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Can science lead us to Spirituality?
Yes 86%  86%  [ 31 ]
No 14%  14%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 36
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You know there are so many of us who have an interest in Science and scientific discovery.

Randy mentioned on one thread somewhere that it would be nice to have an area to discuss science stuff. I've seen so many who are interested in it. And perhaps there are others besides myself that believe that whereas it might be seen that science seemed to lead so many from God and Spirituality in the 20th century, I think science and scientific discovery and analysis when applied to the physical realities that are a reflection of the cosmic and all encompassing spiritual and creative mind God, will lead many more believers BACK to spirituality and God as we slowly but constantly realize and discover that what we study and how we study comes from the same spiritual reality of God manifested as a time space and material continuum of dimensions of a physical reality. Just one of many realities consisting of multiple dimensions containing the limits of those realties.

I found this link rich with connections between present scientific discovery and TUB science stuff. Since there is so much skepticism between the connections of those two perceptions of our current physical realities, I thought this would be a good place to discuss these things without running a foul of our primary purpose of Spiritual realization. I personally believe that science is going to take us to the spiritual in ways previously unexpected.

http://www.urantiabook.org/index_science.htm

So Randy, RayOk, Majeston, Coyote, Jak. maryjo, Tootsie, Coop, maybe a guest appearance by Iris, sojouner, the return of arcfixer, masionheads, Mr. Shakita, Jason, Tramp Larry, JimW, Chriss, Mark, and so many more whom I've seen post on science threads before. The beautiful pictures. the explorations of teh universes as outlined in TUB. The discovery of Atlantis (Eden). Oh yeah sevens, looking for Dalamantia. Tasneem questions of TUB science. Dana the time displacement discussion. Fetish, Froggy, Karlus, Carl, WLM, Woody, truth Bill, Uncle Bill, PaulaT, PaulaL, Gerdean and on and on so many of us have participated in science interests in our world and how they are related to TUB.

So anyway, her's a thread about science stuff. And a link to many connections between science and TUB. At a Time when Nasa is looking to interactive participation and sharing of data for public analisis by those who have the interest lets have some fun!! :smile:

http://www.urantiabook.org/archive/readers/coming_sci_val_abstr2.htm
Quote:
The Coming Scientific Validation of the Urantia Book
Extended Abstract
Philip Calabrese


Phenomena correctly described in The Urantia Book: Probability Estimate


Evolution is true but no "missing link" exists; Piltdown man is a hoax: ≤ 1/50

Pangaea, floating continents drifted, formed mountains when obstructed ≤ 1/40

Injured cells secrete chemicals stimulating proliferation of nearby cells: ≤ 1/50

"No less than 375 million" new galaxies will be seen: ≤ 1/100

"Walls" (actually rings) of galaxies are separated by huge voids: ≤ 1/100

Stronger telescopes will see huge red shifts of more than 30,000 mi/sec: ≤ 1/5

Galaxies spin fast; dark matter keeps them together: ≤ 1/5

Neutrinos exist and have mass ≤ 1/4



So given human authorship of the Urantia Book, the combined probability of all of these happening by chance (or by generally following the contemporary scientific beliefs) is



≤ (1/50)(1/40)(1/50)(1/100)(1/100)(1/5)(1/5)(1/4)

≤ 1/100,000,000,000 = less than 1 chance in 100 billion,



a very unlikely event! Many other examples exist reducing this probability even more. Some estimates might be raised and some lowered, but the result will be the same, an event with very small probability given human authorship.

Superhuman Authorship.
A sequence of likely pitfalls and unpopular positions and other positions can hardly ALL turn out well without superhuman authorship. There are no obvious systematic scientific blunders even though it takes some initially implausible positions. On the other hand given superhuman authorship all this becomes likely. Therefore the Urantia Book had superhuman authors.

The reason that I, a scientist, and as a scientist, believe the science of The Urantia Book and so the authenticity of The Urantia Book as divine revelation to our world is because of its humanly improbable avoidance of systematic error and the meandering convergence over the years by contemporary science to implausible positions taken by the Urantia Book authors.

Scientific & Spiritual Value of The Urantia Book. It has become fashionable in some Urantian publications to regularly warn readers that the science and cosmology is "not inspired", but instead "transient" and has "errors on its face", and even that it supposedly represents only the best of 20th century science, which is already, after a "few short years", in need of revision. To justify such supposed errors it has even been suggested that superhuman authors purposely wrote known scientific falsehoods (not just imprecise statements) so that the Urantia Book would not become a fetish!!

This shows just how far wrong logic can go when based on a false premise, namely that there are large numbers of errors already apparent in the cosmology of the Urantia Book. But the Urantia Book precludes such faulty interpretations when it says that these self-qualifications of the cosmology of the Urantia Book do not prevent it from being of "immense value" [p.1109],

a) Immense value in reducing confusion by an authoritative elimination of error,

b) Immense value in co-ordination of known or about-to-be-known facts and observa­tions,

c) Immense value in the restoration of important bits of lost knowledge concerning epochal transactions in the distant past,

d) Immense value in supplying information that will fill in vital missing gaps in otherwise earned knowledge,

e) Immense value by presenting cosmic data in such a manner as to illuminate the spiritual teachings contained in the accompanying revelation [p.1109]

This immense value of the cosmology of the UB cannot be quickly appropriated until scientists in sufficient numbers take the Urantia Book seriously. Nor would it really be of immense value were it to be superseded by contemporary scientists in a few short years without their ever consulting it. That would mean instead that it was of little value to our scientists. As it is, even in 2005 this immensely valuable cosmology from the 1955 Urantia Book remains largely unrecognized and unrealized by contemporary science.

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Joer, sounds like fun and a wothy service.
I was once asked to consider the relationship between mathematics and philosophy. My closing argument was something like:
The limitations of mathematics is exceeded by the infinite potential of living in full accordance with ones personal philosophy. (A++, meet me after class.)
IMHO, science invariably points back to a root cause, a creative intelligence in the universe, our Father. It will be interesting to view the sciences of the universe in our morontial and spirit forms. Oh, how our perspectives will be adjusted. How far we are, collectively, from finding our Father in science and yet so inevitable.
There is a current example I'd like to discuss. First, let me testify that I believe this is reflective of our Fathers' will.
Science has produced a nutritional food supplement. The primary attraction is called acai (ah-SIGH-ee). It is a wild berry found in the remaining Amazon forests and has the support of science regarding the beneficial qualities of the fruit juice blend called ...

[Advertisement removed by admin. You can talk theory without promoting products. Try an do so.]

Read about the science and the business philosophy to see a current enlightenment.
The locals in the Amazon pick the fruit and transport the fresh berries to a larger vessel where a patent pending process creates a stable powder called Opti-Acai within a few hours of being picked. Wild berries 70-90 feet atop the Acai Palm.
People who are following the usage instruction and recommended dosages are reporting some rather unusual positive results.
I was telling some folks today that this product is the best thing from science since the creation of vaccines.
The local people of Brazil refer to the Acai Palm as the "Tree of Life". That stirred my spirit with the thought that this may be our Fathers' way of restoring a portion of what we lost when His Tree of Life died on Urantia.
Wouldn't it be just like Father to answer our prayers this way? And use science to support the product?
I, personally, have found life in [andevert removed] and a desire to share.


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It's a pyramid scheme. Wake up man!

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Howdy Bill's! :smile: God's blessings be with. I don't know about the plant science right now. But I'm sure others might know something about it. But one thing that has gotten a lot of interest is Is the Milky Way Orvonton? I found something interesting on that science section at the fellowship site that seem related to a recent thread on the In the Media section on this site: If you take a quick look at Randy's post here:

Urantia not originally part of Milky Way?http://forums.truthbook.com/viewtopic.php?t=2156

You'll see this beautiful picture randy put in showing the Sagittarius Dwarf galaxy at almost a 90º angle to our Milky Way.
and the following text with it.

Quote:
The fact that the Milky Way is seen in the sky at an angle has always puzzled astronomers. If we originated from the Milky Way, we ought to be oriented to the galaxy's ecliptic, with the planets aligned around our Sun in much the same angle as our Sun aligns with the Milky Way. Instead, the angle suggests that our Sun is influenced by some other system. Now we know what it is. We actually belong to the Sagittarius Dwarf galaxy.


Now the following is an excerpt of a Dan Massey Paper from 1979 and I found that TUB's description here seemed eerily close to what I see in the picture Randy posted. And the mention of how our rotational center is in Sagittarius. I don't know it's just stuff like this that as I live on never ceases to amaze me. That supposedly new discoveries or ideas seem to have been mentions in TUB 51 years ago.

..." (p.325). On page 168 we are told "the rotational center of your minor sector is ...in...Sagittarius...and from opposite sides of the vast...system you may observe two great streams of star clouds..." These streams have been observed and mapped. Conventional astronomy associates them with the "spiral arms of our galaxy."

Look at Randy's picture. Does this description fit it or not?

Now I'm sure there are many other things in Dan Massey's paper that by now have been clarified, noted as error, etc. But on this Sagittarius thing he looks like he was headed in the right direction. If he knows about the info that Randy posted I'll bet he's saying "I knew there was something going on there with Sagittarius!" "That's what it was!" :smile:


http://www.urantiabook.org/archive/science/milkyway.htm

Quote:
Is the Milky Way Orvonton?
Dan Massey
April 1979
________________________________________
On p. 167 we are told "the vast Milky Way starry system represents the central nucleus of Orvonton..." therefore, there must be some of Orvonton which is not in the Milky Way. We are told that they include in this reference "...globular clusters, star clouds, spiral and other nebulae..."
First, then, the authors of the Book mean "Milky Way" to refer to a visual phenomenon of light in the sky. This is the original meaning of the term "galaxy." In recent years, with the growing dominance of the theory of Hubble that the spiral nebulae are extragalactic bodies, astronomers have ceased to classify the "spiral nebulae" as part of the Milky Way, and assumed they are located far outside. (Of course, many are located in other parts of the sky)
In recent years, radio astronomy has been applied to mapping "our galaxy." This has been found to be a sort-of spiral nebula looking object, about 30,000 light years in radius, centered on an enormously brilliant radio source in the constellation Saggitarius. This description is generally consistent with the expected size and center of our Minor Sector, Ensa, on whose headquarters worlds are "the vast reserves of the physical controllers..." (p.325). On page 168 we are told "the rotational center of your minor sector is ...in...Saggitarius...and from opposite sides of the vast...system you may observe two great streams of star clouds..." These streams have been observed and mapped. Conventional astronomy associates them with the "spiral arms of our galaxy."
Ensa is 1/1000th of Orvonton, therefore it is about 1/10th the radius and 1/10th the thickness of Orvonton (cubic volume varies as the cube of the change in linear measure). If Ensa is 30,000 light-years in radius, then Orvonton is about 300,000 light-years in radius. On p. 359 we are told that it is 250,000 light-years from the outermost inhabited worlds of Orvonton to Uversa, at the enter of the superuniverse.
There are, indeed, thousands of objects the size of the "Milky Way spiral nebula" in the sky. There are 1,000 in Orvonton, and an equal number in each of the other superuniverses. On p. 130 we are told that we will soon see "no less than 375 million new galaxies in the remote stretches of outer space." The most extensive survey of galaxies to date suggests there are about ten million visible out to 2,800 million light-years (see "The Clustering of Galaxies," in Scientific American, November 1977, p. 76 for more on galactic surveys and estimated distributions, but some of the inferences may not be correct).
If the Milky way nominally contains 100 billion suns, this is not inconsistent with the idea that it corresponds to Ensa, with 1 billion inhabited planets.
The terms "nebula" and "galaxy" seem destined to cause confusion. When man first started to catalog the fuzzy splotches he could see in the sky with the unaided eye and with crude telescopes, they were called "nebulae," or "clouds" in Latin. The Milky Way, on the other hand, was visually special and got the specific name "galaxy," from "milk" in Greek. (I am uncertain whether the Greeks may have called it this themselves.) These were simple observational facts, like "angina pectoris" starting out as a "pain in the chest." Like angina, the meanings attached to the words have evolved with man's growing information about the world around him.
Eventually, better telescopes disclosed that some of the "nebulae" were made of individual stars, while others could not be resolved into stars. The closest of the ones which seemed to be made of stars had a certain range of regular structure, ranging from the globular to the spiral, so it was assumed that all objects of these shapes in the sky were made up of many stars, whether the individual stars could be seen or not. Since the biggest and best known fuzzy splotch of stars already had the specific name "galaxy" attached to it, this name was taken as the generic name for all the fuzzy splotches which were either obviously made of stars, or matched one of the related globular-to-spiral shapes at least some of which were known to be made up of stars. These then became the galaxies, while the rest of the nebulae continued undifferentiated as "nebulae."
Hubble drew a very famous diagram classifying the regular galaxies into ten groups (regular = globular-to-spiral). On the basis of some clever matching of the red shift in stellar spectra to the luminosity of certain variable stars of supposedly standard brightness (the Cepheid variables) Hubble founded a school of thought in cosmology which dominates present-day astronomy. He announced that the galaxies (in general) were extragalactic (outside the Milky Way). Of course, he seems to have been generally correct. It appears, however, that not all of the "galaxies" were outside the local region of space. In particular, Hubble and his many followers systematically ignored the effects of the galactic (Milky Way) mass on the propagation of light, which was predictable from the general theory of relativity.
Recent discoveries of quasars and other unusual objects have raised serious questions about the overall applicability of Hubble's discoveries to understanding cosmological questions. These objects appear to be receding from us at velocities near that of light. This seems most improbable, and recent work is beginning to provide us the theoretical basis for understanding in part how the red shift arises from non-cosmological sources. The fact remains that most of the "spiral nebulae" identified by Hubble as extragalactic are so; however, those which lie near the Milky Way or within [it] may not all be extragalactic. The effect of the mass of the Milky Way is to impart a red shift to the observed light. This mimics the effect of a high velocity of recession of a galaxy at great distance.
There are other effects which confound our attempt to locate galaxies in outer space by use of spectroscopic observations.
As for any overlap between the superuniverses, it seems clear to me that none is intended. A zone of quiet space separates the superuniverses from the first outer space level, and I speculate that some vacant area exists between the superuniverses. On p. 167 we are told "practically all of the starry realms visible to the naked eye on Urantia belong to the seventh section of the grand universe..." Clearly there are some which do not, but not many. These exceptions probably include some galaxies in outer space. They may also include parts of the sixth and first superuniverses, but it would be hard to be sure. We would have to look for something curious about 90 degrees along the plane of the Milky Way in either direction from Saggitarius. I don't know what we might find. The other superuniverses may be too far away to see. (or they may not, of course.)

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Bill, please do not dismiss my discussion so offhandedly. You error. You are happy with a cursory reading and a happy dismissal. It's only about the product, sir. A science based product that has been a great blessing to me, personally.
It most certainly is not a pyramid scheme. It's a binary system. They are not even of the same nature.
The product is a nutritional food supplement, only two years old. My purpose is to build awareness of the product.
100 days age I was unable to buckle my seatbelt or get my wallet out of my pocket. This product has resolved that for me. In addition, my breathing has greatly improved, I have regained a measure of mental clarity and better sleep, higher energy level and a profound sense of well-being.
I have faced the argument you present and rather than be dismayed I feel like a friend that has something new to offer that actually works.

We are discussing science as a path to discovery in our Father. If you want to discuss the business aspect I'd be happy to, personally.

I can try to come to wherever you are or we could do this in private email. Either way, if at all, let's not discuss your opinions here, Bill.

This is one of those blessings that is transforming lives. Please read up on the product and I have faith it will help you live a better quality of life.


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Joer, I've read the material you suggested and seen the beautiful digital image. Pretty amazing stuff.
So, as a species, we may not even know where home is. Neat.
This World of the Cross we are blessed to live on is plum full of mysteries.
I image our exact positioning in the heavens has meaning and value that we are utterly uncapable of grasping as yet.
What thrilling questions we will leave the next generations to consider.


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Uncle Bill wrote:
Joer, I've read the material you suggested and seen the beautiful digital image. Pretty amazing stuff.
So, as a species, we may not even know where home is. Neat.
This World of the Cross we are blessed to live on is plum full of mysteries.
I image our exact positioning in the heavens has meaning and value that we are utterly uncapable of grasping as yet.
What thrilling questions we will leave the next generations to consider.


That's True Uncle Bill!

And now that we are understanding more and more the transient nature of our "scientific fact" it leaves us open to happily use the "scientific facts" as we know them today while exploring with new enthusiasm the new issue of emerging "scientific fact" that awaits us as our conceptual frames of reference evolve. It certainly is exciting.

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William Whitehead posted a link to this web page on another thread here. It looked pretty interesting.

http://www.ubfellowship.org/archive/newsletters/innerface/page12.html

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Great stuff JoeR, really makes my day to read about all the latest discoveries in the cosmos. I'm not a cosmologists so here's my contribution to the science topic. Specifically the conscious levels of mind. Sort of like inner space science.

From wiki;Description and explanation of the Akashic records

The Akasha is said to be the library of all events and responses concerning consciousness in all realities. Every lifeform therefore contributes and has access to the Akashic Records. It is asserted that to gain access into the Akashic Records, every individual human can become the physical medium, and various techniques and spiritual disciplines (e.g., yogic, pranayama, meditation, prayer, visualization) can be employed to quiet the mind, become a "witness", and achieve the focused, preconscious state necessary to access the Records.

While accessing the Akashic Records, both the events and responses are said to be perceived. This is analogous to having a meta-enhanced cinematic experience. When accessing the future, the events are known, but the responses are only probable. Based on an individual's responses in the past, the Akashic seer/reader can investigate probable future responses and give the highest future probability. A simple illustration of this might be witnessing several alternate endings to the main characters in a movie (e.g., Run, Lola, Run). At some point in the evolution of the Akashic reader, however, a state of unification and awareness can be achieved whereby even the future responses are known with absolute clarity instead of only as a probability.


...and observe from TUB;

P1008:2, 92:4.9 5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.


If there's anything scientific to all this maybe this is the thread to speak of it. If not then my apologies.


Peace.

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re: observe

from paper 112 pg 1228:

Quote:
There exists a great cosmic gulf between matter and thought, and this gulf is immeasurably greater between material mind and spiritual love. Consciousness, much less self-consciousness, cannot be explained by any theory of mechanistic electronic association or materialistic energy phenomena.

As mind pursues reality to its ultimate analysis, matter vanishes to the material senses but may still remain real to mind. When spiritual insight pursues that reality which remains after the disappearance of matter and pursues it to an ultimate analysis, it vanishes to mind, but the insight of spirit can still perceive cosmic realities and supreme values of a spiritual nature. Accordingly does science give way to philosophy, while philosophy must surrender to the conclusions inherent in genuine spiritual experience. Thinking surrenders to wisdom, and wisdom is lost in enlightened and reflective worship.

In science the human self observes the material world; philosophy is the observation of this observation of the material world; religion, true spiritual experience, is the experiential realization of the cosmic reality of the observation of the observation of all this relative synthesis of the energy materials of time and space. To build a philosophy of the universe on an exclusive materialism is to ignore the fact that all things material are initially conceived as real in the experience of human consciousness. The observer cannot be the thing observed; evaluation demands some degree of transcendence of the thing which is evaluated.

In time, thinking leads to wisdom and wisdom leads to worship; in eternity, worship leads to wisdom, and wisdom eventuates in the finality of thought.


If the Urantia Papers are a composite work of the contributions of many different personalities, maybe the Milky Way is a composite of many different smaller galaxies...and maybe someday science will understand that all we observe is an aspect of consciousness, but not necessarily personality.

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Here's a good example of the collective consciousness at work;

[url=http://urantiabook.org/archive/history/doc217.htm]A Bibliographic Essay on Some Human Sources
for Materials Used in The Urantia Book
[/url]
By Matthew Block
1994

From the "Book List";

Noble, Edmund, "Purposive Evolution: The Link Between Science and Religion" (New York: Henry Hold and Co., 1926).
Paper 42, "Energy -- Mind and Matter," section 11; Paper 116, "The Almighty Supreme," section 7. Nobels's theory of cosmic self- maintenance (the universe as purposive) is referred to in the UB on p. 482; his chapter, "Is the Universe an Organism?" (in which he gives a negative answer) seems to be responded to by the revelators on p. 1276-77, "The Living Organism of the Grand Universe."

Observe the response;

7. THE LIVING ORGANISM OF THE GRAND UNIVERSE
The grand universe is not only a material creation of physical grandeur, spirit sublimity, and intellectual magnitude, it is also a magnificent and responsive living organism. There is actual life pulsating throughout the mechanism of the vast creation of the vibrant cosmos. The physical reality of the universes is symbolic of the perceivable reality of the Almighty Supreme; and this material and living organism is penetrated by intelligence circuits, even as the human body is traversed by a network of neural sensation paths. This physical universe is permeated by energy lanes which effectively activate material creation, even as the human body is nourished and energized by the circulatory distribution of the assimilable energy products of nourishment. The vast universe is not without those co-ordinating centers of magnificent overcontrol which might be compared to the delicate chemical-control system of the human mechanism. But if you only knew something about the physique of a power center, we could, by analogy, tell you so much more about the physical universe.


I think we do, we just don't know we do.


Peace.

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Coyote and Randy good to see your posts. God Bless you guys. Man this discussion got heavy in a hurry! I like that. Heavy is good because you have to think a little to grasp what’s being said.

I was looking for a passage or passages in TUB Coyote, that talk about this record. And recording angels and the fact that everything we do is recorded even to the number of hairs on your head. As I believe that is added to the record that is often referred to here as the Akashic record.

You posted:
Quote:
At some point in the evolution of the Akashic reader, however, a state of unification and awareness can be achieved whereby even the future responses are known with absolute clarity instead of only as a probability.

And

P1008:2, 92:4.9 5….But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space.

Those two parts reminded me of the Finaliter embrace. That would seem to me to be the highest state of ” unification and awareness”, that one could achieve. And thus where the possibility “whereby even the future responses are known with absolute clarity instead of only as a probability,” would most likely occur.

BUT the idea of being able to predict the future,” Based on an individual's responses in the past” and the direction they seem to be headed in, one can predict “probable future responses and give the highest future probability.” This is something I strongly believe in and that I’ve mentioned before on one of these threads perhaps talking about revelations.

Randy, I don’t remember this passage in TUB and I can see why. It’s heavy. Thank you so much for posted it. I had to read it several times to get a handled on what it was saying. And I’m still not sure I get it good enough to say I understand it well. But I love it.

Quote:
To build a philosophy of the universe on an exclusive materialism is to ignore the fact that all things material are initially conceived as real in the experience of human consciousness. The observer cannot be the thing observed; evaluation demands some degree of transcendence of the thing which is evaluated.


This last part is very profound. But it doesn’t make much sense without reading and getting the whole passage.

One could argue, “Well, we can observe ourselves.” But the prior explanation forces us to see that’s the scientific way of seeing our selves. Philosophy is observing how we observe our selves scientifically and finally the spiritual experience is that of experiencing our God connected existence.

Quote:
and maybe someday science will understand that all we observe is an aspect of consciousness, but not necessarily personality.

True on the “aspect of consciousness” but perhaps science will know we are observing a partial reflection of God’s infinite personality.

God's peace be with you. :smile:

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Joer,
Thnk you so much for letting me know about this site:

http://www.urantiabook.org/index_science.htm

I am now convinced that many great minds have researched the Science contained within the Urantia Book and have come back with a resounding confrmation that we were indeed given a Divine Revelation.

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Greetings Jim from Suchitoto, El Salvador. We go tomorrow to work on another school for the kids here who are repatriating after the terrible war for human rights they here.

Thanks for the post. I think your right. I´m getting a sence the next great impetus in the circulation of TUB may come from the science community.

Gob Bless you brother and all on the site. :-)

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Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 10:33 am +0000
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The more homework I do concerning the science and cosmology presented in TUB, the more I'm reminded of the "letter" lie crusher once posted in the oops thread of the open discussion forum. Godspeed in your work in El Salvador, Joe!

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