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SEla_Kelly wrote:
fanofVan wrote:

NO...physical matter and systems are not and cannot have sovereignty. Planets are just dirt, rocks, minerals, etc. They have no life or being of their own. They are but vehicles for life. You do not know this? Same for stars and asteroids, etc.
Sovereignty is a function of personality leadership derived by the voluntary cooperation of other personalities within a specific set of those personalities in a hierarchical system of aggregational order/organization.


But if our world is constituted as a whole planet, then the First Source and Center could know, potentially the spirits (Life Carriers, Melchizedek, et c.), and the souls, that have ever serviced or transpired through its jurisdiction. If God the First Source and Center was prefragmented into the indwelling of Machiventa Melchizedek's mind (and then Jesus'), then such a Father Fragment not only represents the individual destiny of a person, but that is a personalised Thought Adjuster, the Urantian Adjuster, whose segmented destiny does not pertain to that of a human individual, but rather a planet who is home to all souls who had origination here. Such Fragment I feel, again, is capable of presiding over the course of history, of our world's future destiny, and though each of we has an individualised Adjuster that pertains to our own courses of post-ultimate destiny, we can learn to appreciate this world and that in the Unqualified Absolute which the Universal Father reserves for every individual.

Hm... Rocks do not have consciousness, but the potential for life was recognised by the administration of Satania, and long before that the First Source and Center might have known even greater things for the potential of our planet.

I realise how obsurd this come from the point of view that "Urantia is a person", "Urantia has a personality"; however, I again ask if Urantian Sovereignty were represented by Machiventa the vicegerent of Urantia, and if the First Source and Center has any ultimate potentials reserved or segmented (fragmented)within the future ultimate potentials of the universe for Urantia distinctly.

In a similar respect, what human indiivduals that you know express real sovereignty? Is there any man who willing to defend the abuses that the planet receives, who feels personally grieved or at least guilty for allowing natures abundance to be threatened? If a human individual who has gained actual sovereignty, and thus extends his own duties "as a shadow" to protect his world, the world from where he originates "Urantia is a great rock."


Yes indeed...absurd, even nutty. Disconnected from the UB by a million miles or so. A meaningless word jumble. More contradictions. Believe what you will...just don't think or claim this is related to the teachings.

Such claims...but no text support? Hmmm.....

We do not gain sovereignty. We are born with sovereign free will.

A most irrational and irrelevant post. Planetary Adjuster??!!


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"the Urantian Adjuster"


Are you saying that there is a general adjuster in the earth?

So can there be a general adjuster in the ovorton universe? (sarcasm / joke)


Last edited by zack on Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:39 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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No.. there is not such relationships.

Thanks for the edit....and humor Zack!!!!


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katroofjebus wrote:
Riktare wrote:
Quite frankly The Unqualified Absolute scares me. Plants and animals are representative of mind apart from personality. A non-teachable aspect of mind performance is there.


I'm a little confused. What's the connection of the Unqualified Absolute to plants and animals?


The connection is that both are active without personality. Both can be seen to be essentially mechanical in response and initiative.

0:11:4 (14.2) The Deity Absolute seems to be the all-powerful activator, while the Unqualified Absolute appears to be the all-efficient mechanizer of the supremely unified and ultimately co-ordinated universe of universes, even universes upon universes, made, making, and yet to be made.

When I say that there must be a will associated with their activities, it is not the same meaning of "will" that the revelators use when talking about personality. Probably a different word should be used but there is no perfect word in English I can think of that applies. It is akin to motivation or inclination but neither word fits because impetus or determination is essential to what I'm talking about.

If you decide to knock down the Yellowjacket's nest in the tree by your front door the Yellowjackets will be extremely determined to sting you to prevent their nest from being destroyed. That may be a mechanical response but there is a very strong impetus there. Apparently that impetus is derived from an evolutionary force that drives all creatures to survive and contribute to the furthering of evolution and even to contribute to the realization of The Almighty Supreme. I think The Unqualified Absolute works very similarly, though without being confined in any way by time or space.


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fanofVan wrote:
The Unqualified Absolute is a power and presence that is fully responsive to the Trinity and therefore may be certainly predicted to exhibit or reflect or be contained by the personality of The First Source and Center which is total benevolence.


I would question whether that is an accurate statement. Your excellent reference states that The Unqualified Absolute is conditioned by the Paradise Trinity but doesn't say that it is it fully responsive. It is likewise conditioned by many other things in the universes. It apparently owes no allegiance to the Trinity and cannot since it is not a person.

0:11.8 (14.6) The Unqualified Absolute is a positive universe overcontrol in infinity; this overcontrol is space-force unlimited but is definitely conditioned by the presence of life, mind, spirit, and personality, and is further conditioned by the will-reactions and purposeful mandates of the Paradise Trinity.

fanofVan wrote:
The mind ministry for unteachable mind is itself personal in source and in ministry and is not the Unqualified Absolute. Plants and animals and organisms and cells, etc. are not "representative of mind apart from personality". There is no such thing.


I believe you're being very legalistic here and do not state anything constructive. We all say things like "a cat's mind is not trainable" or "my mind can't picture such a thing". That mind is sponsored by an outside entity is immaterial for our discussion here and a distraction. If you later find a reason why that makes a difference to the discussion, you should bring it up then.

fanofVan wrote:
It is highly unlikely that any form of personal spiritual awakening - whether hindu and chakra based or of the Zen satori and nirvana form or any other form - contacts mindlessness of any aspect of Deity that is not personal and present in mind. I'd be very interested in some text that suggests that human superconscious makes contact beyond the Thought Adjuster - or needs to for spiritual awakening.

To transcend temporal reality and experience transcendent states of being and awareness may be an uncommon experience but should add true clarity and purpose and integrations of meaning and value to those who do have these experiences. And many claim such experience who have never had them but instead endured the extremes of mysticism, fasting, and hallucination by various methods or have suffered the product of subconscious invention and delusion and self manipulation. True awakening or satori or kundalini is an anchoring experience as well as a complete release of all attachments or anchoring...it is the essence and purity of paradox which is logical and integrates all aspects of what was formerly mysteriously disconnected.


I can agree that "true awakening or satori or kundalini is an anchoring experience". However that is only the very initial stage. The entire experience or transformation typically takes years or decades and can proceed very gradually or extremely rapidly. When it proceeds extremely rapidly very energetic forces are unleashed that transform the nervous system and consciousness in very major ways. That gurus, teachers and mystics do not talk about that illustrates that they have not themselves undergone such an enormously transformational process. It is clear that the force of evolution lies behind those transformations. I would recommend the book "Living with Kundalini" by Gopi Krishna to get an understanding of such an occurrence.


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I remain confused. This topic began on the issue of planetary sovereignty and other levels of sovereignty have naturally entered the conversation.

Now we focus on your yet to be defined fears about willful but mindless acts of the Unqualified Absolute who is without personality, as represented by yellowjackets. Please be more specific about your fear of the UA.

The UB says the Unqualified Absolute is benign, even positive, and conditioned by and responsive to the Trinity, and their will reactions and purposeful mandates.

You seem to be saying that there is will without mind or personality. And you seem to be expressing some form of fear about your belief that the Unqualified Absolute has such willfulness. Isn't will the expression of intent and intent of thought? And can you provide any examples of willful but mindless acts?

Why do you think me to be picking nits when I point out that the Infinite Spirit is the source of mind? There is always a personality connection to will and to mind and of mind to will as well...and to life itself. That life which does not have personality or teachable mind is still subject to both personality and mind connections at other than "self" levels. Or so I understand it. All the Absolutes are derivatives of personality, mind, and will and nothing at all in all the universe of universes exists or functions without the direct or indirect provisions of Deity, the Trinity, and the First Source and Center.

There are no rogue agents or potential outcomes unbeknownst to God regarding the Absolutes or any other aspect of reality. Or so we are taught. The universe is friendly...including the Absolutes and the Unqualified Absolute.

Please describe the nature of your fears.

As to spiritual awakening. Regardless of the methods employed and the experience achieved, the nervous system is simply physical and biological. As is the brain. It is the mind itself where enlightening takes place. And the soul is the repository and integrator of all such gains in spiritization.

There is no such thing as enlightenment or being enlightened. There is only enlightening...a process that never ends until we stop being experiential beings as experiential wisdom based on freewill choice is a never ending perfecting of our will alignment and our learning to choose the best choice in every situation, circumstance, and intersection of choice.

Jesus did not teach mysticism nor did he recommend we pursue any radical and exclusive forms of enlightening and soul building. He advises us to enjoy the material world and life and reality and learn to be functional and happy and expressive and to focus on serving others. So many mystics are so exclusively focused on themselves and the exclusions of reality-distractions. Very sad when life and family and interaction and beauty and goodness are sacrificed in the pursuit of truth. Perfecting requires balancing all aspects of reality for progress through the circles and fusion. I am no longer impressed by those who emphasize personal growth by isolation or extreme practices.

The UB certainly teaches us that every day people living every day lives of every day intellect and skill can spiritualize their minds and draw close to God and enjoy the fruits of the Spirit and eternal life....and may do so without anxiety or doubts or extreme practices or certain beliefs or knowledge. We have eternity for perfecting and the path to Paradise is not a race to run and nothing is gained by being anxious or urgent upon this journey of adventure!!

7. Mysticism, Ecstasy, and Inspiration

91:7.1 (1000.2) Mysticism, as the technique of the cultivation of the consciousness of the presence of God, is altogether praiseworthy, but when such practices lead to social isolation and culminate in religious fanaticism, they are all but reprehensible. Altogether too frequently that which the overwrought mystic evaluates as divine inspiration is the uprisings of his own deep mind. The contact of the mortal mind with its indwelling Adjuster, while often favored by devoted meditation, is more frequently facilitated by wholehearted and loving service in unselfish ministry to one’s fellow creatures.

91:7.2 (1000.3) The great religious teachers and the prophets of past ages were not extreme mystics. They were God-knowing men and women who best served their God by unselfish ministry to their fellow mortals. Jesus often took his apostles away by themselves for short periods to engage in meditation and prayer, but for the most part he kept them in service-contact with the multitudes. The soul of man requires spiritual exercise as well as spiritual nourishment.

91:7.3 (1000.4) Religious ecstasy is permissible when resulting from sane antecedents, but such experiences are more often the outgrowth of purely emotional influences than a manifestation of deep spiritual character. Religious persons must not regard every vivid psychologic presentiment and every intense emotional experience as a divine revelation or a spiritual communication. Genuine spiritual ecstasy is usually associated with great outward calmness and almost perfect emotional control. But true prophetic vision is a superpsychologic presentiment. Such visitations are not pseudo hallucinations, neither are they trancelike ecstasies.

91:7.4 (1000.5) The human mind may perform in response to so-called inspiration when it is sensitive either to the uprisings of the subconscious or to the stimulus of the superconscious. In either case it appears to the individual that such augmentations of the content of consciousness are more or less foreign. Unrestrained mystical enthusiasm and rampant religious ecstasy are not the credentials of inspiration, supposedly divine credentials.

91:7.5 (1000.6) The practical test of all these strange religious experiences of mysticism, ecstasy, and inspiration is to observe whether these phenomena cause an individual:

91:7.6 (1000.7) 1. To enjoy better and more complete physical health.
91:7.7 (1000.8) 2. To function more efficiently and practically in his mental life.
91:7.8 (1000.9) 3. More fully and joyfully to socialize his religious experience.
91:7.9 (1000.10) 4. More completely to spiritualize his day-by-day living while faithfully discharging the commonplace duties of routine mortal existence.
91:7.10 (1001.1) 5. To enhance his love for, and appreciation of, truth, beauty, and goodness.
91:7.11 (1001.2) 6. To conserve currently recognized social, moral, ethical, and spiritual values.
91:7.12 (1001.3) 7. To increase his spiritual insight—God-consciousness.

91:7.13 (1001.4) But prayer has no real association with these exceptional religious experiences. When prayer becomes overmuch aesthetic, when it consists almost exclusively in beautiful and blissful contemplation of paradisiacal divinity, it loses much of its socializing influence and tends toward mysticism and the isolation of its devotees. There is a certain danger associated with overmuch private praying which is corrected and prevented by group praying, community devotions.

1. True Religion

101:1.1 (1104.4) True religion is not a system of philosophic belief which can be reasoned out and substantiated by natural proofs, neither is it a fantastic and mystic experience of indescribable feelings of ecstasy which can be enjoyed only by the romantic devotees of mysticism. Religion is not the product of reason, but viewed from within, it is altogether reasonable. Religion is not derived from the logic of human philosophy, but as a mortal experience it is altogether logical. Religion is the experiencing of divinity in the consciousness of a moral being of evolutionary origin; it represents true experience with eternal realities in time, the realization of spiritual satisfactions while yet in the flesh.

101:1.2 (1104.5) The Thought Adjuster has no special mechanism through which to gain self-expression; there is no mystic religious faculty for the reception or expression of religious emotions. These experiences are made available through the naturally ordained mechanism of mortal mind. And therein lies one explanation of the Adjuster’s difficulty in engaging in direct communication with the material mind of its constant indwelling.

101:1.3 (1104.6) The divine spirit makes contact with mortal man, not by feelings or emotions, but in the realm of the highest and most spiritualized thinking. It is your thoughts, not your feelings, that lead you Godward. The divine nature may be perceived only with the eyes of the mind. But the mind that really discerns God, hears the indwelling Adjuster, is the pure mind. “Without holiness no man may see the Lord.” All such inner and spiritual communion is termed spiritual insight. Such religious experiences result from the impress made upon the mind of man by the combined operations of the Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth as they function amid and upon the ideas, ideals, insights, and spirit strivings of the evolving sons of God.

101:1.4 (1105.1) Religion lives and prospers, then, not by sight and feeling, but rather by faith and insight. It consists not in the discovery of new facts or in the finding of a unique experience, but rather in the discovery of new and spiritual meanings in facts already well known to mankind. The highest religious experience is not dependent on prior acts of belief, tradition, and authority; neither is religion the offspring of sublime feelings and purely mystical emotions. It is, rather, a profoundly deep and actual experience of spiritual communion with the spirit influences resident within the human mind, and as far as such an experience is definable in terms of psychology, it is simply the experience of experiencing the reality of believing in God as the reality of such a purely personal experience.

101:1.5 (1105.2) While religion is not the product of the rationalistic speculations of a material cosmology, it is, nonetheless, the creation of a wholly rational insight which originates in man’s mind-experience. Religion is born neither of mystic meditations nor of isolated contemplations, albeit it is ever more or less mysterious and always indefinable and inexplicable in terms of purely intellectual reason and philosophic logic. The germs of true religion originate in the domain of man’s moral consciousness, and they are revealed in the growth of man’s spiritual insight, that faculty of human personality which accrues as a consequence of the presence of the God-revealing Thought Adjuster in the God-hungry mortal mind.

I used to chase gurus and enlightenment and climbed the mystic mountains to visit the wise one's finger to the forehead....but not since finding the Revelation!

:D 8)

OM...…...

Are we still talking about Planetary Sovereignty??


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Riktare wrote:
The connection is that both are active without personality. Both can be seen to be essentially mechanical in response and initiative.

0:11:4 (14.2) The Deity Absolute seems to be the all-powerful activator, while the Unqualified Absolute appears to be the all-efficient mechanizer of the supremely unified and ultimately co-ordinated universe of universes, even universes upon universes, made, making, and yet to be made.

When I say that there must be a will associated with their activities, it is not the same meaning of "will" that the revelators use when talking about personality. Probably a different word should be used but there is no perfect word in English I can think of that applies. It is akin to motivation or inclination but neither word fits because impetus or determination is essential to what I'm talking about.


I'm drawn to the word "mechanizer". The Unqualified Absolute isn't a mechanism, it's a mechanizer, which means it is a controller. Is volition necessary for that? My inclination is that it has more to do with mind than volition. The Unqualified Absolute is essentially pre-spirit, pre-mind and pre-energy originating in the I AM. It is referred to as "static infinity" as opposed to the "dynamic infinity" of Deity Absolute which conditions it. All this is kept in balance by the Universal Absolute, the tension resolver between the two. What I have a hard time imagining is the interaction between static and dynamic infinity. I think dynamic infinity has volition and static infinity reacts, the results of the interaction are kept in balance by the Universal Absolute. But more to the point, we know that the Unqualified Absolute is conditioned by life. Plants and animals are forms of life that would condition the Unqualified Absolute, force it to react, which is then balanced by the Universal Absolute. I think the First Source and Center is the source of volition, not the Unqualified Absolute which is a reaction to the "elastic tension" coming from Paradise.

(6.1) 0:3.21 As a time-space creature would view the origin and differentiation of Reality, the eternal and infinite I AM achieved Deity liberation from the fetters of unqualified infinity through the exercise of inherent and eternal free will, and this divorcement from unqualified infinity produced the first absolute divinity-tension. This tension of infinity differential is resolved by the Universal Absolute, which functions to unify and co-ordinate the dynamic infinity of Total Deity and the static infinity of the Unqualified Absolute.

(7.3) 0:4.5 This is the primal concept of original reality: The Father initiates and maintains Reality. The primal differentials of reality are the deified and the undeified — the Deity Absolute and the Unqualified Absolute. The primal relationship is the tension between them. This Father-initiated divinity-tension is perfectly resolved by, and eternalizes as, the Universal Absolute.

(126.5) 11:8.9 Paradise is the absolute source and the eternal focal point of all energy-matter in the universe of universes. The Unqualified Absolute is the revealer, regulator, and repository of that which has Paradise as its source and origin. The universal presence of the Unqualified Absolute seems to be equivalent to the concept of a potential infinity of gravity extension, an elastic tension of Paradise presence. This concept aids us in grasping the fact that everything is drawn inward towards Paradise. The illustration is crude but nonetheless helpful. It also explains why gravity always acts preferentially in the plane perpendicular to the mass, a phenomenon indicative of the differential dimensions of Paradise and the surrounding creations.

Riktare wrote:
If you decide to knock down the Yellowjacket's nest in the tree by your front door the Yellowjackets will be extremely determined to sting you to prevent their nest from being destroyed. That may be a mechanical response but there is a very strong impetus there. Apparently that impetus is derived from an evolutionary force that drives all creatures to survive and contribute to the furthering of evolution and even to contribute to the realization of The Almighty Supreme. I think The Unqualified Absolute works very similarly, though without being confined in any way by time or space.


The strong impetus to survive comes from mind ministry, but it is also a feature of life itself, because life is a Paradise pattern which has paid all it's gravitational debt. Technically, it cannot "die" or end. Is the Unqualified Absolute alive? Is the Universal Absolute alive? When plants and animals die their life force continues as part of universal cosmic forces. I think that's possibly what they mean when they say the grand universe is a responsive living organism. Life is a force with inherent characteristics which include mobilization and transmutation of energy for ongoing life-perpetuation. Life is also endowed with adaptability, responsiveness, and an insatiable drive for perfection, which indicates its originating master Pattern.

(404.3) 36:6.5 The life bestowed upon plants and animals by the Life Carriers does not return to the Life Carriers upon the death of plant or animal. The departing life of such a living thing possesses neither identity nor personality; it does not individually survive death. During its existence and the time of its sojourn in the body of matter, it has undergone a change; it has undergone energy evolution and survives only as a part of the cosmic forces of the universe; it does not survive as individual life. The survival of mortal creatures is wholly predicated on the evolvement of an immortal soul within the mortal mind.

(457.4) 41:2.5 Life has inherent capacity for the mobilization and transmutation of universal energy.

(737.2) 65:6.2 There is original endowment of adaptation in living things and beings. In every living plant or animal cell, in every living organism — material or spiritual — there is an insatiable craving for the attainment of ever-increasing perfection of environmental adjustment, organismal adaptation, and augmented life realization. These interminable efforts of all living things evidence the existence within them of an innate striving for perfection.


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Really appreciate such clarification and illumination. I agree with source for volition as the source of all, The First Source and Center of all creation and all Divinity.

God is not only responsible for and responsive to all personality free will expressed volition of mind, but God is responsible for all other volitions in creation.


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Indeed, Zachary. That was a role once reserved for the Lanonandek Son who was to preside Urantia as Planetary Prince. Machiventa Melchizedek and Jesus of Nazareth both lived lives fully human, thereby assisting in the Supreme Being for the actuation and eventuation of the Chief Thought Adjuster, not only of Urantia but of all Nebadon. Such a personalised fragment of the first source and center, I believe can defend the planetary course of progress/destiny, if not actually represent the sovereignty of the planet Urantia to Urantians, as Urantian human individuals themselves strive for the life in the Supreme Being and the attainment of actual sovereignty. In the most basic terms, you have the relationship with the individualised Adjuster Fragment of the First Source and Center. However, another Adjuster Fragment once indwellt the mind of Machiventa Melchizedek, who is considered the Planetary Prince of Urantia. Machiventa Melchizedek represents the sovereignty of the human individual, even as the Thought Adjuster who once indwellt Him might represent the sovereignty of the grand universe, Nebadon, or Urantia. Exactly right, in my estimation. You have to think, as you gain knowledge and wisdom, that is leading towards your own self-directedness, your own sovereignty. But what good is that to have in the mind of your own soul, if you not contributing to the vitality of the planetary life, and the peacefulness of the culture you live. If you offer your service to the same spirit as Jesus called "Father", and I indicate who this may be, you can do it. The Chief Thought Adjuster accomodates for the maximum destiny of every individual who cross into our sphere, and for all souls who will come to inhabit the likeness of mortal flesh, just as the First Source and Center maintains the infinity of Deity Personality for all spirits who have found eternal life in Paradise. Again, I am not speaking to the living individuality of Urantia as a person, but the safeguarding of ascencion rights for all souls who originate at Urantia, "in the likeness of mortal flesh." Christ Michael bestowed himself on Urantia, and as the Master Son, He is able to protect the sovereignty of Urantia, however you might interpret that because Michael still represents the Supreme Being.

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56:10.13 The recognition of true relations implies a mind competent to discriminate between truth and error. The bestowal Spirit of Truth which invests the human minds of Urantia is unerringly responsive to truth - the living spirit relationship of all things and all beings as they are co-ordinated in the eternal ascent Godward.
& there you can consider the relationship between the First Source and Center and Paradise (a relationship between a being & a thing), just as the Chief Thought Adjuster of Urantia has a similar relationship with Urantia, or Urantia's course of progress.

105:2.8 (4 of 7, the I AM as Sevenfold). The Infinite Upholder. I AM self-associative. This is the primordial association of the statics and potentials of reality. In this relationship, all qualifieds and unqualifieds are compensated. This phase of the I AM is best understood as the Universal Absolute - the unifier of the Deity and the Unqualified Absolutes.
^ Through this self-associative relationship, the Universal Father is able to safeguard the individuated destiny of every universe creature, including all those of Urantian origination.

Consider the Triodity relationship between the First Source and Center, the Chief Thought Adjuster who once inhabited the mind of Machiventa Melchizedek, and the individuated Father Fragment whom is theorized to indwell as a prepersonalised fragment of your own mind. There you have your relationship between a being and a thing: first, the life that the Father has with you in Paradise, second the life the Christ Michael shares with you through the grace, beauty and grandeur of Salvington, and finally the relationship between the Thought Adjuster who is said to indwell your mind, and the thing that is the human tabernacle. But each of these things: Paradise, Salvington, the human tabernacle, are such great works of art, belonging to the universal father, as bearing the potential for life, and how such life may be regarded in the eventuational prepatterns.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Machiventa Melchizedek and Jesus of Nazareth both lived lives fully human, thereby assisting in the Supreme Being for the actuation and eventuation of the Chief Thought Adjuster, not only of Urantia but of all Nebadon.


I agree. The Personalized Adjuster who once indwelt Machiventa and Joshua ben Joseph is the Chief of all the Thought Adjusters of Nebadon, "chief of his kind". He also collaborated with the Midwayers in writing Part IV of the Revelation.

(1200.4) 109:6.4 The activities of Adjusters in your local universe are directed by the Personalized Adjuster of Michael of Nebadon, that very Monitor who guided him step by step when he lived his human life in the flesh of Joshua ben Joseph. Faithful to his trust was this extraordinary Adjuster, and wisely did this valiant Monitor direct the human nature, ever guiding the mortal mind of the Paradise Son in the choosing of the path of the Father’s perfect will. This Adjuster had previously served with Machiventa Melchizedek in the days of Abraham and had engaged in tremendous exploits both previous to this indwelling and between these bestowal experiences.

(1511.2) 136:2.3 As John laid his hands upon Jesus to baptize him, the indwelling Adjuster took final leave of the perfected human soul of Joshua ben Joseph. And in a few moments this divine entity returned from Divinington as a Personalized Adjuster and chief of his kind throughout the entire local universe of Nebadon.

(1846.5) 168:2.6 As Lazarus came out of the tomb, the Personalized Adjuster of Jesus, now chief of his kind in this local universe, gave command to the former Adjuster of Lazarus, now in waiting, to resume abode in the mind and soul of the resurrected man.

(1341.2) 121:8.1 As far as possible, consistent with our mandate, we have endeavored to utilize and to some extent co-ordinate the existing records having to do with the life of Jesus on Urantia. Although we have enjoyed access to the lost record of the Apostle Andrew and have benefited from the collaboration of a vast host of celestial beings who were on earth during the times of Michael’s bestowal (notably his now Personalized Adjuster), it has been our purpose also to make use of the so-called Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

(1844.1) 168:1.2 It is difficult to explain to human minds just why Jesus wept. While we have access to the registration of the combined human emotions and divine thoughts, as of record in the mind of the Personalized Adjuster, we are not altogether certain about the real cause of these emotional manifestations.


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katroofjebus wrote:
I'm drawn to the word "mechanizer". The Unqualified Absolute isn't a mechanism, it's a mechanizer, which means it is a controller. Is volition necessary for that? My inclination is that it has more to do with mind than volition. The Unqualified Absolute is essentially pre-spirit, pre-mind and pre-energy originating in the I AM. It is referred to as "static infinity" as opposed to the "dynamic infinity" of Deity Absolute which conditions it.


And this would be the segway now into considering the relationship between the Unqualified Absolute and the Supreme Mind which you asked about to begin with. I suspect we might start to see things that have a bearing on our planet's (or any other planet's) sovereignty.

katroofjebus wrote:
I think the First Source and Center is the source of volition, not the Unqualified Absolute which is a reaction to the "elastic tension" coming from Paradise.


Then maybe that "elastic tension" from Paradise in some ways imprints an echo of volition on non-personal or pre-personal entitities such as non-personal life forms and the Unqualified Absolute. We are told that the Unqualified Absolute can be unpredictable or sponsor unpredictability. It seems consistent to consider that one of the tasks of God the Absolute is to weave meaning and direction from the initially (in a sense) partly out of control or unpredictability of the Unqualified Absolute.

0:2.18 (4.12) 7. God the Absolute—the experientializing God of transcended superpersonal values and divinity meanings, now existential as the Deity Absolute. This is the third level of unifying Deity expression and expansion. On this supercreative level, Deity experiences exhaustion of personalizable potential, encounters completion of divinity, and undergoes depletion of capacity for self-revelation to successive and progressive levels of other-personalization. Deity now encounters, impinges upon, and experiences identity with, the Unqualified Absolute.


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Regarding trans-personal transformation, I have to say that it is decidedly not spiritual. It is rather an upgrade to the cerebral-nervous system likely occurring in the borderland between the physical and morontia energy systems. It is quite independent of spiritual development and experience. During much of the transformation most people find it is quite a trial and an extreme challenge to cope with that evokes not a little bit of anxiety and fear. It seems to be a phenomenon choosing you rather than the other way around. That is one reason to regard it as a factor of evolution pressure. There are plenty of stories published on the internet to be read if you wish to know more.


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It appears we have now pivoted and transitioned away from Hindu spiritualism to late 20th century psychology? These two terms are related in some ways but kundalini spiritual awakening or Zen satori/nirvana or soul emergence or temporal transcendence is not the same thing as the psychological theory of trans-personal transformation....or my research would not confirm that anyway.

I'd really like this linked to the topic somehow. Isn't our possession of epochal revelation and our own personal spiritual transformation and transcendence from one nature to our spiritual nature and the expanded objective perspective of the entirety of universe reality the goal of both the religious/spiritual disciplines listed above and also replace and relieve the need for the humanistic psychological studies and practices designed to treat subjective egoism a much better option with much better results? Why would any student of the UB embrace Zen or Hinduism or modern psychiatry in the pursuit of expanded consciousness or awareness and objective perspective of universe reality? An odd recommendation IMO.

I'd really like to understand your fear related to the Unqualified Absolute too.

And how that relates to the topic of planetary sovereignty.

We are told that rebellion itself has been limited to the System and smaller jurisdictions of sovereignty only and that the sovereignty of those systems and planets was certainly preserved and re-established in good order in good time by a very righteous and merciful process guided by great wisdom and experience.

The sovereignty of Urantia for its evolutionary destiny based on true liberty and the individual destiny potential for each person born on Urantia has been preserved and strengthened by the Most Highs and the Creator/Master Son and all the legions of those who serve this world and provide and protect its sovereignty.

Do you have doubts as to this fact and reality???


Last edited by fanofVan on Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:10 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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But the Title of Planetary Prince is superceded by the once supervisory relationship that the Life Carriers had throughout Urantian Evolution. "Carrying that Life" that holds the potential in the minds of men, the sons of man, to become like the universal father. And also these relationships of the supervisory of the 12 Melchizedeks, and the Most High Observer and his agents. How do you describe such super-visory level of administrative governance. Well, they are well-trusted and wise beings, perhaps not "all wise", but yes trusted on a rational level, so as to preserve, maintain, and gratify the works of mankind that bring progress to society, that increase the totals for increase in the soils, the amelioration of horticultural processes within capital plants.

I think you are right, Bradley. "the legions of those who serve this world and provide and protect its sovereignty." It is not limited to the Chief Adjuster of Nebadon, or Machiventa Melchizedek or the 12 Melchizedek Supervisors, but according to the loyalty and willingness of sentient individuals: archangels and men. People who seek entrance into the reserve corps of destiny, and able to receive assistence from seraphim hailing from the 12 departmental branches of their service-administration of seraphic planetary government. I believe that you do not need the omniscience of the First Source and Center, but you can have loyalty to Jesus and then faith in the individualised Adjuster Fragment, in terms of sincerely striving towards Urantia's progress, and in the wisdom of this goal, so too do we each have that opportunity to uphold (sanctify and encourage the attainment of) the destiny of the children you would raise.

But I am still rather uncertain, does Urantia have an identity or a personality that has been overseen by such Chief Adjuster, beyond the summation of all sentient beings who chanced to become involved with the order and affairs of our world/system? Okay so you have identify how the rulers, who have such actual sovereignty on an individual level, able to act in accordance with seraphic planetary government and Urantian Sovereignty. However, the identity of a world, as in the final stage of life and light, can be considered as a home, a place we shall always remember throughout the ascencion journeys of our individual souls; but in the final analysis you are saying that this is just a physical thing? The grand universe is likened unto a living mechanism, a whole organism of itself, and as in the Supreme Being? But what are the coordinative tasks required in the specific Urantian Course of History/Progress that should enable the Supreme Being to attain His Own Actuated Sovereignty, not only for Urantians but for all experiencially-originated souls of the grand universe?

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to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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