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In the Adjuster Papers there is a paragraph and the only one i have found that says we need to be aware of how chemicals we ingest affect our minds ability to function with our Adjuster.

I am a person whom has in the past used mind altering drugs to experience life, at one time hoping to find an expanded path to truth, but in the final out come it was a path of self destruction.

I have not taken any drugs for 24 years not even aspirin, But i now.. at 47 years of age am being asked to consider taking some anti-depression meds to cope with some changes in my body's chemistry.

I have a strong resistance towards this course of action, but life problems have mounted to suggest i should follow this course of action.

Science shows that most chemicals which make it past our Blood brain Barrier have in some degree an affect on the Neurons and Neurotransmitters in our brain. thus i ask to what degree do I need to be concerned about the warning in the U.B.

This night seem silly to some of you, but it is a big thing to me so please treat this in the vein in which i am asking it.


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I woke up this morning thinking about something similar. My joints were aching such that I had to get out of bed and I was thinking "maybe I ought to reconsider my attitude about all the medications they would have me take." I still think many of the medications prescribed today are more for the benefit of the people, including the doctors, who hold stock in pharmaceutical companies, but there is also the consideration that they may be helpful in the journey of getting from here to there.

Like you, JB, I took a lot of drugs ... and alcohol. A lot. But I was never a "pill freak." Isn't it something how we manage to tell ourselves we are not abusing drugs since we never take even an aspirin, even as we are popping bennies to stay awake to cram for exams, or smoking joints (but not cigarettes!), or taking LSD every three days as a means of mind expansion?
"Recreational drugs" are not the same as "medication." Having set aside recreational drugs pretty much completely since I dropped in from having dropped out in the late 60's, I have tended to take some wierd pride in being "drug free" by avoiding medications.

But now. Hmmm. The rowdy days of my youth are taking a toll. Or maybe it's just ordinary aging. But if I didn't take Advair and Spiriva for my wonky lungs, I would probably not get out of my chair ... ever. It is recommended I take calcium and vitamin D supplements to fend off osteoporosis. And now this morning my joints were aching such that I had to get out of bed before I was finished sleeping. And, like you, I was thinking that maybe I need to change my attitude about the chemicals I injest (or don't injest) and how they affect my relationship with my Adjuster. Because if all I do is think about the pain, or the depression ... if I spend more time thinking about dying than living ... I wonder how that affects my relationship with my Adjuster? and how effective I am for others while I am still here?

If these depressions of yours were emotionally based, I would say "physician, heal thyself" by doing a more thorough fourth and fifth step, but if they are because of changes in your body chemistry, I would say "better living through chemistry." There's a difference between
escaping from life and escaping from pain. If you administer drugs judiciously, for medicinal purposes, you are the recipient of thousands of hours of study and experimentation, and millions of dollars of medical research that was done in order to serve you and others like you. Consider it God's way of making up for the Adamic default.

Two cents.

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Hey J -

J. Barry wrote:
In the Adjuster Papers there is a paragraph and the only one i have found that says we need to be awaer of how chemecal we ingest affect our minds ability to function with our Adjuster.


A strong faith in God is stronger than all drugs combined. =)

It's our thoughts that lead us God-ward. Even if we've ingested
some sort of chemical (and that includes all the stuff they put
in soda pop these days!), the avenue to God (think Michael of
Nebadon) is open.

I think where it becomes literally fuzzy is where drugs start
truly taking away functionality of the wetware (the brain),
long-term due to physical damage.

-r


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J Barry,
Serious business indeed. Do you trust the person making the recommendation?
Do you feel that this person is qualified to make such a recommendation?
Does this person know about your religious convictions and beliefs?
If the answers to these questions are positive, it should help you be more comfortable with any decision that you end up making.
2 cents
8)

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Oh, JB...I understand your concern. And I have to agree with Gerdean:

If these depressions of yours were emotionally based, I would say "physician, heal thyself" by doing a more thorough fourth and fifth step, but if they are because of changes in your body chemistry, I would say "better living through chemistry." There's a difference between escaping from life and escaping from pain. If you administer drugs judiciously, for medicinal purposes, you are the recipient of thousands of hours of study and experimentation, and millions of dollars of medical research that was done in order to serve you and others like you. Consider it God's way of making up for the Adamic default.

You've been walking the walk for many years, and have been smack in the midst of life with all that it brings you...up close. I'm going on the assumption that you have a doc who is very familiar with the program and understands those strange little twists of our minds.

Plus, it may simply be of a short duration, maybe a jump start to your changing system. Keep your friends close...especially those that talk straight to you when you don't want to hear it :wink: .

Peace
Jo


I have one friend who is a UB reader, in the program, but his preoccupation and lack of concentration due to depression (brought on by physical changes) finally pushed him to find professional relief. He keeps in close contact with his doc and his sponsor and has continued to build on those many years, and continued to help many more people. Like the UB and the BB tell us, it really is the motivation and desire behind our actions. Your inner honesty will guide you.
Trust It.

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)


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it's not an issue of me trusting the Doctor, i do, i just don't trust drugs.. :)

I have a clear understanding of how most drug work in our body's, and maybe there is one out there that would be good for me, (in the short term), I don't want to be a long term user of any kind of medication, they all have their risks and it increases the longer you use them.

But my concern and question was more to the point of how the U.B. said we must be aware of how chemicals ingested can affect our relationship with our adjuster.

Ive seen the images of neurons with brittle Mylin sheaths due to meds in long term use, I have studied illegal drugs affect on the brain and meds have similar affects in long term damage.

If our gray matter is slightly altered it can change perception, clarity, Focus of thought, memory,Mood, you name it, all do to the damage of chemicals on the brain.

We may feel like we function just fine, but in matters of true mental potential we could fall short of the mark. sure we say Yea to the Happy pill, as long as the doctor gives it to us, and it just may stop the depression, but at what cost?

I'm a skeptic looking for insight.


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Like Gerdean suggested...how much is this interfering with your adjuster now? All anyone can do is present the pros and cons...you and your own guide will come up with the answer.

If you're looking for the "perfect" answer, JB, you know better than anyone that it can be a crapshoot. But I doubt if short-term use is going to cause long-term damage. You'll know quickly how it is affecting you...and you will have the ability to stop taking it...whatever "it" is. But I certainly understand your concerns.

Jo

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)


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I gave you all I had. I didn't suggest you throw caution to the wind. I don't trust doctors either. It seems they are the new candy man. For instance, my doctors set me up for tests and write out prescriptions for this that and the other thing at the drop of a hat. I have refused expensive tests that I didn't feel were necessary and have opted not to get on a regiment of medicines for one thing or another on principle. I don't want to be 70 years old and taking 17 pills every day and letting them eat my stomach. I embrace my wrinkles, I cherish my gray hair. I don't need Botox or Clairol. Instead, I have modified my diet and I make a point of getting more sunshine. And I spent large amounts of time with God so that I know I am in good hands, no matter what. We can't keep ourselves going artificially forever! Everybody's gotta die someday. Of something. Just watch out for steroids. They will do a number on you. And again, if you don't have to take it, don't. I appreciate your respect for "the easier softer way" but, in the long run, only you can decide.

In truth, I don't remember the UB saying anything like what you suggest here. I know it tells us we ought not worry so much what goes into our mouth as what comes out of it, but ...

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I have a step brother who has been diagnosed as schizophrenic. I don't want to be around him when he is "off his meds". In fact, I don't want to be around ANYBODY when they are "off their meds" because there is no way to relate with them. Rumor has it that schizophrenics don't want to take their meds because they lose their unique perspective and instead they have to live inside the box like the rest of us. It's not all that bad, inside the box. We can still play, and think, and work, and love, and pray.

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Quote:
I'm a skeptic looking for insight.


Ok. She may not have any knowledge of addictions, but....

...there is one here that has an in depth knowledge of the UB and also has a medical background. Someone want to holler for Iris?

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)


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jak,
I won't touch that one with 10 ' pole!
JB,
You don't trust the drugs? Or you don't trust JB?
8)

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Dear J,
I want to provide some food for thought on the idea of using drugs to handle depression. I am not a doctor, so take what I say with a grain of salt. In addressing whether drugs interefere with TA's ability to function, much is said about the poisons of the mind, which also include anger, jealousy and bigotry. Simply put, TA are like drivers of a car - and you are the car. So in order for a car to drive properly, all of its mechanical parts must be well maintained.

In our world today, too much emphasis is put on taking drugs. Its a huge profit machine-HUGE. Doctors and psychiatrists use drugs to treat the symptoms, but they ignore the cause, and the cause (I believe) is a life out of balance.

The real key, and I believe the one most often overlooked when it comes to understanding what really causes depression or bi-polarism, or whatever diagnosis they come up with, has to do with the overall imbalance of the spiritual, physical, intellectual and emotional state of the individual

There are references in the UB which addresses the pillars of a balanced life: If any of these are neglected or if one of these is paid lots of attention to, but the others are neglected, imbalance occurs - thus making it harder for the TA to assist its physical partner. The TA is wholly spiritual, but we are almost wholly physical, therefore, our physical state must be in balance in order for the spiritual guide to be most effective in our lives.


Physical balance: are you eating the right foods and getting enough excercise? How is your diet?
Intellectual: are you enlarging your mind with knowledge?
Emotional: Are you servng your fellow brothers and sisters. Forget thyself is a great way to not take yourself to seriously.
Spiritual: Allow the spirit to work through you - not for you - and express gratitude in this partnership. Humility and gratitude are the real keys to spiritual growth

In my life, people who are most happy are people who do things - they stay busy and productive. Unhappy people sit around a lot, watch way too much tv and complain that life sucks. For these people, taking a pill is an easy way to address the problem, but they end up taking drugs for life and never really fix anything. They feel better without every having to do anything. Believe me, nothing makes pharmecueticals companies happier. For them it's a lifetime revenue stream.

Drugs may create the illusion that all is well, but if the underlying cause of one's mental illness is self-pity or nutritional, intellectual and emotional deficiency - then the TA will have a harder time guiding us with true spiritual insight they can offer.

I know there are cases where drugs can and do benefit some, but for most of us, it really is about nutrition, service to others, a dedication to intellectual growth and remaining humble -these are the best ways to achieve a physical balance that creates better spiritual reception of God's spirit guide.

It is the balance of the spiritual, physical and intellectual parts that will ensure the best possible life in human form.



I hope this is helpful to you my brother.

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Jim Watkins
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Brother Barry

I understand your problem since I to stopped using 21 years ago. But with age [69] I was prescribed pain killers for artheritist, Naprozin. And here lately I developed a severer pain in my right hip that has been so excrushiating, now I'm on Oxicodone, and Gabapentin narcotic drugs. Before my hip problems it included Metamorhopine for blood suger and Triamterne for high blood presure. My drug years did inform me of the dangers of most drugs. Since I live in California a state that has legalized medical Marijuana, I had a talk with my doctor and he very understanding of my severe pain actually gave me a prescription for Medical Marijuana. Not having smoked Marijuana in 21 years, the experience was as I expected. The soothing effects made me tollerate my pains some what better. It didn't take the pain away, it just made it possible to withstand it better.

There is no better fix in the world for depression than Marijuana. I don't suggest you use it your going to make that decision yourself.

As to the reference in the UB concerning drugs use and the effects it will have on your mind is a caution well observing. The mind clogged with mind altering drugs can't hear his TA as he should. Lucky for humanity Marijuana doesn't prevent clear communication with ones soul. Clarity of thought, physical responses are not changed. Some of you might desagree but you
J. who having used will be able to make a good decission when the time comes. I don't know if your state has legalized it but there are at least 5 or more now allowing medical Marijuana.

God bless J, I hope you get better..........Jess


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ut oh....

well brother you are a strong spirited citizen of our fathers heavenly kingdom and you had to go through more then most people to get there! Let's look at what that does... It builds up your character, your will, your truth meter, your god consciousness, and it even gives your the ability to trade your mind for Jesus'... <--that is so awesome BTW, so those are some awesome tools and I'm sure I'm even missing some.

So if you start to take the prescribed drugs and you feel that your mind is dangerous to yourself then trade it for Jesus' :)

I know smoking weed, or drinking or taking any other mind altering drugs are not your way, and our father knows it's not your way and he will aid you brother because you deserve it! "you must abandon all anxiety, those troubles hardest to bare are ones that never come to pass"

I just think you fearful you might slip into and fiendish thought process again do be of good cheer brother you are too far advanced for that... Trust me I understand with one more sip, or one more line, or whatever was your drug of choice at that time you would be that person instantly again, but in all honesty brother you are not that man any longer... <--never again!!! you are a might messenger of God on Urantia and your work here is not done yet... Worry about that, and our father will take care of you as long as your heart and mind are in the right place :)

I love you brother and I will pray for our father to guide, and help you come to the best decision :)

your brother dave


P.S. I'm not depressed by any stretch of the imagination brother Jess but I do enjoy me some marijuana : ) However it's because I'm immature, and learning to slowly give it up. My goal is to stop smoking by 33... I turn 30 in October.... Waat waat waaaaaaaaa :*(

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Time to step in here. We won't allow this discussion list to be misused as a place for extolling the wonders of illegal drugs -- medical marijuana is as illegal in most states as crack.

I commend you Brother Dave in at least having the maturity to recognize your immaturity as a smoker. Jess says that marijuana doesn't prevent clear communication with one's soul. I question what you consider to be clarity of thinking.

Brother Dave, maturity comes when you take control -- today is a better day for exhibiting that consecration of will than some nebulous future time.

Truthbook.com promulgates the teachings of The Urantia Book -- it's proscription against mind altering substance use is irrefutable; immature self-gratification is the only valid excuse for disregarding those warnings. This is also a family friendly site -- I want you to consider a child reading this discussion and the kind of role models you've made of yourselves.

If you would be first in the kingdom, seek to minister these good truths to your brethren in the flesh. But whosoever causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hanged about his neck and he were cast into the sea. If the things you do with your hands, or the things you see with your eyes give offense in the progress of the kingdom, sacrifice these cherished idols, for it is better to enter the kingdom minus many of the beloved things of life rather than to cling to these idols and find yourself shut out of the kingdom. 158:8.1

Item 4. in our posting guidelines stipulates that you may not provide any content that may give rise to our civil or criminal liability or which may constitute or be considered a violation of any local, national or international law, including but not limited to laws relating.

[I've edited this post in an attempt to make it less confrontational]

Larry


Last edited by lwatkins on Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:45 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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