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 Post subject: Re: Metaphysics
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I wonder if anyone has considered my earlier questions about the necessity for metaphysical constructs of reality, even if totally wrong...or mostly wrong? What does the UB teach us about the need for knowledge and facts....even if those are fictional and false?

How is that a completely, or mostly, inaccurate view/perspective of reality still allows a faith based religious experience which gives birth to soul and the endowment of the TA and the gift of personal revelation and truth discernment and experience?

For this is how primitive people and children face reality....with so many false elements of reality perception. Even today, most of the world is populated by the uneducated and those who are educated have very limited scientific evidence upon which to base a reality perspective. General cosmology and even basic physics is still based on theoretical constructs which contradict the Revelation as science seeks to explain so much that remains without explanation.

Metaphysics is that process of reason which creates solutions to that which is not explained by verified science. On Urantia today, the spectrum of metaphysics between people and populations is still extreme, where many still depend upon complete mythologies and the false doctrines of various priesthoods to explain reality and others depend upon scientific theories that are also false and merely waiting for the scientific method to prove them as such.

Still can and do people have meaningful and progressive religious experience. What then is the importance of reality and knowledge and understanding to our universe journey to Paradise? Why does Deity provide Epochal Revelation and celestial leadership and corporeal celestials on planet (not ours now but certainly so in the past and still again to come in our future!) if such knowledge and the elimination of error and reduction of confusion regarding reality-perspective if it is not also important to mortals?

How is it important? Socially, I understand it is important to become truly civilized and enlightened and reach that state of Light and Life. Society cannot advance further than its components we are taught. So then...is a factual knowledge of the cosmos and reality important to the each primarily for the progress of the whole???? I think so, yes. You?

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here's the list of some concepts the mind creates that you characterize as metaphysical fallacies for primitives and children:

Quote:
The understandings of truth, beauty, and goodness, morality, ethics, duty, love, divinity, origin, existence, purpose, destiny, time, space, even Deity, are only relatively true.


none of them are fallacies...but none of them are really true...when realities of truth are wedded to fact they become concepts and relegated to the domain of relative cosmic realities. the truth/facts in the papers aren't above that because we aren't above that...it's how our minds work


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 Post subject: Re: Metaphysics
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Hi Makalu,

Can you see a distinction between:

(a) "primitive metaphysical fallacies" (that serve mainly to reduce fear), and
(b) our deepest metaphysical strivings, our sincere attempt to bridge known gaps.

PS: When we factor in our personal response to the reality sensitivity made accessible by the "three cosmic intuitions", then our sincere metaphysical strivings become a truly interesting exercise.

From (paper 16:6.10):

Quote:
"These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions. But when they become unified, they produce a strong character consisting in the correlation of a factual science, a moral philosophy, and a genuine religious experience. And it is these three cosmic intuitions that give objective validity, reality, to man's experience in and with things, meanings, and values."(16:6.10, 192.6)

For reference, here's another of those little glyphs I use as shorthand when wondering about many-sided things:

Image

What do you think?

Nigel


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well metaphysics is the attempt to unite matter and spirit and the papers say the primitive mind didn't make a distinction between the worlds of energy and spirit so they weren't attempting to unite them. the reality is there is a distinction and the primitive fears and supernatural superstitions are a result of not recognizing/responding to that reality.

i see the triune philosophy of the papers as a major take-away yeah...always have. it takes metaphysics quite a bit farther in a number of ways though...especially with the emphasis on not just conscious of matter and spirit but the consciousness of consciousness, mind itself.

i see the differences between relative levels of incomplete understandings...not sure that makes the lower levels any less sincere.


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I believe that personality is spirit pattern and is responsible for unity attempts. Example is when true religion and true science attempt unity there is a super additive and that is true philosophy. That’s about as close to Spirit as we can get. Call it metaphysics if you like but if growth results, then the effort implies true value and meaning.
What was that quote about it’s sad to record that so few people don’t do reflective thinking - or something like that?


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As much as "selfish prayer remains unanswered by God", we probably misunderstand the actual dynamic of metaphysics. If the Thought Adjuster is the "nucleus" or "spiritual nucleus" of the human individual, it is easy to understand why a "demand of the conscious mind does not constitute the actuality of petition." (Theory) perhaps Jesus looking for "confirmation of the heart" in human decision. We are contunially reminded in the Urantia Papers that, to Jesus, religion was a matter of sincere devotion, through the unconsciousness of the human individual. Monota the postulate of a substance which is undifferentiated spirit and matter. Beings brought forth from material existences, require intermediary field of consciousness 'mota' of refined adjutant force and the summation/amalgamation of those forces may lead to the fomentation of the prefused human individual with his original identity (Adjuster identity).

Until we can distinguish between subjects like "preferential choice" and "affirmational choice" i.e. "votive choice", then people will be liable to mistake the influence of others with the "election of the soul".

Metaphysics would be apparent to the Adjuster-Fused individual if he can self-observative the cosmic forces as they transpire within the conscious-human mind. It also requires the precondition that Jesus "could freely act purely as human or purely as Creator Son", in that Adjuster action fully coodinated with the human action, and zero human interference with this function.

Is the idea of lucid dreaming, something that might connect with actuality dynamic of Urantia Papers, in that "the spirit may leave the body", and the mind of the body safely dormant during those period as Adjuster conspire with other Adjustern and Spiritual Personality, in the trust that universe affairs must be executed. Oh let me look up what I am alluding to: 110:6.22 The great days in the individual careers of Adjusters are: first, when the human subject breaks through into the third psychic circle, thus insuring the Monitor's self-activity and increased range of function (provided the indweller was not already self-acting); I.e. self-acting activity of the Monitor where the human body protected by guardian seraph, maybe the same way Tiglath protected Jesus' belonging before JEsus' ascent on Hermon. 134:8.1 the foothills of Mount Hermon. Here, near the middle of August, A.D. 25, he established his headquarters, and leaving his supplies in the custody of Tiglath, he ascended the lonely slopes of the mountain. A correspondance symbol relationship.

The 'metaphysics of answered prayer' as a form of confirmational Revelation? Even though the confirmation required a delay period of administering the prayer through the proper channels, and in human faith forebearance and acceptance of "what will be done". This is like the idea of prayer in Bill Watterson's "Calvin & Hobbes" when Calvin wrote to "Chocolate-Frosted Sugar Bombs" a letter in the mail with "proof of purchase", to receive his complementary "beanie hat". After the letter was sent, Calvin was overcome with "expectancy". Of course this is my very immature interpretation of prayer without the injunctions of the Adjuster prompting the human mind to know "the hours" in which the human is required to advance his own part, his own "share in the covenant", the necessary steps he must take in order to ensure that such prayer may be effectuated.
https://metalman777.wordpress.com/2009/ ... mb-beanie/
Except that the answer to prayer is not so disappointing because the human is hoping for spiritual ends, not just capital.

I think it is very funny because Calvin said to be 6 years old, slightly more days than the average age of "Adjuster Dispatch".

I think metaphysics must be very plain from the perspective of the Adjuster. When people ask to see "through the eyes of Jesus" or "What would Jesus do?" it is incumbant on Urantia readers, to note that the Chief Adjuster of Urantia separated from Jesus long ago, whereas the Chief Adjuster of Urantia contains the entire human record of Jesus' asencion into a fusion adult individual, foreupon Mount Hermon, or as it is stated in the Gospels before John's Baptism.

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no sophist wrote:
What was that quote about it’s sad to record that so few people don’t do reflective thinking - or something like that?


Is this it?

(110:7.6) But with the vast majority of Urantians the Adjuster must patiently await the arrival of death deliverance; must await the liberation of the emerging soul from the well-nigh complete domination of the energy patterns and chemical forces inherent in your material order of existence. The chief difficulty you experience in contacting with your Adjusters consists in this very inherent material nature. So few mortals are real thinkers; you do not spiritually develop and discipline your minds to the point of favorable liaison with the divine Adjusters. The ear of the human mind is almost deaf to the spiritual pleas which the Adjuster translates from the manifold messages of the universal broadcasts of love proceeding from the Father of mercies. The Adjuster finds it almost impossible to register these inspiring spirit leadings in an animal mind so completely dominated by the chemical and electrical forces inherent in your physical natures.


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 Post subject: Re: Metaphysics
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Where to begin?

Please provide text or references in support of your propositions.

What is monota?

Isn't undifferentiated spirit just spirit and undifferentiated matter just matter?

What have the adjutants to do with mota or soul or morontia mind?

Is personal identity the same as "original " identity? Since TA's are prepersonal how are they the source of anyone's personal identity?

Once fused with TA do we still have "human-mind"?

What cosmic forces transpire within the human mind?

SEla....in less than a day you are repeating your behavior of directly but so casually contradicting the Papers...as the questions above, and their answers readily attest. And the only quote you offer is declared metaphorical rather than the simple recital of the story.

Again, let me suggest you do more reading and research and less pontificating for in this one post you include no fewer than 5 direct contradictions to text and multiple declarations and claims without supporting text. Please stop polluting this topic with personal rhetoric and theories unrelated to the UB or which contradict it.

Thank you.

Mods? :roll: :? :-& :oops:


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
... This is like the idea of prayer in Bill Watterson's "Calvin & Hobbes" when Calvin wrote to "Chocolate-Frosted Sugar Bombs" a letter in the mail with "proof of purchase", to receive his complementary "beanie hat". After the letter was sent, Calvin was overcome with "expectancy". Of course this is my very immature interpretation of prayer ...

... Except that the answer to prayer is not so disappointing because the human is hoping for spiritual ends, not just capital. ...



I liked your reference of Calvin’s expectancy of his beanie hat, and your point of prayer ... the human is hoping for spiritual ends, not just capital is so true. When I look at some of my prayers, it is exactly this. :lol:

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No, I am wrong you are correct fanofVan about your question Jesus' ability to coordinate separate human and divine activities? That is perhaps only a Creator Son prerogative rather than condition-ability of the human individual.

I describe monota quite well look it up 42:2.19-20.


What do I mean "original" identity? Actually I mean "spirit" identification:
40.5.4 Spirit identification constitutes the secret of personal survival and determines the destiny of spiritual ascension. ... the Thought Adjusters are the only spirits of fusion potential to be identified with man during the life in the flesh


The morontial being uses the sixth and seventh adjutant as the foundation of its prosperity. There are higher adjutant forces at play harmoniously fomenting into the mota. How does this happen my best way to describe is "fomentation" the infusion of medicine into the body. But you are correct where is the text that supports this "higher scales of adjutant forces.
34:6.4 Spiritual forces unerringly seek and attain their own original levels.
34:6.5 Spiritual life, like physical energy, is consumed. (i.e. fomentation: as it is consumed, it is incorporated)
The apostle Paul describes this incorporation not as "fomentation" but as "strengthening": 34:6.10 The purpose of all this ministration is, “That you may be strengthened with power through His spirit in the inner man.”, whereas the Censor in Paper 16:4.10 describes it as "life-activations".
You certainly have a point because I only meant the sixth and seventh adjutant spirit, combined with higher scales of adjutant ministry, and I am having a difficulty finding the text to show you that the morontial identity "begins with" the sixth and seventh adjutant, and the other adjutant forces which the morontial identity receptive unto. That is what I meant; please excuse me.

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Thanks for the reference on "monota" which is actually an energy form undifferentiated (by the author) from spirit, and not matter at all (so far as I can tell). Matter and spirit are always differentiated I think, even on Paradise, but worth looking into. You see the importance of posting references I hope.

42:2.19 (471.3) 7. Monota. Energy is close of kin to divinity when it is Paradise energy. We incline to the belief that monota is the living, nonspirit energy of Paradise—an eternity counterpart of the living, spirit energy of the Original Son—hence the nonspiritual energy system of the Universal Father.

You say: "Beings brought forth from material existences, require intermediary field of consciousness 'mota' of refined adjutant force and the summation/amalgamation of those forces may lead to the fomentation of the prefused human individual with his original identity (Adjuster identity)."

You then say: "The morontial being uses the sixth and seventh adjutant as the foundation of its prosperity. There are higher adjutant forces at play harmoniously fomenting into the mota."


I am confused by your presentation on the role of the adjutants described here, especially the "mota of refined adjutant force". Here's a link to all the text quotes which include "adjutants" in any form, I look forward to those references you might cite for clarification of your points. So far as I understand, the adjutants do not minister to soul or morontia mind at all but only to evolutionary, material mind.

https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

The adjutants are only ministers to material, evolutionary mind and are unrelated to mota:

36:5.13 The adjutant mind-spirits experientially grow, but they never become personal. They evolve in function, and the function of the first five in the animal orders is to a certain extent essential to the function of all seven as human intellect. This animal relationship makes the adjutants more practically effective as human mind; hence animals are to a certain extent indispensable to man's intellectual as well as to his physical evolution.

You say: "You certainly have a point because I only meant the sixth and seventh adjutant spirit, combined with higher scales of adjutant ministry, and I am having a difficulty finding the text to show you that the morontial identity "begins with" the sixth and seventh adjutant, and the other adjutant forces which the morontial identity receptive unto. That is what I meant; please excuse me."


I look forward to your citations and quotes. "Morontial identity" is not receptive unto the adjutants and I have no idea what you mean by "the other adjutant forces"...but I look forward to your specificity in the matter.

Another example of the value of posted text for clarification:

You reply to my question about identity: "What do I mean "original" identity? Actually I mean "spirit" identification:

40.5.4 Spirit identification constitutes the secret of personal survival and determines the destiny of spiritual ascension. ... the Thought Adjusters are the only spirits of fusion potential to be identified with man during the life in the flesh


The "original" identity of self is certainly not the TA. And "spirit identification" is not the same thing as identity either. Spirit identification has to do with the original self (ME) choosing to internally self identify with my spirit nature. So "original identity" is very confusing and misleading.


Full quote:

40:5.4 (445.5) Spirit identification constitutes the secret of personal survival and determines the destiny of spiritual ascension. And since the Thought Adjusters are the only spirits of fusion potential to be identified with man during the life in the flesh, the mortals of time and space are primarily classified in accordance with their relation to these divine gifts, the indwelling Mystery Monitors. This classification is as follows:

This quote does not say that TA's are a mortal ascender's self or identity - original or otherwise. It says that as the self or identity of self chooses to respond to, cooperate with, and affiliate with (or identify with) the God Fragment within, the more spiritized the self or our identity becomes. The quote has to do with the progressive religious experience leading up to fusion.


I suggest a reading of Section 2 - The Self in Paper 112 - Personality Survival for more accurate information regarding our identity:

112:2.20 (1229.7) The material self, the ego-entity of human identity, is dependent during the physical life on the continuing function of the material life vehicle, on the continued existence of the unbalanced equilibrium of energies and intellect which, on Urantia, has been given the name life. But selfhood of survival value, selfhood that can transcend the experience of death, is only evolved by establishing a potential transfer of the seat of the identity of the evolving personality from the transient life vehicle—the material body—to the more enduring and immortal nature of the morontia soul and on beyond to those levels whereon the soul becomes infused with, and eventually attains the status of, spirit reality. This actual transfer from material association to morontia identification is effected by the sincerity, persistence, and steadfastness of the God-seeking decisions of the human creature.

By the way, I am still me and retain self-hood even after fusion as I recall. The me that is born as me and evolves as me on this material world and survives as me on the Mansion worlds still remains ME after fusion. Original identity as personality with free will and the character developed thereby retains its identity and selfhood not only through fusion but all the way to the pure spirit adventures as finaliter...as I understand. You seem to be saying otherwise. I have no pre-existance. And I will always be me. I begin as me and me is eternal...based on my personal choice to identify with the spirits present within and around me who endow me and minister to me....but are not me. They don't take me over or replace me. Not how it works.


Perhaps you might attempt some research prior to your declarations which contradict the Revelation? Thank you.


Bradly 8)


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48:7.1 (556.1) The lower planes of morontia mota join directly with the higher levels of human philosophy.

112:6.4 In the morontia estate the ascending mortal is endowed with the Nebadon modification of the cosmic-mind endowment of the Master Spirit of Orvonton.

34:6.1 With the advancing evolution of an inhabited planet and the further spiritualization of its inhabitants, additional spiritual influences may be received by such mature personalities. As mortals progress in mind control and spirit perception, these multiple spirit ministries become more and more co-ordinate in function; they become increasingly blended with the overministry of the Paradise Trinity.


36:5.3 These life-mind emplacements are perfect indicators of living mind function for the first five adjutants. But with regard to the sixth and seventh adjutant spirits—worship and wisdom—these central lodgments record only a qualitative function. The quantitative activity of the adjutant of worship and the adjutant of wisdom is registered in the immediate presence of the Divine Minister on Salvington, being a personal experience of the Universe Mother Spirit.
36:5.14 These mind-adjutants of a local universe Mother Spirit are related to creature life of intelligence status much as the power centers and physical controllers are related to the nonliving forces of the universe.

38:9.7 twelve levels of intellectual response to the joint ministry of the last two adjutant spirits and the morontia mind.
I believe there are 10 additional levels of adjutant cosmic mind force operational in the morontia based on this last quotation, but it is a description of Secondary (Adamic) Midwayer Creatures. However, in the progression of the morontial being, he transitions towards becoming likened unto seraphim (38:9.9), passing through the likeness of Secondary then Primary Midwayer. Wow maybe it is not proper to regard those levels of intellectual response as being part of the cosmic adjutant mind. You're right. I do not know why I think of this as a "higher scale of the adjutant mind"; maybe because I think of the sixth and seventh adjutant spirits as being quasi-morontial.

<38:9.7 Secondary midwayers are physically energized by the Adamic technique, spiritually encircuited by the seraphic, and intellectually endowed with the morontia transition type of mind. They are divided into four physical types, seven orders spiritually, and twelve levels of intellectual response to the joint ministry of the last two adjutant spirits and the morontia mind. These diversities determine their differential of activity and of planetary assignment.>

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Last edited by SEla_Kelly on Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:58 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
48:7.1 (556.1) The lower planes of morontia mota join directly with the higher levels of human philosophy.

112:6.4 In the morontia estate the ascending mortal is endowed with the Nebadon modification of the cosmic-mind endowment of the Master Spirit of Orvonton.

34:6.1 With the advancing evolution of an inhabited planet and the further spiritualization of its inhabitants, additional spiritual influences may be received by such mature personalities. As mortals progress in mind control and spirit perception, these multiple spirit ministries become more and more co-ordinate in function; they become increasingly blended with the overministry of the Paradise Trinity.


36:5.3 These life-mind emplacements are perfect indicators of living mind function for the first five adjutants. But with regard to the sixth and seventh adjutant spirits—worship and wisdom—these central lodgments record only a qualitative function. The quantitative activity of the adjutant of worship and the adjutant of wisdom is registered in the immediate presence of the Divine Minister on Salvington, being a personal experience of the Universe Mother Spirit.
36:5.14 These mind-adjutants of a local universe Mother Spirit are related to creature life of intelligence status much as the power centers and physical controllers are related to the nonliving forces of the universe.

38:9.7 twelve levels of intellectual response to the joint ministry of the last two adjutant spirits and the morontia mind.
I believe there are 10 additional levels of adjutant cosmic mind force operational in the morontia based on this last quotation, but it is a description of Secondary (Adamic) Midwayer Creatures. However, in the progression of the morontial being, he transitions towards becoming likened unto seraphim, passing through the likeness of Secondary then Primary Midwayer. Wow maybe it is not proper to regard those levels of intellectual response as being part of the cosmic adjutant mind. You're right. Those levels are not the realm of the Divine Minister, but rather encircuited through "the Nebadon modification of the cosmic-mind endowment of the Master Spirit of Orvonton."


Thanks for the quotes....for now we may begin to discuss and discover the revelatory text and the terms and context it provides to perspective. Next it would be helpful if you would either post the whole quote or make some notation that you have snipped text from within a quote. Thanks.

48:7.1 (556.1) The lower planes of morontia mota join directly with the higher levels of human philosophy. On the first mansion world it is the practice to teach the less advanced students by the parallel technique; that is, in one column are presented the more simple concepts of mota meanings, and in the opposite column citation is made of analogous statements of mortal philosophy.

This quote does not link a concurrent influence of the adjutants and morontial mind...as such does not exist or function. This Paper is on life after material death which ends the influence of the adjutants. Likewise is Paper 112, Section 6 on the Morontia Self and does not have anything to do with the adjutants (if that is your point in posting this text).


Paper 36, Section 5 on The Seven Adjutant Mind Spirits is a favorite of mine....and does not support your prior claims regarding "other adjutant forces" or "morontial identity" being receptive to adjutants and "forces" or the "higher scale of adjutant ministry".


It is true that the mortal ascender has the adjutant ministries as the foundation of the evolutionary faith experience for the greater and later and separate ministries of the God Fragment and the Spirit of Truth and personal revelation which then leads the material mind to create and give birth to soul which is morontia mind which is not connected to or ministered to by the adjutants. These are important relationships to keep clear SEla and not be jumbled together or homogenized into indistinguishable influences and effects.


Finally, 38:9.7 has nothing to do with mortals at all. Midwayers are named very appropriately. They are midway between material and morontial and have many unique features in addition to this one.

But now I understand your point saying: "The morontial being uses the sixth and seventh adjutant as the foundation of its prosperity. There are higher adjutant forces at play harmoniously fomenting into the mota." You offer a false conclusion based on a fictional premise justified by an incomplete snippet of text. Sorry, but no cigar!

This is not true for mortals of the realm on the evolutionary worlds or after survival upon the Mansion Worlds. The Midwayers are not mortal or material beings and have a very unique composition and relationship to both the material and morontial planes of existence.

38:9.7 (424.7) Secondary midwayers are physically energized by the Adamic technique, spiritually encircuited by the seraphic, and intellectually endowed with the morontia transition type of mind. They are divided into four physical types, seven orders spiritually, and twelve levels of intellectual response to the joint ministry of the last two adjutant spirits and the morontia mind. These diversities determine their differential of activity and of planetary assignment.




Not any evidence in support of your prior declarations but I really do appreciate your effort at research and the posting or relevant text. Progress!

To offer this forum ANY credibility Stephen, in the future please cease your snippets postings. Here it clearly demonstrates your attempt to change the meanings of the text to twist it into some conformity of personal beliefs and prejudices. This is a clever but underhanded strategy and demonstrates a lack of sincerity and lack of desire to learn. It is an egregious act which destroys the very purpose of TruthBook which is for new readers to be able to depend upon seasoned readers to discover what the UB says for itself about universe realities to reduce confusions and eliminate the errors of belief and faulty metaphysics.

When you declare additional faulty and personal metaphysics and then justify those with out of context snippets of text you destroy TB's purpose and potential....unless, perhaps, someone takes the time to point it out. However, it is a big step forward for you to include any text at all so I appreciate that and encourage you to take the next steps in presenting logical, reasoned, researched, and cited discussion and discovery of the UB.

The UB was given to us to replace our faulty personal metaphysics, not as a tool to confirm or defend them. That's why we gather here to study the Revelation and not your theories nor mine. Please let the UB speak for itself?

Do your reading and research first and post and cite the text and then discuss and ask clarifying questions for others to respond to. You know...like a classroom of students in study might do.

Thank you.


:biggrin: :wink: 8)


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The evolutionary process can appear so impersonal and so unfair on the surface of its examination considering that some seem so less favored in circumstance and others more favored…by racial tendencies but also by era and the forms of suffering endured (from disease and carnivores and cannibals to war and slavery and genocide) as measured by the material life we live.

So much human suffering is simply due to ignorance and primitive superstitions during long eras where our collective metaphysics fails us in so many ways as we fall victim to a lack of science and understanding of the material world and the spiritual realities as we invent all manner of fables and fictions to try to explain the unexplainable. But I am heartened by the Revelation’s teachings about the briefness of such material suffering and the reality that no one truly suffers any lack of opportunity for spirit ministry and response no matter the racial or social or personal circumstances and sources or severity of personal suffering.

5:1.5 (63.3) However Urantia mortals may differ in their intellectual, social, economic, and even moral opportunities and endowments, forget not that their spiritual endowment is uniform and unique. They all enjoy the same divine presence of the gift from the Father, and they are all equally privileged to seek intimate personal communion with this indwelling spirit of divine origin, while they may all equally choose to accept the uniform spiritual leading of these Mystery Monitors.

5:1.6 (63.4) If mortal man is wholeheartedly spiritually motivated, unreservedly consecrated to the doing of the Father’s will, then, since he is so certainly and so effectively spiritually endowed by the indwelling and divine Adjuster, there cannot fail to materialize in that individual’s experience the sublime consciousness of knowing God and the supernal assurance of surviving for the purpose of finding God by the progressive experience of becoming more and more like him.

5:1.7 (63.5) Man is spiritually indwelt by a surviving Thought Adjuster. If such a human mind is sincerely and spiritually motivated, if such a human soul desires to know God and become like him, honestly wants to do the Father’s will, there exists no negative influence of mortal deprivation nor positive power of possible interference which can prevent such a divinely motivated soul from securely ascending to the portals of Paradise.

Me here: The reality that we can have an effective and transformative religious experience which delivers each of us the opportunity for eternal adventure and growth regardless of our material realities and our ignorance of universe reality and the construction of completely false and fictional realities is absolutely astounding to me!!! That faith and truth can penetrate and overcome such depths of ignorance and error and depravity and suffering and primitivism and superstition in the material life to deliver happiness and contentment and peace is amazing!! No matter our material origins or circumstances we may each enjoy this phenomenon and experience and enjoy the sublime assurance of God’s love and embrace.

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 Post subject: Re: Metaphysics
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171:2.2-4 “You who would follow after me from this time on, must be willing to pay the price of wholehearted dedication to the doing of my Father's will. If you would be my disciples, you must be willing to forsake father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters. If any one of you would now be my disciple, you must be willing to give up even your life just as the Son of Man is about to offer up his life for the completion of the mission of doing the Father's will on earth and in the flesh.
If you are not willing to pay the full price, you can hardly be my disciple. Before you go further, you should each sit down and count the cost of being my disciple. Which one of you would undertake to build a watchtower on your lands without first sitting down to count up the cost to see whether you had money enough to complete it? If you fail thus to reckon the cost, after you have laid the foundation, you may discover that you are unable to finish that which you have begun, and therefore will all your neighbors mock you, saying, ‘Behold, this man began to build but was unable to finish his work.' Again, what king, when he prepares to make war upon another king, does not first sit down and take counsel as to whether he will be able, with ten thousand men, to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? If the king cannot afford to meet his enemy because he is unprepared, he sends an embassy to this other king, even when he is yet a great way off, asking for terms of peace.
Now, then, must each of you sit down and count the cost of being my disciple. From now on you will not be able to follow after us, listening to the teaching and beholding the works; you will be required to face bitter persecutions and to bear witness for this gospel in the face of crushing disappointment. If you are unwilling to renounce all that you are and to dedicate all that you have, then are you unworthy to be my disciple."

I believe that the proper picture of Metaphysics remains "unrevealed", since the cost of activation is so high. It is one thing to acknowledge the potential that fanofVan poses. But can I or Judas truly foresake the stake, in the form of selfish ambition or childish dreams something like this, even foresaking filial piety, to become the "self-actualised" sentience center living and breathing yet on Urantia? The full operation of God's sustenance only active by sincere devotion to the doing of God's will. FanofVan has shared enough quotation to cite this although he sticks with the positive side: affirmation of this potential for every man.

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to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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