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SEla_Kelly, thanks for your kind words...and to you and Jim George, Heavy Metal, and All,

What you are both saying here (I think), is valuable observation. To a worrier, the worrying and anxiety can seem like a visitation on a life - it can seem as though one is being beset by outside force, and if only one was strong enough, one could overcome. This of course, creates a cycle of self-blame which makes the worry and anxiety even worse. I like the idea of applying the concept of "our own transience" to the situation that Jim notes. Realizing that we are more than this worry - that it is due (maybe) to forces that come and go - it need not be a permanent or hopeless situation.

Once I found the teachings of the UB, making a decision to just be the observer, rather than a participant in that situation has served me well at times. It is a new and exciting perspective to a chronic worrier. Trying to overcome it without spiritual perspective is very difficult, but with that perspective, it often becomes doable. Knowing of and allowing the work of the Adjuster to proceed is very useful. I oftentimes will make a very concrete transference in my mind - a fiction of wrapping my worry in a box and mentally burying it at the foot of the cross, where it must stay. It is a very freeing little fiction...it removes "me" from the equation, as of myself, I seem powerless. I may have to bury it several times, but it is a comfort in any event.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
I find your sympathy and teaching MaryJo to be supportive. It is of immense comfort to be reminded of these opportunities.

Jim I think that you are right to seek spiritual realisation while in human form here this lifetime. But you say this faith is the only methodology we may use to attain spiritual realisation. But it is also written that faith is but the precursor to mota, which is like a sensitivity towards spiritual things, even a sensitivity towards wisdom. This idea of faith is like a curtain which means something else to every person. We may claim that it is an ability to recognise the fruits of the spirit. Or to be aligned with and rooted in goodness.

I say that I do not quite understand, seeing that every situation possible is told to bear some lesson. Surely it is not our human concept of faith, but our sensitivity and obedience towardunto the inleadings of God's will, something like this. Does faith require temperance, for instance? What do you mean?



A very important point SEla!! Faith and wisdom are so intertwined with another....or should be and are, in the mind of the believer I think. Wisdom will never rise higher than our faith but it can rise to that level of our growing faith. The Spirit within is always working to deliver survival and faith assurance to us. As we grow in faith, wisdom should transform our perspective based on our growing trust and hope.

Jim George wrote:
I suggest we take a deeper look at this issue as we actually might find an answer there that doesn’t put off the realization of spiritual fulfillment until we achieve Mansion World status. Jesus never implied that we would have to wait until we get to heaven to receive God’s full measure of love, grace, joy and personal spiritual fulfillment, so why we resign ourselves to either act as if we are fulfilled when we know we aren’t, or simply decide to put our whole hope of realization of these wonders to another time and place, is quite revealing.

Jim



I've not read anyone suggest putting off anything or waiting on anything at all. No one can, does, or may stand still in spirit progress...we either progress or we regress. However, as SEla suggests, our growing assurance and faith in our future and our destiny and our safety and our survival and our salvation should lead to growth and deliver wisdom to contextualize our problems, difficulties, disappointments, and the uncertainties of life. Our perspective of reality changes, in this life, by spiritualization of mind and growth of soul. The assurance and knowledge of the educational and experiential process and reality in our future should only encourage us in our striving today!


Such knowledge is no excuse to "wait"....but it certainly should contribute to our poise and confidence and joy that all temporal failures and suffering is only that....temporal. Such a wiser perspective should reduce confusions and deliver ever greater faith. The more we yearn and hunger and thirst, the more we are fed the Divine love and the feast of faith and truth assurance. The more we depend on this truth, the wiser we become....and the more whole. The ministry of truth assurance comes in two forms - personal revelation within and epochal revelation. Both work to form confidence in the believer, to deliver actual assurance of our destiny and God's love and plan to allow us to be confident in the uncertainties of life and to find relief from all forms of suffering and anxiety.


So part of the "answer" to HM1's question about endless or near endless or age upon age suffering is indeed the very knowledge provided BY epochal revelation! Which clearly describes the sources of suffering and the cures of our suffering. The Mansion Worlds are designed to completely eliminate all vestiges of our material and animal origins and all suffering that is inherent in such origin. Such knowledge should help aleviate anxiety and the very real concern that such suffering may know no end. And such relief might embolden one's hope, trust, and faith leading to even greater confidence, poise, joy, and the fruits of the Divine Spirit.


It's all about assurance I think. Faith and wisdom are feedback loops which, with sufficient experience and reinforcement, deliver a strong and vibrant soul and mind motivated to love God and one another. Anxiety is a mind poison and spirit retardant....everything which reduces our anxieties for ourselves is good...and allows the "nature of worry" SEla discussed to refocus on others and the suffering of others and feeds our compassion and need to serve others. But sufficient wisdom and faith should also deliver us from that form of anxiety and worry too I think.


Some seem very worried about others...what they are or are not doing and what they should or should not be doing and whether they will survive and if they have faith and the assurance of faith and if they are "saved", etc., etc. While such anxiety is not self centered, still I wonder its value and outcomes for the believer. I think it is important to be aware of and sensitive to the suffering of others and to help others to embrace the hope, trust, and assurance of Divinity within and to work in even more material and 'practical' ways to assist and serve others. But if we trust God's love and the eternal destiny plan we are so assured of for ourselves, should we not also have faith and confidence in God's love and destiny plan for all our brothers and sisters too?


There is no eternal suffering. There is no damnation. This life is brief and the suffering of this life will not prevail nor accompany us to the Mansion Worlds. We all suffer. We all are immatue and unwise and unworthy. And yet we are all beloved and cherished children of God in this very friendly and safe universe! I see no reason to be so impatient or fearful about the journey of others on this Glory Road. Sufficient unto the day is the trouble/challenge therein I think. If we trust God with ourselves, we may trust God with all things and all others too.

SEla says above: "If you can overcome your personal concerns, rise to the level where you are present to the legitimate concerns of others, then your worry can actually interact with your innate spiritual sensitivity, when you are socialising with others, giving you insight and compassion.

Rather than do away with the worries and the dread of one's spiritual standing, we may address our own understandings and adjust our concerns in the manner that is most helpful to our indwelling Thought Adjusters, in order to join the progression of Life & Light."

Yes indeed...we can convert worry into service and compassion!! But only by acting in hope, trust, and faith can wisdom deliver truth, beauty, and goodness to others. Anxieties must be abandoned we are taught....all of them!

Some relevant Mota:

48:7.14 (556.14) 12. The greatest affliction of the cosmos is never to have been afflicted. Mortals only learn wisdom by experiencing tribulation.

48:7.16 (556.16) 14. Whet the appetites of your associates for truth; give advice only when it is asked for.
.
48:7.18 (557.2) 16. You cannot perceive spiritual truth until you feelingly experience it, and many truths are not really felt except in adversity.

48:7.20 (557.4) 18. Impatience is a spirit poison; anger is like a stone hurled into a hornet’s nest.

48:7.21 (557.5) 19. Anxiety must be abandoned. The disappointments hardest to bear are those which never come.


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Some text on the importance of knowledge...and time...and the discovery of truth by knowledge learned over time. I think Heavy Metal's question and concerns exemplify this inherent human need to know, correlate, understand, apply, and gain perspective by the coordinated ministry of personality, mind, and spirit - the relationship of the knowledge quest, time, wisdom, and faith which delivers the harmonization of reality and a functional philosophy of living for each person:

102:2.4 (1120.1) Time is an invariable element in the attainment of knowledge; religion makes its endowments immediately available, albeit there is the important factor of growth in grace, definite advancement in all phases of religious experience. Knowledge is an eternal quest; always are you learning, but never are you able to arrive at the full knowledge of absolute truth. In knowledge alone there can never be absolute certainty, only increasing probability of approximation; but the religious soul of spiritual illumination knows, and knows now. And yet this profound and positive certitude does not lead such a sound-minded religionist to take any less interest in the ups and downs of the progress of human wisdom, which is bound up on its material end with the developments of slow-moving science.

102:2.5 (1120.2) Even the discoveries of science are not truly real in the consciousness of human experience until they are unraveled and correlated, until their relevant facts actually become meaning through encircuitment in the thought streams of mind. Mortal man views even his physical environment from the mind level, from the perspective of its psychological registry. It is not, therefore, strange that man should place a highly unified interpretation upon the universe and then seek to identify this energy unity of his science with the spirit unity of his religious experience. Mind is unity; mortal consciousness lives on the mind level and perceives the universal realities through the eyes of the mind endowment. The mind perspective will not yield the existential unity of the source of reality, the First Source and Center, but it can and sometime will portray to man the experiential synthesis of energy, mind, and spirit in and as the Supreme Being. But mind can never succeed in this unification of the diversity of reality unless such mind is firmly aware of material things, intellectual meanings, and spiritual values; only in the harmony of the triunity of functional reality is there unity, and only in unity is there the personality satisfaction of the realization of cosmic constancy and consistency.

102:2.6 (1120.3) Unity is best found in human experience through philosophy. And while the body of philosophic thought must ever be founded on material facts, the soul and energy of true philosophic dynamics is mortal spiritual insight.

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Dear fanofVan...good reminders with these Mota...observing/considering these can eliminate a lot of worry!

Quote:
Some relevant Mota:

48:7.14 (556.14) 12. The greatest affliction of the cosmos is never to have been afflicted. Mortals only learn wisdom by experiencing tribulation.

48:7.16 (556.16) 14. Whet the appetites of your associates for truth; give advice only when it is asked for.
.
48:7.18 (557.2) 16. You cannot perceive spiritual truth until you feelingly experience it, and many truths are not really felt except in adversity.

48:7.20 (557.4) 18. Impatience is a spirit poison; anger is like a stone hurled into a hornet’s nest.

48:7.21 (557.5) 19. Anxiety must be abandoned. The disappointments hardest to bear are those which never come.


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maryjo606 wrote:
SEla_Kelly, thanks for your kind words...and to you and Jim George, Heavy Metal, and All,

.... To a worrier, the worrying and anxiety can seem like a visitation on a life - it can seem as though one is being beset by outside force, and if only one was strong enough, one could overcome...

... Trying to overcome it without spiritual perspective is very difficult, but with that perspective, it often becomes doable. Knowing of and allowing the work of the Adjuster to proceed is very useful. I oftentimes will make a very concrete transference in my mind - a fiction of wrapping my worry in a box and mentally burying it at the foot of the cross, where it must stay....

For what it's worth...


Wow, oh wow! I am very impressed with the insights all have offered. Thank you so very much!

The first paragraph in Maryjo606 above nails it for me. Trying to overcome this with human will is indeed a struggle. It needs to be turned over to the Lord to free me. The last paragraph describes my wife's views and experiences. She is an agnostic I guess, yet she acts more Christian than I do. She is much more tolerant of other's behaviors that I become easily irritated by. I know she has suffered some deep, black, smothering trauma (I know some of it, but not all & I will not press her on it as no good would come of that) and she has risen above it by boxing it up and burying it. She has said that in so many words. I on the other hand have a very difficult time doing that. Heck it took me about 30 years to get past most, not all (yet) of some of the bad things that happened to me in high school and some stuff from childhood. I can easily dredge that junk up if I wanted to. Way too easily. I will press onward by trying to look at that trauma as a learning experience and rise above it.

I work in the medical field and am privi to intimate details of patient's history and much of it is absolutely horrible and knowing that I am amazed that so many are able to keep it together as well as they do and not just wreak havoc upon innocent people. The mass shootings that periodically erupt are of no surprise to me; I am surprised that doesn't happen more often. I work at a VA facility with clients that have killed other humans by their bare hands and witnessed or participated in the most barbaric of atrocities and they suffer mentally by it yet this awful history is not very often expressed in society by acting out some really bad behaviors such as going on a killing spree. That they can keep this boxed up is amazing.


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Heavy Metal 1 - greetings and best wishes!

I hope you may receive the following I hope to share simply as our mutual study of the teachings of the UB and not as any form of advice....we each have experienced our own sources, levels, forms, and intensities of trauma, loss, suffering, and grief and I do not presume to 'understand' your own (or your wife's) and have no wish to insult you by any form of diminishment of your personal variations of suffering. Also, I am not educated or experienced in any way to offer advice anyway!!

But personal suffering is a common enough topic in the Papers and as we are here at a UB study group, I hope we might consider its teachings on suffering and trauma only the better to understand those teachings....not to criticize or advise! As someone who works in the medical field and has some experience with the trauma and suffering by others and its effects upon one's mind and life as you do, I think your opinions would be helpful as someone who has empathy for those who so suffer.


According to my understanding, the UB teaches that we choose how we react and respond to suffering and loss and grief and trauma. Certainly not with wisdom and experience and grace and maturity as we are born and raised as material and physical beings with emotions and animalistic reflexes and reactions based on self preservation, self importance, fight or flight, survival, self perpetuation...and the full spectrum of 'animalistic' situational and circumstantial reactions one should expect from the animal kingdom. One of our dual natures IS the material, physical, animal nature. No...it certainly requires experience, wisdom, and spiritization to LEARN how to better respond....we must learn response-ability!


This does not mean we are animals or animalistic...but it does verify that the animal kingdom is our bio/chemical ancestory and evolutionary origin. As humans we are the pinnacle of evolutionary creation but we were created by a 600 million year evolutionary process that has only resulted in the DUAL nature for the past 1 million years. Our heritage means that we have evolved to the ministry of the Life Carriers and the Adjutants over the eons. All life is encircuited by one or more of the Adjutants...the higher the life form, the more adjutants in ministry and contact. Only humans are connected to all seven Adjutants. Only humans can transition our personal identity from the Adjutants ministry and connections to that of the Spirit within.


The more we grow soul and become spiritualized by our free will choices and responses to the Spirit within, the less attached we are to materialism and the more responsive we get to the Spirit...and the more we recognize and express truth, beauty, goodness, and love for others. This is the other nature of our dual nature. This also means we can learn to CHANGE how we respond to stimuli and to situations and circumstances and relationships. We can change our perspective, our responses, our motives, our intentions, our priorities, our choices, our reasons for being, and the way of choosing and living...and our responses to memories as well. THIS is what makes us far more than animals and able to transcend our normal and quite natural animal natures!! This is what defines our humanity!


So...given sufficient experience, wisdom, and spiritualization of our natures, the more control we may exercise over our emotions and our responses to prior trauma, loss, and suffering and also we might change how we respond to the same forms of stimulus and situation in the future from those responses in our past.


Forgiveness of others...even those who perpetrated or perpetrate our suffering and loss...does not benefit those we forgive so much as it frees us from the burdens of suffering by the motives, acts, intentions, immaturities, and cruelities of others. Laying our burdens at the feet of the Master is emblematic of such a transference of our burdens as well. To embrace the mercy and the judgement of the Lord in all temporal AND eternal matters, trusting God's love and wisdom over our own is an effective method of unloading anger, guilt, hate, impatience, and all manner of suffering and emotions which are truly mind poisons which offer us nothing good in return for our carrying such burdens forward even one more day or step. We all need to be released from such burdens we carry far too long and too far.


How do we do that? The UB is actually filled with practical methods and teachings that I have found very helpful in my own life and can lead to a lighter load and less burden upon the path to Paradise. Suffering can be a great teacher....as well as a horrible burden...and we ultimately choose which it shall be....or so I have found and so the Papers teach us. No matter the degree or source or symptoms or timing of personal suffering and tragedy, each of us has the opportunity and the ability to rise above it and to abandon the suffering and loss we have experienced. It takes time and growth and a willingness to let go and give it up to God within who can ease the pain and lighten the burdens of this life...in all the many forms those may take.


Even Jesus suffered as we do and far more than most. He also had to learn how to overcome with forgiveness, faith, trust, and love. It is a lesson that is not so easy....but it is a lesson we must all learn if we are to embrace and realize our destiny of eternal adventure! I look forward to further discussion and study!!

36:5.4 (402.1) The seven adjutant mind-spirits always accompany the Life Carriers to a new planet, but they should not be regarded as entities; they are more like circuits. The spirits of the seven universe adjutants do not function as personalities apart from the universe presence of the Divine Minister; they are in fact a level of consciousness of the Divine Minister and are always subordinate to the action and presence of their creative mother.

36:5.5 (402.2) We are handicapped for words adequately to designate these seven adjutant mind-spirits. They are ministers of the lower levels of experiential mind, and they may be described, in the order of evolutionary attainment, as follows:

36:5.6 (402.3) 1. The spirit of intuition—quick perception, the primitive physical and inherent reflex instincts, the directional and other self-preservative endowments of all mind creations; the only one of the adjutants to function so largely in the lower orders of animal life and the only one to make extensive functional contact with the nonteachable levels of mechanical mind.



62:6.3 (709.4) At first only the spirit of intuition could function in the instinctive and reflex behavior of the primordial animal life. With the differentiation of higher types, the spirit of understanding was able to endow such creatures with the gift of spontaneous association of ideas. Later on we observed the spirit of courage in operation; evolving animals really developed a crude form of protective self-consciousness. Subsequent to the appearance of the mammalian groups, we beheld the spirit of knowledge manifesting itself in increased measure. And the evolution of the higher mammals brought the function of the spirit of counsel, with the resulting growth of the herd instinct and the beginnings of primitive social development.

62:6.4 (709.5) Increasingly, on down through the dawn mammals, the mid-mammals, and the Primates, we had observed the augmented service of the first five adjutants. But never had the remaining two, the highest mind ministers, been able to function in the Urantia type of evolutionary mind.

62:6.5 (709.6) Imagine our joy one day—the twins were about ten years old—when the spirit of worship made its first contact with the mind of the female twin and shortly thereafter with the male. We knew that something closely akin to human mind was approaching culmination; and when, about a year later, they finally resolved, as a result of meditative thought and purposeful decision, to flee from home and journey north, then did the spirit of wisdom begin to function on Urantia and in these two now recognized human minds.

100:1.6 (1095.1) Religious experience is markedly influenced by physical health, inherited temperament, and social environment. But these temporal conditions do not inhibit inner spiritual progress by a soul dedicated to the doing of the will of the Father in heaven. There are present in all normal mortals certain innate drives toward growth and self-realization which function if they are not specifically inhibited. The certain technique of fostering this constitutive endowment of the potential of spiritual growth is to maintain an attitude of wholehearted devotion to supreme values.

100:1.7 (1095.2) Religion cannot be bestowed, received, loaned, learned, or lost. It is a personal experience which grows proportionally to the growing quest for final values. Cosmic growth thus attends on the accumulation of meanings and the ever-expanding elevation of values. But nobility itself is always an unconscious growth.

100:1.8 (1095.3) Religious habits of thinking and acting are contributory to the economy of spiritual growth. One can develop religious predispositions toward favorable reaction to spiritual stimuli, a sort of conditioned spiritual reflex. Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one’s spiritual life with one’s fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.

Bradly 8)


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fanofVan wrote:
How do we do that? The UB is actually filled with practical methods and teachings that I have found very helpful in my own life and can lead to a lighter load and less burden upon the path to Paradise. Suffering can be a great teacher....as well as a horrible burden...and we ultimately choose which it shall be....or so I have found and so the Papers teach us. No matter the degree or source or symptoms or timing of personal suffering and tragedy, each of us has the opportunity and the ability to rise above it and to abandon the suffering and loss we have experienced. It takes time and growth and a willingness to let go and give it up to God within who can ease the pain and lighten the burdens of this life...in all the many forms those may take.
Bradly 8)



Once again...it is my hope that we might consider and discuss the Teachings in the UB regarding how to reduce our personal suffering....especially so, in context of this discussion and topic, of that suffering we endure at the hands and by the acts of others upon us and to us, either now or in the past. I am not here to give advice nor to criticize any other by such consideration.


So...what are some of these "practical methods" given in the UB? Many, perhaps all, of these are known to humanity without the specific UB text on the matter....but those teachings contribute a great deal to such considerations.


1. Prayer - https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

The efficacy of prayer is determined by two factors - the first is sincerity and the second is our growing experiential wisdom. No matter how self centered and immature is our plea, prayer is a vital connection which delivers results - not always the one we pray for....but prayer does change the one who prays and delivers faith assurance at a minimum and grows relationship with God within.

2. Forgiveness - https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

We are taught that we are forgiven AS we forgive. So long as we harbor anger, hate, revenge, or any other related feelings toward others, we have not yet received the full measure and ministry of forgiveness for ourselves. We are taught that we do not determine the amount of forgiveness available to us by our forgiveness of others but we do determine the amount we might receive.

Until we forgive those that use and abuse and revile and harm us, we cannot hope to love them nor can we expect to be soothed and healed from the harm we have suffered by them either. We simply cannot heal and grow beyond our own suffering while holding grudges and resentments. Not possible!


3. Love one another - https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

We must learn to forgive all hurt and harm received by others and then love them sufficiently to understand them and why/how they make the choices they have which have hurt us and others to even begin to love them. This ultimately requires the experiential and spiritual maturity to give the Divine form of love on the progressive love scale of the Golden Rule: https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

4. Brotherly love - https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all


5. Fatherly love - https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... rch=Search



It is often true that we suffer primarily because of our grip upon our suffering. A grip that must be loosened and then let go. I learned of a most effective method of catching monkeys in India and in Africa by some tribes. The monkey trap can take many forms, one is a heavy clay pot with a narrow opening and bulbous body....you place a banana inside and when the monkey grabs onto the banana they cannot get their hand out without letting go of the banana....but they won't do that! When chased they will drag that heavy clay pot around until they are eaisily caught as they cannot climb or run or escape the hunter who uses the monkey trap.


We must be smarter than the monkey!!! But we often grasp onto our emotional response to our suffering and the perpetrator and cause of our suffering and we grip it so tightly that we cannot escape it or the very real consequences that comes by this relentless grip. Learning to release this grip upon our suffering takes time....and help. To be clear, it is a certainty that letting go is not a natural ability...indeed it requires a spiritual response and a thoughtful process. But also to be clear....we are serving our own best interests to learn how to release our grip upon such feelings!


But we must learn to serve our own best interest to take the final step in our healing and emergence from the pain and suffering. We must learn how better to respond in all situations and remove our animal based self interest and importance emotions from our daily life too. We must learn response-ability: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5029


6. Serve others - In some ways these steps are progressive but there is lots of overlap and simulteaneous efforts too. We begin with prayer and then forgiveness and understanding and then brotherly love and then abiding Divine affection and such a personal religious experience will manifest itself in the desire and compelling need to share and serve others.


It's a natural growth....as natural as a seed becoming sprout and then plant with branches and then with flower and then with fruit and then with seed to then sow itself eternally.


I certainly do not claim to have any expertise in the above...but I do have some experience and know that by changing my own responses to the circumstances and situations and relationships of life that I have suffered less at the hands of others and have enjoyed a growing poise and confidence and joy in my life over time. Anger is like a stone hurled into the hornets nest....it does nothing to the hornets compared to what they do to us!! I do have much experience with anger and lugging around a heavy load of a monkey trap while tightly gripping that banana of indignation and anger and blame!!! It's amazing how good it feels, how liberating it is, to simply let go of that dang banana!!!! :idea:


I hope others might share their own experiences and thoughts regarding the teachings we share here together. I wonder if "personality issues" might be determined more about our response mechanisms and habits than any imbedded or inherent or natural psychological issues?? I believe the UB teaches that the more we spiritualize our minds and actualize our relationship with God then the less effect such troubles should have in our minds. Sometimes we just have to learn to let go of that banana!! Or so I've found. That jar of bad memories and bad feelings seems to get bigger and bigger and heavier and heavier until we do learn to let go and leave it behind.


Best wishes to all!

Bradly 8)


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fanofVan wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
How do we do that? The UB is actually filled with practical methods and teachings that I have found very helpful in my own life and can lead to a lighter load and less burden upon the path to Paradise. Suffering can be a great teacher....as well as a horrible burden...and we ultimately choose which it shall be....or so I have found and so the Papers teach us. No matter the degree or source or symptoms or timing of personal suffering and tragedy, each of us has the opportunity and the ability to rise above it and to abandon the suffering and loss we have experienced. It takes time and growth and a willingness to let go and give it up to God within who can ease the pain and lighten the burdens of this life...in all the many forms those may take.
Bradly 8)



Once again...it is my hope that we might consider and discuss the Teachings in the UB regarding how to reduce our personal suffering....especially so, in context of this discussion and topic, of that suffering we endure at the hands and by the acts of others upon us and to us, either now or in the past. I am not here to give advice nor to criticize any other by such consideration.


So...what are some of these "practical methods" given in the UB? Many, perhaps all, of these are known to humanity without the specific UB text on the matter....but those teachings contribute a great deal to such considerations.


1. Prayer - https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

The efficacy of prayer is determined by two factors - the first is sincerity and the second is our growing experiential wisdom. No matter how self centered and immature is our plea, prayer is a vital connection which delivers results - not always the one we pray for....but prayer does change the one who prays and delivers faith assurance at a minimum and grows relationship with God within.

2. Forgiveness - https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

We are taught that we are forgiven AS we forgive. So long as we harbor anger, hate, revenge, or any other related feelings toward others, we have not yet received the full measure and ministry of forgiveness for ourselves. We are taught that we do not determine the amount of forgiveness available to us by our forgiveness of others but we do determine the amount we might receive.

Until we forgive those that use and abuse and revile and harm us, we cannot hope to love them nor can we expect to be soothed and healed from the harm we have suffered by them either. We simply cannot heal and grow beyond our own suffering while holding grudges and resentments. Not possible!


3. Love one another - https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

We must learn to forgive all hurt and harm received by others and then love them sufficiently to understand them and why/how they make the choices they have which have hurt us and others to even begin to love them. This ultimately requires the experiential and spiritual maturity to give the Divine form of love on the progressive love scale of the Golden Rule: https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

4. Brotherly love - https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all


5. Fatherly love - https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... rch=Search



It is often true that we suffer primarily because of our grip upon our suffering. A grip that must be loosened and then let go. I learned of a most effective method of catching monkeys in India and in Africa by some tribes. The monkey trap can take many forms, one is a heavy clay pot with a narrow opening and bulbous body....you place a banana inside and when the monkey grabs onto the banana they cannot get their hand out without letting go of the banana....but they won't do that! When chased they will drag that heavy clay pot around until they are eaisily caught as they cannot climb or run or escape the hunter who uses the monkey trap.


We must be smarter than the monkey!!! But we often grasp onto our emotional response to our suffering and the perpetrator and cause of our suffering and we grip it so tightly that we cannot escape it or the very real consequences that comes by this relentless grip. Learning to release this grip upon our suffering takes time....and help. To be clear, it is a certainty that letting go is not a natural ability...indeed it requires a spiritual response and a thoughtful process. But also to be clear....we are serving our own best interests to learn how to release our grip upon such feelings!


But we must learn to serve our own best interest to take the final step in our healing and emergence from the pain and suffering. We must learn how better to respond in all situations and remove our animal based self interest and importance emotions from our daily life too. We must learn response-ability: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5029


6. Serve others - In some ways these steps are progressive but there is lots of overlap and simulteaneous efforts too. We begin with prayer and then forgiveness and understanding and then brotherly love and then abiding Divine affection and such a personal religious experience will manifest itself in the desire and compelling need to share and serve others.


It's a natural growth....as natural as a seed becoming sprout and then plant with branches and then with flower and then with fruit and then with seed to then sow itself eternally.


I certainly do not claim to have any expertise in the above...but I do have some experience and know that by changing my own responses to the circumstances and situations and relationships of life that I have suffered less at the hands of others and have enjoyed a growing poise and confidence and joy in my life over time. Anger is like a stone hurled into the hornets nest....it does nothing to the hornets compared to what they do to us!! I do have much experience with anger and lugging around a heavy load of a monkey trap while tightly gripping that banana of indignation and anger and blame!!! It's amazing how good it feels, how liberating it is, to simply let go of that dang banana!!!! :idea:


I hope others might share their own experiences and thoughts regarding the teachings we share here together. I wonder if "personality issues" might be determined more about our response mechanisms and habits than any imbedded or inherent or natural psychological issues?? I believe the UB teaches that the more we spiritualize our minds and actualize our relationship with God then the less effect such troubles should have in our minds. Sometimes we just have to learn to let go of that banana!! Or so I've found. That jar of bad memories and bad feelings seems to get bigger and bigger and heavier and heavier until we do learn to let go and leave it behind.


Best wishes to all!

Bradly 8)


https://youtu.be/d1PnQT4emS0


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nodAmanaV wrote:


Seriously? :( As the posting guidelines state that this is a self-governing forum, I am stepping up to request, AGAIN, that you please refrain from posting sophomoric, distracting and useless links that only serve to violate this forum's terms of use as indicated below. Also, it's simply rude and disrespectful is not reflective of the "sincerity, more sincerity, and more sincerity" which are the keys of the kingdom of heaven.

Please Do Not:

1. Impersonate or misrepresent yourself or forge or otherwise seek to conceal or misrepresent the origin of any Content provided by you.
2. Collect or harvest any data about other users.
3. Provide or use this web site and any Content or service in any commercial manner or in any manner that would involve junk mail, spam, chain letters, pyramid schemes, Nigerian scams or any other form of unauthorized advertising without our prior written consent (which we will not provide).
4. Provide any Content that may give rise to our civil or criminal liability or which may constitute or be considered a violation of any local, national or international law, including but not limited to laws relating.
5. Use language that is inconsistent with our community standards as a family friendly site, including the use of sarcasm directed at any individual personality, insinuations that call into question another person's motives, swear words or profanity. Ad Hominem attacks are also discouraged, and will - most likely - lead to post deletions, locked threads, and even the removal of posting privileges.
6. Impede or otherwise prohibit communication by disrupting the discussion including, without limitation, using screen names in topical chats that are offensive to the topic or posting depictions that are offensive and/or repeatedly posting off-topic comments in a topical chat.

Regarding personality issues, I think many of us struggle with these to a greater or lesser degree and even to varying amounts throughout our lives. I find FanofVan's list of practical UB actions to be a very useful 'user's guide' to how to cope with these self-doubts and obstacles.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
nodAmanaV wrote:


Seriously? :( As the posting guidelines state that this is a self-governing forum, I am stepping up to request, AGAIN, that you please refrain from posting sophomoric, distracting and useless links that only serve to violate this forum's terms of use as indicated below. Also, it's simply rude and disrespectful is not reflective of the "sincerity, more sincerity, and more sincerity" which are the keys of the kingdom of heaven.

Please Do Not:

1. Impersonate or misrepresent yourself or forge or otherwise seek to conceal or misrepresent the origin of any Content provided by you.
2. Collect or harvest any data about other users.
3. Provide or use this web site and any Content or service in any commercial manner or in any manner that would involve junk mail, spam, chain letters, pyramid schemes, Nigerian scams or any other form of unauthorized advertising without our prior written consent (which we will not provide).
4. Provide any Content that may give rise to our civil or criminal liability or which may constitute or be considered a violation of any local, national or international law, including but not limited to laws relating.
5. Use language that is inconsistent with our community standards as a family friendly site, including the use of sarcasm directed at any individual personality, insinuations that call into question another person's motives, swear words or profanity. Ad Hominem attacks are also discouraged, and will - most likely - lead to post deletions, locked threads, and even the removal of posting privileges.
6. Impede or otherwise prohibit communication by disrupting the discussion including, without limitation, using screen names in topical chats that are offensive to the topic or posting depictions that are offensive and/or repeatedly posting off-topic comments in a topical chat.

Regarding personality issues, I think many of us struggle with these to a greater or lesser degree and even to varying amounts throughout our lives. I find FanofVan's list of practical UB actions to be a very useful 'user's guide' to how to cope with these self-doubts and obstacles.

"Agon D. Onter" - As you are entitled to your opinion and to voice that opinion based on the "Public Forum Poster Guidelines" I have found it lacking recently that there seems to not be an active Administrator or monitor active on this forum, where I have presented certain concerns via the sites intended software without reply or response other than from individual members who seem to actually violate many of the "Posting Rules" despite over-site.

If I may also add to your post the following section posted within the Rules the following:
"The following Urantia movement-related controversies are banned from discussion in any of the forums (overt or covert):
* The Teaching Mission / Channeling. (We have no issue with people who believe they are communicating with non-human entities, or spiritual beings, or even with themselves. But this is not the forum for people to discuss those presumed communications.)
* The Copyright.

* Individual people that read The Urantia Book that do not please you.
* Urantia Book organizations that do not please you.


There is a simple reason that we do not allow these topics at all: They are divisive. These topics have been shown to disrupt and disable Urantia Book forums. If you want to discuss the above forbidden topics, please do so on another forum or with one another by way of email or Private Messages (PM). Then -- once you have vented your spleen -- come back here. Seriously, we are just not interested.

If you have questions concerning our rules, suggestions or criticisms, please send your thoughts directly to any moderator or administrator rather than voice these concerns openly on the boards."


It would seem that because a member's post does not please you, there are certain methods of expressing one's opinion other than through publicly venting by violating these rules again and again.
As you have stated above: "As the posting guidelines state that this is a self-governing forum," - where as noted in the rules: "Ultimately we strive for self-governance here, as described in The Urantia Book. "That which governs least governs best." Nevertheless, there are rules. Here are some more rules:"
Therefore, I assume that your understanding of the statement above may be miss-leading in that to "strive for self-governance" would be understood as to the individuals where "That which governs least governs best." Where the over posting of personal opinions against any one person or member who "do not please you" would also be a violation of the rules.

Since I have not yet heard from the internal administration regarding my concerns, I feel it necessary to make this post, and will abide by Admin's ruling once made.

Thank you in advance.

_________________
The Reality of knowing what Wisdom is, is in the Experiencing of the Philosophy of using Knowledge.


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I have not said anything about any *person*. There is no *person* who "displeases me". I have commented on someone's writing - what they posted in this discussion forum. I have, if you will, added discussion to this discussion forum. If that is against forum rules, then we are all rebels. :badgrin:


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Dear Agon D. Onter and MidiChlorian, and All

Since we lost Larry Watkins as our moderator in February, it has been up to me and one other associate to try and moderate this forum. Today is the first day I have visited here since early June. At that time, it seemed very, very quiet, and I thought maybe it might stay that way. It is still not a habit with me to visit the forum daily. So, I apologize for not being present. I'll do better.

I don't understand what the problem is, Agon D. Onter, that you have with the content that you indicated - which seems to be the music video. Is that right? I don't see where that is a violation of any rules (that you highlighted in red). If one does not want to view it, one does not have to. It seemed to me that the discussion was going fine, and I was surprised at your post.

And MidiChlorian...I was not aware of any communication from you. When Larry suddenly took ill, we did not have a lot of discussion about all that was involved with forum moderation - including, it seems, the place where he might receive forum mail. It is probably in his private account info, which I don't have. In any event, if you would, please PM me with questions from now on and I will do my best to help.

I would ask everyone - please, let's be on our best behavior. Larry was very adept at handling problems - there were not many, but he was quite good at keeping the peace here. Since we are all UB reader/students, I would hope that we can learn how to get along ... how to deal with each other's quirks, and each other's sensitivities. Remember that in a forum such as this it is easy to be mis-understood, and it is easy to misunderstand because we lack the quality of a face-to-face communication.

Please assume that everyone is here out of a good heart and the desire to learn and share. And please be that yourself, especially when raising any issues regarding what someone else has posted. I doubt that any of us are here out of malice or any untoward desire to disrupt or be troublesome. I hope that these assumptions are not naive, given the subject matter of our discussions.

Above all, be kind when posting. Kindness was one of the Master's most beloved traits, and we would all do well to try and do likewise when dealing with each other.

Thanks, and God bless us all...

MaryJo


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maryjo606 wrote:
Dear Agon D. Onter and MidiChlorian, and All

Since we lost Larry Watkins as our moderator in February, it has been up to me and one other associate to try and moderate this forum. Today is the first day I have visited here since early June. At that time, it seemed very, very quiet, and I thought maybe it might stay that way. It is still not a habit with me to visit the forum daily. So, I apologize for not being present. I'll do better.

I don't understand what the problem is, Agon D. Onter, that you have with the content that you indicated - which seems to be the music video. Is that right? I don't see where that is a violation of any rules (that you highlighted in red). If one does not want to view it, one does not have to. It seemed to me that the discussion was going fine, and I was surprised at your post.


MaryJo,
Thank you for taking on the task of moderating this forum, along with your other associate. I realize it is a difficult responsibility - I have moderated forums elsewhere, myself, so I know it is often a thankless duty. Also, thank you for your perspective on this thread. Since you specifically mentioned me and my post, I wanted to share my perspective a bit more clearly.

You wrote that "if one does not want to view it, one does not have to," but I do not see how one can know whether or not one wants to view it as it is only a link with no context, no explanation, nothing that indicates how the person posting it intends the reader to interpret it. I can see it is a youtube link; and as there are many UB videos on that site, one might expect a Urantia Book video. However, one is surprised to be watching a random music video. While I understand that you cannot visit this site every day, I have done so, or close to that, for several years now and I know from experience that this is a tactic that Nod uses regularly.

If I may use a simple analogy. It is like being in a library and studying or having a focused discussion with classmates, and someone comes to the table and hands you a can. The can is clearly meant to be opened (just like a link is meant to be opened/ clicked), so you open the can and one of those silly party snakes flies out. How does that feel to those engaged in sincere study? It is disruptive, and disrespectful, and insincere; not to mention immature.

In the spirit of self-governance and helping one another, I suggest to Nod that if a discussion again calls for the sharing of a music video that is not UB-focused, please provide the UB context for it at the time you post the link. That way, other readers CAN decide if we want to view it or not. Again, I know you find it necessary to post music videos in these threads now and then, I've seen it over the years quite a few times from you. Do your fellow forum members a service and provide some additional context please.


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Dear Agon D,

Thanks so much for this reply. I do understand your concern, and I share it. This forum is not a place to randomly post music - or other - videos that are not germane to an ongoing discussion.

I have spoken with nodAmanaV on another thread, where another random video showed up, so the warning has been given.

MaryJo


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When I first discovered the UB and after I spent a few months reading it, I became interested in talking with other readers. The only thing I could think of to do was to contact the Foundation in Chicago. When I called there, a nice women answered the phone and we spoke for a while. Of course I was one big question mark. I had a lot of things I wanted to know and she was nice enough to spend some time answering my questions. Eventually she mentioned that there were many active study groups across the country and after I told her were I lived, she gave me the phone number to the one closest to me that was nearby. This was before the internet.

Reading the book initially was an overwhelming experience. But having average reading abilities, I felt I was comprehending most of what I read. Primarily the autobiographical information about the various people written about. And the history and universe cosmology info which also registered right away with me. But the Papers that had to do with our inner experience with divinity, personal true religion, was to a certain extent over my head. I sensed the deep meanings portrayed, but the terminology, the wording, most of the time rather made my head spin.

So I became more curious about other readers. What they could tell me about what their interpretations of what they read meant to them, instead of just trying to memorize the book and what it says, and how that affected their personal religious experience. What the effects of reading the UB and applying them in their lives did to them as people. What kind of a person they were becoming for reading the book.

The way it went with the study group I attended was that we would read from the book out loud one by one, usually not more than a few paragraphs. It was understood that there was an open invitation for anyone to express themselves about what was just read. Sometimes nothing was said and at other times, a lengthy discussion would ensue. Everyone taking turns to talk about how they were feeling about it and what it meant to them.

I didn't know it at the time but what we were really doing was simply expressing ourselves about what we were experiencing. The experiences we were having right then and there with those parts of divinity that were working with us on the inside, within. We were reflecting it back out to each other, and I found this very interesting and helpful. How we each knew what it was that just happened. That the moment was spiritually in high gear. Perhaps the fact of it happening in a group setting only amplified the realizations in our minds of our mutual experiences. And that everyone, having our own unique experience with the insights that comes from such a thing, was joyful to share them with each other. It was always uplifting. It was unifying.

But regarding this online study group, I see something entirely different a lot of the time. There seem to be one of two things going on in general. Not to mention that at any given time, there are probably any number of non-member visitors perusing the forum who may have recently bumped into the book and like I was, are curious to see how the new spirit of human brotherhood, how it might be on display by the people who are actively studying the UB. How reading the book makes them better people. How it, for those who are proficient with their spiritual understandings after studying the book, makes them and their community more representative of the Good News than usual, in a higher key than what they're used to hearing or have seen anywhere else before. That visiting this forum would be appealing to them and that they might become even more inspired to delve into the book and participate in it all. In the experience of learning how to be more in contact with God.

There are many members here who sometimes share their thoughts about their experiences with divinity within. Sometimes based on some of the things being discussed in the forum, and sometimes about something else entirely that sparked their minds in response to some other thing that may have recently been read in the book or experienced in life, which is to them, relevant, which they then share in the forum. This is just like the good ole days when I used to attend the home study group I mentioned. A beacon of love and appreciation for having friends to fellowship with. Friends who value each other's insights and respect for the personal spiritual experiences that they might be kind enough to share.

This however, I personally avoid to do now for certain reasons. But I thought it might be possible to say something in a different way, rather than reducing it to writing like I'm doing now. By posting a song and letting the spirit within interpret for you through the lyrics, what I intended to say. This I did because of the likelihood that posting in the usual manner would only end up encouraging a response that I feel works against the purpose of appealing to those non-member new readers who are curious to see what reading the book is all about and how it changes people. How it makes them accepting and tolerant of others in ways that aren't seen in other places.

Here in this Urantia Book online forum, which is probably due to the impersonal and indirect nature of the internet, a lot of personal antagonism gets expressed by certain members towards others regularly. How they feel that what someone has said in a post is some kind of an atrocity, which then gets rather personal and more than a bit below the belt in my opinion. Unnecessary. Below the dignity of supposed spiritually advanced people set apart in the world because of the graciousness of an epochal revelation.


And all of this (if I may) drives me to tears.


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