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Greetings mortal ascenders,

Presently, male or female, we are all Father finders. If I suggested a sexual identity for each of us, spiritually, wouldn't we all be female recipients of a Father's impregnation by a fragment of Himself? (that is if we believed God was male). Isn't sexual identity limited to planetary use for the production of sexually differentiated mortal offspring, future spiritual children ascenders? I have read, "that in Christ we are neither male nor female". Isn't that because we are new spiritual creatures as faith sons of God?

The Father idea does not relate to the maleness of a mortal man; nor does it imply any hierarchy in a relationship between a male and a female. The Father idea indicates the production of children born of flesh, and, then born of the spirit as ascenders. The advantages of sex associations are childbearing here, and, childrearing here and in the future worlds of our progression. I estimate these experiences teach us about our Father's love and aide us in finding our Fathers in successive ascensions. Some of the parenting lessons I have missed in my current planetary training, I expect I will be learning in the mansion world nursery, or, perhaps as a childcare provider for the children of Material Parents under their tutoring.

One person noted that even as Finaliters we retain something of our mortal sex identification. I will have an experiential recollection of birthing mortal children different from those who fathered them. Others may not have experienced birthing or fathering mortal children. And yet, while these planetary life's experiences are different, will not all ascenders learn similar childrearing/uplifting lessons to aide their fellow ascenders with, and by, their Father's love during their training and progressions?

I believe the Urantia Book addresses personal religion, in that God desires that His children come to Him (and multitudes of future children). When I consider the disagreements of my fellow ascenders I think of children, toddlers "kicking and screaming at the other kids". I remember we are all so young, and have begun the same journey, and some keep asking, "Are we there yet"? And we all have so far to go!

Have a good day


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I think the issue is that we have a personality and an identity. IMO that personality is not sexed. Its not male or female. Yet we have this identity that is male/female. IMO personality can engage either male or females, because it is not either. There are some quotes in the u.b that mention that we do retain some of that "maleness" or "femaleness".

IMO we are all "Sons" in the sene that we are all the non-sex personalities, yet we have this sexed identity that we seem to retain somewhat forever.

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Hello, I was hunting through TUB and I can't find the page that I saw it, but I do recall that it was mentioned about......"it is also possible for two people of the same sex to form a bond" or words to that effect. So yes, TUB acknowledges people can be gay. Nothing negative was mentioned.


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Hi hex,

I think you're looking for this one:

Quote:
(160:2.4) Symbolic communication between human beings predetermines the bringing into existence of social groups. The most effective of all social groups is the family, more particularly the two parents. Personal affection is the spiritual bond which holds together these material associations. Such an effective relationship is also possible between two persons of the same sex, as is so abundantly illustrated in the devotions of genuine friendships.


I think this can be interpreted to mean that the two parents can be an effective relationship between 2 people of the same sex

And the relationship glue is a spiritual bond of personal affection

This is called a social group, a family...I think it's great that a family can created by same-sex couples. As long as love is the motivator, any two people should be congratulated for wanting that and making it happen. It is hard work!

There are good reasons that man/woman relationships comprise the vast majority of families - after all, the race must be replenished, and men and women are created to be the ideal complementary partners in child-rearing and home-building for the sake of producing sturdy, balanced adults - but, love really has no gender...if a child feels loved by their family, they will be happy, and any shortcomings can be overcome when we're happy. Many heterosexual couples' families are not perfect either...

MaryJo


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good comments here!

Formerly of the rank and file of gay-basher conservative christianity, I had a "heart-opening"experience that changed my personal attitude. I sincerely prayed and asked for direction in this matter because frankly I was tired of my own knee-jerk reaction every time the subject came up. The answer that came to me was: "Gay love is better than no love".


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pethuel wrote:
good comments here!

Formerly of the rank and file of gay-basher conservative christianity, I had a "heart-opening"experience that changed my personal attitude. I sincerely prayed and asked for direction in this matter because frankly I was tired of my own knee-jerk reaction every time the subject came up. The answer that came to me was: "Gay love is better than no love".


Sorry but my knees are still jerking.
As a heterosexual, married with family I have great difficulty with distinguishing gay love from gay passion and to me it’s all about the latter. And gay still means happy in my book.
To try to find acceptance of homosexuality in the Urantia book is evidence that one questions their own orientation and it’s validity. Please leave the Urantia book out of it.
For example, one could just as easily refer to Jesus statement “love the sinner and hate the sin” and adapt it to personal interpretation of the revelation in regard to homosexuality.
All a big mistake imho.
If you take anything from the revelation, put to work the endowments that save us from so many a-priori assumptions.


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For those with an interest in the topic, here's a link to another lengthy and thoughtful discussion on the matter:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4822&hilit=gay


Related to the UB, the issue to me is simply that we are presented with so many ideals and norms which are so distorted or absent on our world at this point in history that it seems a little silly and primitive to let such an irrelevancy or trivial matter to take much time or energy. We are all God's children, beloved and cherished. All of us are able to respond to love and to give love to others....and to forgive one another. We are each measured by our forgiveness of others and our love of others - regardless of their choices. So who is in jeopardy here? I would suggest it is the knee jerkers and the haters and those who might condemn others that are in jeopardy based on the teachings of the UB.

And that, so far as I can tell, is the only relevant teaching related to the matter. I've not read anyone here seeking to validate such a choice but, rather, to verify that such choices do not prevent nor preclude God's love and mercy and our family obligation to embrace those making such choices in love and in forgiveness of whatever we might perceive to be someone else's failures or faults or errors or sins. The point is not the error but the forgiveness and love which prevails despite all such human errors in choice and relationship. To generalize and stereotype others is always error. To think gays do not love and forgive and strive and serve and embrace God, truth, beauty, and goodness is simple ignorance and to say such a belief demonstrates such ignorance.


Know any? Love any? If so one soon discovers the depth of humanity and potential and the spiritual nature inherent in all people. Or so is my experience and perspective.


:wink: :biggrin: 8)


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fanofVan wrote:
For those with an interest in the topic, here's a link to another lengthy and thoughtful discussion on the matter:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4822&hilit=gay


Related to the UB, the issue to me is simply that we are presented with so many ideals and norms which are so distorted or absent on our world at this point in history that it seems a little silly and primitive to let such an irrelevancy or trivial matter to take much time or energy. We are all God's children, beloved and cherished. All of us are able to respond to love and to give love to others....and to forgive one another. We are each measured by our forgiveness of others and our love of others - regardless of their choices. So who is in jeopardy here? I would suggest it is the knee jerkers and the haters and those who might condemn others that are in jeopardy based on the teachings of the UB.

And that, so far as I can tell, is the only relevant teaching related to the matter. I've not read anyone here seeking to validate such a choice but, rather, to verify that such choices do not prevent nor preclude God's love and mercy and our family obligation to embrace those making such choices in love and in forgiveness of whatever we might perceive to be someone else's failures or faults or errors or sins. The point is not the error but the forgiveness and love which prevails despite all such human errors in choice and relationship. To generalize and stereotype others is always error. To think gays do not love and forgive and strive and serve and embrace God, truth, beauty, and goodness is simple ignorance and to say such a belief demonstrates such ignorance.


Know any? Love any? If so one soon discovers the depth of humanity and potential and the spiritual nature inherent in all people. Or so is my experience and perspective.


:wink: :biggrin: 8)


Well said and I tend to agree. As God knows the end from the beginning it don’t seem there is much we can do that would offend him.
Having grown up in San Francisco most gays I knew were always trying to take advantage of me from as early in my childhood as I can remember. It’s not somerhing I can learn to love and appreciate but I try to live with it.
My knees jerk for other reasons too and they are not preconceived or unfounded prejudices. But thats another story and it don’t stop me from doing my best to practice brotherly love.
When a man proposed to me at a time in my past, a man I held as a dear friend, who knew I was happily married to a woman, with children, I was deeply offended but who gives a **** about that,
I exercised my coping skills and retained friendship.
But one thing for certain, leave the Urantia book out of this except for what van points out.


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Our world is so messed up in so many ways. I figure, confusion about sexuality and gender may very well be just another symptom of the failure to upstep Urantia on a genetic basis; and/or other symptom of the ills our world in isolation must endure due to the Rebellion and the default of Adam and Eve.


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no sophist wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
For those with an interest in the topic, here's a link to another lengthy and thoughtful discussion on the matter:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4822&hilit=gay


Related to the UB, the issue to me is simply that we are presented with so many ideals and norms which are so distorted or absent on our world at this point in history that it seems a little silly and primitive to let such an irrelevancy or trivial matter to take much time or energy. We are all God's children, beloved and cherished. All of us are able to respond to love and to give love to others....and to forgive one another. We are each measured by our forgiveness of others and our love of others - regardless of their choices. So who is in jeopardy here? I would suggest it is the knee jerkers and the haters and those who might condemn others that are in jeopardy based on the teachings of the UB.

And that, so far as I can tell, is the only relevant teaching related to the matter. I've not read anyone here seeking to validate such a choice but, rather, to verify that such choices do not prevent nor preclude God's love and mercy and our family obligation to embrace those making such choices in love and in forgiveness of whatever we might perceive to be someone else's failures or faults or errors or sins. The point is not the error but the forgiveness and love which prevails despite all such human errors in choice and relationship. To generalize and stereotype others is always error. To think gays do not love and forgive and strive and serve and embrace God, truth, beauty, and goodness is simple ignorance and to say such a belief demonstrates such ignorance.


Know any? Love any? If so one soon discovers the depth of humanity and potential and the spiritual nature inherent in all people. Or so is my experience and perspective.


:wink: :biggrin: 8)


Well said and I tend to agree. As God knows the end from the beginning it don’t seem there is much we can do that would offend him.
Having grown up in San Francisco most gays I knew were always trying to take advantage of me from as early in my childhood as I can remember. It’s not somerhing I can learn to love and appreciate but I try to live with it.
My knees jerk for other reasons too and they are not preconceived or unfounded prejudices. But thats another story and it don’t stop me from doing my best to practice brotherly love.
When a man proposed to me at a time in my past, a man I held as a dear friend, who knew I was happily married to a woman, with children, I was deeply offended but who gives a **** about that,
I exercised my coping skills and retained friendship.
But one thing for certain, leave the Urantia book out of this except for what van points out.


I agree that TUB is not the place to search for validation for one's sexual preference, or any other choice for that matter. "God told me I could" is just as weak a justification as "The devil made me do it".


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