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 Post subject: Got attacked today
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I was in a religious discussion on a forum I go to a lot, and a young woman had questions of a spiritual nature, and I got involved in the thread. As the discussion went on and after I had posted a considerable amount, considerably colored by the UB, a couple of strident dogmatists came into the thread telling me I was spewing blasphemy, was going to Hell, and was prolly a Mormon, and that Joseph Smith was a liar and a chicken thief already roasting in Hell... ad nauseum.

This is why I am usually very careful about who I talk to about the UB. Some out there will just come right out of their shoes when it doesn't perfectly match up with their dogma.

Notwithstanding all this tumult three of the other women in the thread expressed interest in what I was posting, and in private messages I directed them to the UB site.

I shall be waiting to see what fruit this might bear.

a.


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funny how things work out, eh?


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 Post subject: open discussion
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Amy

Its difficult to talk to people, in the fundamentalist Christian sector about the UB. After 40 years of Bible studies I have found certain discrepancies or inconsistencies in the different translations of the Bibles which cause some confusion among these many different denomentations. Did you know that there are at least 325 different Christian sects? Some of them so bold as to tell you that you are going to hell if you don't join there church. Confusion is rampant among our brothers. With the proper approach we can talk to them long enough to creat interest. Its has taken me years to develope this strategy, I was a misrable failure when I first read the UB and in my excitement I wanted to tell the world about this brilliant manuscript that we know as the UB. They looked at me with an unbelievable look that I would even consider any book other than the Bible.

One stradegy is just to follow what Jesus tells us; Never once did he attack their errors or even mention the flaws in their teachings. In each case he would select the truth in what they taught and then proceeded so to embellish and illuninate this truth in their minds that in a very short time this enhancment of the truth effectively crowded out the associated error. (1456:0) He said: "Do not forget that you are commissioned to go forth preaching only the good news. You are not to attack the old ways; you are skillfully to put the leaven of new truth in the midst of the old beliefs. Let the Spirit of Truth do his own work. (1932:1)

I would like to know about these forums. I think I would enjoy talking to them.

Brother......Jess


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 Post subject: Re: open discussion
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Jess Vasquez wrote:
One stradegy is just to follow what Jesus tells us; Never once did he attack their errors or even mention the flaws in their teachings. In each case he would select the truth in what they taught and then proceeded so to embellish and illuninate this truth in their minds that in a very short time this enhancment of the truth effectively crowded out the associated error. (1456:0) He said: "Do not forget that you are commissioned to go forth preaching only the good news. You are not to attack the old ways; you are skillfully to put the leaven of new truth in the midst of the old beliefs. Let the Spirit of Truth do his own work. (1932:1)

I would like to know about these forums. I think I would enjoy talking to them.

Brother......Jess


Jess I remember this well, and I wish I had remembered it today. I was so taken aback by the sheer hostility of these two fundie guys' onslaught I didn't remember Jesus's teaching, but instead pointed out to the others in the thread their intolerance of anyone who didn't strictly conform to their dogma, citing such attitudes as the causes of the Inquisition, the crusades, and all the religious persecution since the time of Jesus.

You have pointed out an area I really need to work on. From now on I'll be keeping this in mind.

a.


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I like Jess' idea Amy and your attitude of Love and Al's support. It's a good combo. God's Love be with you and all here. :smile:

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Hello Amy.

One thing you have to understand about religion, or should I say other peoples religion. Anytime you oppose an already established view of faith, you directly insult that individual's, or group of individuals, very intelligence, ancestors, way of life, love for an entity, etc. Many things are attatched to a person's religion.

In fact, I think it should be against the law to try and speak the language of your religion and/or faith to any group of believers who already have an established religion for themselves. Saying that you are of a different religion is one thing, but don't try to change another person's mind about GOD, even if you think it is similar. You wouldn't have another person come into your house telling YOU that YOUR house rules, and the way you raise your family is all wrong would you?..Okay then, so the same goes for religion.

I think too many people FORGET to acknowledge the significance of faith and religion. It IS the biggest, most meaningful thing in the human's heart. When I came in to this forum, in the very beginning of my opening I made sure I let everyone know I was desireable to believe this faith. So, I showed that, even though I was in great disbelief, I was also in great possible belief, and that I wasn't here to simply entertain myself with conflict. Have more compassion towards other faiths and peoples of faith, and less pride in your own. Compassion saved Jesus' life many times.

Anyway, just my input.

lux, vita, amor,

RS

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Solis_Spiritus wrote:
Hello Amy.

One thing you have to understand about religion, or should I say other peoples religion. Anytime you oppose an already established view of faith, you directly insult that individual's, or group of individuals, very intelligence, ancestors, way of life, love for an entity, etc. Many things are attatched to a person's religion.


Umm... I DIDN'T oppose anyone's religion, I stated my own belief, and THEY attacked ME for it. They did all the opposing in that thread, and I felt pressed to defend myself.

I well understand their need to attack me, any new truth threatens the packaged body of truth they have opted into, and if this new truth really is the truth they lose all the concrete certainty they opted into their evolved religion for, so, out of fear, they have to attack it.

I should like to add, what I posted about my faith contained no element of pride. I think you are reading that in. I simply stated what I believe in a conversation about religion, and two men quite beligerantly attacked me for it, calling it blasphemy and condemning me in nastiest ways they could think of.

a.


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I do apologize if I'm coming off defending them. However, I am defending their own lack of knowledge, just like I would defend a person mentally incapable. You must love people who have such anger towards you, because it is their lack of intellect that makes them primitively lash out at you, as they are greatly afraid OF your faith.

Would you walk into an alligator pit with a piece of meat dangling from your belt and not expect to be bitten? The same goes for religion, or faith. Don't mention your faith if you know it will not be accepted well. Faith is as innocent and pure as a baby. Don't bring it around the lesser fortunate beings. And who's to say we are concretely correct?..Maybe we could be just like them, in ignorance.

If the Spirit knows they are capable enough to understand the UB, then they will pick it up as we all did, alone.

lux, vita, amor,

RS

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Solis_Spiritus wrote:
Don't mention your faith if you know it will not be accepted well.


So.... just never talk about what I believe with others? I think not.
And it was being accepted well, until the two men decided to crash the party.

I never mentioned the UB in that conversation, in fact I took pains not to, and stuck to the basics. It didn't matter. When the conversation started a young woman was asking sincere questions, and I shared what I could with her in an effort to help... with no mention of the UB. Others joined the conversation, and it was going very well, until these two guys busted in and got nasty.

I don't think you can avoid that on the web in general, there are always going to be fundies out there actively looking for someone to land on, and for that we have the ignore list, which I put to good use.

m.


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We believe what we believe because we think what we believe is true -- whether we're unbelievers or atheists, Baptists or Catholics, Moslem or Urantian. No sane person professes to believe what they think is untrue. If my belief is big enough that I can see the error in someone else's belief, think Jesus here, it's not my job to set them straight, but I can do them a favor by expressing my belief in a way that could cause them to pause to consider, question, examine from another point of view.

All beliefs aren't good, all beliefs aren't based in reality, still, those who hold them do so because they think they're true and as Solis described, any rebuttal of another's beliefs is experienced as a personal attack to one's intelligence. Curious or searching individuals may appreciate learning about someone else's beliefs and may be willing to test them for themselves while anyone who is self-satisfied in their beliefs will not and will most likely put up a strong defense.

It looks to me like Amy did the right thing -- expressed her own belief. That she was attacked is just another aspect of ministry. Our Christian fundamentalist friends tend to be the most unfriendly group of them all.
Larry


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Amy wrote:
So.... just never talk about what I believe with others? I think not.
And it was being accepted well, until the two men decided to crash the party.


Nothing wrong with expressing your beliefs, and it is very sensible not to attack the beliefs of others... regardless of that, you will always find people who are very intolerant of anything that is not strictly within what they view as truth...


Last edited by Myrmidon on Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:35 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Myrmidon wrote:
Amy wrote:
So.... just never talk about what I believe with others? I think not.
And it was being accepted well, until the two men decided to crash the party.


Nothing wrong with expressing your beliefs, and it very sensible not to attack the beliefs of others... regardless of that, you will always find people who are very intolerant of anything that is not strictly within what they view as truth...


Myrmidon welcome. very wise words. I'd say you have been influenced by "the truth found" somewhere, or perhaps from many places, in your life's experience. Bless You Myrmidon welcome and God's peace be with you.

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Myrmidon wrote:

Nothing wrong with expressing your beliefs, and it is very sensible not to attack the beliefs of others... regardless of that, you will always find people who are very intolerant of anything that is not strictly within what they view as truth...


Boy ain't that the truth! It's the reason I am usually very circumspect about who I share the UB with. Some people may not react very well, so I try to feel them out over time and guage how receptive they might be, and if they might be looking for more spiritually than they have been getting.

In that thread I found 3 people who wanted to know more, so in private messages I sent them the link to the UB site, and there's a fellow in Ireland who told me I'd given a skeptic much food for thought, and we have an ongoing conversation.

I would NOT post the link to the UB in the public forum, nor will I mention it by name there, that would just invite hostility from the aforementioned types.

It's the people who have serious and sincere questions I'm looking for there, because I was in their position once, and no one seemed to have any answers, at least none that made any sense. For a time there I ended up quite the bitter little atheist, until I found the UB.

That's what drives me to share this with others who want more of the truth than they have been getting, and who aren't satisfied with what is doled out in church on Sundays, or with the fossilized religions of authority. This I understand very very well.

a.


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Amy wrote:

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That's what drives me to share this with others who want more of the truth than they have been getting, and who aren't satisfied with what is doled out in church on Sundays, or with the fossilized religions of authority. This I understand very very well.


Well said Amy!

P.1766 - §4 The world is filled with hungry souls who famish in the very presence of the bread of life; men die searching for the very God who lives within them. Men [Humankind] seek for the treasures of the kingdom with yearning hearts and weary feet when they are all within the immediate grasp of living faith. Faith is to religion what sails are to a ship; it is an addition of power, not an added burden of life. There is but one struggle for those who enter the kingdom, and that is to fight the good fight of faith. The believer has only one battle, and that is against doubt--unbelief.

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Myrmidon welcome. very wise words. I'd say you have been influenced by "the truth found" somewhere, or perhaps from many places, in your life's experience. Bless You Myrmidon welcome and God's peace be with you.


Thanks, Joer... Bless you.


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