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Ok; the question in this topic is not "are Adam and Eve co-dependents" but rather:

Do the Material Son & Daughter (i.e.: the original Adam & Eve), need to cooperate with each other in order to express personality?

Note: I am not referring to Adam & Eve of Urantia, who are ascenders of fusion potential, and are members of the council of 24 at Jerusem. I am referring to the original Adam and Eve, who maintain this unbrokened divinity expression.




no sophist wrote:
Perhaps you could start another thread regarding your interest in the genetic makeup of Adam and Eve? I think there is still a lot to discuss about the topic that this thread is about.

There maybe is some questions about the genetics of the children of Adam and Eve who intermarried with Urantians, but I believe that Adam and Eve are the original beings that the Creator Son Michael shaped. They never defaulted, so I was just wanting to know more about the way they cooperate on their homeworld, how they must inevitably depend on each other for "the mutual upbuilding of the home". Therefore, the genetics of Adam and Eve are indescribable.

This topic is not so much about genetics, as it is the need for man and woman to cooperate with each other, in order to gain the full personality expression. I am sorry because I just need to identify the example of the pattern of cooperation, mutual support, in healthy marriage relationship because this ideal is difficult to find in the world that I live. What is the difference between the innate trust of Adam for Eve (and the trust of Christian or Muslim marriage partnerships), and how might this trust be experiencially gained via friendship/experience, you know between a man and a woman.

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Relationships are relationships. The same difficulties and joys occur in human relations between man and man, woman and man, parent and child, neighbors, boss and employee etc. How do we create and maintain trust in any of our relationships? Number one, of course, is to be trustworthy. Love, faith and service also play their parts in the mosaic of our relationships.

None of this is easy for material beings on a troubled material planet. All we can do is our best. If one wishes to gain friends, one must show themself to be friendly (I believe there us a UB quote to that effect).

I advise against comparing characteristics of celestial beings with human nature. There is no comparison. Athough I understand and relate to the desire to strive for that ideal.


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
This topic is not so much about genetics, as it is the need for man and woman to cooperate with each other, in order to gain the full personality expression.


What do you mean by "full personality expression"?


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Stephen - to whom are you referring as "the original Adam and Eve"?

Do you know how many "original" such couples are created by the Michaels in each local universe and how many "home worlds" for those that there are?

So you find healthy relationships and homes "difficult to find"? Is that among all 7 billion of us on Urantia? Or just the few you know of?

And what, if you please, have Adam and Eve to do with Christian and Muslim marriages compared or contrasted to all others?

What is an "unbrokened divinity expression"? And what is a broken divinity expression?

Anything in Papers 82-84 you want to discuss?

8)


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When our Eve defaulted, Adam had the option of going on alone. So, no they don't HAVE to be together to function as personalities, but Adam didn't relish working 100,000 years without his mate.


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I don't think the Father takes much notice of gender. At least the Father fragments don't even consider it when volunteering to indwell the mind of a personality. Not all created personalities in the universe are sex-creatures, so getting along with other persons can't be based solely on gender. Teamwork is the lesson everyone needs to learn, and although understanding the unique characteristics of each gender promotes getting along, it is not the most important element in any given relationship.


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There's this:

...The Material Sons and Daughters always serve together. It is the essence of their service at all times and in all places never to be separated. They are designed to work in pairs; seldom do they function alone.... 74:0.1 (828.1)

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Aren't the Material Sons and Daughters much like the angels who generally serve in pairs of polarized opposites? Since there are no other creatures like the Material Sons and Daughters, I would think their options for pairing are limited to their own kind. There are very few beings who are asked to serve in a solitary manner, such as the Solitary Messengers, and maybe the Inspired Trinity Spirits too. Not even the Father fragments serve in a wholly solitary manner.

It makes sense that humans on a sex planet would also be ideally paired as opposites. Those who, for whatever reason, cannot accomplish this while in the flesh must atone for their lack of such experience in the next life by associating with the Material Sons and Daughters. It seems that pairing is a vital universe experience. The question of this topic might well be, "What is the value of pairing, especially since it is not necessarily a permanent arrangement?" Or, "Why is the experience of advantageous sex relations essential?" References:

(286.4) 26:1.16 Supernaphim are limited in “spirit polarity” regarding only one phase of action, that with the Universal Father. They can work singly except when directly employing the exclusive circuits of the Father. When they are in power reception on the Father’s direct ministry, supernaphim must voluntarily associate in pairs to be able to function. Seconaphim are likewise limited and in addition must work in pairs in order to synchronize with the circuits of the Eternal Son. Seraphim can work singly as discrete and localized personalities, but they are able to encircuit only when polarized as liaison pairs. When such spirit beings are associated as pairs, the one is spoken of as complemental to the other. Complemental relationships may be transient; they are not necessarily of a permanent nature.

(256.7) 23:1.5 Though denominated Solitary Messengers, they are not lonesome spirits, for they truly like to work alone. They are the only beings in all creation who can and do enjoy a solitary existence, albeit they equally enjoy association with the very few orders of universe intelligence with whom they can fraternize.

(76.5) 6:4.5 In his contact with personality, the Father acts in the personality circuit. In his personal and detectable contact with spiritual creation, he appears in the fragments of the totality of his Deity, and these Father fragments have a solitary, unique, and exclusive function wherever and whenever they appear in the universes. In all such situations the spirit of the Son is co-ordinate with the spiritual function of the fragmented presence of the Universal Father.

(516.1) 45:6.3 On the seven mansion worlds ascending mortals are afforded ample opportunities for compensating any and all experiential deprivations suffered on their worlds of origin, whether due to inheritance, environment, or unfortunate premature termination of the career in the flesh. This is in every sense true except in the mortal sex life and its attendant adjustments. Thousands of mortals reach the mansion worlds without having benefited particularly from the disciplines derived from fairly average sex relations on their native spheres. The mansion world experience can provide little opportunity for compensating these very personal deprivations. Sex experience in a physical sense is past for these ascenders, but in close association with the Material Sons and Daughters, both individually and as members of their families, these sex-deficient mortals are enabled to compensate the social, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual aspects of their deficiency. Thus are all those humans whom circumstances or bad judgment deprived of the benefits of advantageous sex association on the evolutionary worlds, here on the system capitals afforded full opportunity to acquire these essential mortal experiences in close and loving association with the supernal Adamic sex creatures of permanent residence on the system capitals.


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But why Adam choose against Solo-King role without Eve? Rick Warren? Because the thought of living without her is unimaginable in my opinion.




Adam and Eve' very nature is copacetic with the angelic administration. Adam and Eve, not only like angel, but these actually command and are assisted by angel. The question is do Adam and Eve need each other in order to attain full personality expresson. Agon is correct that I do not if I can even consider myself as a man, or as one worthy of being accorded trust. But look if you can admit that maybe they really do need to cooperate, they need to depend on each other on Edentia or in the Garden or in their environment, that essentially such mutual support was innate for them. However such mutual support and trust is difficult to negotiate between families in actual human experience when it comes to children seeking partnerships.

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Ok after some thought maybe I have come up with some explanation for katroofjebus' comment. the difference between gender in the Material Son and Daughter, compared with the qualities of masculine and feminine for angels. Adam and Eve depend not only on each other, but must cooperate with their own biological children and seraphim in order to attain full personality expression. But in this sense, the couple would be considered as a joint administrator, for the most part, of the world they inhabit.


So angels are the creation by the Divine Minister of the Infinite Spirit, but Adam and Eve are the creation by the Creator Son of the Eternal Mother-Son. I think differentiation of gender is especially important in the original man and woman.

the Creator Mother-Son possessed personality attributes which are fully expressed through the marriage and joint creation of Adam and Eve.

Why does the Creator Mother-Son choose to express His Personality through these two genders of material parents? What does the eternal relationship of Adam and Eve express about the Eternal Mother-Son's attitude towards the Universal Father?

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And then finally, if I may leave further discussion to other more senior members of this group.

That in the seventh bestowal of Michael as Jesus the son of Joseph and Mary, Michael was able to restore the full expression of the original relationship, within the full pattern of personality of Adam & Eve, so that the father of any human individual, would be able to provide the same love that Michael provides to both Adam or Eve. Since Michael is the Creator Parent of both Adam & Eve, and that the original Adam & Eve should well-recognise this, why not also introduce the prospect, that any human individual may share the same relationship as Adam or Eve innately experiences.

This would be introspective of the home life of the original Adam and Eve, what we know of their teachings. How are Adam & Eve the bringers of Michael's love to seraphim, and even their own chldren.

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fanofVan wrote:
Stephen - to whom are you referring as "the original Adam and Eve"?

Do you know how many "original" such couples are created by the Michaels in each local universe and how many "home worlds" for those that there are?

So you find healthy relationships and homes "difficult to find"? Is that among all 7 billion of us on Urantia? Or just the few you know of?

And what, if you please, have Adam and Eve to do with Christian and Muslim marriages compared or contrasted to all others?

What is an "unbrokened divinity expression"? And what is a broken divinity expression?

Anything in Papers 82-84 you want to discuss?

8)


I wonder how many times I will need to post my questions to receive answers? :roll:


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
And then finally, if I may leave further discussion to other more senior members of this group.

That in the seventh bestowal of Michael as Jesus the son of Joseph and Mary, Michael was able to restore the full expression of the original relationship, within the full pattern of personality of Adam & Eve, so that the father of any human individual, would be able to provide the same love that Michael provides to both Adam or Eve. Since Michael is the Creator Parent of both Adam & Eve, and that the original Adam & Eve should well-recognise this, why not also introduce the prospect, that any human individual may share the same relationship as Adam or Eve innately experiences.

This would be introspective of the home life of the original Adam and Eve, what we know of their teachings. How are Adam & Eve the bringers of Michael's love to seraphim, and even their own chldren.


Michael did not "restore" the full expression of the original relationship whatever you might mean by that?? But Michael did express and live the full expression of his own personal relationship with the Father as an example to his universe.

Michael's expression had nothing at all to do with the "full pattern of personality of Adam & Eve", whatever you might mean by that...still waiting for answers to that question asked twice earlier.

What are you trying to say about personality Stephen? What's a full and partial pattern of personality. Do you believe personality can be partial or incomplete or not replete or dysfunctional or inadequate???

Again you say "original Adam and Eve"....who are they? Where are they? How many of those are there? Do you know? Do you wish to know? What if there is no singular pair of originals Stephen? How would that change your declarations here?

Why do you refuse to post text from the UB???????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:-s :cry:


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
the Creator Mother-Son possessed personality attributes which are fully expressed through the marriage and joint creation of Adam and Eve.


Material Sons and Daughters are created beings, completely separate from their Creator, yet like any other offspring, inherit certain character traits from their Creator. Since our original Material Son and Daughter had only one parent, Michael of Nebadon, chances are that some of his character traits were inherited by the original pair, and all subsequent generations of Material Sons and Daughters.

But as I'm sure you know, all of them have their very own unique, distinct personality. Another phrase for "personality attributes" is "character traits". Each individual has the personal responsibility to utilize their exclusive and unique personality pattern to develop their inherited attributes to their fullest, in harmony with universe reality. Experience provides the opportunities for character development for all creatures including Material Sons and Daughters.


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Thanks kat!

Original?? As in for each System?? Is that 10,000 "original" pairs per Local universe? Are they created in pairs? Are the angels?


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