogmas of nineteen centuries of contact with the religions of evolutionary origin. The hour is striking for presenting to Buddhism, to Christianity, to Hinduism, even to the peoples of all faiths, not the gospel about Jesus, but the living, spiritual reality of the gospel of Jesus.

195:9.1 (2082.6) Do not overlook the value of your spiritual heritage, the river of truth running down through the centuries, even to the barren times of a materialistic and secular age. In all your worthy efforts to rid yourselves of the superstitious creeds of past ages, make sure that you hold fast the eternal truth. But be patient! when the present superstition revolt is over, the truths of Jesus’ gospel will persist gloriously to illuminate a new and better way.

195:9.2 (2082.7) But paganized and socialized Christianity stands in need of new contact with the uncompromised teachings of Jesus; it languishes for lack of a new vision of the Master’s life on earth. A new and fuller revelation of the religion of Jesus is destined to conquer an empire of materialistic secularism and to overthrow a world sway of mechanistic naturalism. Urantia is now quivering on the very brink of one of its most amazing and enthralling epochs of social readjustment, moral quickening, and spiritual enlightenment.

195:9.3 (2082.8) The teachings of Jesus, even though greatly modified, survived the mystery cults of their birthtime, the ignorance and superstition of the dark ages, and are even now slowly triumphing over the materialism, mechanism, and secularism of the twentieth century. And such times of great testing and threatened defeat are always times of great revelation.

99:1.1 (1086.4) Mechanical inventions and the dissemination of knowledge are modifying civilization; certain economic adjustments and social changes are imperative if cultural disaster is to be avoided. This new and oncoming social order will not settle down complacently for a millennium. The human race must become reconciled to a procession of changes, adjustments, and readjustments. Mankind is on the march toward a new and unrevealed planetary destiny.

99:1.2 (1086.5) Religion must become a forceful influence for moral stability and spiritual progression functioning dynamically in the midst of these ever-changing conditions and never-ending economic adjustments.

99:1.3 (1086.6) Urantia society can never hope to settle down as in past ages. The social ship has steamed out of the sheltered bays of established tradition and has begun its cruise upon the high seas of evolutionary destiny; and the soul of man, as never before in the world’s history, needs carefully to scrutinize its charts of morality and painstakingly to observe the compass of religious guidance. The paramount mission of religion as a social influence is to stabilize the ideals of mankind during these dangerous times of transition from one phase of civilization to another, from one level of culture to another.

99:1.4 (1087.1) Religion has no new duties to perform, but it is urgently called upon to function as a wise guide and experienced counselor in all of these new and rapidly changing human situations. Society is becoming more mechanical, more compact, more complex, and more critically interdependent. Religion must function to prevent these new and intimate interassociations from becoming mutually retrogressive or even destructive. Religion must act as the cosmic salt which prevents the ferments of progression from destroying the cultural savor of civilization. These new social relations and economic upheavals can result in lasting brotherhood only by the ministry of religion.


Me here: Does anyone else see the tracks of social-religious progression to a more personalized form of and reliance upon the inner religious life and Spirit relationship over the past 400 years and see the foot prints of those pioneers who abandoned entrenched authoritarian churches for the promise of individualized expressions of personal revelation and religious experience?



:wink: :idea: 8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 418
The mormons have a culture all of their own. It belongs mostly to the western (Mississippi) part of the continental United States, including Texas. I have grown up in new york state and there is not a whole much influence from mormons except in cities like Boston, Norfolk (even Rome & Paris!). From what I have heard, there are modern principles of Emanuel Swedenborg "innermost heaven" taught by missionaries. I have heard that the Urantia Book is allowable research at Brigham Young University. There is no lack of confidence that most people will tell you, about how Joseph smith was visited by two spiritual beings a man and his son.

Then I would say to you, that in many Latter-Day Saint communities, the Urantia Papers are not unheard of. And that these people are unafraid of discussing spiritual experiences and the nature of revelation.

mixed in to all of the folklore is that a tribe of Adamites came to North America, and did mate with the western portion of Red, Orange mixed sangik tribes in the western part of American continents. And that the remnants of these tribes, according to the Book of Mormon, received spiritual visitation from the ascended Jesus and reformed their ways according to the will of God.

_________________
to the underlaying unity of all life
so that the voice of intuition may guide us
closer to our common keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:26 pm +0000
Posts: 4
Location: Central Coast, California
I feel honored at the lengthy and scholarly response to my question, thank you both for the time that must have taken.

Many of the quotes are iconic passages that I remember well from my excursions through TUB. And as much as I might think I miss the "tranquil harbors", it is very exciting to be here watching us mortals, including me, struggle for better lifestyles with more advanced expressions of truth, beauty and goodness. I am one of those people that is a long-term optimist - but also a short-term pessimist. The astounding wisdom and healing passages of this incredible book have helped me turn "vicissitudes" into challenges, see good things in bad times and have revealed and assisted me in the importance of transitioning my seat of consciousness from the material to the spiritual.

Seeking and pursuing God's will - by the way - turns out to be a great way to run a life!

Jerry

_________________
In the material world, the business partnership is the most dangerous mode.
In the spiritual world, the partnership between you, your TA, the SoT and UDotIS
in the business of creating a soul - is the most rewarding.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group