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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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brooklyn_born wrote:
The soul is already inserted into the morontial form by the Seraphims. So I do not see a soul invasion. However, the 'resurrection of the unjust' suggests to me another Father fragment or indwelling device can take up residence in the mind and that the soul grows a new personality. This is what I extrapolate from the revelation.


Why? What would be the purpose of putting a new personality into the mind of someone who has chosen to cease existing? It makes no sense. The Father has an unlimited number of fragments to indwell normal mortal beings that are born throughout time and eternity. No need to recycle! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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I am speculating obviously.... Perhaps to give the soul an adjuster better suited or adapted to the soul characteristics that the original adjuster was unable to submit to fusion. Perhaps to PUNISH the soul for destroying its personality through suicide :shock: Perhaps.... perhaps.... perhaps.... You better call Father hotline and ask him yourself! #606!



brooklyn_born wrote:
He is the Father of personalities so he is giving the soul a new personality. This is not a a second chance for the 'old personality.' That personality is no more. I don't recall saying soul grows personality. But if I did, I stand corrected.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
BB wrote, "However, the 'resurrection of the unjust' suggests to me another Father fragment or indwelling device can take up residence in the mind and that the soul grows a new personality. This is what I extrapolate from the revelation."

Let's do a thought experiment and play as if it were true (I don't think it is). If this were true, WHY would the Father wish to entrust a fragment in the mind of a non-survivor? One who has made the choice to cease existing? What would be the point of doing that? Also, I do not believe that personality can be "grown" by the soul. Personality is exclusively bestowed by the Father.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Okay I see where I say "soul grows a new personality." My word choice is faulty. I should say the soul receives a new personality. That is more accurate depiction.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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brooklyn_born wrote:
Okay I see where I say "soul grows a new personality." My word choice is faulty. I should say the soul receives a new personality. That is more accurate depiction.


No it is not...just as false...no soul has ever received a new personality. A total and another contradiction to the very clear and specific text already posted. Good grief.

Where the heck is the woo woo mod?!


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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brooklyn_born wrote:
I am speculating obviously.... Perhaps to give the soul an adjuster better suited or adapted to the soul characteristics that the original adjuster was unable to submit to fusion. Perhaps to PUNISH the soul for destroying its personality through suicide :shock: Perhaps.... perhaps.... perhaps.... You better call Father hotline and ask him yourself! #606!



An "adjuster who was unable to submit to fusion"?!! What a load of crap. Seriously, speculation is fine and dandy but this is pure BS BB.

"Punish"ing a soul?!! It makes absolutely no sense. I'm starting to wonder if you've actually read the book.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Relax I should have said mind that submits to the Adjuster for fusion. As for punish --okay, it is a politically incorrect term among most readers. Let me use the term "teach life lessons" instead. There ya go!

Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
I am speculating obviously.... Perhaps to give the soul an adjuster better suited or adapted to the soul characteristics that the original adjuster was unable to submit to fusion. Perhaps to PUNISH the soul for destroying its personality through suicide :shock: Perhaps.... perhaps.... perhaps.... You better call Father hotline and ask him yourself! #606!



An "adjuster who was unable to submit to fusion"?!! What a load of crap. Seriously, speculation is fine and dandy but this is pure BS BB.

"Punish"ing a soul?!! It makes absolutely no sense. I'm starting to wonder if you've actually read the book.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Agon, punishment is a necessary part of life.

133:1.2 (1469.1) “Ganid, it is true, you do not understand. Mercy ministry is always the work of the individual, but justice punishment is the function of ... universe administrative groups. ... In ... an organized universe the administration of justice presupposes the passing of just sentence consequent upon fair judgment, and such prerogatives are vested in the juridical groups of the worlds and in the all-knowing administrators of the higher universes of all creation.”

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Well sure! It is a part of mortal life. It is not something that happens to a soul, though. There is no 'punishment' in the mansion worlds or resurrection halls. Judgment: yes. Punishment: no. Our choices put us on the path of an ascension career in eternity; or on the path to cessation of existence. No punishment necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Well, what happened to all the unfused mortals of the lower mansions who swung their support behind Lucifer, since you say punishment is a no-no in the mansion world?
Image





Agon D. Onter wrote:
Well sure! It is a part of mortal life. It is not something that happens to a soul, though. There is no 'punishment' in the mansion worlds or resurrection halls. Judgment: yes. Punishment: no. Our choices put us on the path of an ascension career in eternity; or on the path to cessation of existence. No punishment necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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They CHOSE. They were even offered mercy. Some of them REFUSED it. Everything that happened to them was what they asked for by their knowing choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Lmfao! make up your mind bros. Is there punishment or is there no punishment? And while you're at it, explain the function of a prison world.

Image


Agon D. Onter wrote:
They CHOSE. They were even offered mercy. Some of them REFUSED it. Everything that happened to them was what they asked for by their knowing choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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The prison worlds are part of the system of justice. I said there IS judgment. The function of the prison worlds, as you would well know if you have read the book, is to keep the rebels separated and interned away from other beings so as not to spread the Rebellion. It is also to serve as an example / precedent of what happens when one CHOOSES to pursue a path of evil.

Quote:
53:9.8 (611.7) But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth “that the way of the transgressor is hard”; “that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction”; that “the wages of sin is death.”


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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brooklyn_born wrote:
You can quote revelations till the cows come home but it means nothing to me if I do not know how you interpret them. Hell! I can train monkey to cut and paste quotes! foV you have a habit of spamming threads with revelation quotes without an interpretation. I wind up skipping over those posts. BTW, I took you off time out :badgrin:


Quote:
Forgot...you are not reading my posts....pity...lots of good quotes there! 8)



So you do not read that text which corrects and contradicts your false claims? Telling. I would surmise as much. For, as I've said here before, not everyone who attends or posts here has any interest in learning anything at all about the UB or its contents. They are here for other reasons.


No, you are determined to twist and torment the text by claiming Adjusters fail and souls are punished?


To claim Adjusters fail is to claim that God fails (please note that all text posted by me is for the benefit of those who are sincere in their intention to learn about the UB - which obviously excludes some here by their own choice and words - sometimes someone comes to this forum to simply offer contrast and contradiction to the UB and while they are not here to learn and while it is futile to attempt any persuasion toward their prejudice, nonetheless such contrast and contradiction can be useful as an aid to the study by and learning of those sincere students who are here to seek understanding and to learn the teachings of the Papers - for that am I thankful! And this works well until such voices of contradiction and false declarations are met by the acquiescent silence of the community - then confusion reigns as the objective of some who post such contradictions - just sayin'....):

107:1.2 (1177.3) Though there are diverse opinions regarding the mode of the bestowal of Thought Adjusters, there exist no such differences concerning their origin; all are agreed that they proceed direct from the Universal Father, the First Source and Center. They are not created beings; they are fragmentized entities constituting the factual presence of the infinite God. Together with their many unrevealed associates, the Adjusters are undiluted and unmixed divinity, unqualified and unattenuated parts of Deity; they are of God, and as far as we are able to discern, they are God.


107:3.9 (1180.2) The valor and wisdom exhibited by Thought Adjusters suggest that they have undergone a training of tremendous scope and range. Since they are not personalities, this training must be imparted in the educational institutions of Divinington. The unique Personalized Adjusters no doubt constitute the personnel of the Adjuster training schools of Divinington. And we do know that this central and supervising corps is presided over by the now Personalized Adjuster of the first Paradise Son of the Michael order to complete his sevenfold bestowal upon the races and peoples of his universe realms.

107:4.3 (1180.6) No Adjuster has ever been disloyal to the Paradise Father; the lower orders of personal creatures may sometimes have to contend with disloyal fellows, but never the Adjusters; they are supreme and infallible in their supernal sphere of creature ministry and universe function.

107:6.2 (1182.4) The Adjuster is man’s eternity possibility; man is the Adjuster’s personality possibility. Your individual Adjusters work to spiritize you in the hope of eternalizing your temporal identity. The Adjusters are saturated with the beautiful and self-bestowing love of the Father of spirits. They truly and divinely love you; they are the prisoners of spirit hope confined within the minds of men. They long for the divinity attainment of your mortal minds that their loneliness may end, that they may be delivered with you from the limitations of material investiture and the habiliments of time.

108:0.2 (1185.2) Nothing in the entire universe can substitute for the fact of experience on nonexistential levels. The infinite God is, as always, replete and complete, infinitely inclusive of all things except evil and creature experience. God cannot do wrong; he is infallible. God cannot experientially know what he has never personally experienced; God’s preknowledge is existential. Therefore does the spirit of the Father descend from Paradise to participate with finite mortals in every bona fide experience of the ascending career; it is only by such a method that the existential God could become in truth and in fact man’s experiential Father. The infinity of the eternal God encompasses the potential for finite experience, which indeed becomes actual in the ministry of the Adjuster fragments that actually share the life vicissitude experiences of human beings.

108:5.3 (1191.4) One thing you can depend upon: The Adjusters will never lose anything committed to their care; never have we known these spirit helpers to default. Angels and other high types of spirit beings, not excepting the local universe type of Sons, may occasionally embrace evil, may sometimes depart from the divine way, but Adjusters never falter. They are absolutely dependable, and this is equally true of all seven groups.

108:5.10 (1192.5) If you have a personal guardian of destiny and should fail of survival, that guardian angel must be adjudicated in order to receive vindication as to the faithful execution of her trust. But Thought Adjusters are not thus subjected to examination when their subjects fail to survive. We all know that, while an angel might possibly fall short of the perfection of ministry, Thought Adjusters work in the manner of Paradise perfection; their ministry is characterized by a flawless technique which is beyond the possibility of criticism by any being outside of Divinington. You have perfect guides; therefore is the goal of perfection certainly attainable.

108:6.5 (1193.4) These faithful custodians of the future career unfailingly duplicate every mental creation with a spiritual counterpart; they are thus slowly and surely re-creating you as you really are (only spiritually) for resurrection on the survival worlds. And all of these exquisite spirit re-creations are being preserved in the emerging reality of your evolving and immortal soul, your morontia self. These realities are actually there, notwithstanding that the Adjuster is seldom able to exalt these duplicate creations sufficiently to exhibit them to the light of consciousness.

108:6.6 (1193.5) And as you are the human parent, so is the Adjuster the divine parent of the real you, your higher and advancing self, your better morontial and future spiritual self. And it is this evolving morontial soul that the judges and censors discern when they decree your survival and pass you upward to new worlds and never-ending existence in eternal liaison with your faithful partner—God, the Adjuster.


Me here: As to the false claims of the author of this topic, there has never been and can never be "soul possession". This has never ever happened at any time anywhere under any circumstances. Forget about it!


Some material minds have been weak enough and foolish enough to allow or even request the influence of rebellious celestials. Only rebelious celestials would ever attempt such a horrific violation of personal sovereignty. Not normal. But this would be a base and weak mind engaging a sinful and iniquitous being.

The birth of soul means that the mind is now indwelt by the God Fragment and the soul cannot be violated by deception or by choice...there exists a barrier and sanctity that is enforced by God - the giver and protector of free will. No evil spirit ever influences any soul or can make any soul choose against its own volition and free will. The mortal mind is the same way since Pentacost. So NO!!!! Souls cannot be possessed. Minds cannot be possessed. The whole question is an absurdity reflecting ignorance and defiance of the Urantia Papers. Fear Not.

As to souls being punished....oh dear. What a primitive superstition. The UB teaches this is a foolish falsehood and a horrific picture and presumption of God which defies and defiles the relationship of God and creature in the universe which is based on paternal love, endearing affection, patience, mercy ministry, kindness, fairness, and justice which cannot even be fathomed by such as we are...and yet God gives even us sublime assurance of this love. This is the core of the Jesusonian Gospel and the good news in this Revelation as well.


For any so called student to here declare that God punishes soul is the very height of callous disregard for truth and for reality. And such a voice should be rejected in all opinions and declarations which thusly dirctly contradict the Good News Jesus delivered unto this world. A vile claim. And still....no mods..... :?

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Come on, my dude. I gave you the quote, already. Punishment and justice go HAND IN HAND. Here it is again.

Quote:
133:1.2 (1469.1) “Ganid, it is true, you do not understand. Mercy ministry is always the work of the individual, but justice punishment is the function of ... universe administrative groups.....”


IN BIG BLOCK LETTERS:

JUSTICE PUNISHMENT

Go ahead! Twist that! I dare ya! Double dare ya!


Image

brooklyn_born wrote:
Agon, punishment is a necessary part of life.

133:1.2 (1469.1) “Ganid, it is true, you do not understand. Mercy ministry is always the work of the individual, but justice punishment is the function of ... universe administrative groups. ... In ... an organized universe the administration of justice presupposes the passing of just sentence consequent upon fair judgment, and such prerogatives are vested in the juridical groups of the worlds and in the all-knowing administrators of the higher universes of all creation.”

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Here you go with making personal your responses. You could not even last a couple days. I got to put you back on punishment.

Image


fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
You can quote revelations till the cows come home but it means nothing to me if I do not know how you interpret them. Hell! I can train monkey to cut and paste quotes! foV you have a habit of spamming threads with revelation quotes without an interpretation. I wind up skipping over those posts. BTW, I took you off time out :badgrin:


Quote:
Forgot...you are not reading my posts....pity...lots of good quotes there! 8)



So you do not read that text which corrects and contradicts your false claims? Telling. I would surmise as much. For, as I've said here before, not everyone who attends or posts here has any interest in learning anything at all about the UB or its contents. They are here for other reasons.


No, you are determined to twist and torment the text by claiming Adjusters fail and souls are punished?


To claim Adjusters fail is to claim that God fails (please note that all text posted by me is for the benefit of those who are sincere in their intention to learn about the UB - which obviously excludes some here by their own choice and words - sometimes someone comes to this forum to simply offer contrast and contradiction to the UB and while they are not here to learn and while it is futile to attempt any persuasion toward their prejudice, nonetheless such contrast and contradiction can be useful as an aid to the study by and learning of those sincere students who are here to seek understanding and to learn the teachings of the Papers - for that am I thankful! And this works well until such voices of contradiction and false declarations are met by the acquiescent silence of the community - then confusion reigns as the objective of some who post such contradictions - just sayin'....):

107:1.2 (1177.3) Though there are diverse opinions regarding the mode of the bestowal of Thought Adjusters, there exist no such differences concerning their origin; all are agreed that they proceed direct from the Universal Father, the First Source and Center. They are not created beings; they are fragmentized entities constituting the factual presence of the infinite God. Together with their many unrevealed associates, the Adjusters are undiluted and unmixed divinity, unqualified and unattenuated parts of Deity; they are of God, and as far as we are able to discern, they are God.


107:3.9 (1180.2) The valor and wisdom exhibited by Thought Adjusters suggest that they have undergone a training of tremendous scope and range. Since they are not personalities, this training must be imparted in the educational institutions of Divinington. The unique Personalized Adjusters no doubt constitute the personnel of the Adjuster training schools of Divinington. And we do know that this central and supervising corps is presided over by the now Personalized Adjuster of the first Paradise Son of the Michael order to complete his sevenfold bestowal upon the races and peoples of his universe realms.

107:4.3 (1180.6) No Adjuster has ever been disloyal to the Paradise Father; the lower orders of personal creatures may sometimes have to contend with disloyal fellows, but never the Adjusters; they are supreme and infallible in their supernal sphere of creature ministry and universe function.

107:6.2 (1182.4) The Adjuster is man’s eternity possibility; man is the Adjuster’s personality possibility. Your individual Adjusters work to spiritize you in the hope of eternalizing your temporal identity. The Adjusters are saturated with the beautiful and self-bestowing love of the Father of spirits. They truly and divinely love you; they are the prisoners of spirit hope confined within the minds of men. They long for the divinity attainment of your mortal minds that their loneliness may end, that they may be delivered with you from the limitations of material investiture and the habiliments of time.

108:0.2 (1185.2) Nothing in the entire universe can substitute for the fact of experience on nonexistential levels. The infinite God is, as always, replete and complete, infinitely inclusive of all things except evil and creature experience. God cannot do wrong; he is infallible. God cannot experientially know what he has never personally experienced; God’s preknowledge is existential. Therefore does the spirit of the Father descend from Paradise to participate with finite mortals in every bona fide experience of the ascending career; it is only by such a method that the existential God could become in truth and in fact man’s experiential Father. The infinity of the eternal God encompasses the potential for finite experience, which indeed becomes actual in the ministry of the Adjuster fragments that actually share the life vicissitude experiences of human beings.

108:5.3 (1191.4) One thing you can depend upon: The Adjusters will never lose anything committed to their care; never have we known these spirit helpers to default. Angels and other high types of spirit beings, not excepting the local universe type of Sons, may occasionally embrace evil, may sometimes depart from the divine way, but Adjusters never falter. They are absolutely dependable, and this is equally true of all seven groups.

108:5.10 (1192.5) If you have a personal guardian of destiny and should fail of survival, that guardian angel must be adjudicated in order to receive vindication as to the faithful execution of her trust. But Thought Adjusters are not thus subjected to examination when their subjects fail to survive. We all know that, while an angel might possibly fall short of the perfection of ministry, Thought Adjusters work in the manner of Paradise perfection; their ministry is characterized by a flawless technique which is beyond the possibility of criticism by any being outside of Divinington. You have perfect guides; therefore is the goal of perfection certainly attainable.

108:6.5 (1193.4) These faithful custodians of the future career unfailingly duplicate every mental creation with a spiritual counterpart; they are thus slowly and surely re-creating you as you really are (only spiritually) for resurrection on the survival worlds. And all of these exquisite spirit re-creations are being preserved in the emerging reality of your evolving and immortal soul, your morontia self. These realities are actually there, notwithstanding that the Adjuster is seldom able to exalt these duplicate creations sufficiently to exhibit them to the light of consciousness.

108:6.6 (1193.5) And as you are the human parent, so is the Adjuster the divine parent of the real you, your higher and advancing self, your better morontial and future spiritual self. And it is this evolving morontial soul that the judges and censors discern when they decree your survival and pass you upward to new worlds and never-ending existence in eternal liaison with your faithful partner—God, the Adjuster.


Me here: As to the false claims of the author of this topic, there has never been and can never be "soul possession". This has never ever happened at any time anywhere under any circumstances. Forget about it!


Some material minds have been weak enough and foolish enough to allow or even request the influence of rebellious celestials. Only rebelious celestials would ever attempt such a horrific violation of personal sovereignty. Not normal. But this would be a base and weak mind engaging a sinful and iniquitous being.

The birth of soul means that the mind is now indwelt by the God Fragment and the soul cannot be violated by deception or by choice...there exists a barrier and sanctity that is enforced by God - the giver and protector of free will. No evil spirit ever influences any soul or can make any soul choose against its own volition and free will. The mortal mind is the same way since Pentacost. So NO!!!! Souls cannot be possessed. Minds cannot be possessed. The whole question is an absurdity reflecting ignorance and defiance of the Urantia Papers. Fear Not.

As to souls being punished....oh dear. What a primitive superstition. The UB teaches this is a foolish falsehood and a horrific picture and presumption of God which defies and defiles the relationship of God and creature in the universe which is based on paternal love, endearing affection, patience, mercy ministry, kindness, fairness, and justice which cannot even be fathomed by such as we are...and yet God gives even us sublime assurance of this love. This is the core of the Jesusonian Gospel and the good news in this Revelation as well.


For any so called student to here declare that God punishes soul is the very height of callous disregard for truth and for reality. And such a voice should be rejected in all opinions and declarations which thusly dirctly contradict the Good News Jesus delivered unto this world. A vile claim. And still....no mods..... :?

=; :-$ :!:

_________________
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