Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:57 am +0000

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » Main » Questions & Answers

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 2
  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
  Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 937
Location: Brooklyn NY
Hey Mary,

Lucifer's sophistries did make their way to Urantia. Here is one good reference in addition to yours:

Quote:
53:7.2 (607.3) Throughout this period Caligastia was advocating the cause of Lucifer on Urantia. The Melchizedeks ably opposed the apostate Planetary Prince, but the sophistries of unbridled liberty and the delusions of self-assertion had every opportunity for deceiving the primitive peoples of a young and undeveloped world.




maryjo606 wrote:
Jumping in here just because I was really interested in just how/whether those people were affected by the rebellion and Lucifer's sophistries. Here's a section that describes the aftermath of Caligastia's betrayal - certainly a part of Lucifer's rebellion - and its effects on some of the mortals of those times:

https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-67-the-planetary-rebellion#U67_5_1

in which we read:

Quote:
67:5.2 Very soon after the rebellion the entire staff of sedition were engaged in energetic defense of the city against the hordes of semisavages who besieged its walls as a result of the doctrines of liberty which had been prematurely taught them.

_________________
BB, the Urantian Gnostic606
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3775
pethuel wrote:
I work as an English coach for executives and also handle translations. Yesterday I received a project for translation and as I began to do a revision of the English (a book that will be available in two languages) I was shocked by the implications of what I was reading. I don't know exactly how to present this but here goes:

The book is a collection of scholarly articles discussing the possibilities and potential of multiple identities existing by means of virtual reality, and the definition of "reality" in the light (or dark) of digital technology. I can't help but think that at least one group of people is supporting this idea of a sort of "master avatar" that is a digital entity. As a former Bible prophecy student I came to the conclusion that Satan ( I speak in traditional evangelical terms here) has no creative power and therefore attempts to imitate God's creation, therefore Satan's realm is a counterfeit of God's attributes and that the mark of the beast spoken of in Revelation is what gives access to the counterfeit virtual reality of Satan's kingdom. The ultimate "hard token" if you will. The beast and the false prophet of Revelation 11 -19 are (by the teaching I received) the counterfeit of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and the image of the beast the ubiquitous computer or smart phone screen, the "Black Mirror". Anyway, I do not preach this stuff since the Papers don't dwell on it, but as I mentioned elsewhere, I lived in this stuff for 25 years and it is hard for me not to believe that the world is run by a group of people totally dedicated to a centralized digitally controlled reality. No matter what it is still a temporal existence, be it virtual or not.

Now perhaps this is not a bad thing, IF that is the next step to Urantia being settled in light and life. But I suspect otherwise, not in a negative doomsday sense, but in the sense that this counterfeit virtual reality is the darkest hour before a bright and glorious dawn!

My first examinations of the Urantia Book were a disappointment in one sense because I had hoped for a clearer explanation of Revelation and discovered the Urantia Book doesn't dwell on it, and barely mentions it. Yet learning that Urantia has loving caretakers and monitors such as Machiventa Melchizidek certainly alleviates concerns about a so called antichrist world government and coming great tribulation and other catastrophic events described in the visions of Revelation, yet I am still separating the wheat from the chaff of former teachings and learnings.

So much was about to happen when the Papers were given, mankind was on the brink of great and terrible discoveries with the potential to destroy everything, and considering the mentality of some of the earth's rulers it is amazing that they haven't done worse.
I can only credit the intervention of the Most Highs or their representatives in preventing the extinction of the light of life on Urantia.

Is this worth discussing here in the forum or is it unnecessary? Thanks!



I addressed the UB text about the Book of Revelations and my opinions on its effects on Christianity. So the UB teaches that there is no "mirror" or reflection or reflectivity of rebellion anywhere today or to come. It is over. It is done. It's repercussions are contained and subsiding. And the mercy ministry and time lag of justice has proved to have delivered far more good in its effects and inoculation than all the evil experienced and all the suffering caused by the one time rebellion.

Should also say that this Book of Revelation (based on an actual personal revelation of a concurrent event and time and place as when the personal revelation was experienced - meaning it actually had nothing whatsoever to do with the future or any future at all!) turned into a prophetic fable of the end times has not only set some people's expectations for the planet's future but have also set specific points of resistance, especially regarding anything that encourages globalism and international homogenization....including the UN, World Trade Organization(s), World Bank(s), Global Human Rights Orgs., etc. Such folks are now beginning to see the potential, even inevitable, results of the digital revolution and its ability to inform, unite, and mobilize people around the world....in wonderful ways regarding disaster response and relief (in some cases) and in dangerous ways to some special interests and entrenched power centers/forces. Politics is now founded upon and influenced by this false fable and primitive superstition.


We have to remember that the 666 and Mark of the Beast and Armageddon crowd is a subset within Christianity (and with certain pagans and other conspiracy theorists) and does not represent all or even perhaps a majority of this non-homogeneous group. There are many different beliefs regarding what the definition of the Mark actually is in Christianity and the pagan numerological "meanings" of 666 (or 616) - neither of which has anything at all to do with either our planet or Satan or Lucifer - pure mythological inventions as distortions of our planetary sequence # in the order of inhabited worlds in our local system - the six hundred and sixth planet to be deemed inhabited! But for the Armageddon crowd, the digital revolution is or will become a real symbol of social "decay" and globalization and definitive steps toward the end of the world.

An interesting and ironic element to end of the world believers is the obvious fact that if today is not the end of the world, it is one day closer TO the end of the world!! And to such ones, everything that happens becomes some sort of "sign" of the end of days. Whether good news or bad news, all news is news about the coming end!! And it is by such an expectation and deep anxiety that whole perspectives are formed and philosophies of living are created - all based on this unshakable belief in the end of days. We have several such believers among us here!

For a better understanding of the issue and to identify those among us here who support and promote such myths, readers here may wish to visit these very popular and trending topics at TruthBook:

The Urantia Book and The New World Order viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4628

What Really is Going On In Our World Right Now? viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5371

Nationalism vs. Globalization: Globalism and the Urantia Book viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5350

Your interest in the Most Highs is commendable and recommended. Here's a link to the results of a keyword search for "Most Highs":

https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

There are those students among us who could truly benefit by such study for they seem always to have anxieties and the mistaken opinion that Urantia suffers from a lack of governance, leadership, attention, progress, etc. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is completely contrary to and a contradiction of the UB to promote such anxieties. We are a beloved world receiving intensive attention and being guided through the Mortal Epochs of Time in ways which are amazingly effective and in response to unique challenges that are being well managed by those who lead us forward into our certain destiny!!

114:4.1 The sovereignty of Urantia is further complicated by the onetime arbitrary seizure of planetary authority by the government of Norlatiadek shortly after the planetary rebellion. There is still resident on Urantia a Vorondadek Son, an observer for the Most Highs of Edentia and, in the absence of direct action by Michael, trustee of planetary sovereignty. The present Most High observer (and sometime regent) is the twenty-third thus to serve on Urantia.

114:4.2 There are certain groups of planetary problems which are still under the control of the Most Highs of Edentia, jurisdiction over them having been seized at the time of the Lucifer rebellion. Authority in these matters is exercised by a Vorondadek Son, the Norlatiadek observer, who maintains very close advisory relations with the planetary supervisors. The race commissioners are very active on Urantia, and their various group chiefs are informally attached to the resident Vorondadek observer, who acts as their advisory director.

114:4.3 In a crisis the actual and sovereign head of the government, excepting in certain purely spiritual matters, would be this Vorondadek Son of Edentia now on observation duty. (In these exclusively spiritual problems and in certain purely personal matters, the supreme authority seems to be vested in the commanding archangel attached to the divisional headquarters of that order which was recently established on Urantia.)

114:4.4 A Most High observer is empowered, at his discretion, to seize the planetary government in times of grave planetary crises, and it is of record that this has happened thirty-three times in the history of Urantia. At such times the Most High observer functions as the Most High regent, exercising unquestioned authority over all ministers and administrators resident on the planet excepting only the divisional organization of the archangels.

114:4.5 Vorondadek regencies are not peculiar to rebellion-isolated planets, for the Most Highs may intervene at any time in the affairs of the inhabited worlds, interposing the superior wisdom of the constellation rulers in the affairs of the kingdoms of men.


:wink: :biggrin: 8) :idea: :!:
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1005
Location: Nanticoke NY
The Book of Revelations supports the homogenization of the spiritual brotherhood of all world citizens who have endured the tribulations mentioned therein. It is said that the Children of God is who will emerge from the end of times.

I think Pethuel is using "the Black Mirror" as a metaphor for the tools that the global state uses to gain information in its census. The way that expressions are nowadays recorded for the public edifice, pass through "the Black Mirror" and are known by all.

Reflectivity is a supernal concept which does not find similitude in the global infrastructure. I believe that we would need to understand how "mind-values" could be retained and preserved. For instance, Majeston is the master of reflectivity. Majeston is not simply reflectivating with a projector screen. Reflectivity is a process able to collect perfect impression of the reality to be portrayed. And also the simultaneous rerepresentation of one environment in the other place. Maybe it is like an elevator, bringing one plane of existence onto the same stage as another. But there are so many things we do not know about it.

Maybe when you video-conference with your friends and grandchildren. You feel like you are connected because your minds are both seeing the picture of each other and hearing the sound of each other. But if there is a connection, it was a preexistent relationship in your heart perhaps, or perhaps a transfixational delusion. But I would say the actual aspect of reflectivity exists within the human mind rather than the technology we have installed.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:21 am +0000
Posts: 951
uhm a few points to consider:

digital technology isnt a counterfeit reality anymore than our analog tools were...it just does a better job at modeling reality that gives that impression to some. but personal relationships are always real regardless of the medium

the lucifer manifesto represents not an alternate reality, but an unreality...an existence outside the flow of the cosmos.

the "mark of the beast", the unspiritual attributes of mortal planetary life, exist regardless of any rebellion and on planets not affected by rebellion

most of the "end time" events tossed around in modern christian eschatology occured shortly after michael left...the end of the covenant with the jews.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 937
Location: Brooklyn NY
Hey Malaku,

Do you think history repeats itself?



Makalu wrote:
uhm a few points to consider:

digital technology isnt a counterfeit reality anymore than our analog tools were...it just does a better job at modeling reality that gives that impression to some. but personal relationships are always real regardless of the medium

the lucifer manifesto represents not an alternate reality, but an unreality...an existence outside the flow of the cosmos.

the "mark of the beast", the unspiritual attributes of mortal planetary life, exist regardless of any rebellion and on planets not affected by rebellion

most of the "end time" events tossed around in modern christian eschatology occured shortly after michael left...the end of the covenant with the jews.

_________________
BB, the Urantian Gnostic606
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:21 am +0000
Posts: 951
no, i don't think history repeats itself
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3775
That makes two of us....so far. Oh yeah...and the Papers confirm this fact of course.

Indeed the authors claim the accuracy of the historical record provided of Urantia, the rebellion, and the universe of universe's will stand the test of time...as written and presented. Despite the declarations, doubts, and suspicions of some...here or anywhere.
8)
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 937
Location: Brooklyn NY
How many rebellions were there in our universe?


Makalu wrote:
no, i don't think history repeats itself

_________________
BB, the Urantian Gnostic606
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3775
2 out of 10,000 Systems. Why?


Last edited by fanofVan on Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:44 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:21 am +0000
Posts: 951
brooklyn_born wrote:
How many rebellions were there in our universe?


Makalu wrote:
no, i don't think history repeats itself


well each rebellion will have it's own unique history
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 937
Location: Brooklyn NY
This is true. However, since our universe has a history of rebellions, it could be said rebellions have repeated themselves in Nebadon. I have a confession to make, Makalu. I literally forgot why I brought this up! lmao. Sorry about that. Something you said in a previous missive(s) triggered that response in me. I will have to go back and reread your replies and, hopefully, find the statement that sparked that reply in me.


Makalu wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
How many rebellions were there in our universe?


Makalu wrote:
no, i don't think history repeats itself


well each rebellion will have it's own unique history

_________________
BB, the Urantian Gnostic606
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3775
Researched correction (08/31/2018):

There have been 3 System Sovereign rebellions (10,000 Systems) and "several" Planetary Prince rebellions (10,000,000 inhabited worlds) in the history of Nebadon. No beings created higher than the Lanonandeks have ever rebelled or been found in contempt. The cause of rebellion is primarily Spiritual Pride as described in the UB and is a result of free will, immaturity, lack of universe experience, lack of faith, and the errors of self importance....or so the UB teaches. Those Sons who are created nearest to mortals are the most susceptible to such errors. It is not reflectivity or infectious or inherent or repeating itself....none of those. Each instance is unique and its own event in time which is overwhelmed, eventually and certainly, by universal love of the Creators.


Apologies for the inaccuracy and misinformation posted originally!

53:0.2 (601.2) In the universe of Nebadon, the domain of Christ Michael, there are ten thousand systems of inhabited worlds. In all the history of Lanonandek Sons, in all their work throughout these thousands of systems and at the universe headquarters, only three System Sovereigns have ever been found in contempt of the government of the Creator Son.

50:1.3 (572.5) Being quite alone as representatives of divinity on the individual planets, these Sons are tested severely, and Nebadon has suffered the misfortune of several rebellions. In the creation of the System Sovereigns and the Planetary Princes there occurs the personalization of a concept that has been getting farther and farther away from the Universal Father and the Eternal Son, and there is an increasing danger of losing the sense of proportion as to one’s self-importance and a greater likelihood of failure to keep a proper grasp of the values and relationships of the numerous orders of divine beings and their gradations of authority. That the Father is not personally present in the local universe also imposes a certain test of faith and loyalty on all these Sons.

35:8.1 (392.1) After the creation of the Vorondadeks, the Creator Son and the Universe Mother Spirit unite for the purpose of bringing into existence the third order of universe sonship, the Lanonandeks. Although occupied with varied tasks connected with the system administrations, they are best known as System Sovereigns, the rulers of the local systems, and as Planetary Princes, the administrative heads of the inhabited worlds.

35:8.15 (392.15) Since Lanonandeks are a somewhat lower order of sonship than the Melchizedeks and the Vorondadeks, they are of even greater service in the subordinate units of the universe, for they are capable of drawing nearer the lower creatures of the intelligent races. They also stand in greater danger of going astray, of departing from the acceptable technique of universe government. But these Lanonandeks, especially the primary order, are the most able and versatile of all local universe administrators. In executive ability they are excelled only by Gabriel and his unrevealed associates.

35:9.6 (393.6) Our local universe has been unfortunate in that over seven hundred Sons of the Lanonandek order have rebelled against the universe government, thus precipitating confusion in several systems and on numerous planets. Of this entire number of failures only three were System Sovereigns; practically all of these Sons belonged to the second and third orders, Planetary Princes and tertiary Lanonandeks.

35:9.7 (393.7) The large number of these Sons who have lapsed from integrity does not indicate any fault in creatorship. They could have been made divinely perfect, but they were so created that they might better understand, and draw near to, the evolutionary creatures dwelling on the worlds of time and space.

35:9.8 (393.8) Of all the local universes in Orvonton, our universe has, with the exception of Henselon, lost the largest number of this order of Sons. On Uversa it is the consensus that we have had so much administrative trouble in Nebadon because our Sons of the Lanonandek order have been created with such a large degree of personal liberty in choosing and planning. I do not make this observation by way of criticism. The Creator of our universe has full authority and power to do this. It is the contention of our high rulers that, while such free-choosing Sons make excessive trouble in the earlier ages of the universe, when things are fully sifted and finally settled, the gains of higher loyalty and fuller volitional service on the part of these thoroughly tested Sons will far more than compensate for the confusion and tribulations of earlier times.

Finally, apologies to pethuel if we have gotten too far off track here for BB's sake. BB has stated he believes there are factual errors in the UB related to the rebellion story but offers no evidence but his own opinion. BB has also claimed that the rebellion continues and still gathers victims and supporters despite the UB's assertions which contradict such claims. BB also claims the Devil is responsible for the woes of this world by his nefarious schemes and powers but the UB teaches the Devil can do little and nearly all our troubles originate in unwise and immature personal choices which, in aggregate, deliver our personal and planetary realities. Free will determines its own repercussions.

The UB teaches that while there are still echoes of repercussions locally by this long ago rebellion, that our planetary rulers and System rulers and Universe rulers and administrators at every level are very capably overcoming and reversing all ill effects of this event, now enjoying over 1000 times the blessings and benefits more than all suffering and repercussions. This is the power of a love-based universe "economy" whereby evil and sin are met with love and kindness and patience and mercy....and this reality and it results are apparent to all who witness and participate thereby. All of us will come to understand this as well - by these Papers of historical record and universe reality for those who discover them and believe them or in time to come by future teachers and education!

Thanks again for such an interesting topic pethuel!!

8)
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:14 am +0000
Posts: 174
I have been following this exchange with great interest and I have learned a lot. For example, if these System Sovereigns have strayed, how much more some of Urantia's mere political leaders and/or business giants!

Personally I doubt that more of these higher entities have jumped on to Lucifer's sunken ship, but I have no doubt that there are men and women sold out to his ideas, who consider Jesus' virtues as weakness and Lucifer's iniquitous vices as virtues! In my also a tadpole's opinion it is perfectly conceivable that these folks could, in Illuminati style, seek to control the world financial system. For some strange reason they use wealth as a measure of power and it appears that their oligarchy has indeed gained the upper hand, and the buying and trading of politicians and other public figures seems to be a sport.

Although I am not a conspiracy theorist, I am a bit of a conspiracy realist, i.e., if I was an ultra-rich power player I would probably want to hang with like minded folks, and in the course of events may be tempted to join forces with them to control the world's destiny, population, weather, food production and distribution, energy production and distribution and the news and information media that controls the masses. Not that these are bad goals, but if they are controlled by clever but unworthy Luciferian types, well...
If these people do exist I see no other way to dislodge them from their perch other than their self destructive system collapsing on the sands of sophistry on which it is built, or the direct intervention of Michael and His agents in order to preserve the light of life.
This is what prompted my original question regarding technology and the so-called mark of the beast.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3775
Astute and wise observations!!

Such outcomes as you describe are normal on all evolutionary material worlds. Wisdom and maturity and progress are earned, painfully so as we are taught in the UB. Love of self and self importance are a function of the animal nature (one of our two natures) and also, evidently, can arise out of spiritual pride combined with impatience and inexperience and lost faith (per the Lucifer, Satan, and Caligastia examples).

I am a big believer in conspiracy! But only one...the conspiracy of power! The more one has the more addictive it becomes. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The more power mortals have, the more corrupt they so often become. This is the corruption and the conspiracy that delays progress and must be overcome by more and more people on every world. And this happens by on-planet examples and leadership (when it is present) but also by the angels and the ministering Spirits within each mortal being.

That's why our world continues to progress and succeed in our epochal progress in time!! For there is an even bigger and more powerful conspiracy that delivers the inevitability of Light and Life to every world....the conspiracy of Divinity and the hosts of heaven!! And no evil or sin or iniquity can overwhelm or overcome or be victorious in the face of this onslaught of love, mercy, patience, and truth and beauty and goodness!!

I agree there is a remnant repercussional effect from the rebellion. It's called False Liberty in the UB. The belief that my liberty is more important than yours! Such beliefs still deliver repercussions to learn from!

8)
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:14 am +0000
Posts: 174
Normal evolutionary problems...yes i agree. A wise man told me once "Let the politicians do what they do, our goal is to provide a sweet perfume unto Him" praise, worship and love draw others towards Him. Once they get close enough then it is up to them, regardless of who is in the government or holding the key to the internet or whatever. These subscribers to the Lucifer Manifesto may hear the loud pop and reject the lie, embrace the truth and still accomplish great things, it will all come out in the wash.

Thanks everyone! My questions are pretty much answered and I am ready to move on.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 2
  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Board index » Main » Questions & Answers

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: No registered users

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Switch to mobile style
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group