Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000 Posts: 4634
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alwilliams767 wrote:
Apparently in the matters of the FER, squabbling is currently the norm, at least in this forum, to engage in much squabbling, much to the dismay of those who are watching on the sidelines.
What is sight it must be, as the causal FER-curious type scans the posts here, to see such weighty matters involving the Universe of Universes, human survival and the life and teachings of an actual Son of God, degenerate pretty much always nowadays, into such petty arguments.
Al - I hate to start a squabble - - but I got to wondering where you've been the past 8 years that I've been here with all the historical record of discourse and discord I remember over the years. So many topics started by UB haters and those who come here to convert and save us heathens and the one who called himself Caligastia and remember Louis, who over 7 years was booted off 4 times with 4 different names for being so contentious and personal and mean spirited (MannyC, JohhnyBones, toto, loucol - all the same poster!) and there were those here to argue, quite vociferously for reincarnation and pet heaven and alien abductions and rebel angels raping humans and celestial coverups for heavenly corruption and the ongoing rebellion and end of times and armaggedon to come??
Surely you remember? I perused your posting history, older and longer than my own by 4 years, to see if it were more peaceful and brotherly between 2008 and 2012 and you know what?? Not even close. You have given a good accord of yourself in objecting to falsehood and guiding discussion into truth. Indeed I have researched and read many topics from the very first days of TruthBook and I have not yet found this golden age you and Maryjo and others here seem to remember or aspire to. It simply has never been true here at TruthBook. I'm not even sure its a good or legitimate ideal.
This is not a social tea club. It's a classroom. We are here to learn a specific content of a specific book. That book has enemies. Many who attend here are intent and persistent in their efforts to disrupt the classroom and the study of the UB....contention is their very purpose and motive and agenda. Disruption is their cause and purpose! Maryjo says we should presume good intentions by all who attend here. Really??!! The record does not bear out such an expectation as realistic. She says we are not to distrust motives...not even after motive and agenda is clearly demonstrated over dozens or hundreds of posts by those who persistently contradict and misrepresent the UB? Not even then, eh?
The forum rules do not say we are to assume the best in people. The UB says we should look for the best in people, true. And how long do we assume the best when evidence of ulterior motive is demonstrated? Are we not also to be as wise as serpents as well as innocent as doves? A difficult ideal itself. Dovishness is not by itself any ideal at all so far as I can tell.
Many who attend here come for validation of preconceptions which are not to be found in the UB and who do not respond well when that reality is pointed out...some students cannot shake their prejudice and love of their own beliefs. Such ones attend here now and seemingly will always be among us...unsuccessfully seeking proofs and confirmations and twisting and tormenting the text in contortionist acrobatics to conform the teachings to prior beliefs.
True, some may and do, and I certainly have also, gone too far. It is unfortunate. But we are human and students and tadpoles after all. Is it right and just and helpful to judge us by ideals that have never been reached here before? Those who avoid conflict merely to avoid conflict do not reflect ANY UB centered ideal. Ideals, limits, boundaries, time outs, mod interventions...all are helpful in staying focused and moving forward in reading, study, discovery, discussion, and understanding of the Urantia Papers. So is disagreement, conflict, debate, and perseverance in the face of error, falsehood, misrepresentation, ignorance, and prejudice.
I noticed Al, in reviewing your own posting record here, that you have not been so shy yourself this past decade+ in engaging in arguments with others in many topics and discussions. Here's one of my favorites I found from 2 years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5371
I think truth will always need champions who do not shrink aside in the face of conflict but will stand their ground and make sure that this Revelation is heard with its own words and voice and not allowed to be trifled with and contradicted by false claims and trivialized by those who disbelieve it and disagree with it and hope to cast dispersion and doubts upon it in this classroom of students - especially those on the sidelines and those new to the text!! Shall we allow those who do not understand or appreciate the UB to just say whatever they will while we silently provide our tacit acquiescense and agreement by our agreeable silence?
I hope not.
Sometimes the best someone has is not yet as good as we hope or idealize...what then did Jesus do? Rebuke and criticize and demean and remove those who disappoint us from the group? If we all do the best we can and all need to improve, then some occasional bad behavior by humans around here should maybe not be such a big deal?? It is not the end of the world. It presents opportunity for improvement, reversion humor, reconciliation, and regrouping and rebooting. We all take some things too seriously I think. Sideline readers here will perhaps discover how human are the students of the UB after all.
These comments are not offered as any type of excuse for my own inadequacies and bad behaviors and lack of courtesy and displays of belligerence and other failures of decorum I have committed. I can, from time to time, lose my humor and patience, and give expression to frustration in ways which are wrong and embarrassing. Such failures will not deter me from study, sharing, attending, and participating here. I learn. I have much still to learn.
I noticed something else reviewing your posts Al....we seldom disagree on much!!!
Your friend and in good humor,
Bradly
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