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 Post subject: How will I know when...
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Hello everyone. I am a new reader and I am thoroughly enjoying UB. I am starting with the Jesus papers. I have been starved spiritualy my whole life, that being said, I know there is no need to look any further than the UB. I consider myself blessed not only to be a reader of the book, but also that I am ready for it. My question is, how will I know when I am experiencing God? For about a year now, I have been steadily meditating, doing yoga, reading various spiritual books, etc.. Although there have been times when I skip a day or two, I continue the next day in my spiritual practices. I feel somewhat enlightened at times although I have a way to go... Also, when I experience God, how can I intensify and multiply it? I want to be a better person, parent, make friends and fill my desire to help others and I know the only way for me to get there is through God.
One more question... I often have doubts and I find myself questioning everything that I am learning. Eventhough in my heart if feels true, my human brain says, how do I know if God even exists? I want to erase these menacing thoughts that creep into my head . How do I do that? I have had many spiritual experiences in my life that have no logical scientific proof behind them. My experiences have been purely from the heart and soul, but that doesn't seem to quiet my doubts.
Thank you,
Erin


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"How will I know when I am experiencing God?" I don't. That's part of the mystery. I LIKE to feel God. I LIKE to feel close to him. I LIKE to have conscious contact with God. I LIKE to believe I am surrounded by Divinity and infused with Deity. But sometimes I don't feel SQUAT. Sometimes I have to depend on blind faith.

I have established wonderful working paradigms of reality through my faith, holistic holograms of divine reality, in which I live and move and have my being and enjoy great peace of mind, where I am effective, productive, whole and happy. And occasionally those well constructed perceptions will eviscerate, fall like a house of cards, leaving me staring into the empty Void, wondering "Now What?!?!"

But I never have to wait long before a new insight will come along upon which I can begin again to construct my perception of who I am in the universe, what I am supposed to be doing, how I am thinking, believing, acting, responding, serving, giving. I figure that if "Love must be redefined on each new level of growth," I must be prepared to be made new each time.

In retrospect, I think these may be us moving from one psychic circle to another, but then again, they may be part of the process whereby our faulty perceptions are torn down to make way for bigger and better perceptions of divine reality. One thing is certain, having survived it the first time, underlying all of it there is an assurance that was not there before. I don't have that stark raving fear I used to have before I experienced God-consciousness, before I identified myself as a child of the living God.

However that looks, however that manifests, that is my key, my foundation. If I can just remember that I am a child of God and my destiny is ultimately in His hands, and that the entire universe "conspires" to lift me up from the density of my animal-origin finitude into the light of divine truth beauty and goodness, then I will not blunder along for long for I know in truth I have already been found and am simply being redirected on my path home to Father.

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Gerdean O'Dell
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Hello vance38 and welcome,

Let's begin with a quote:
Quote:
Because of this difference of opinion between Joseph and Mary, Nahor requested permission to lay the whole matter before Jesus. Jesus listened attentively, talked with Joseph, Mary, and a neighbor, Jacob the stone mason, whose son was his favorite playmate, and then, two days later, reported that since there was such a difference of opinion among his parents and advisers, and since he did not feel competent to assume the responsibility for such a decision, not feeling strongly one way or the other, in view of the whole situation, he had finally decided to "talk with my Father who is in heaven"; and while he was not perfectly sure about the answer, he rather felt he should remain at home "with my father and mother," adding, "they who love me so much should be able to do more for me and guide me more safely than strangers who can only view my body and observe my mind but can hardly truly know me." They all marveled, and Nahor went his way, back to Jerusalem. And it was many years before the subject of Jesus' going away from home again came up for consideration. 123:6.9

Jesus was 8 years old when he had that prayer. I suspect that there are few today who are even close to Jesus' perception of the Father as an 8 year old. The skies don't open up... there's no booming voice of welcome. What you do get are peace, and eventually assurance does come... through faith and through trusting Jesus.

Larry


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Every God seeking mortal wishes to vanquish his doubt/fear overnight not realizing it is a growing process. It takes time for the Adjuster to reach down to your level as you stretch upward.

Prayer and worship are helpful. Choosing the highest value in all possible situations is also. When the will power of the personality is more concentrated upon the spirit reality of the Indwelling Father. The mind transformation (vanquishing doubt/fear) sooner or later will take place.

Cosmically speaking, when a person seeks God, he already finds Him for He is inside with him.

In fact, material reality is full of uncertainties when we are ignorant of the laws governing it. This causes material mind to be doubtful/fearful. Spirit reality is more or less of certainty. The more we experience it, the more sure we are.


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vance38 wrote:
Hello everyone. I am a new reader and I am thoroughly enjoying UB. I am starting with the Jesus papers. I have been starved spiritualy my whole life, that being said, I know there is no need to look any further than the UB. I consider myself blessed not only to be a reader of the book, but also that I am ready for it. My question is, how will I know when I am experiencing God? For about a year now, I have been steadily meditating, doing yoga, reading various spiritual books, etc.. Although there have been times when I skip a day or two, I continue the next day in my spiritual practices. I feel somewhat enlightened at times although I have a way to go... Also, when I experience God, how can I intensify and multiply it? I want to be a better person, parent, make friends and fill my desire to help others and I know the only way for me to get there is through God.
One more question... I often have doubts and I find myself questioning everything that I am learning. Eventhough in my heart if feels true, my human brain says, how do I know if God even exists? I want to erase these menacing thoughts that creep into my head . How do I do that? I have had many spiritual experiences in my life that have no logical scientific proof behind them. My experiences have been purely from the heart and soul, but that doesn't seem to quiet my doubts.
Thank you,
Erin


Even though I agree 1,000,000% with the other posts here, I would say that in response to your question; you'll know when your experiencing God, trust me :D

Peace,
Azacar

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Hi Erin --

One way to look at your question is to acknowledge that God is Love and if you've ever
experienced love you've experienced, in some way, a part of God.

The person who introduced me to the Urantia Book had a great saying that has proven
valuable to me:

"The more you invest God in your thought processes the more you can acknowledge
further summons."

As for my own experiences, I think as my faith (believing without seeing) develops, I
feel increasing peace and calmness in my life which in turn increases my faith.
The quest for God is endless, so I try to be patient with my progress.

As for your doubts and conflicted thinking, that's normal. What I sometimes do is
simply perform a mental exercise of giving it all to God. "Here, Father (I think of
Michael of Nebadon), you know what to do with this (doubts etc) much better
than I."

Anyhow, it sounds like you're doing fine to me.

Peace,
Russ


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Hi vance,

Here's a quote that helps me in those seasons of doubt - and we all experience this at one time or another...

Quote:
159:3.8 The world is filled with hungry souls who famish in the very presence of the bread of life; men die searching for the very God who lives within them. Men seek for the treasures of the kingdom with yearning hearts and weary feet when they are all within the immediate grasp of living faith. Faith is to religion what sails are to a ship; it is an addition of power, not an added burden of life. There is but one struggle for those who enter the kingdom, and that is to fight the good fight of faith. The believer has only one battle, and that is against doubt—unbelief.


http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1411#U159_3_8

Just keep your faith-light lit, even if it sputters now and then...and soldier on...your faith will be rewarded as time goes on. Just as we strive for faithfulness, we can rely on God, who is always faithful to us...

So glad you posted today...


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P.1130 - §6 Religion is functional in the human mind and has been realized in experience prior to its appearance in human consciousness. A child has been in existence about nine months before it experiences birth. But the "birth" of religion is not sudden; it is rather a gradual emergence. Nevertheless, sooner or later there is a "birth day." You do not enter the kingdom of heaven unless you have been "born again"--born of the Spirit. Many spiritual births are accompanied by much anguish of spirit and marked psychological perturbations, as many physical births are characterized by a "stormy labor" and other abnormalities of "delivery." Other spiritual births are a natural and normal growth of the recognition of supreme values with an enhancement of spiritual experience, albeit no
P.1131 - §0 religious development occurs without conscious effort and positive and individual determinations. Religion is never a passive experience, a negative attitude. What is termed the "birth of religion" is not directly associated with so-called conversion experiences which usually characterize religious episodes occurring later in life as a result of mental conflict, emotional repression, and temperamental upheavals


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Aloha Vance and so happy you are reading the UB....know you are not alone in your doubts and a questioning mind is a asset...keep reading...as we mature in faith and trust and once we set out feet on the path to the Father...the light will shine on our way. Here is one of my standby quotes...




34.7.8 Having started out on the way of life everlasting, having accepted the assignment and received your orders to advance, do not fear the dangers of human forgetfulness and mortal inconstancy, do not be troubled with doubts of failure or by perplexing confusion, do not falter and question your status and standing, for in every dark hour, at every crossroad in the forward struggle, the Spirit of Truth will always speak, saying, “this is the way.”


God bless you...............

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vance38 wrote:
... I often have doubts and I find myself questioning everything that I am learning. Eventhough in my heart if feels true, my human brain says, how do I know if God even exists? I want to erase these menacing thoughts that creep into my head . How do I do that? I have had many spiritual experiences in my life that have no logical scientific proof behind them. My experiences have been purely from the heart and soul, but that doesn't seem to quiet my doubts.
Hi Erin. You talk about spiritual experiences that are "purely from the heart and soul" and "have no logical scientific proof". I’m not exactly sure what you mean by that, but perhaps it’s a bit like my own vague sense of being (part of) the whole (or God). I may be aware of this in varying degrees, as an experiential quality of my conscious existence. But (like you) I often doubt the spiritual significance of this implicit feeling or intuition. Indeed, how does one recognize God?

As I understand it, this is a gradual and very personal process, requiring introspective self-knowledge and a (related) sincere attitude towards life’s trials, enabling us to consistently choose the course of action with the highest (spiritual) value. Truth will then be revealed in the fruits of our actions and eventually in conscious communication with our Thought Adjuster.

But it all starts with faith; believing without seeing or knowing, which must be the biggest challenge for most of us. It’s often far from obvious that God is our loving father and that the universe we live in is ultimately a friendly place. However, there is no doubt in my mind that the First Source and Center exists. This fundamental axiom simply has to be true. Any religious or metaphysical philosophy must ultimately arrive at the conclusion that there has to be a first cause or unmoved mover.

It might be a matter of taste and/or faith whether this is interpreted as a "big bang" and an ensuing autonomous universe which evolves strictly in accord with local laws of physics and probability; or as an eternal personal god who is the only existential reality "in which we all live and have our being" and who is in absolute control of everything. I don’t see a logical compromise between these two extreme positions. And to be in control, God must ultimately be our conscious reality, and not just a part of it or merely its first cause.

Free will is a key issue here. To have absolute control, God must have absolute free will, and to have free will, God must be a person. And our individual free will ultimately must be relative to God’s absolute free will. We may have a tiny bit of wiggle room to perform our own free will experiments. But contemplating the phenomena of life and consciousness, one can only conclude that these processes are almost entirely beyond our individual control.

At the same time it seems totally absurd to assume that the complex dynamical organization of life and (individual) consciousness, somehow arises from random, force-directed, local interactions between separate physical particles or atoms or energy quanta. I really cannot take such a position seriously. It simply cannot be done. Such an idea of reality is scientifically infantile and philosophically untenable. IMHO, those who hold such a view must be completely ignorant of the continuous miracle of their own existence.

Thus, although the above argument is far from complete, I think it can be tentatively concluded that God exists. I hope this helps. :)


Quote:
102:6.4 Faith transforms the philosophic God of probability into the saving God of certainty in the personal religious experience. Skepticism may challenge the theories of theology, but confidence in the dependability of personal experience affirms the truth of that belief which has grown into faith.


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vance38 wrote:
I know there is no need to look any further than the UB.


Erin,

Don't stop your search for God at the back cover of the UB. God is too incomprehensibly big to fit in the pages of any book, even one as impressive as the UB. Though it may be the most recent epochal revelation to our planet, it is not the only one, nor will it be the last. We have much to learn from every revelation God has given to us.

Quote:
92:7.3 The many religions of Urantia are all good to the extent that they bring man to God and bring the realization of the Father to man. It is a fallacy for any group of religionists to conceive of their creed as The Truth; such attitudes bespeak more of theological arrogance than of certainty of faith. There is not a Urantia religion that could not profitably study and assimilate the best of the truths contained in every other faith, for all contain truth. Religionists would do better to borrow the best in their neighbors' living spiritual faith rather than to denounce the worst in their lingering superstitions and outworn rituals.


Tony

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"If a man places a gulf between himself and God, this gulf will bring fear. But if a man finds the support of the Invisible and Ineffable, he is free from fear." --from the Taittiriya Upanishad


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Dear Erin,

While we live here on the earth it will be impossible to verify scientifically that there is an Eternal One responsible for our existence. Some of the posters have written about faith, that we need to have faith that at the center of all things there is an Eternal One. Faith simply means trust. Our beloved Eternal Father has lived eternally, so He expects us to trust that what He has told us is true.

That may seem to be a tall order, but our beloved Heavenly Father has given each one of us a precious gift. Some of the highest ranking celestials do not have this gift, but we have this gift. The Eternal One loves us so much that He made provision for us mere mortals. We are finite beings, so it is impossible for us to truly understand the Infinite One. But here is something so beautiful that poets of the world would not be able to write about this with adequacy. The Eternal One purposed long ago to give each of us mere mortals a precious gift. The Eternal One has given us a very piece of Himself. He has split off these Father fragments from Himself to come to dwell in our minds.

These Father fragments do not dwell in our literal brains, but in the realm of the superconsciousness. We have walking beside of us a piece of the Infinite. These beings have information and wisdom that extends back into the eternal past. A piece of the Infinite wants to unite with the finite and eventually create a new creature, a new creation. Can there be anything more sublime than the uniting of a creature of the dust with a spirit fragment of the Infinite One?

We will one day unite with this Father fragment. The blending, the fusion will be so complete that no one will be able to tell where the mortal begins and the Infinite One ends. A beautiful love story of the child uniting with the Creator of all things.

You say Erin that doubts creep into your heart and soul. My dear friend, while we live this life such things are to be expected. But what you may not have discerned is that the Father fragment speaks to us in increasingly contactual tones. It is like these Father fragments are singing to our souls and telling us: "This is the way, walk in it my child."

You may not experience overt signals or an actual voice speaking to you. But you will find the Eternal One in the fragments that He has sent to live in our minds. Have you ever seen or felt something beautiful? Something so beautiful that you were moved to tears? When you hear the voice of an angel singing touching tones of beauty and love you have found the Eternal One. When you see the birth of a precious baby boy or girl you have seen the love of the Eternal One. When you stand on a high mountain and you look out over the valley so rich and green you have found the Eternal One. When you hike in the wilderness and stop to pause and look at a waterfall cascading over a cliff you have found the Eternal One. When you hold the hand of a dying one and whisper into their ears about the resurrection to come, you have found the Eternal One.

Love has come to dwell in your mind Erin. Each step, each stumble, each bruising of your knees is just bringing you closer to that One. When you look at this world and you weep because you love them so much, you have found the Eternal One. You have found the Eternal One because each human being on this earth is so dear to Him. A little baby born in the bush, unknown and forgotten by the world is loved just as much as a King sitting down on his throne.

The Infinite One is not out there somewhere hiding from our attempts to find Him. If we simply reach out our hands to grasp His hand in ours He will take hold and not let go. Your Father fragment extends His hand to you and invites you to take hold Erin. And when you take hold and feel the love of the Infinite flowing through your heart you will have found the Eternal One.

Love,
Paul


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Hi, Erin. Welcome home.
Without reading the other response, let me suggest a different approach. If your life experience has been anything like mine, I'm more aware of those moments when I'm stepping OUT of his will...it's a feeling I think is common but not usually acknowledged.
As a child of our Father we are entitled to expect. Not something mature animals do naturally, IMO. To "expect" is a human perogative.
We've not been trained to believe "expect" to be of spiritual significance. The Urantia Book(UB) invites us to entertain a more interactive relationship with the universe, so, I'd invite you to consider your questions from that point-of-view.
You can change what you "expect".

Think about it and PM me if you wish. I'd consider it an honor to pray with you.

Assume you ARE in his will and see how that starts to adjust your thinking. Beware of ego, pride and whatever your demons may be. Trust Father to be there...he is, always less than a thought away.

Hopefully,
bill


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TonyMa wrote:
Every God seeking mortal wishes to vanquish his doubt/fear overnight not realizing it is a growing process. It takes time for the Adjuster to reach down to your level as you stretch upward.

Prayer and worship are helpful. Choosing the highest value in all possible situations is also. When the will power of the personality is more concentrated upon the spirit reality of the Indwelling Father. The mind transformation (vanquishing doubt/fear) sooner or later will take place.

Cosmically speaking, when a person seeks God, he already finds Him for He is inside with him.

In fact, material reality is full of uncertainties when we are ignorant of the laws governing it. This causes material mind to be doubtful/fearful. Spirit reality is more or less of certainty. The more we experience it, the more sure we are.


Lots of interesting and helpful thoughts here. This one in particular resonates with me. And when speaking of prayer and worship, I would throw in meditation or stillness practice, 20 minutes a day, if possible. Meditation or practicing the Presence is the best way to "stretch upward" on a daily and consistent basis. The UB does not seem to use the word "meditation" much, but I think it can be a form of worship (or lead to it), wherein the creature mind lets go and lets God as opposed to asking for change. Thanking, receiving and loving God, as opposed to focusing on what is lacking is a great way to form thinking habits that help the TA. As the previous poster points out, that over time, the faith connection strengthens while God's presence is increasingly felt. Eventually there is a shift in consciousness that takes place when one is steadfast. I know when I miss a couple of days of stillness practice, I notice it. When I miss four days, I have a feeling that others notice it too. :lol:

Blessings and light,
Will

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The struggle for certainty of indwelling is a process. One needs knowledge like the Urantia Papers, and one also must be spiritually hungry enough that he determines to be 100% sure. He makes sincere effort to contact God, and evaluates the results with his human intellect which "protests against being weaned from subsisting upon the nonspiritual energies of temporal existence." Initially he compares the results with the knowledge of other people's experiences such as "Peace beyond understanding". Eventually he realizes that what is written is not going to match his personal experiences. So he needs to inventory his "spiritual" experiences to figure out what are of psychic/emotional nature and what are of spiritual nature. After he determines those experiences of spiritual nature and the best guess on the enabling factors, he experiments to see whether similar experiences can be repeated in his current life. Repeated similar experiences give the evidence of certainty so the animal mind can not put out no evidence idea. Next step is to study the evidences how one's mind is being adjusted as one makes determined effort to be sure. Thirdly one sincerely asks oneself, what he values the most as a self and determine where is this actually coming from. The animal mind at this point gives up because what a God seeking mortal values the most is invariably comes from the indwelling Father. The animal mind can not lie when the person is sincere. It can not say the value is from material reality or learned externally.

With the knowledge of Uranita Papers, personal spiritual experiences, evidences of animal mind being adjusted, and what one values the most is not learned externally, the materialistic human intellect is overwhelmed and relinquishes the control. Sure, the doubt may still return but with diminishing power and eventually went away. The non-spiritual momentum has been broken.

Quote:
P.1729 - §6 The religion of the spirit means effort, struggle, conflict, faith, determination, love, loyalty, and progress. The religion of the mind--the theology of authority--requires little or none of these exertions from its formal believers. Tradition is a safe refuge and an easy path for those fearful and halfhearted souls who instinctively shun the spirit struggles and mental uncertainties associated with those faith voyages of daring adventure out upon the high seas of unexplored truth in search for the farther shores of spiritual realities as they may be discovered by the progressive human mind and experienced by the evolving human soul.


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