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 Post subject: Re: Personality issues
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SEla_Kelly, thanks for your kind words...and to you and Jim George, Heavy Metal, and All,

What you are both saying here (I think), is valuable observation. To a worrier, the worrying and anxiety can seem like a visitation on a life - it can seem as though one is being beset by outside force, and if only one was strong enough, one could overcome. This of course, creates a cycle of self-blame which makes the worry and anxiety even worse. I like the idea of applying the concept of "our own transience" to the situation that Jim notes. Realizing that we are more than this worry - that it is due (maybe) to forces that come and go - it need not be a permanent or hopeless situation.

Once I found the teachings of the UB, making a decision to just be the observer, rather than a participant in that situation has served me well at times. It is a new and exciting perspective to a chronic worrier. Trying to overcome it without spiritual perspective is very difficult, but with that perspective, it often becomes doable. Knowing of and allowing the work of the Adjuster to proceed is very useful. I oftentimes will make a very concrete transference in my mind - a fiction of wrapping my worry in a box and mentally burying it at the foot of the cross, where it must stay. It is a very freeing little fiction...it removes "me" from the equation, as of myself, I seem powerless. I may have to bury it several times, but it is a comfort in any event.

For what it's worth...


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 Post subject: Re: Personality issues
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SEla_Kelly wrote:
I find your sympathy and teaching MaryJo to be supportive. It is of immense comfort to be reminded of these opportunities.

Jim I think that you are right to seek spiritual realisation while in human form here this lifetime. But you say this faith is the only methodology we may use to attain spiritual realisation. But it is also written that faith is but the precursor to mota, which is like a sensitivity towards spiritual things, even a sensitivity towards wisdom. This idea of faith is like a curtain which means something else to every person. We may claim that it is an ability to recognise the fruits of the spirit. Or to be aligned with and rooted in goodness.

I say that I do not quite understand, seeing that every situation possible is told to bear some lesson. Surely it is not our human concept of faith, but our sensitivity and obedience towardunto the inleadings of God's will, something like this. Does faith require temperance, for instance? What do you mean?



A very important point SEla!! Faith and wisdom are so intertwined with another....or should be and are, in the mind of the believer I think. Wisdom will never rise higher than our faith but it can rise to that level of our growing faith. The Spirit within is always working to deliver survival and faith assurance to us. As we grow in faith, wisdom should transform our perspective based on our growing trust and hope.

Jim George wrote:
I suggest we take a deeper look at this issue as we actually might find an answer there that doesn’t put off the realization of spiritual fulfillment until we achieve Mansion World status. Jesus never implied that we would have to wait until we get to heaven to receive God’s full measure of love, grace, joy and personal spiritual fulfillment, so why we resign ourselves to either act as if we are fulfilled when we know we aren’t, or simply decide to put our whole hope of realization of these wonders to another time and place, is quite revealing.

Jim



I've not read anyone suggest putting off anything or waiting on anything at all. No one can, does, or may stand still in spirit progress...we either progress or we regress. However, as SEla suggests, our growing assurance and faith in our future and our destiny and our safety and our survival and our salvation should lead to growth and deliver wisdom to contextualize our problems, difficulties, disappointments, and the uncertainties of life. Our perspective of reality changes, in this life, by spiritualization of mind and growth of soul. The assurance and knowledge of the educational and experiential process and reality in our future should only encourage us in our striving today!


Such knowledge is no excuse to "wait"....but it certainly should contribute to our poise and confidence and joy that all temporal failures and suffering is only that....temporal. Such a wiser perspective should reduce confusions and deliver ever greater faith. The more we yearn and hunger and thirst, the more we are fed the Divine love and the feast of faith and truth assurance. The more we depend on this truth, the wiser we become....and the more whole. The ministry of truth assurance comes in two forms - personal revelation within and epochal revelation. Both work to form confidence in the believer, to deliver actual assurance of our destiny and God's love and plan to allow us to be confident in the uncertainties of life and to find relief from all forms of suffering and anxiety.


So part of the "answer" to HM1's question about endless or near endless or age upon age suffering is indeed the very knowledge provided BY epochal revelation! Which clearly describes the sources of suffering and the cures of our suffering. The Mansion Worlds are designed to completely eliminate all vestiges of our material and animal origins and all suffering that is inherent in such origin. Such knowledge should help aleviate anxiety and the very real concern that such suffering may know no end. And such relief might embolden one's hope, trust, and faith leading to even greater confidence, poise, joy, and the fruits of the Divine Spirit.


It's all about assurance I think. Faith and wisdom are feedback loops which, with sufficient experience and reinforcement, deliver a strong and vibrant soul and mind motivated to love God and one another. Anxiety is a mind poison and spirit retardant....everything which reduces our anxieties for ourselves is good...and allows the "nature of worry" SEla discussed to refocus on others and the suffering of others and feeds our compassion and need to serve others. But sufficient wisdom and faith should also deliver us from that form of anxiety and worry too I think.


Some seem very worried about others...what they are or are not doing and what they should or should not be doing and whether they will survive and if they have faith and the assurance of faith and if they are "saved", etc., etc. While such anxiety is not self centered, still I wonder its value and outcomes for the believer. I think it is important to be aware of and sensitive to the suffering of others and to help others to embrace the hope, trust, and assurance of Divinity within and to work in even more material and 'practical' ways to assist and serve others. But if we trust God's love and the eternal destiny plan we are so assured of for ourselves, should we not also have faith and confidence in God's love and destiny plan for all our brothers and sisters too?


There is no eternal suffering. There is no damnation. This life is brief and the suffering of this life will not prevail nor accompany us to the Mansion Worlds. We all suffer. We all are immatue and unwise and unworthy. And yet we are all beloved and cherished children of God in this very friendly and safe universe! I see no reason to be so impatient or fearful about the journey of others on this Glory Road. Sufficient unto the day is the trouble/challenge therein I think. If we trust God with ourselves, we may trust God with all things and all others too.

SEla says above: "If you can overcome your personal concerns, rise to the level where you are present to the legitimate concerns of others, then your worry can actually interact with your innate spiritual sensitivity, when you are socialising with others, giving you insight and compassion.

Rather than do away with the worries and the dread of one's spiritual standing, we may address our own understandings and adjust our concerns in the manner that is most helpful to our indwelling Thought Adjusters, in order to join the progression of Life & Light."

Yes indeed...we can convert worry into service and compassion!! But only by acting in hope, trust, and faith can wisdom deliver truth, beauty, and goodness to others. Anxieties must be abandoned we are taught....all of them!

Some relevant Mota:

48:7.14 (556.14) 12. The greatest affliction of the cosmos is never to have been afflicted. Mortals only learn wisdom by experiencing tribulation.

48:7.16 (556.16) 14. Whet the appetites of your associates for truth; give advice only when it is asked for.
.
48:7.18 (557.2) 16. You cannot perceive spiritual truth until you feelingly experience it, and many truths are not really felt except in adversity.

48:7.20 (557.4) 18. Impatience is a spirit poison; anger is like a stone hurled into a hornet’s nest.

48:7.21 (557.5) 19. Anxiety must be abandoned. The disappointments hardest to bear are those which never come.


8)


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 Post subject: Re: Personality issues
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Some text on the importance of knowledge...and time...and the discovery of truth by knowledge learned over time. I think Heavy Metal's question and concerns exemplify this inherent human need to know, correlate, understand, apply, and gain perspective by the coordinated ministry of personality, mind, and spirit - the relationship of the knowledge quest, time, wisdom, and faith which delivers the harmonization of reality and a functional philosophy of living for each person:

102:2.4 (1120.1) Time is an invariable element in the attainment of knowledge; religion makes its endowments immediately available, albeit there is the important factor of growth in grace, definite advancement in all phases of religious experience. Knowledge is an eternal quest; always are you learning, but never are you able to arrive at the full knowledge of absolute truth. In knowledge alone there can never be absolute certainty, only increasing probability of approximation; but the religious soul of spiritual illumination knows, and knows now. And yet this profound and positive certitude does not lead such a sound-minded religionist to take any less interest in the ups and downs of the progress of human wisdom, which is bound up on its material end with the developments of slow-moving science.

102:2.5 (1120.2) Even the discoveries of science are not truly real in the consciousness of human experience until they are unraveled and correlated, until their relevant facts actually become meaning through encircuitment in the thought streams of mind. Mortal man views even his physical environment from the mind level, from the perspective of its psychological registry. It is not, therefore, strange that man should place a highly unified interpretation upon the universe and then seek to identify this energy unity of his science with the spirit unity of his religious experience. Mind is unity; mortal consciousness lives on the mind level and perceives the universal realities through the eyes of the mind endowment. The mind perspective will not yield the existential unity of the source of reality, the First Source and Center, but it can and sometime will portray to man the experiential synthesis of energy, mind, and spirit in and as the Supreme Being. But mind can never succeed in this unification of the diversity of reality unless such mind is firmly aware of material things, intellectual meanings, and spiritual values; only in the harmony of the triunity of functional reality is there unity, and only in unity is there the personality satisfaction of the realization of cosmic constancy and consistency.

102:2.6 (1120.3) Unity is best found in human experience through philosophy. And while the body of philosophic thought must ever be founded on material facts, the soul and energy of true philosophic dynamics is mortal spiritual insight.

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 Post subject: Re: Personality issues
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Dear fanofVan...good reminders with these Mota...observing/considering these can eliminate a lot of worry!

Quote:
Some relevant Mota:

48:7.14 (556.14) 12. The greatest affliction of the cosmos is never to have been afflicted. Mortals only learn wisdom by experiencing tribulation.

48:7.16 (556.16) 14. Whet the appetites of your associates for truth; give advice only when it is asked for.
.
48:7.18 (557.2) 16. You cannot perceive spiritual truth until you feelingly experience it, and many truths are not really felt except in adversity.

48:7.20 (557.4) 18. Impatience is a spirit poison; anger is like a stone hurled into a hornet’s nest.

48:7.21 (557.5) 19. Anxiety must be abandoned. The disappointments hardest to bear are those which never come.


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 Post subject: Re: Personality issues
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maryjo606 wrote:
SEla_Kelly, thanks for your kind words...and to you and Jim George, Heavy Metal, and All,

.... To a worrier, the worrying and anxiety can seem like a visitation on a life - it can seem as though one is being beset by outside force, and if only one was strong enough, one could overcome...

... Trying to overcome it without spiritual perspective is very difficult, but with that perspective, it often becomes doable. Knowing of and allowing the work of the Adjuster to proceed is very useful. I oftentimes will make a very concrete transference in my mind - a fiction of wrapping my worry in a box and mentally burying it at the foot of the cross, where it must stay....

For what it's worth...


Wow, oh wow! I am very impressed with the insights all have offered. Thank you so very much!

The first paragraph in Maryjo606 above nails it for me. Trying to overcome this with human will is indeed a struggle. It needs to be turned over to the Lord to free me. The last paragraph describes my wife's views and experiences. She is an agnostic I guess, yet she acts more Christian than I do. She is much more tolerant of other's behaviors that I become easily irritated by. I know she has suffered some deep, black, smothering trauma (I know some of it, but not all & I will not press her on it as no good would come of that) and she has risen above it by boxing it up and burying it. She has said that in so many words. I on the other hand have a very difficult time doing that. Heck it took me about 30 years to get past most, not all (yet) of some of the bad things that happened to me in high school and some stuff from childhood. I can easily dredge that junk up if I wanted to. Way too easily. I will press onward by trying to look at that trauma as a learning experience and rise above it.

I work in the medical field and am privi to intimate details of patient's history and much of it is absolutely horrible and knowing that I am amazed that so many are able to keep it together as well as they do and not just wreak havoc upon innocent people. The mass shootings that periodically erupt are of no surprise to me; I am surprised that doesn't happen more often. I work at a VA facility with clients that have killed other humans by their bare hands and witnessed or participated in the most barbaric of atrocities and they suffer mentally by it yet this awful history is not very often expressed in society by acting out some really bad behaviors such as going on a killing spree. That they can keep this boxed up is amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: Personality issues
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Heavy Metal 1 - greetings and best wishes!

I hope you may receive the following I hope to share simply as our mutual study of the teachings of the UB and not as any form of advice....we each have experienced our own sources, levels, forms, and intensities of trauma, loss, suffering, and grief and I do not presume to 'understand' your own (or your wife's) and have no wish to insult you by any form of diminishment of your personal variations of suffering. Also, I am not educated or experienced in any way to offer advice anyway!!

But personal suffering is a common enough topic in the Papers and as we are here at a UB study group, I hope we might consider its teachings on suffering and trauma only the better to understand those teachings....not to criticize or advise! As someone who works in the medical field and has some experience with the trauma and suffering by others and its effects upon one's mind and life as you do, I think your opinions would be helpful as someone who has empathy for those who so suffer.


According to my understanding, the UB teaches that we choose how we react and respond to suffering and loss and grief and trauma. Certainly not with wisdom and experience and grace and maturity as we are born and raised as material and physical beings with emotions and animalistic reflexes and reactions based on self preservation, self importance, fight or flight, survival, self perpetuation...and the full spectrum of 'animalistic' situational and circumstantial reactions one should expect from the animal kingdom. One of our dual natures IS the material, physical, animal nature. No...it certainly requires experience, wisdom, and spiritization to LEARN how to better respond....we must learn response-ability!


This does not mean we are animals or animalistic...but it does verify that the animal kingdom is our bio/chemical ancestory and evolutionary origin. As humans we are the pinnacle of evolutionary creation but we were created by a 600 million year evolutionary process that has only resulted in the DUAL nature for the past 1 million years. Our heritage means that we have evolved to the ministry of the Life Carriers and the Adjutants over the eons. All life is encircuited by one or more of the Adjutants...the higher the life form, the more adjutants in ministry and contact. Only humans are connected to all seven Adjutants. Only humans can transition our personal identity from the Adjutants ministry and connections to that of the Spirit within.


The more we grow soul and become spiritualized by our free will choices and responses to the Spirit within, the less attached we are to materialism and the more responsive we get to the Spirit...and the more we recognize and express truth, beauty, goodness, and love for others. This is the other nature of our dual nature. This also means we can learn to CHANGE how we respond to stimuli and to situations and circumstances and relationships. We can change our perspective, our responses, our motives, our intentions, our priorities, our choices, our reasons for being, and the way of choosing and living...and our responses to memories as well. THIS is what makes us far more than animals and able to transcend our normal and quite natural animal natures!! This is what defines our humanity!


So...given sufficient experience, wisdom, and spiritualization of our natures, the more control we may exercise over our emotions and our responses to prior trauma, loss, and suffering and also we might change how we respond to the same forms of stimulus and situation in the future from those responses in our past.


Forgiveness of others...even those who perpetrated or perpetrate our suffering and loss...does not benefit those we forgive so much as it frees us from the burdens of suffering by the motives, acts, intentions, immaturities, and cruelities of others. Laying our burdens at the feet of the Master is emblematic of such a transference of our burdens as well. To embrace the mercy and the judgement of the Lord in all temporal AND eternal matters, trusting God's love and wisdom over our own is an effective method of unloading anger, guilt, hate, impatience, and all manner of suffering and emotions which are truly mind poisons which offer us nothing good in return for our carrying such burdens forward even one more day or step. We all need to be released from such burdens we carry far too long and too far.


How do we do that? The UB is actually filled with practical methods and teachings that I have found very helpful in my own life and can lead to a lighter load and less burden upon the path to Paradise. Suffering can be a great teacher....as well as a horrible burden...and we ultimately choose which it shall be....or so I have found and so the Papers teach us. No matter the degree or source or symptoms or timing of personal suffering and tragedy, each of us has the opportunity and the ability to rise above it and to abandon the suffering and loss we have experienced. It takes time and growth and a willingness to let go and give it up to God within who can ease the pain and lighten the burdens of this life...in all the many forms those may take.


Even Jesus suffered as we do and far more than most. He also had to learn how to overcome with forgiveness, faith, trust, and love. It is a lesson that is not so easy....but it is a lesson we must all learn if we are to embrace and realize our destiny of eternal adventure! I look forward to further discussion and study!!

36:5.4 (402.1) The seven adjutant mind-spirits always accompany the Life Carriers to a new planet, but they should not be regarded as entities; they are more like circuits. The spirits of the seven universe adjutants do not function as personalities apart from the universe presence of the Divine Minister; they are in fact a level of consciousness of the Divine Minister and are always subordinate to the action and presence of their creative mother.

36:5.5 (402.2) We are handicapped for words adequately to designate these seven adjutant mind-spirits. They are ministers of the lower levels of experiential mind, and they may be described, in the order of evolutionary attainment, as follows:

36:5.6 (402.3) 1. The spirit of intuition—quick perception, the primitive physical and inherent reflex instincts, the directional and other self-preservative endowments of all mind creations; the only one of the adjutants to function so largely in the lower orders of animal life and the only one to make extensive functional contact with the nonteachable levels of mechanical mind.



62:6.3 (709.4) At first only the spirit of intuition could function in the instinctive and reflex behavior of the primordial animal life. With the differentiation of higher types, the spirit of understanding was able to endow such creatures with the gift of spontaneous association of ideas. Later on we observed the spirit of courage in operation; evolving animals really developed a crude form of protective self-consciousness. Subsequent to the appearance of the mammalian groups, we beheld the spirit of knowledge manifesting itself in increased measure. And the evolution of the higher mammals brought the function of the spirit of counsel, with the resulting growth of the herd instinct and the beginnings of primitive social development.

62:6.4 (709.5) Increasingly, on down through the dawn mammals, the mid-mammals, and the Primates, we had observed the augmented service of the first five adjutants. But never had the remaining two, the highest mind ministers, been able to function in the Urantia type of evolutionary mind.

62:6.5 (709.6) Imagine our joy one day—the twins were about ten years old—when the spirit of worship made its first contact with the mind of the female twin and shortly thereafter with the male. We knew that something closely akin to human mind was approaching culmination; and when, about a year later, they finally resolved, as a result of meditative thought and purposeful decision, to flee from home and journey north, then did the spirit of wisdom begin to function on Urantia and in these two now recognized human minds.

100:1.6 (1095.1) Religious experience is markedly influenced by physical health, inherited temperament, and social environment. But these temporal conditions do not inhibit inner spiritual progress by a soul dedicated to the doing of the will of the Father in heaven. There are present in all normal mortals certain innate drives toward growth and self-realization which function if they are not specifically inhibited. The certain technique of fostering this constitutive endowment of the potential of spiritual growth is to maintain an attitude of wholehearted devotion to supreme values.

100:1.7 (1095.2) Religion cannot be bestowed, received, loaned, learned, or lost. It is a personal experience which grows proportionally to the growing quest for final values. Cosmic growth thus attends on the accumulation of meanings and the ever-expanding elevation of values. But nobility itself is always an unconscious growth.

100:1.8 (1095.3) Religious habits of thinking and acting are contributory to the economy of spiritual growth. One can develop religious predispositions toward favorable reaction to spiritual stimuli, a sort of conditioned spiritual reflex. Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one’s spiritual life with one’s fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.

Bradly 8)


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