Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:15 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 179 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 937
Location: Brooklyn NY
I saw a debate between posters about free will. I'd like to open up a discussion specifically on it. I think we have free will in evolutionary worlds, but I also think as we move from the evolutionary realms to the morontial and spiritual, we begin to lose our ability to exercise free will, or, at least, it appears so. Perhaps it is the mechanism built into the spiritual worlds, as our mind encircuits into mind circuits outside the local universe. Maybe, as we ascend, a requirement to enter the higher worlds is to align one's will with the will of the celestial Fathers of those worlds. Could this be interpreted as losing free will or willfully losing ones ability to exercise will, so to speak? I mean think about it. Why has there never been a rebellion in the higher worlds? I suspect it has to do with the absence of free will.

Admittedly I do not recall what the papers tell us about free will at the high ends of creation. If anyone recalls, by all means post the UB scriptures.

_________________
BB, the Urantian Gnostic606


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 772
I don't think it's because of an absence of free will but rather a stronger attunement to the Father's will. It is written that the proper attitude is "It is my will that your will be done." This puts human will first in the line-up.

I think it's critical to remember that the goal of every being in the universe is to become more Godlike, each in their own realm and to the extent of their capabilities. Such a desire would always manifest itself as preferentially choosing the Father's will, but the keyword there is choosing. The choice has to be made to do that which puts individual free will in a position of sovereignty over the Father's will. His will must be chosen otherwise it is not free, and certainly not a reaction of love of the Creator coming from his creature. The Father never coerces his children.

(22.5) 1.1.2  The Universal Father never imposes any form of arbitrary recognition, formal worship, or slavish service upon the intelligent will creatures of the universes. The evolutionary inhabitants of the worlds of time and space must of themselves — in their own hearts — recognize, love, and voluntarily worship him. The Creator refuses to coerce or compel the submission of the spiritual free wills of his material creatures. The affectionate dedication of the human will to the doing of the Father’s will is man’s choicest gift to God; in fact, such a consecration of creature will constitutes man’s only possible gift of true value to the Paradise Father. In God, man lives, moves, and has his being; there is nothing which man can give to God except this choosing to abide by the Father’s will, and such decisions, effected by the intelligent will creatures of the universes, constitute the reality of that true worship which is so satisfying to the love-dominated nature of the Creator Father.

Here is a definition of free will:

(1431.5) 130:2.10  It was on this same day that we first heard that momentous truth which, stated in modern terms, would signify: “Will is that manifestation of the human mind which enables the subjective consciousness to express itself objectively and to experience the phenomenon of aspiring to be Godlike.” And it is in this same sense that every reflective and spiritually minded human being can become creative.

Free will is required to become "Godlike", which in the end, is a creative adventure. And isn't that what the Supreme is all about?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 937
Location: Brooklyn NY
I considered your argument as well. But I found it problematic. Here is why. Attunement to the Father's will actually is yielding to the Father's personality gravity. Do you agree with this? I will continue to present my thought once I get an answer from you.


katroofjebus wrote:
I don't think it's because of an absence of free will but rather a stronger attunement to the Father's will. It is written that the proper attitude is "It is my will that your will be done." This puts human will first in the line-up.

I think it's critical to remember that the goal of every being in the universe is to become more Godlike, each in their own realm and to the extent of their capabilities. Such a desire would always manifest itself as preferentially choosing the Father's will, but the keyword there is choosing. The choice has to be made to do that which puts individual free will in a position of sovereignty over the Father's will. His will must be chosen otherwise it is not free, and certainly not a reaction of love of the Creator coming from his creature. The Father never coerces his children.

(22.5) 1.1.2  The Universal Father never imposes any form of arbitrary recognition, formal worship, or slavish service upon the intelligent will creatures of the universes. The evolutionary inhabitants of the worlds of time and space must of themselves — in their own hearts — recognize, love, and voluntarily worship him. The Creator refuses to coerce or compel the submission of the spiritual free wills of his material creatures. The affectionate dedication of the human will to the doing of the Father’s will is man’s choicest gift to God; in fact, such a consecration of creature will constitutes man’s only possible gift of true value to the Paradise Father. In God, man lives, moves, and has his being; there is nothing which man can give to God except this choosing to abide by the Father’s will, and such decisions, effected by the intelligent will creatures of the universes, constitute the reality of that true worship which is so satisfying to the love-dominated nature of the Creator Father.

Here is a definition of free will:

(1431.5) 130:2.10  It was on this same day that we first heard that momentous truth which, stated in modern terms, would signify: “Will is that manifestation of the human mind which enables the subjective consciousness to express itself objectively and to experience the phenomenon of aspiring to be Godlike.” And it is in this same sense that every reflective and spiritually minded human being can become creative.

Free will is required to become "Godlike", which in the end, is a creative adventure. And isn't that what the Supreme is all about?

_________________
BB, the Urantian Gnostic606


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 772
brooklyn_born wrote:
I considered your argument as well. But I found it problematic. Here is why. Attunement to the Father's will actually is yielding to the Father's personality gravity. Do you agree with this? I will continue to present my thought once I get an answer from you.


No, I don't agree but I understand why you would think "It is my will that your will be done" is problematic. I also don't agree that attunement to the Father's personality circuit is yielding to gravity without maintaining sovereignty of power. I don't think it's like jumping off a building and yielding to linear gravity. Not at all, and I think you would agree to that. There is a reference that might address this:

(31:2) 1:7.2 Man does not achieve union with God as a drop of water might find unity with the ocean. Man attains divine union by progressive reciprocal spiritual communion, by personality intercourse with the personal God, by increasingly attaining the divine nature through wholehearted and intelligent conformity to the divine will. Such a sublime relationship can exist only between personalities.

I think the imagery of a drop of water being drawn to the ocean is similar to what you're describing as yielding to the gravity of the Father's personality. If that were the case, there would be no relationship between the two personalities, Creator and creature. There would only be one massive force pulling all personalities unwittingly toward it, like the effect linear gravity has had on my yielding, sagging skin.

The personality circuit involves a relationship, a give and take described as personality intercourse. It's a creative type of gravity which encompasses the creativity of all personalities who have been given the birth right to create. We are all sons of the Father and have inherited that ability, and the personality circuit is the arena in which the relationship occurs, personality-to-personality. But until we actually meet him that way, our contactual relationship exists only in the soul with the Thought Adjuster, or Father fragment (see the reference below). The Father wants us close to him in a sharing kind of way, not a controlling way. What good would it be for the Father to have his children join him like a drop of water gets lost in the ocean? Personalities are all unique and are meant to remain unique, even when they approach and meet the Father face-to-face on Paradise. Part of their uniqueness is how they utilize their free will to express themselves and that is part of the emerging Supreme.

(25:6) 1:3.6 In the universes God the Father is, in potential, the overcontroller of matter, mind, and spirit. Only by means of his far-flung personality circuit does God deal directly with the personalities of his vast creation of will creatures, but he is contactable (outside of Paradise) only in the presences of his fragmented entities, the will of God abroad in the universes. This Paradise spirit that indwells the minds of the mortals of time and there fosters the evolution of the immortal soul of the surviving creature is of the nature and divinity of the Universal Father. But the minds of such evolutionary creatures originate in the local universes and must gain divine perfection by achieving those experiential transformations of spiritual attainment which are the inevitable result of a creature's choosing to do the will of the Father in heaven.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 937
Location: Brooklyn NY
Those are good verses and they do portray exactly what you argue. So I concede those verses say what you claim. HOWEVER... There are other celestial authors of the epochal revelation who state a different point of view, so this topic is not cut and dry or simple. Take a look:

Quote:
7:3.2 (84.2) The spiritual-gravity pull of the Eternal Son constitutes the inherent secret of the Paradise ascension of surviving human souls. All genuine spirit values and all bona fide spiritualized individuals are held within the unfailing grasp of the spiritual gravity of the Eternal Son. The mortal mind, for example, initiates its career as a material mechanism and is eventually mustered into the Corps of the Finality as a well-nigh perfected spirit existence, becoming progressively less subject to material gravity and correspondingly more responsive to the inward pulling urge of spirit gravity during this entire experience. The spirit-gravity circuit literally pulls the soul of man Paradiseward.


Father gravity works similarly but I am in a rush to post this response so am using the Eternal Son's gravity narrative as it will suffice. Notice it says the spirit-gravity circuit literally PULLS soul of man to Paradise. My argument is we exercise our will to do the will of the Father. And we do so as mortals. As immortals, we continue to exercise our will and, meanwhile, the gravity pull of the Father progressively gets stronger, just like the Son's, as stated in the above verse. The higher you go in dimension, the stronger it gets, and his gravity is met by a corresponding decrease in exercising free will.

Once the soul attains paradise there is no need to maintain one's free will to follow God; you have become one with him just like we become one with TA in fusion. His gravity pull is sufficient enough to hold that soul in orbit for eternity. This is why I said as one ascends will power proportionally decreases. The spiritual system is built this way.

I think free will is exchanged for divine will. Take a read of the following scripture and tell me what you think:


Quote:
91:9.5 (1002.10) 4. You must make a wholehearted choice of the divine will. You must obliterate the dead center of indecision.



katroofjebus wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
I considered your argument as well. But I found it problematic. Here is why. Attunement to the Father's will actually is yielding to the Father's personality gravity. Do you agree with this? I will continue to present my thought once I get an answer from you.


No, I don't agree but I understand why you would think "It is my will that your will be done" is problematic. I also don't agree that attunement to the Father's personality circuit is yielding to gravity without maintaining sovereignty of power. I don't think it's like jumping off a building and yielding to linear gravity. Not at all, and I think you would agree to that. There is a reference that might address this:

(31:2) 1:7.2 Man does not achieve union with God as a drop of water might find unity with the ocean. Man attains divine union by progressive reciprocal spiritual communion, by personality intercourse with the personal God, by increasingly attaining the divine nature through wholehearted and intelligent conformity to the divine will. Such a sublime relationship can exist only between personalities.

I think the imagery of a drop of water being drawn to the ocean is similar to what you're describing as yielding to the gravity of the Father's personality. If that were the case, there would be no relationship between the two personalities, Creator and creature. There would only be one massive force pulling all personalities unwittingly toward it, like the effect linear gravity has had on my yielding, sagging skin.

The personality circuit involves a relationship, a give and take described as personality intercourse. It's a creative type of gravity which encompasses the creativity of all personalities who have been given the birth right to create. We are all sons of the Father and have inherited that ability, and the personality circuit is the arena in which the relationship occurs, personality-to-personality. But until we actually meet him that way, our contactual relationship exists only in the soul with the Thought Adjuster, or Father fragment (see the reference below). The Father wants us close to him in a sharing kind of way, not a controlling way. What good would it be for the Father to have his children join him like a drop of water gets lost in the ocean? Personalities are all unique and are meant to remain unique, even when they approach and meet the Father face-to-face on Paradise. Part of their uniqueness is how they utilize their free will to express themselves and that is part of the emerging Supreme.

(25:6) 1:3.6 In the universes God the Father is, in potential, the overcontroller of matter, mind, and spirit. Only by means of his far-flung personality circuit does God deal directly with the personalities of his vast creation of will creatures, but he is contactable (outside of Paradise) only in the presences of his fragmented entities, the will of God abroad in the universes. This Paradise spirit that indwells the minds of the mortals of time and there fosters the evolution of the immortal soul of the surviving creature is of the nature and divinity of the Universal Father. But the minds of such evolutionary creatures originate in the local universes and must gain divine perfection by achieving those experiential transformations of spiritual attainment which are the inevitable result of a creature's choosing to do the will of the Father in heaven.

_________________
BB, the Urantian Gnostic606


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 am +0000
Posts: 931
Like katroofjebus I can see why you might think that. But the essential issue, I believe, is that if you do not to some extent choose the divine will you will not develop the character and personality prerequisites upon which will and creativity actually starts to function. Such choosing is not the relinguishing of our own will but rather an agreement to cooperate with the adjuster and other spiritual influences.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 937
Location: Brooklyn NY
Riktare wrote:
Like katroofjebus I can see why you might think that. But the essential issue, I believe, is that if you do not to some extent choose the divine will you will not develop the character and personality prerequisites upon which will and creativity actually starts to function. Such choosing is not the relinguishing of our own will but rather an agreement to cooperate with the adjuster and other spiritual influences.


The below reference may explain it better.

Quote:
1:1.2 (22.5) ... The Creator refuses to coerce or compel the submission of the spiritual free wills of his material creatures. The affectionate dedication of the human will to the doing of the Father’s will is man’s choicest gift to God; in fact, such a consecration of creature will constitutes man’s only possible gift of true value to the Paradise Father. In God, man lives, moves, and has his being; there is nothing which man can give to God except this choosing to abide by the Father’s will, and such decisions, effected by the intelligent will creatures of the universes, constitute the reality of that true worship which is so satisfying to the love dominated nature of the Creator Father.


We have free will as mortals but as we ascend and approach Paradise, exercising free will decreases to give way to God expressing his will in our lives. In the reference I furnished, we're told the greatest gift to God is to submit our will to his. What does it mean to submit one's will to another's?

_________________
BB, the Urantian Gnostic606


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 989
Location: Nanticoke NY
Dear brooklyn, in my opinion "free will" is something that human understanding of the actual will of God manifest in the universe. As universe creatures, man should learn to gain as much wisdom, with the proper effort towards maturity, compassion unto the goals and nature of others, and this leads to the waxing of the inner spirit, spiritual growth. The morontia spirit, since He pursuant of Paradise, the center of universe existences, must gain as much wisdom as possible before entering into the potential spiritual identity. He must prove able to discern the will of God, supposively increasingly revealed by a fragment of the first source and center, but also learn to love or try his best attempt in its application.

This tiny aspect of life (discernment and application of God's will or moral imperative) on Urantia, becomes magnified and amplified in the hereafter, especially after the cessation of the initial vehicle or tabernacle in which the soul finds its life. The freedoms you may or may not have comes from the experiencial proofs of your existences now. The basis of the Mystery Monitor's manipulation of mind values, is the theory that the First Source and Center is doing so in order that your soul may eventually gain full expression of his true personality. They treat you, not as you are, but as you may will become. If we will create society where the status of children is finalitor, you can see that unconsciously all humans have the potential, if guidance at earliest age possible under ripe conditions, to naturally do what they will love most, which is actually to do the will of God as a unique Deity-expression of the grand universe.

If lifetime spent with experiences of wanttonness or pleasure, limited that the human focuses on self-preservation, you can wonder if on personal values, you have enough to pursuit of the center of the universe, or "to find the universal father." Rather, a concerted effort in helping family equitably achieve the same goal, is more in line of what Jesus taught us, and knowing him to be the vicegerent "Lord of our fathers" in evolutionary religion (as Michael), we see in the personal experiences of Jesus, "to be about his father's business", was not the life of merely the hedonistic pursuit, but a life of great loyalty-service to his family and his father's & mother's nation. If you live as Jesus lived, well-versed, well-skilled, and well-travelled, you will be like the kind who accelerates through the morontia-studies universes, because you have "much at your own disposal", whereby to render gifts such as you build them a bench for instance. The combined passion towards others with the understanding of the nature of the individual, something that humans incorporate into their own ethics if not lifestyles. Maybe we do not know the nature of other individuals the way that Christ does, but at least we might share in the need for a well-developed personality over the course of a lifetime. Enoch, as the Son of Man, is a mere faded memory in the minds of man, yet his archetype was offered to modern consideration, held as the basis for adult or manhood pursuits, where everything you can know or do is tempered by wisdom, of which the highest measure is offered to human individuals, because Jesus wrought those developments in the Supreme Being, and this is represented by the Thought Adjuster who once indwellt Machiventa Melchizedek and after Jesus, and is now known as the Chief of Thought Adjusters for Urantia.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 989
Location: Nanticoke NY
What matters is that my sins and the fact of Default and rebellion may weight greatly against me as a human individual, nevertheless I may spend the remainder of my days in pursuant of that trust which may be deemed true in my personal relationship with the one who is the first source and center. Children born into an era of revelatory religion need not face such hardships: I can deal with this now so that others will receive freedom status in the ages of life and light. The Chief Thought Adjuster of Urantia is supposively the representative of the First Source and Center, who may rule on behalf of both the Supreme Being and Michael the Master of Nebadon, where I take my petitions as a human individual towards the betterment of mankind and the means to repay from Adamic Default. This service is not measured in the way I may convince others, but rather the way that I may act as a father, or a foster, who nurtures and enlightens the minds of other children, sons of man, to show them the work of the father. What you underestimate, maybe, still, is that to do the will of God as in the moral imperative, is really the greatest pleasure and true satisfaction of the human individual: Sophocles Antigone "I know that I please where I must please the most." I know that I am satisfied when I feel that I am doing the work of the first source and center, after the end of each day. I know that my service is true if it is rendered both of this world and of Paradise.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 937
Location: Brooklyn NY
Agreed!

SEla_Kelly wrote:
Dear brooklyn, in my opinion "free will" is something that human understanding of the actual will of God manifest in the universe. As universe creatures, man should learn to gain as much wisdom, with the proper effort towards maturity, compassion unto the goals and nature of others, and this leads to the waxing of the inner spirit, spiritual growth. The morontia spirit, since He pursuant of Paradise, the center of universe existences, must gain as much wisdom as possible before entering into the potential spiritual identity. He must prove able to discern the will of God, supposively increasingly revealed by a fragment of the first source and center, but also learn to love or try his best attempt in its application.

This tiny aspect of life (discernment and application of God's will or moral imperative) on Urantia, becomes magnified and amplified in the hereafter, especially after the cessation of the initial vehicle or tabernacle in which the soul finds its life. The freedoms you may or may not have comes from the experiencial proofs of your existences now. The basis of the Mystery Monitor's manipulation of mind values, is the theory that the First Source and Center is doing so in order that your soul may eventually gain full expression of his true personality. They treat you, not as you are, but as you may will become. If we will create society where the status of children is finalitor, you can see that unconsciously all humans have the potential, if guidance at earliest age possible under ripe conditions, to naturally do what they will love most, which is actually to do the will of God as a unique Deity-expression of the grand universe.

If lifetime spent with experiences of wanttonness or pleasure, limited that the human focuses on self-preservation, you can wonder if on personal values, you have enough to pursuit of the center of the universe, or "to find the universal father." Rather, a concerted effort in helping family equitably achieve the same goal, is more in line of what Jesus taught us, and knowing him to be the vicegerent "Lord of our fathers" in evolutionary religion (as Michael), we see in the personal experiences of Jesus, "to be about his father's business", was not the life of merely the hedonistic pursuit, but a life of great loyalty-service to his family and his father's & mother's nation. If you live as Jesus lived, well-versed, well-skilled, and well-travelled, you will be like the kind who accelerates through the morontia-studies universes, because you have "much at your own disposal", whereby to render gifts such as you build them a bench for instance. The combined passion towards others with the understanding of the nature of the individual, something that humans incorporate into their own ethics if not lifestyles. Maybe we do not know the nature of other individuals the way that Christ does, but at least we might share in the need for a well-developed personality over the course of a lifetime. Enoch, as the Son of Man, is a mere faded memory in the minds of man, yet his archetype was offered to modern consideration, held as the basis for adult or manhood pursuits, where everything you can know or do is tempered by wisdom, of which the highest measure is offered to human individuals, because Jesus wrought those developments in the Supreme Being, and this is represented by the Thought Adjuster who once indwellt Machiventa Melchizedek and after Jesus, and is now known as the Chief of Thought Adjusters for Urantia.

_________________
BB, the Urantian Gnostic606


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:21 am +0000
Posts: 951
Quote:
I think free will is exchanged for divine will.


there is a partnership between human will and gods will...more to come yet available now. and we don't lose anything in partnership with Everything in the infinite journey of both unity and diversity.

well unless losing the various constraints placed on human will on this planet and ultimately losing the constraints of time and space is to be considered a loss but it's not.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 am +0000
Posts: 931
Quote:
1:1.2 (22.5) ... The Creator refuses to coerce or compel the submission of the spiritual free wills of his material creatures. The affectionate dedication of the human will to the doing of the Father’s will is man’s choicest gift to God; in fact, such a consecration of creature will constitutes man’s only possible gift of true value to the Paradise Father. In God, man lives, moves, and has his being; there is nothing which man can give to God except this choosing to abide by the Father’s will, and such decisions, effected by the intelligent will creatures of the universes, constitute the reality of that true worship which is so satisfying to the love dominated nature of the Creator Father.


Like a number of other recent threads, we're running into human language limitations and conceptual deficits of people at the time of revelation. There are subtle but important conceptual differences that often escape us in the use of our language that exist because we generally are not accustomed to thinking in very, very precise terms. As fine as the post you just agreed with is, none of those very, very precise distinctions were present in that post.

To help the focus here, first of all we should recognize the opening statement quoted above is describing what The Creator does not do. He does not require the "submission" of "spiritual free will". What man can (and perhaps ought to) do is to "consecrate" one's will or "abide" by God's will. If you have read TUB closely and considered carefully, then you know God's will is not at all like man's. His is infinite and transcendent. "Abiding" means active cooperation in the realm of the soul and spirit. It cannot be limited to a man-made, man-conceived concept and therefore cannot and does not replace man's own will in the realm of Earthly matters.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 937
Location: Brooklyn NY
Riktare wrote:
To help the focus here, first of all we should recognize the opening statement quoted above is describing what The Creator does not do. He does not require the "submission" of "spiritual free will".


That is absolutely not what it says. It says he "refuses to coerce or compel the submission...". However, he most certainly requires submission, albeit, freely given. I think the issue here is your reading comprehension; I am offering a constructive criticism. If it comes across insulting, I apologize.

_________________
BB, the Urantian Gnostic606


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:11 pm +0000
Posts: 772
brooklyn_born wrote:
My argument is we exercise our will to do the will of the Father. And we do so as mortals. As immortals, we continue to exercise our will and, meanwhile, the gravity pull of the Father progressively gets stronger, just like the Son's, as stated in the above verse. The higher you go in dimension, the stronger it gets, and his gravity is met by a corresponding decrease in exercising free will.


Firstly, there's this reference to the fact that even at very high levels, free will is free:

(81.5) 7:0.5 The Son is not, however, personally responsible for the conduct of all spirit personalities. The will of the personal creature is relatively free and hence determines the actions of such volitional beings. Therefore the freewill spirit world is not always truly representative of the character of the Eternal Son, even as nature on Urantia is not truly revelatory of the perfection and immutability of Paradise and Deity. But no matter what may characterize the freewill action of man or angel, the Son’s eternal grasp of the universal gravity control of all spirit realities continues as absolute.

Secondly, the personality circuit is not a mindless magnet. It is under the complete control of the Universal Father's free will to do whatever he pleases with.

(104.2) 9:6.4 The operation of personality gravity is always a volitional act of the Universal Father.

Thirdly, the higher we ascend the more liberty we have in exercising our free will. And it is this fact which places limits on all free will functioning below as explained in this reference:

(1303.3) 118.9.2  Mechanisms produced by higher minds function to liberate their creative sources but to some degree unvaryingly limit the action of all subordinate intelligences. To the creatures of the universes this limitation becomes apparent as the mechanism of the universes. Man does not have unfettered free will; there are limits to his range of choice, but within the radius of this choice his will is relatively sovereign.

And lastly, the more one does the Father's will, the more freedom one has. So the higher we ascend the more freedom of volition we have. Reference:

(1460.3) 132:3.10   Universe progress is characterized by increasing personality freedom because it is associated with the progressive attainment of higher and higher levels of self-understanding and consequent voluntary self-restraint. The attainment of perfection of spiritual self-restraint equals completeness of universe freedom and personal liberty.

(2078.2) 195:6.16   Freedom or initiative in any realm of existence is directly proportional to the degree of spiritual influence and cosmic-mind control; that is, in human experience, the degree of the actuality of doing “the Father’s will.” And so, when you once start out to find God, that is the conclusive proof that God has already found you.

brooklyn_born wrote:
Once the soul attains paradise there is no need to maintain one's free will to follow God; you have become one with him just like we become one with TA in fusion. His gravity pull is sufficient enough to hold that soul in orbit for eternity. This is why I said as one ascends will power proportionally decreases. The spiritual system is built this way.


And the spiritual system is also built to return finaliters to the universes of time and space where their free-will functions with greater earned freedom.

(345.10) 31:0.10 During the present universe age the finaliters return to serve in the universes of time. They are assigned to labor successively in the different superuniverses and never in their native superuniverses until after they have served in all the other six supercreations. Thus may they acquire the sevenfold concept of the Supreme Being.

brooklyn_born wrote:
I think free will is exchanged for divine will. Take a read of the following scripture and tell me what you think:
Quote:
91:9.5 (1002.10) 4. You must make a wholehearted choice of the divine will. You must obliterate the dead center of indecision.


I don't think it's an exchange or swap, its an evolution, the evolution of dominance. One must learn what the divine will is and then bring it to fruit out here in the experiential worlds of time and space. One must discover, recognize and identify with the will of the Father then act upon it. It's this transfer of identity to the divine will which makes us more divine, or Deity-like. Divinity is that quality of character which man potentially acquires for himself in his search for Deity, and he does this by actually doing the Father's will. Doing the Father's will requires choosing, and choosing requires free will.

(64.4) 5:2.1 The physical presence of the Infinite is the reality of the material universe. The mind presence of Deity must be determined by the depth of individual intellectual experience and by the evolutionary personality level. The spiritual presence of Divinity must of necessity be differential in the universe. It is determined by the spiritual capacity of receptivity and by the degree of the consecration of the creature’s will to the doing of the divine will.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:21 am +0000
Posts: 951
Quote:
5. The Consecration of Choice

111:5.1 (1221.2) The doing of the will of God is nothing more or less than an exhibition of creature willingness to share the inner life with God—with the very God who has made such a creature life of inner meaning-value possible. Sharing is Godlike—divine. God shares all with the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit, while they, in turn, share all things with the divine Sons and spirit Daughters of the universes.

111:5.2 (1221.3) The imitation of God is the key to perfection; the doing of his will is the secret of survival and of perfection in survival.

111:5.3 (1221.4) Mortals live in God, and so God has willed to live in mortals. As men trust themselves to him, so has he—and first—trusted a part of himself to be with men; has consented to live in men and to indwell men subject to the human will.

111:5.4 (1221.5) Peace in this life, survival in death, perfection in the next life, service in eternity—all these are achieved (in spirit) now when the creature personality consents—chooses—to subject the creature will to the Father’s will. And already has the Father chosen to make a fragment of himself subject to the will of the creature personality.

111:5.5 (1221.6) Such a creature choice is not a surrender of will. It is a consecration of will, an expansion of will, a glorification of will, a perfecting of will; and such choosing raises the creature will from the level of temporal significance to that higher estate wherein the personality of the creature son communes with the personality of the spirit Father.

111:5.6 (1221.7) This choosing of the Father’s will is the spiritual finding of the spirit Father by mortal man, even though an age must pass before the creature son may actually stand in the factual presence of God on Paradise. This choosing does not so much consist in the negation of creature will—“Not my will but yours be done”—as it consists in the creature’s positive affirmation: “It is my will that your will be done.” And if this choice is made, sooner or later will the God-choosing son find inner union (fusion) with the indwelling God fragment, while this same perfecting son will find supreme personality satisfaction in the worship communion of the personality of man and the personality of his Maker, two personalities whose creative attributes have eternally joined in self-willed mutuality of expression—the birth of another eternal partnership of the will of man and the will of God.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 179 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: nnunn


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group