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 Post subject: Opinions
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Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:40 pm +0000
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Question: To what extent do we worship our opinions?

Think about this a moment, please. Consider your most real opinions and ask, "What would it take to change my opinion? How readily will I accept adjustments in the thinking associated with those opinions?"

If you object to the word "worship", perhaps I should say "live up to" your opinions. After all, our true religion is what we actually practice in everyday life, eh?

Considered responses, please,
bill


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions
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We actually live on our own opinions if we carefully exam ourselves. To change is to discover better or higher valued opinions. We make decisions all the time based upon our own opinions, so the changing is not easy. There many ways of changing opinions:

Being taught, personal experiences, prayer & worship, talking to the Adjuster all the time, and etc. I think the best way to get ready to accept adjustments of thinking associated with one's opinions is to consecrate one's life to do the Father's Will, the only gift a personality can give to the Personality Giver.


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions
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Hi Bill. An opinion can be defined as a subjective statement or thought about some issue or topic. The question of what constitutes true knowledge, as opposed to mere opinion or belief, is the subject of epistemological debate.

The empirical (scientific) position generally holds that true knowledge can be acquired through experience, either by perceptual observation through the senses or by abstract (logical) thought. However, our senses are not infallible and we do not know the exact (fundamental) nature of what we are perceiving or thinking. So, the (intuitive) fact that we exist seems to be the only true knowledge we can have (I think, therefore I am).

Then anything our mind proposes (except the fact of our own existence) must be regarded opinion or belief. At this point you might want to restate your question as: To what extent do we live up to truth? Or: Why do you think true religion is true?.. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions
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Bart wrote:
Hi Bill. An opinion can be defined as a subjective statement or thought about some issue or topic. The question of what constitutes true knowledge, as opposed to mere opinion or belief, is the subject of epistemological debate.

The empirical (scientific) position generally holds that true knowledge can be acquired through experience, either by perceptual observation through the senses or by abstract (logical) thought. However, our senses are not infallible and we do not know the exact (fundamental) nature of what we are perceiving or thinking. So, the (intuitive) fact that we exist seems to be the only true knowledge we can have (I think, therefore I am).

Then anything our mind proposes (except the fact of our own existence) must be regarded opinion or belief. At this point you might want to restate your question as: To what extent do we live up to truth? Or: Why do you think true religion is true?.. :)



I value what I know. Knowledge plus Worship. Truth is What I know. I do not know what it means by I comprehend: Wisdom

Or Knowledge can not comprehend Wisdom.


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions
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TonyMa wrote:
I value what I know. Knowledge plus Worship. Truth is What I know. I do not know what it means by I comprehend: Wisdom

Or Knowledge can not comprehend Wisdom.
Knowledge cannot comprehend anything. Knowledge is just knowledge. Wisdom may comprehend knowledge. What is Wisdom?


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions
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History has shown that humans resist greatly the change of any long held opinion or other wise, belief.
Seems to take great moment of humility to bring about the open minded state for change to happen, thus many have found this book as a result,... and others ..well, this book have just been a extension to their leaps in fantastic thinking :)


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Bart wrote:
TonyMa wrote:
I value what I know. Knowledge plus Worship. Truth is What I know. I do not know what it means by I comprehend: Wisdom

Or Knowledge can not comprehend Wisdom.
Knowledge cannot comprehend anything. Knowledge is just knowledge. Wisdom may comprehend knowledge. What is Wisdom?


Knowledge does not know Wisdom. I value what I comprehend, Worship & Wisdom. I debate with others over what I know, I agree with others over what we know, I may value what I guess, what I think, what I believe, what I know, what I agree, what I truly value, and what I comprehend.

What I guess, think, believe, know and agree can all be brain washed into myself through mechanical means. However, what I truly value and what I comprehend involve true will decisions, and can not be taken out of myself unless I decide not to survive.

[Unsupportable claims expunged from post by admin.]


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions
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Yeah I'd agree. This brings up the whole nature/nurture debate. Both undoubtedly play a huge part in who we are and they definitely bias our ability to fathom truth. I accept it, and walk away. TUB serves as an 'unbrella in which all other religions lie beneath', so I know that some of my beliefs could be wrong in the eyes of the Urantia Book - but they bring me closer to God (always in accordance with The Urantia Book to a certain degree). Anything that promotes intellectual, perceptual and spiritual development is a good thing, right?

Peace,
Azacar

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions
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Well, there are all sorts of ways to externalize the question. That's not the direction I was hoping for. It has value, but what about the rigidity with which we resist change? Is this the hardheartedness or hardheadedness the UB/Bible agree as a too common trait in us? Or is this just a matter of degree with ALL of us?

Opinions speak to our experience and the values WE place on them. Commonly held opinions are kept because they appear to have functional value. But, do "opinions" necessarily have "moral" value?

bill


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Your question need to give way to the transformation of spirit on a person , once that has happened you no longer have an opinion so-much as you are learning to allow Gods will to be come yours.


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions
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I guess I still don’t understand the question. I indicated that basically all we can act on or live up to are opinions or beliefs, which are not necessarily true assessments. And people change their opinion when their perception of the (external) facts changes. At least that’s how it might work ideally.

Truth (true religion) is another matter. According to TUB teachings, apart from the true basic fact of our own existence, there may be just one (related) knowable Truth: the (internal) experiential fact of God’s existence.

I think I agree with J. Barry, that when this truth is known or attained, we may struggle doing God’s will, but this can hardly be called "living up to an opinion". Shouldn’t "true religion" be a (experiential) fact rather than just an opinion..? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions
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OK.
One argument no one wins is to suggest that god is more than an opinion. As ya'll have pointed out, god can only be known by experience. Once WE know god IS, god becomes God ONLY to us. Along with the realization of the actuality of god there eventuates ones personal experience of relationship, god being God and God being in relationship WITH his creation...notably the "I" in each of us. We can only KNOW "I" know God. "True religion", IMHO, starts about there.
The reality of relationship becomes more than an opinion to us, but, only an opinion so far as any other soul is concerned...even other believers. Only WE KNOW. Experience is the only proof.
As more people know God they tend to be drawn together and find some means of relating to their commonly held beliefs by adopting demonstrative practices. Still, they are only sharing commonly held opinions.

Internally, the more we grow to know God, the more we love him and desire his will both in our lives and the greater reality. It's the internal adjustments of our personal opinions that draw us towards higher moral choices. My questionis has to do with how we experience these adjustments.


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions
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My opinion is that if you love your fellow man more today than you did yesterday than you're opinion's have helped give you progress, so than its alll goooood. As spirituality is measured by the degree in which you love your fellow man.

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StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


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I'm get the impression that you don't believe in the uniting power of spirit and see all personal experiences as lacking any common ground. thus being opinion and not really true spirit leading's.

If i am mistaken plz forgive me and attempt to clarify.


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oobie wrote:
… Internally, the more we grow to know God, the more we love him and desire his will both in our lives and the greater reality. It's the internal adjustments of our personal opinions that draw us towards higher moral choices. My question has to do with how we experience these adjustments.
Okay, I think I get it. I’ll try to answer that.. I’m not what you might call God-conscious or God-knowing. I have faith, but my faith is not much more than a strong opinion or belief. I intuitively and philosophically consider the fact and quality of my own conscious existence as the most compelling evidence for a monistic God who is both immanent and transcendent. And if One God is "all and in all", then love and brotherhood make perfect sense as basic values.

I don’t expect that these unifying ideas (or opinions or beliefs) will radically change when my personal level of God-consciousness increases, although they might experientially become extended or enhanced and somehow more factual and true. I feel that Boomshuka is right and that primarily my opinions of my fellow man will (or must) change, such that I can love them more.. :)


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