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This thread is kind of like my journal as I read The Urantia Book, for those interested in seeing how a newcomer to the book gets on as he studies it, cover to cover, in Paper order.

So far I find what I am reading extremely interesting, though some of it does go against my well-grounded Christian beliefs. I am not yet ready (and not sure if I ever will be) to place the teachings of The Urantia Book above those of the Bible. However, as I said, it is still a fascinating, thought provoking book to read.

I have written a few questions down in my notebook that I have raised within myself as I read the Urantia Book. I am hoping The Urantia Book will answer those questions for itself as I continue to read and study. Such questions are:

1) What are the “enlightened worlds”? (1.0.3) Is Earth/Urantia an enlightened world?

2) Does the Urantia Book teach that mankind did in fact descend from animals as evolution teaches us? (1.0.3)

3) What sins would warrant the total annihilation of the “sinner”on Urantia? (2.3.2)

4) When a person dies, what happens to them immediately upon death? Is there a “soul sleep” (as my former religion (Jehovah’s Witnesses) teaches, or is there an immediate translation to a Heaven like place? (2.3.2)

5) Why does the Urantia Book tell us that God is never wrathful, vengeful or angry, when the Bible clearly states He is, or at least was? (2.6.7)

I am not looking for anybody reading this to answer these questions; they are, just as I said, questions I have asked within myself as I read.

The end of Paper 4 did make me feel somewhat uncomfortable when it seems to go against the doctrine of Jesus shedding his blood, and dying for us on the Cross. This teaching is one of the most valuable in the Bible, and underpins the whole doctrine of the Christian belief.

Interesting book indeed. “Paper 5 - God’s Relation to the Individual” next.

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Hi Myrm...I have to give you props for exploring The Urantia Book and its teachings in light of your traditional Christian underpinnings. That takes courage and an open mind - both sterling qualities! Thanks for sharing your journey with us...I suspect you will discover the answers to your questions as you move forward. And I hope you'll continue to keep us informed!

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Myrm,
This journal is a fantastic idea! I wish I had done something like this the first time I read the UB. I am sure everyone here will respect your study process and give you space to find these answers in your own time/ as your Thought Adjuster and UB reading enable your increasing understanding.

Best wishes; and again, thank you for sharing!


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Myrm...so glad to hear of this very good study technique! I also think it best that your UB reading answer your questions rather than begin taking you all over the text chasing concepts down out of context. I don't know your current set of beliefs or traditions and believe it important that your dedication to the discovery of truth and knowledge guides your study.

But as a former, since childhood, fundamental evangelist church member, I would say this: long before I discovered the UB, even as a child, I came to know that the Bible contains much that is self contradictory and that the Gospel OF Jesus certainly contradicted the "angry god" beliefs of the OT and Paul. I am so thankful for the red letter Bible of my youth to clearly teach me these differences. Biblical scholars teach that there are at least 4 distinct descriptions of "God" in the Bible....2-3 Judaic and 2 Christian. The UB does an excellent job of presenting this evolution of man's understanding of who God is...and God is always greater than humanity's understanding...and never less.


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Myrm wrote:

The end of Paper 4 did make me feel somewhat uncomfortable when it seems to go against the doctrine of Jesus shedding his blood, and dying for us on the Cross. This teaching is one of the most valuable in the Bible, and underpins the whole doctrine of the Christian belief.

Interesting book indeed. “Paper 5 - God’s Relation to the Individual” next.


Hope you enjoy Paper 5 and beyond. Everyone's different it seems. I was very relieved to discover the Atonment Doctrine (God demanding his only son die alone and cruelly on the cross to vindicate sinners) was man-made. I couldn't worship, much less love, such a God. You saw this statement in Paper 4:

...What a travesty upon the infinite character of God! this teaching that his fatherly heart in all its austere coldness and hardness was so untouched by the misfortunes and sorrows of his creatures that his tender mercies were not forthcoming until he saw his blameless Son bleeding and dying upon the cross of Calvary!4:5.6 (60.5)

But may have missed this in Paper 2:

...Righteousness implies that God is the source of the moral law of the universe. Truth exhibits God as a revealer, as a teacher. But love gives and craves affection, seeks understanding fellowship such as exists between parent and child. Righteousness may be the divine thought, but love is a father’s attitude. The erroneous supposition that the righteousness of God was irreconcilable with the selfless love of the heavenly Father, presupposed absence of unity in the nature of Deity and led directly to the elaboration of the atonement doctrine, which is a philosophic assault upon both the unity and the free-willness of God.2:6.5 (41.3)


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Paper 5 - God’s Relation to the Individual

This was an interesting Paper to read as the topic of God’s relationship to us is one that has always been important to me. I often find myself wondering, how can God love me? I fail in my walk with Him everyday!
A paragraph that caught my eye immediately was one in which I was informed that God is not in spiritual hiding (5.1.10), which is something you often hear people ask when they raise the question, Why is God so difficult to find? Why does he seem to be absent? The paragraph goes on to tell me that it is, in fact, man that is hiding themselves away from God. I heard this said, in various forms, many many times in my Christian life, and if I am honest I always saw this as a “cop out” by the Christian; blame everything on the individual struggling to find God. Prayers not being answered? It’s your fault! Not received healing? It’s your fault! God seems so distant? It’s your fault! The Urantia book suggests that it is our own wilful decision to hide ourselves from God, and I certainly do see that in society today.

5.1.9 - Are we “reborn” in each super-universe? If so, do we start off in No.1 as lesser beings than Man, and work our way up through to the seventh super-universe? If so, what’s next?

Going back to paragraph (5.1.10) I highlighted the sentence, Man’s final doom is not sealed until he has lost the power to choose the Father’s will. There is never a closure of the Father’s heart to the need and petition of his children. This is comforting to read as it tells me that no matter how I feel about my performance, so long as I continue to seek God, He will never close the door in my face. This does, however, raise one question for me; what exactly is the Father’s will?

When the mind believes God and the souls knows God, and when, with the fostering Adjuster, they all desire God, then is survival assured. (5.5.13) Another comforting read, especially as he goes on to tell us that nothing about our background, upbringing or circumstances can come between us and God. A question that I have in this paragraph is, Is the “Adjuster” another name for what the Bible calls the Holy Spirit?

(5.6.7) Here I read something that I have always believed as a Christian; that nothing, no other being, force, creator, or agency in all the wide universe of universes can interfere to any degree with the absolute sovereignty of the mortal free will, as it operates within the realms of choice, regarding the eternal destiny of the personality of the choosing mortal.

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Myrm wrote:
...

This does, however, raise one question for me; what exactly is the Father’s will?


And this is the core challenge to all religionists, aside from and above all other spiritual endeavors. Morality directs us until that 'small still voice' that is God's, can be discerned. The daily practice of taking time out for both prayer and worship is effective personally. Of course, each individual must find her or his own way by trail and error. But we can be certain of the assistance of the Spirit of Truth, the Master's bestowed spirit, that also is within. And there are other spiritual influences that make contact with God not so haphazard or confusing.


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One more thought:
If you start reading the Urantia Book while in at least tentative agreement that it is an epochal revelation - then it is unreasonable to assume that what is revealed will validate any preconcieved beliefs. Get ready for new stuff.
If you are looking for validation of old beliefs you may be disappointed.
What does happen to those old beliefs is more like upgrade, enhancement, enlargement and clarification.


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no sophist wrote:
One more thought:
If you start reading the Urantia Book while in at least tentative agreement that it is an epochal revelation - then it is unreasonable to assume that what is revealed will validate any preconcieved beliefs. Get ready for new stuff.
If you are looking for validation of old beliefs you may be disappointed.
What does happen to those old beliefs is more like upgrade, enhancement, enlargement and clarification.


Well....Personally it took multiple years and readings to come to that conclusion. But I can be a little slow....

:wink:


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fanofVan wrote:
no sophist wrote:
One more thought:
If you start reading the Urantia Book while in at least tentative agreement that it is an epochal revelation - then it is unreasonable to assume that what is revealed will validate any preconcieved beliefs. Get ready for new stuff.
If you are looking for validation of old beliefs you may be disappointed.
What does happen to those old beliefs is more like upgrade, enhancement, enlargement and clarification.


Well....Personally it took multiple years and readings to come to that conclusion. But I can be a little slow....

:wink:


Maybe I’m fortunate. Mormonism never did have much meaning or value for me until after reading the Urantia Book.
In hind sight, the one thing that I loved about Mormon church going was singing the hymns. I still do it but minus so many harmonic voices and organ/piano and congregation, something unifying is missing.


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no sophist wrote:

Maybe I’m fortunate. Mormonism never did have much meaning or value for me until after reading the Urantia Book.
In hind sight, the one thing that I loved about Mormon church going was singing the hymns. I still do it but minus so many harmonic voices and organ/piano and congregation, something unifying is missing.


You and I have this in common!

I will say one thing. Growing up Mormon, even from a young age, it never seemed true to me that God would send his beloved son Jesus to die a miserable death on the cross to atone for the sins of all mankind. I knew that even normal / imperfect human parents would not do that to their own child. The UB makes so much more sense to me with regard to Michael's bestowal mission and his acceptance of experiencing the *entire* human lifespan, in all its joys and suffering.


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Paper 6 – The Eternal Son

Well, this Paper shocked me. As far as I was concerned there was God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit; God the Son being Jesus. However, quickly after starting to read Paper 6 I had made a disturbing discovery; The Urantia Book seems to suggest that Jesus (who the Book seems to refer to as “Michael”) is, effectively, the grandson of God the Father. It seems that God the Father created the Eternal Son, who in turn (or in cooperation with God the Father) created the Creator Son. This Creator Son can, himself create other “sons”, but those latter sons cannot create further sons.

I am wondering; who/what are these other “sons”? Are they angels? Are they “mind creatures”, such as humans?

It seems to work like this:

God the Father >> created >> The Eternal Son

Together God the Father and The Eternal Son >> created “Creator Sons”

Creator Sons >> created >> angels/humans.

Is there a separate Creator Son, a “Jesus”, in every inhabited system, or is there one per universe, or even one per super-universe? Vary interesting.

Oh, and I also read that there are ten million inhabited worlds, which I assume are spread out over the seven Super Universes.

This Urantia Book is so interesting.

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Polite Request: The idea behind this journal is three-fold.

1) It helps me organise my reading of the Urantia Book
2) It helps me to sift through all that I am learning and put it into some sort of sensible order, for me at least.
3) To share with those who may be interested in seeing a newcomer’s perspective and take on The Urantia Book.

The questions I raise in this journal are purely in support of point 2 above, kind of like me thinking aloud. They are not raised in the hope that a reader will answer them for me. In fact, I’d rather nobody would publicly try to answer them in this journal, as I wish The Urantia Book to provide me with the answers itself, rather than receive various personal opinions on any given subject. Therefore please could I ask that you do not answer such questions here. There may be a time when I do want to ask a question that I would like answered by the reader, but if that is the case I will make it abundantly apparent that I am asking the audience, as it were. Or I may raise such a question in a different, more appropriate section of the forum.

I have no objection to interested ones making brief and succinct comments on this journal, but I would vary much appreciate it if they could be kept brief and straight to the point. Finally, I would also be grateful if readers did not get into conversations/debates with one another within my journal, as I would not want the journal posts to go off topic. I sincerely hope that the reader will understand, and that I have not caused any offence or upset with these requests. Thank you.

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Last edited by Myrm on Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:21 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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I understand your polite request and will try to comply but I am curious:
Is this why you chose to post on speeches and essays? Your giving a speech or essay as opposed to questioning?
Interesting approach and I’m interested to follow your learning process because I believe you are sincere.

You will come to understand the order of Michaels as you read on, the size and scope of super universes and local creations and their administration are spelled out in detail.

I have a question: why are the concepts you describe, disturbing?


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no sophist wrote:
I understand your polite request and will try to comply but I am curious:
Is this why you chose to post on speeches and essays? Your giving a speech or essay as opposed to questioning?

That is exactly the reason. In the Military I used to give a lot of speeches/public speaking on a weekly basis, so I find it vary comfortable to do it this way.


no sophist wrote:
I have a question: why are the concepts you describe, disturbing?

I have no proplem with people asking me questions in this journal, so ... it makes me disturbed as it’s going against the things I have believed for the last ... oooffff!! many years. :roll:

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Apologies for the misunderstanding. Understood and best wishes. I'll request that my prior posts be deleted. My time to edit has lapsed.

I look forward to following along.


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