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I am starting a fresh new thread to post this topic. It hones in on TA severing ties with its host while the latter is still alive, and explains the condition why it does so. The other thread has been beaten to the ground, so this reference and explanation will just get lost in the different debates raging on in it.

A person can lose their TA providing it is unfused during the life of the mortal host. Here is the reference:

Quote:
112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.

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Last edited by brooklyn_born on Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:34 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
I am starting a fresh new thread to post this topic. It hones in on TA severing ties with its host while the latter is still alive, and explains the condition why it does so. The other thread has be beaten to the ground, so this reference and explanation will just get lost in the different debates raging on in it.

A person can lose their TA providing it is unfused during the life of the mortal host. Here is the reference:

Quote:
112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.


But they cannot survive this soul death. And neither can they receive another TA....or repent. This is a final choice and irrevocable.


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fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
I am starting a fresh new thread to post this topic. It hones in on TA severing ties with its host while the latter is still alive, and explains the condition why it does so. The other thread has be beaten to the ground, so this reference and explanation will just get lost in the different debates raging on in it.

A person can lose their TA providing it is unfused during the life of the mortal host. Here is the reference:

Quote:
112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.


But they cannot survive this soul death. And neither can they receive another TA....or repent. This is a final choice and irrevocable.


First you claimed it could not be done (lost of a Thought Adjuster while alive.) Now it appears you no longer argue that position but instead move your goal post some other place to continue arguing. In any event, it says, "finally rejected survival." This is a person that does not desire faith and made a conscious decision to reject it always.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
I am starting a fresh new thread to post this topic. It hones in on TA severing ties with its host while the latter is still alive, and explains the condition why it does so. The other thread has be beaten to the ground, so this reference and explanation will just get lost in the different debates raging on in it.

A person can lose their TA providing it is unfused during the life of the mortal host. Here is the reference:

Quote:
112:3.2 (1229.9) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.


Bradly replies: "But they cannot survive this soul death. And neither can they receive another TA....or repent. This is a final choice and irrevocable."

First you claimed it could not be done (lost of a Thought Adjuster while alive.) Now it appears you no longer argue that position but instead move your goal post some other place to continue arguing. In any event, it says, "finally rejected survival." This is a person that does not desire faith and made a conscious decision to reject it always.


Right...they are dead souls...non-surviving and unredeemable...the end of mercy credits. Kapoot. They cannot lose their TA and maintain their soul in this way. It is irreversible indeed. Not at all what occurred with the Prince's staff or during the sleeping slumber or any of the temporary detachments described in the UB. Once the soul is dead and mercy credits exhausted there are no further TA endowment opportunities and no chance whatsoever of redemption.


Last edited by fanofVan on Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:43 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Bradly you claimed it could not be done. Do you still hold to that position?


fanofVan wrote:
Right...they are dead souls...non-surviving and unredeemable...the end of mercy credits. Kapoot. They cannot lose their TA and maintain their soul in this way.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Bradly you claimed it could not be done. Do you still hold to that position?


fanofVan wrote:
Right...they are dead souls...non-surviving and unredeemable...the end of mercy credits. Kapoot. They cannot lose their TA and maintain their soul in this way.



I did NOT say it could not be done...I said it was and would be highly unusual and difficult during a brief material life to kill one's soul and commit self erasure/suicide and that Catholic mores and social crimes were irrelevant measurements of that potential.


Last edited by fanofVan on Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:52 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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So, let's resume the conversation.

Here is another way in which the TA can detach from a living person. IF the TA is a self-acting TA:

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109:2.6 (1196.8 ) 5. At some time, during human sleep, has been temporarily detached from the mind of mortal incarceration to perform some exploit of liaison, contact, reregistration, or other extrahuman service associated with the spiritual administration of the world of assignment.


But note, the detachment is temporary. In soul death, the detachment is permanent/ irrevocable. In the self-acting adjuster, the detachment is temporary for the purpose of the self-acting adjuster to conduct its own necessary business while the human is asleep.

What you claimed, on the other thread, is that a TA can and does detach at the moment a person becomes "unspiritual" or "a rapist or murderer". And stays detached UNTIL that person somehow "normalizes" (you've never explained how this happens) and repents and the TA re-attaches itself.

There is no text in UB supporting that scenario. Nor is there text that says a TA *first* arrives in a human after they have raped and murdered and then "repented". The UB tells us the TA arrives upon the FIRST moral decision. Can you give us a scenario where someone over the age of 6 has NEVER made a SINGLE moral decision?


Last edited by Agon D. Onter on Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:06 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Agon D. Onter wrote:
In soul death, the detachment is permanent/ irrevocable.


That's because the Thought Adjusters indwell the soul. If the soul is dead there's no place to dwell.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
katroofjebus wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
In soul death, the detachment is permanent/ irrevocable.


That's because the Thought Adjusters indwell the soul. If the soul is dead there's no place to dwell.


Uh yep!


and yet the person is still alive, living his or her life without an indwelling fragment of Father. What a conundrum!

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Why is that a conundrum, BB?


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katroofjebus wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
In soul death, the detachment is permanent/ irrevocable.


That's because the Thought Adjusters indwell the soul. If the soul is dead there's no place to dwell.


Not true. The TA and Mind in union engender a soul. Where is TA residing before the creation of the soul? SUPER MIND.

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Agon D. Onter wrote:
Why is that a conundrum, BB?


Because a few hours ago, you said it was not possible! :badgrin:

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Not true. Show me.


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Here is what I said on the other thread about soul death:

Agon D. Onter wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
How does someone lose their TA?


Bradly, My interpretation of this verse of UB is that it IS possible for a living human to be abandoned by their TA. What I DO NOT think is possible, is for that person to get their TA back, which is something BB has claimed on this thread. That is definitely not correct.

Quote:
“1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co–ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster–abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.


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