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 Post subject: Iran as a Wayward Child
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Call me oblivious... but is all the fuss regarding Iran truly necessary?

Israel has how many nuclear devices which could cause untold catastrophe around the muslim world? They just recently bought two nuclear submarines from Germany just to prove they can still fight even if they get bombed.

Is Ahmedinejad really psychotic or does he know how to stir up insecurities? Okay... he is cooky, weird, foolish... but I call his bluff.

IMO... the iranians want international status akin to Pakistan in regards to nuclear weapons. I truly doubt they have real intentions of blasting the Jewish Nation. What do you think?

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I think Ahmedinejad is a certifiable maniac! His obsession with destroying Israel cannot be ignored! The Iraninan have been lying about building nuclear weapon capability for a long time, and they have recently retrofitted their missiles to be able to carry such a weapon.

So, what do you mean by calling their bluff, daring them to blow Israel out of existance??? They have already said if they could destroy Israel in a massive first strick, they would be willing to accept the 3 million or so lost Iranian lives that any retalitory force might still be able to launch. This is what maddness is made of. You seem to be suggesting Israel and the free world play Russian roulette with single shot pistol!

Bro Dave :roll: :arrow: :shock:

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I do not suggest playing russian roulette. I just think that perhaps that we should practice tolerance and let them build nuclear weapons as many other countries have. Do you understand that even putting sanctions on Iran is a double-edged sword? Europe went into panic mode last week when oil from Russia was suspended for one day. Iran is the fourth largest exporter of oil. As for Ahmadinejad... wishing is alot different than deliberate intention.

Again... I do not defend him... but I highly doubt he has real intentions of striking Israel.

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Hey Arie & Dave,

The extra and more ominous part to this......that's in the national news blogs like CNN, Fox ect....is that Iran is a supporter of terrorists entities.....so that if Iran could make nuclear weapons.....they just may sell or even give them to terrorist entities.

Israel isn't the only country that these guys like to hate.....we (the U.S.), seem to be on that list too. That's the nightmare scenario.

Back in the 80's or whenever it was, the law-abiding nations understood when Israel bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor(s).

I would be in favor of bombing Iran's if they continue to persue this obstinate and aggressive stance. That's all the world needs right now.....hothead religious fundamentalists with nukes. :roll:

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There is only one country to have irrefutably used nuclear weapons in our modern recorded history and that history records the use as having been justified.

But it is my assertion that nuclear weapons are nothing new and if we could ask them, both the orange and the green race would tell us what an incredibly stupid mistake nuclear weapons are. The sahara desert is a planetary wound which still hasn't healed even after all this time...

In my opinion its time for unilateral disarmament. Either nobody has them and our world survives or every country gets them [because to the animalistic way of thinking "might makes right"] and our entire world goes the way of the green and orange race in an effort to prove who has the bigger stick.

I pray that we learn from their mistake before its too late. Two wrongs don't make a right. Nuclear power in any form is a great wrong and a blatant corruption of Truth which if allowed to spiral out of control may very well render this a very dead planet.

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Last edited by rhermen on Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:29 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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I feel we should look upon nuclear weapons from a neutral viewpoint. There is nothing wrong with them in and of themselves. We may use nuclear bombs in constructive ways in the future. Remember that movie where they implanted nukes onto a meteor to blow it to pieces before it hit earth?

A knife as well can be used to as a weapon or it can be used to cut a steak.

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A common practice for middle eastern countries is to blame their Semitic cousins in Israel for their own failure to assimilate into modern society. Nearly every malfunction socially, politically and economically have been blamed on the Jews. History has shown that this diversionary practice has also been used in both Europe and America.

Moslem fundamentalists expend a lot of energy concocting conspiracy theories aimed at Israel, it satisfies a certain inferiority complex in the Arab national thought life.

It's hard to say if Iran would actually use such weapons against Israel but a unilateral attack would be suicidal. I say we should allow Iran to defeat itself. " Every sin contains within it the seeds of it's own destruction."
Colter O:)


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Yeah OK guys

I don't think the biggest threat here is that Iran would strike Israel. The threat is Iran supplying a terrorist entity with weapons.

These "terrorists entities" are wholly mobile. They don't have readily identifyable home countries that we can go and bomb in retaliation.

If Osama bin Ladin, as an example, gets a nuke and has some group within his influence explode it in New York City.......whose country or government or army do we bomb in retaliation?

Can we hunt down and jail or execute one single person named to be responsible for such an outrageous terroristic act? My that will be satisfying won't it?

Best here to seek not to allow such a rogue state from developing such weapons in the first place so they won't have them to give them to terrorists.


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Woody is right. The biggest threat is the transfer of nukes to terrorists. But to what degree will striking the known facilities delay the process if Bush decides to do that?

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Maybe the most productive thing we can do, is to make it clear that we in the civilized world, will not tolerate terrorists with nukes. If there is any possibility that Iran, a known active supporter of terrorism, is getting ready to share nukes with them, then that capability WILL be destroyed. Implicit in that, millions of innocent Iranians will also be destroyed. The "good" new in that, is that this country has many very educated folks, who do not like the crazy's who are running their government. This may be the wake-up call needed to get a changes in government we all would welcome. This is a solution we all could LIVE with! :smile:

Bro Dave

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The question is the capability of us dismantling their program with scattered and underground structures.

Sanctions will hurt everyone and invasion akin to Iraq is ridiculous.

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Hey Arie,

It requires a full scale nuclear reactor facility to produce enriched weapons-grade uranium/plutonium. You can't hide such a plant nor construct one underground. Their plants are already there and well known.

TNX Woody


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Just reading the new newsweek article on this topic... apparently there are quite a few components which they would most likely target. 1. three partially buried structures 2. new centrifuge buildings (recently covered with 10 to 20 feet of concrete and 75 feet of dirt) 3. Concrete mixing facility 4. administrative building 5. workers housing complex 6. original centrifuge plant 7. tunnel entrance

How in the world are they going to destroy the underground centrifuge buildings?

Okay... it will handicap them if they destroy almost everything else. It will push them back a good distance.

This image is a couple years old but it's still good for illustrations. The buildings with the top partially blue is the new centrifuge buildings which is supposedly undergound. The white complex below the circle is the administrative building. The five separate white buildings is the original centrifuge plant. And there are supposedly three partially buried structures in between the new and old centrifuge buildings. In the bottom right is the concrete mixing facility which doesn't really stand out. The tunnel entrance is located directly south of the new underground buildings which I don't think is in this picture. There is also the workers housing complex which you can't see south-west of the administrative building.

Image

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Last edited by Arie on Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:08 pm +0000, edited 3 times in total.

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a little off-the-subject When I was visiting in China in 1993, an Amer. news reporter was interviewing a high Chinese dignitary. The reporter remarked something like this, "Sir I understand you Chinese have a standing army of 1 million soldiers. Why do you need such a big army?"

"China is a big country. All of our 1 million soldiers are IN China. Where are YOURS??"

A heck of a question.......one with no forthcoming answer. As a Urantia person, I am blessed with being a citizen of the good ol' U.S. BUT the U.S. is far from being a 'model' of proper behavior.

I do believe it will become a model - perhaps in a hundred yrs or so.......

The hope is a World Government - one in which no superpower will dominate - where world sanity without one country's vested interests controls.


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 Post subject: Iran As A Wayward Child
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Hello Arie & All,

Never underestimate the current Iranian leaders to make a bold (and stupid) first strike (nuclear) against Israel and the U.S. If they don't already have a dirty bomb (small nuke) then they will have one before long and I think they will smuggle one into the U.S (if they haven't already) and use it against us.

Personally I believe that their goal is not only to wipe Israel off the face of the planet but to cripple us as well. Remember this is a combination of the worst sorts; a religious war, a political war, an economic war and a war of hatrid. Iran and Syria working together are the main reason we are having such a hard time getting Iraq settled down.

Even without firing a shot Iran is already putting the squeeze on the U.S. by beating the war drums and this is driving up oil prices already. It won't take much of this combined with the outrageous cost of the Iraq War to break this Nation finically eventually. :|

Iran is not worried about loosing the U.S. as an Oil customer, Russia would be more than glad to continue to work out more deals with them. China is the new emerging World Super Power and has a huge need for their Oil reserves.

I don't think for a minute that the U.S. will sit back and let Iran take on Israel. Nor do I believe that Israel will sit back and let anyone get away with threatening them with total destruction. My bet is we are headed for more bloodshed in the Middle East :cry:

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