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 Post subject: A question about karma
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Urantia Book teaches that there is no reincarnation. How does it explain the extremely disparate circumstances into which various people are born?

I am especially conscious of this because of my contact with orphans in Third World countries, and especially AIDS orphans.

I am not totally thrilled about the setting of my own birth. My father wrote a partial autobiography covering the period of his life from age zero to age 25. For a number of reasons he had a much better start to life than myself. I can see that I have inherited my various talents from him, but because of the different circumstances of our youth especially, he was able to develop those talents to the full whereas mine have hardly been developed at all.


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Keep reading Mel -- that's what the journey is all about. Perhaps just reading Section 5 in Paper 3 will help you with your question.

Larry


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 Post subject: A question about karma
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lwatkins wrote:
Keep reading Mel -- that's what the journey is all about. Perhaps just reading Section 5 in Paper 3 will help you with your question.

Larry

Nope. Doesn't touch on it.

And how am I supposed to understand this gobbledegook?
UB wrote:
94.3.5 The karma principle of causality continuity is, again, very close to the truth of the repercussional synthesis of all time-space actions in the Deity presence of the Supreme; but this postulate never provided for the co-ordinate personal attainment of Deity by the individual religionist, only for the ultimate engulfment of all personality by the Universal Oversoul.


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Hi Mel -- yes, gobbledegook to any mind seeking understanding without the necessary background. We all struggle with various parts of TUB because the concepts are often just a bit outside our comfort zone or ease of comprehension. It's written the way it is in order to stretch our minds and increase our understanding. If you apply your mind to the words and seek true understanding the gobbledegook opens new avenues; your mind opens to new awareness.

You can read, as most of us may have done at one time, with a disbelieving attitude and dismiss what's on the page. That's pretty much a waste of your time. Revelation is gobbledegook until its truth is absorbed.

Best wishes,
Larry


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HI MEL 8)

IF You think of the Yin and Yang concept
in relation to the answer to your question ,
like you cant have light without darkness etcetera
then these statements from the paper Larry
offered you , Do touch upon the answers ... your lookin for.
Such as ...

'' pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities.''

3:5.14 9.
Is pleasure—the satisfaction of happiness—desirable? Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities.
```````````````
and ...
3:5.5 The uncertainties of life and the vicissitudes of existence do not in any manner contradict the concept of the universal sovereignty of God. All evolutionary creature life is beset by certain inevitabilities. Consider the following:

3:5.6 1. Is courage—strength of character—desirable? Then must man be reared in an environment which necessitates grappling with hardships and reacting to disappointments.

3:5.7 2. Is altruism—service of one's fellows—desirable? Then must life experience provide for encountering situations of social inequality.

3:5.8 3. Is hope—the grandeur of trust—desirable? Then human existence must constantly be confronted with insecurities and recurrent uncertainties.

3:5.9 4. Is faith—the supreme assertion of human thought—desirable? Then must the mind of man find itself in that troublesome predicament where it ever knows less than it can believe.

3:5.10 5. Is the love of truth and the willingness to go wherever it leads, desirable? Then must man grow up in a world where error is present and falsehood always possible.

3:5.11 6. Is idealism—the approaching concept of the divine—desirable? Then must man struggle in an environment of relative goodness and beauty, surroundings stimulative of the irrepressible reach for better things.

3:5.12 7. Is loyalty—devotion to highest duty—desirable? Then must man carry on amid the possibilities of betrayal and desertion. The valor of devotion to duty consists in the implied danger of default.

3:5.13 8. Is unselfishness—the spirit of self-forgetfulness—desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.

3:5.14 9. Is pleasure—the satisfaction of happiness—desirable? Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities.


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 Post subject: A question about karma
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lwatkins wrote:
You can read, as most of us may have done at one time, with a disbelieving attitude and dismiss what's on the page. That's pretty much a waste of your time. Revelation is gobbledegook until its truth is absorbed.

Best wishes,
Larry

I don't have a disbelieving mind. But I have neither the time nor inclination to read such a very large book.

As a former journalist I find the language excessively verbose. It could be condensed to about 20 per cent of its current size making it more readily available. It is carefully written, but not well written.

You are a nice bunch of people and I thank you for your kindness and patience. However I have my priorities. Struggling through 2,000 pages of excessively verbose literature is not one of them. I have practical matters to attend to.

UB may well be the ultimate truth but unfortunately I do not have the time to find out. I am of the opinion that UB is just another religion. I heed the teaching of MacDonald-Bayne and others that truth cannot be expressed in mental concepts.

Earlier tonight I felt obliged to delete my profile from a particular Christian website after being attacked with bigotry and hatred. Maybe I am closing two doors in the one night. But we all know that there are times when one door must be closed in order for a new one to be opened.


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Mel 8)

Also , Mankind is givein the gift of Freewill and
we are liveing and evolveing on a planet
that has many accidents of time.

So , ... Stuff Happens .


112.5.6
Though the cosmic circles of personality growth must eventually be attained, if, through no fault of your own, the accidents of time and the handicaps of material existence prevent your mastering these levels on your native planet, if your intentions and desires are of survival value, there are issued the decrees of probation extension. You will be afforded additional time in which to prove yourself.


147.3.3 In speaking to those assembled, Jesus said: “Many of you are here, sick and afflicted, because of your many years of wrong living. Some suffer from the accidents of time, others as a result of the mistakes of their forebears, while some of you struggle under the handicaps of the imperfect conditions of your temporal existence. But my Father works, and I would work, to improve your earthly state but more especially to insure your eternal estate. None of us can do much to change the difficulties of life unless we discover the Father in heaven so wills. After all, we are all beholden to do the will of the Eternal. If you could all be healed of your physical afflictions, you would indeed marvel, but it is even greater that you should be cleansed of all spiritual disease and find yourselves healed of all moral infirmities. You are all God’s children; you are the sons of the heavenly Father. The bonds of time may seem to afflict you, but the God of eternity loves you. And when the time of judgment shall come, fear not, you shall all find, not only justice, but an abundance of mercy. Verily, verily, I say to you: He who hears the gospel of the kingdom and believes in this teaching of sonship with God, has eternal life; already are such believers passing from judgment and death to light and life. And the hour is coming in which even those who are in the tombs shall hear the voice of the resurrection.”


148.6.11 Then Jesus made this final statement: “The Father in heaven does not willingly afflict the children of men. Man suffers, first, from the accidents of time and the imperfections of the evil of an immature physical existence. Next, he suffers the inexorable consequences of sin — the transgression of the laws of life and light. And finally, man reaps the harvest of his own iniquitous persistence in rebellion against the righteous rule of heaven on earth. But man’s miseries are not a personal visitation of divine judgment. Man can, and will, do much to lessen his temporal sufferings. But once and for all be delivered from the superstition that God afflicts man at the behest of the evil one. Study the Book of Job just to discover how many wrong ideas of God even good men may honestly entertain; and then note how even the painfully afflicted Job found the God of comfort and salvation in spite of such erroneous teachings. At last his faith pierced the clouds of suffering to discern the light of life pouring forth from the Father as healing mercy and everlasting righteousness.”


149.2.10 As Jesus mingled with the people, they found him entirely free from the superstitions of that day. He was free from religious prejudices; he was never intolerant. He had nothing in his heart resembling social antagonism. While he complied with the good in the religion of his fathers, he did not hesitate to disregard man-made traditions of superstition and bondage. He dared to teach that catastrophes of nature, accidents of time, and other calamitous happenings are not visitations of divine judgments or mysterious dispensations of Providence. He denounced slavish devotion to meaningless ceremonials and exposed the fallacy of materialistic worship. He boldly proclaimed man’s spiritual freedom and dared to teach that mortals of the flesh are indeed and in truth sons of the living God.


159.3.13 Teach all believers that those who enter the kingdom are not thereby rendered immune to the accidents of time or to the ordinary catastrophes of nature. Believing the gospel will not prevent getting into trouble, but it will insure that you shall be unafraid when trouble does overtake you. If you dare to believe in me and wholeheartedly proceed to follow after me, you shall most certainly by so doing enter upon the sure pathway to trouble. I do not promise to deliver you from the waters of adversity, but I do promise to go with you through all of them.


166.4.4 “The Father causes his rain to fall on the just and the unjust; the sun likewise shines on the righteous and the unrighteous. You know about those Galileans whose blood Pilate mingled with the sacrifices, but I tell you these Galileans were not in any manner sinners above all their fellows just because this happened to them. You also know about the eighteen men upon whom the tower of Siloam fell, killing them. Think not that these men who were thus destroyed were offenders above all their brethren in Jerusalem. These folks were simply innocent victims of one of the accidents of time.


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Mel 8) the doors allways open here
and I'll leave the light on for yah brother . :idea:

Image


Last edited by coop on Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:24 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: A question about karma
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coop wrote:
HI MEL 8)

IF You think of the Yin and Yang concept
in relation to the answer to your question ,
like you cant have light without darkness etcetera
then these statements from the paper Larry
offered you , Do touch upon the answers ... your lookin for.
Such as ...


Nothing that you have posted is new to me. I knew all this stuff decades ago. However it was Yin and Yang that provided me with the key that ended my search for truth. Everything in the universe has its equal and complementary opposite, including the universe itself. Hence law and chaos (chance or luck) operate concurrently throughout the universe, as they do in our individual lives.

I apologize for this post being out of order because you made your post while I was setting out mine.


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coop wrote:
Mel 8) the doors allways open here
and I'll leave the light on for yah brother . :idea:

Thanks coop. I have mentioned elsewhere that I am currently facing a crisis which may be beyond my ability to handle. My life is very insecure at present and this makes me unwilling to proceed with certain creative endeavours until I have this security. So I am in limbo which is not a place to inspire creativity.


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Mel , Im not sure then WHY
Your asking a question
That you allready have a answer for then ? :? :?:


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Quote:
94.3.5 The karma principle of causality continuity is, again, very close to the truth of the repercussional synthesis of all time-space actions in the Deity presence of the Supreme; but this postulate never provided for the co-ordinate personal attainment of Deity by the individual religionist, only for the ultimate engulfment of all personality by the Universal Oversoul.


Let me give it a try:

Karma (the karma principle) is cause and effect. For every cause there is an effect.
I.e., if I do this, then this will happen. Cause is action; effect is result. If I act, I cause motion. (causality continuity). I cannot act without anticipating something will happen as a result of my actions.

Our "karma" only affects the self (and perhaps, by extension, our environment since we all have to suffer the result of what anybody and everybody else around us does. "No man is an island." This is very similar to what happens with the evolving Supreme. There has to be some lasting value in our experience to affect the evolving Supreme, "the experiential God" that grows in reality as we grow in spiritual reality.

Furthermore, we can bring bad trouble down on ourselves (or others) by making poor decisions, by instigating poor causes. But the karma principle does not factor in what really happens. As we make soul-expanding decisions, the marriage between our mind and the indwelling God fragment becomes indissoluble. This is the "co-ordinate personal attainment of Deity by the individual religionist." We are becoming immortal. We become more than we were. We become more real as we advance in spiritual reality and we do this by our decisions.

Quote:
39.4.14 The keys of the kingdom of heaven are: sincerity, more sincerity, and more sincerity. All men have these keys. Men use them — advance in spirit status — by decisions, by more decisions, and by more decisions. The highest moral choice is the choice of the highest possible value, and always — in any sphere, in all of them — this is to choose to do the will of God. If man thus chooses, he is great, though he be the humblest citizen of Jerusem or even the least of mortals on Urantia.


We can make the same old decisions over and over which get us nowhere, or bad decisions that lead nowhere, or we can make new and improved decisions based on God-consciousness and spirit leading that will lead us throughout our eternal career, all the way to Paradise.

If we decide not to advance, what we have accrued through bumbling along, what we have experienced that is of lasting value, will be assimilated into the Evolving Supreme, the "God of experience," so nothing is wasted. And the choice is ours whether we want to advance or spin our wheels. God can't lose, either way.

Something like that. Right Coop? Correct me if I am misunderstanding that very heady paragraph. I don't regard it as "gobbledygook." It's only gobbledygook if I don't understand it. So, like a complex sentence, I try to break it down into nouns and verbs and prepositional phrases ... and ask questions ... until it makes sense to me.

How'm I doin?

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Gerdean O'Dell
Author: "Secrets of Promise"


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coop wrote:
Mel , Im not sure then WHY
Your asking a question
That you allready have a answer for then ? :? :?:

I was asking what UB teaches about karma. So I obviously did not already have the answer to this question.


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Gerdean wrote:
How'm I doin?

You have said a lot of stuff that I already know about from my experience in life. But then you and myself do seem to be in agreement most of the time. :D


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One of the more satisfying things about the UB for me is the way it confirms what I already knew deep down inside me before I read it. It was a real thrill for me to read it for the first time. My indwelling Adjuster seemed to be very happy that I was grasping the concepts that Deity had set forth for my understanding. Many folks, when they come across the UB, feel they have found something really exciting, really unique, really revelatory.

It is difficult for me to understand how somebody can read this book and not "get it," not be affected by it down to their toenails, not to identify with it in as many ways as they can, who does not feel that the Master is speaking directly to them when he speaks to his apostles. I have met people, college professors and ministers, for example, who read it academically for its information but don't have an emotional response to it, don't take it personally.

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