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 Post subject: Personality issues
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Persistence of personality? If a person is neurotic (a personality type), i.e. has higher than normal anxiety, depression, negativity, etc. are they doomed to have this for age upon age until spirit status attainment? That level of suffering for so long would seem to be unfair compared to others who do not have this or any other malady.


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Heavy Metal 1 wrote:
Persistence of personality? If a person is neurotic (a personality type), i.e. has higher than normal anxiety, depression, negativity, etc. are they doomed to have this for age upon age until spirit status attainment? That level of suffering for so long would seem to be unfair compared to others who do not have this or any other malady.


Greetings HM1!! Welcome back! A most interesting question......

The short answer is no, such a person is not "doomed" for age upon age. The electro/chemical/bio brain and not the personality itself is the source of all such mental or emotional disorders...whether delivered by heredity/genetics, environment/diet/poison, injury/trauma, or family/tribal/societal sources - no matter the source or cause of such neurosis, it is not related to our soul or our spiritual potential...or even our material death survival potential....or so I understand the UB to teach.

We fuse with the Thought Adjuster in the Local Universe, long before our Paradise adventure and "Spirit Status Attainment". Prior to fusion, we have evolved and progressed and transcended far beyond all the vestiges of our animal/material, bio/chemical natures. Prior to fusion we must willingly begin to transfer the seat of our personal identity from the material self (one of the natural and inherent of our dual natures) to the other nature - the spiritual nature long before fusion in the circles progress of identity transfer. Such mental and emotional deficiencies will be corrected and eliminated in the material life or in the mansion world experience (the precise purpose of the mansion worlds).

47:8.7 (538.5) During the sojourn on world number six the mansion world students achieve a status which is comparable with the exalted development characterizing those evolutionary worlds which have normally progressed beyond the initial stage of light and life. The organization of society on this mansonia is of a high order. The shadow of the mortal nature grows less and less as these worlds are ascended one by one. You are becoming more and more adorable as you leave behind the coarse vestiges of planetary animal origin. “Coming up through great tribulation” serves to make glorified mortals very kind and understanding, very sympathetic and tolerant.

109:5.5 (1199.6) While the hereditary legacy of cerebral endowment and that of electrochemical overcontrol both operate to delimit the sphere of efficient Adjuster activity, no hereditary handicap (in normal minds) ever prevents eventual spiritual achievement. Heredity may interfere with the rate of personality conquest, but it does not prevent eventual consummation of the ascendant adventure. If you will co-operate with your Adjuster, the divine gift will, sooner or later, evolve the immortal morontia soul and, subsequent to fusion therewith, will present the new creature to the sovereign Master Son of the local universe and eventually to the Father of Adjusters on Paradise.

Me here: The ascender's mind on the mansion worlds is not the electro/chemical brain of the material life and is not subject to the same deficiencies or sources of such sufferings. Which is not to say that the morontial mind is pure or error free - it is not that. The perfecting of will and the perfecting of mind takes a long, long time and lots of experience at every level of our progressive spiritization.

I cannot say for sure, but I doubt that fear, anxiety, depression, paranoia, etc. exist beyond the material life. Certainly, the UB teaches that every thought, feeling, and decision that is motived by or results in error, sin, or iniquity does not survive mortal death and does not go to soul or make the sleeping survivor's journey to the Mansion Worlds. Only that of survival, spiritual, and righteous quality makes the trip to Mansion World 1.

48:5.7 (551.2) Those things which you might have learned on earth, but which you failed to learn, must be acquired under the tutelage of these faithful and patient teachers. There are no royal roads, short cuts, or easy paths to Paradise. Irrespective of the individual variations of the route, you master the lessons of one sphere before you proceed to another; at least this is true after you once leave the world of your nativity.

48:5.8 (551.3) One of the purposes of the morontia career is to effect the permanent eradication from the mortal survivors of such animal vestigial traits as procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking. The mansonia life early teaches the young morontia pupils that postponement is in no sense avoidance. After the life in the flesh, time is no longer available as a technique of dodging situations or of circumventing disagreeable obligations.

48:8.2 (557.17) There is a definite and divine purpose in all this morontia and subsequent spirit scheme of mortal progression, this elaborate universe training school for ascending creatures. It is the design of the Creators to afford the creatures of time a graduated opportunity to master the details of the operation and administration of the grand universe, and this long course of training is best carried forward by having the surviving mortal climb up gradually and by actual participation in every step of the ascent.

48:8.3 (558.1) The mortal-survival plan has a practical and serviceable objective; you are not the recipients of all this divine labor and painstaking training only that you may survive just to enjoy endless bliss and eternal ease. There is a goal of transcendent service concealed beyond the horizon of the present universe age. If the Gods designed merely to take you on one long and eternal joy excursion, they certainly would not so largely turn the whole universe into one vast and intricate practical training school, requisition a substantial part of the celestial creation as teachers and instructors, and then spend ages upon ages piloting you, one by one, through this gigantic universe school of experiential training. The furtherance of the scheme of mortal progression seems to be one of the chief businesses of the present organized universe, and the majority of innumerable orders of created intelligences are either directly or indirectly engaged in advancing some phase of this progressive perfection plan.

48:8.4 (558.2) In traversing the ascending scale of living existence from mortal man to the Deity embrace, you actually live the very life of every possible phase and stage of perfected creature existence within the limits of the present universe age. From mortal man to Paradise finaliter embraces all that now can be — encompasses everything presently possible to the living orders of intelligent, perfected finite creature beings. If the future destiny of the Paradise finaliters is service in new universes now in the making, it is assured that in this new and future creation there will be no created orders of experiential beings whose lives will be wholly different from those which mortal finaliters have lived on some world as a part of their ascending training, as one of the stages of their agelong progress from animal to angel and from angel to spirit and from spirit to God.

Personality, suffering, and fairness are all excellent topics to consider. Suffering is universal to all mortal beings in one form or another and is the source for much that is great in the formation of character and ultimate experiential wisdom and the empathy for other beings. Links to "suffer OR suffering" and "fair OR fairness":

https://urantia-association.org/search/ ... t%5B%5D=-1

https://urantia-association.org/search/ ... t%5B%5D=-1

8)


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 Post subject: Re: Personality issues
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Hi Heavy Metal,

I find comfort in thinking about what the book calls "deficiency ministry" on Mansonia one:

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47:3.8 Almost the entire experience of mansion world number one pertains to deficiency ministry. Survivors arriving on this first of the detention spheres present so many and such varied defects of creature character and deficiencies of mortal experience that the major activities of the realm are occupied with the correction and cure of these manifold legacies of the life in the flesh on the material evolutionary worlds of time and space.


And it seems to me that any of these maladies that you mention can often be the result of environmental or electrochemical, or other physical causes. They are not inborn personality problems. Our personalities are gifts of the Father, and are capable of eventual perfection. But in this earthly life, our personalities are conditioned somewhat by our material vessel - our body - and its genetic blueprint.

Then too, many of our troubles are the result of our having our existence on a world darkened by sin...and this is manifested as the "mark of the beast" - the legacy carried over to all of us as a result of the Lucifer rebellion, and that we all struggle to overcome. On Mansonia seven, even that is finally removed:

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47:9.1 The experience on this sphere is the crowning achievement of the immediate postmortal career. During your sojourn here you will receive the instruction of many teachers, all of whom will co-operate in the task of preparing you for residence on Jerusem. Any discernible differences between those mortals hailing from the isolated and retarded worlds and those survivors from the more advanced and enlightened spheres are virtually obliterated during the sojourn on the seventh mansion world. Here you will be purged of all the remnants of unfortunate heredity, unwholesome environment, and unspiritual planetary tendencies. The last remnants of the “mark of the beast” are here eradicated.


It's good to know that we are not our bodies...that our spirit status is separate from all of that, and as time goes on we will get freed of all the hindrances that may have gotten in our way of spiritual progress while living this life on earth.

That is my opinion, in any event.

MaryJo


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Yes maryjo...there is far more than mercy ministry to consider....there is Divine Assurance and Divine Affection when considering how fairness is administered by the universe creators, rulers, administrators, and the entire celestial family!

28:6.8 [Part I]
The mercy reflectors, with their tertiary associates, engage in numerous superuniverse ministries, including the teaching of the ascending creatures. Among many other things the Significances of Origins teach these ascenders how to apply spirit ethics, and following such training, the Memories of Mercy teach them how to be truly merciful. While the spirit techniques of mercy ministry are beyond your concept, you should even now understand that mercy is a quality of growth. You should realize that there is a great reward of personal satisfaction in being first just, next fair, then patient, then kind. And then, on that foundation, if you choose and have it in your heart, you can take the next step and really show mercy; but you cannot exhibit mercy in and of itself. These steps must be traversed; otherwise there can be no genuine mercy. There may be patronage, condescension, or charity — even pity — but not mercy. True mercy comes only as the beautiful climax to these preceding adjuncts to group understanding, mutual appreciation, fraternal fellowship, spiritual communion, and divine harmony.*

37:5.9 [Part II]
Whenever fairness and justice require an understanding of how a contemplated policy or procedure would affect the evolutionary races of time, these commissioners are at hand to present their recommendations; they are always present to speak for those who cannot be present to speak for themselves.

40:5.11 [Part II]
The Gods who ordained that mortal man should climb to higher levels of spiritual intelligence through long ages of evolutionary trials and tribulations, take note of his status and needs at every stage of the ascent; and always are they divinely fair and just, even charmingly merciful, in the final judgments of these struggling mortals of the early days of the evolving races.

Me here: As many quotes on "fair OR fairness" posted above will attest, fairness was a principal teaching of Jesus and an inherent expectation of mortal mind...even and especially the child's mind.

It is unfortunate that a child's mind can be and often is polluted and distorted by unfairness and other negative examples of adults in our life. But never is unfairness experienced by the influence, cause, or effects of creators or rulers or God's will or WAY. Unfairness is a source of suffering. God does not cause suffering.

However, God cannot and will not prevent that suffering which comes from our own free will choice. God may and does give comfort, solace, relief, and remedy to all who suffer by the choices of others, sooner or later, because of the affection God has for all of his beloved children.

It is interesting to consider how many suffer and how much they suffer by choosing and embracing fear, anxiety, depression, negativity, etc. Who can stop such a willful embrace and its consequence? Only the person making that choice. But whether self chosen or imposed upon self, the morontia experience upon the Mansion Worlds shall surely bring great relief from and contrast to ALL sources of such suffering.

We are taught that we must learn to give mercy to truly receive it (not for its inherent offer and availability but to actually embrace it and benefit by it). We are also taught that fairness is similarly reciprocal in nature. Life will never be 'fair' to those who remain unfair to others.

(614.3) 54:1.8 There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.

(614.4) 54:1.9 How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects.

(614.5) 54:1.10 Evolutionary man may have to contend for his material liberties with tyrants and oppressors on a world of sin and iniquity or during the early times of a primitive evolving sphere, but not so on the morontia worlds or on the spirit spheres.....

Me here: Paper 47, introduced above by maryjo is an excellent read and study about the comfort and joys to be discovered on the Mansion Worlds...no matter our suffering or its causes on the world of our material birth!! We are immediately made welcome and safe and given affection and great kindness. These worlds are nothing like the primitive spheres of the early mortal epochs or those who have suffered from default or rebellion. The contrast will be most profound for us all!

47:3.12 (534.4) As you start out on the first mansion world, one Morontia Companion is assigned to each company of one thousand ascending mortals, but you will encounter larger numbers as you progress through the seven mansion spheres. These beautiful and versatile beings are companionable associates and charming guides. They are free to accompany individuals or selected groups to any of the transition-culture spheres, including their satellite worlds. They are the excursion guides and leisure associates of all ascending mortals. They often accompany survivor groups on periodic visits to Jerusem, and on any day you are there, you can go to the registry sector of the system capital and meet ascending mortals from all seven of the mansion worlds since they freely journey back and forth between their residential abodes and the system headquarters.

47:4.7 (535.3) Biological deficiencies were largely made up on the first mansion world. There defects in planetary experiences pertaining to sex life, family association, and parental function were either corrected or were projected for future rectification among the Material Son families on Jerusem.

47:4.8 (535.4) Mansonia number two more specifically provides for the removal of all phases of intellectual conflict and for the cure of all varieties of mental disharmony. The effort to master the significance of morontia mota, begun on the first mansion world, is here more earnestly continued. The development on mansonia number two compares with the intellectual status of the post-Magisterial Son culture of the ideal evolutionary worlds.

Me here: We do not leave #2 until we are free of all unfairness and the maladies you describe in your original question HM1.

47:5.3 (536.1) Mansonia the third is a world of great personal and social achievement for all who have not made the equivalent of these circles of culture prior to release from the flesh on the mortal nativity worlds. On this sphere more positive educational work is begun. The training of the first two mansion worlds is mostly of a deficiency nature — negative — in that it has to do with supplementing the experience of the life in the flesh. On this third mansion world the survivors really begin their progressive morontia culture. The chief purpose of this training is to enhance the understanding of the correlation of morontia mota and mortal logic, the co-ordination of morontia mota and human philosophy. Surviving mortals now gain practical insight into true metaphysics. This is the real introduction to the intelligent comprehension of cosmic meanings and universe interrelationships. The culture of the third mansion world partakes of the nature of the postbestowal Son age of a normal inhabited planet.

47:6.3 (536.4) It is during the period of training on world number four that the ascending mortals are really first introduced to the demands and delights of the true social life of morontia creatures. And it is indeed a new experience for evolutionary creatures to participate in social activities which are predicated neither on personal aggrandizement nor on self-seeking conquest. A new social order is being introduced, one based on the understanding sympathy of mutual appreciation, the unselfish love of mutual service, and the overmastering motivation of the realization of a common and supreme destiny — the Paradise goal of worshipful and divine perfection. Ascenders are all becoming self-conscious of God-knowing, God-revealing, God-seeking, and God-finding.

47:7.5 (537.5) A real birth of cosmic consciousness takes place on mansonia number five. You are becoming universe minded. This is indeed a time of expanding horizons. It is beginning to dawn upon the enlarging minds of the ascending mortals that some stupendous and magnificent, some supernal and divine, destiny awaits all who complete the progressive Paradise ascension, which has been so laboriously but so joyfully and auspiciously begun. At about this point the average mortal ascender begins to manifest bona fide experiential enthusiasm for the Havona ascent. Study is becoming voluntary, unselfish service natural, and worship spontaneous. A real morontia character is budding; a real morontia creature is evolving.

47:8.7 (538.5) During the sojourn on world number six the mansion world students achieve a status which is comparable with the exalted development characterizing those evolutionary worlds which have normally progressed beyond the initial stage of light and life. The organization of society on this mansonia is of a high order. The shadow of the mortal nature grows less and less as these worlds are ascended one by one. You are becoming more and more adorable as you leave behind the coarse vestiges of planetary animal origin. “Coming up through great tribulation” serves to make glorified mortals very kind and understanding, very sympathetic and tolerant.

47:9.5 (539.2) You will greatly enjoy your progress through the seven dematerializing worlds; they are really demortalizing spheres. You are mostly human on the first mansion world, just a mortal being minus a material body, a human mind housed in a morontia form — a material body of the morontia world but not a mortal house of flesh and blood. You really pass from the mortal state to the immortal status at the time of Adjuster fusion, and by the time you have finished the Jerusem career, you will be full-fledged morontians.

47:10.7 (540.3) Mortal death is a technique of escape from the material life in the flesh; and the mansonia experience of progressive life through seven worlds of corrective training and cultural education represents the introduction of mortal survivors to the morontia career, the transition life which intervenes between the evolutionary material existence and the higher spirit attainment of the ascenders of time who are destined to achieve the portals of eternity.

What a glorious adventure!! It has already begun for those who embrace the reality of the universe!!

Bradly 8)


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So if I am understanding this correctly it isn't until completion of the Mansonia experience 3 that these issues are totally purged. My own unfortunate suffering of the types I described has made me more aware and understanding of what others are troubled by, but has also been 59 years (so far) of this unpleasantness and it tends to wear me down. I feel these maladies have retarded my growth to a significant degree. Nietzsche's most famous quote is true to an extent, but is not true in all circumstances. Sometimes it just plain sucks.

Thank you for your answers to my post.


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Hi Heavy Metal - Yes, sometimes it just does...

Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. Your statements rang for me, and I sympathize with you as I have also always been plagued by unreasoned fears, depressions - anxiety attacks and so forth. And yes, it can be exhausting at times. I consider some of it to be the result of unfortunate childhood experience - maybe some of it is inherited. But it has been the teachings of The Urantia Book that have really made a difference in my life and I hope that's true for you, too, in spite of having these periodic times of exhaustion and concern. I have found comfort in knowing that the Spirit is dominant over the material. Knowing that these truths can be "acted out" has been such a help.

From The Spirit in Man https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-34-the-local-universe-mother-spirit#U34_6_1

Quote:
34:6.13 The consciousness of the spirit domination of a human life is presently attended by an increasing exhibition of the characteristics of the Spirit in the life reactions of such a spirit-led mortal, “for the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.” Such spirit-guided and divinely illuminated mortals, while they yet tread the lowly paths of toil and in human faithfulness perform the duties of their earthly assignments, have already begun to discern the lights of eternal life as they glimmer on the faraway shores of another world; already have they begun to comprehend the reality of that inspiring and comforting truth, “The kingdom of God is not meat and drink but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” And throughout every trial and in the presence of every hardship, spirit-born souls are sustained by that hope which transcends all fear because the love of God is shed abroad in all hearts by the presence of the divine Spirit.


There is always hope when one gains that universe view and solid orientation to reality that the UB gives. In spite of our troubles, we are noble beings capable of greatness because we are so loved and fellowshipped by God. It's a gift to know that, I am sure you will agree. Not everyone is so lucky. Best wishes...upward!

MaryJo


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I suggest we take a deeper look at this issue as we actually might find an answer there that doesn’t put off the realization of spiritual fulfillment until we achieve Mansion World status. Jesus never implied that we would have to wait until we get to heaven to receive God’s full measure of love, grace, joy and personal spiritual fulfillment, so why we resign ourselves to either act as if we are fulfilled when we know we aren’t, or simply decide to put our whole hope of realization of these wonders to another time and place, is quite revealing.

First and quite simply, the Bible, the Urantia Book and every other true spiritual teaching source all teach the same ability to receive the exact same fulfillment here as there; it is by one simple methodology. It in fact, is the only methodology we will ever be able to utilize to achieve spiritual achievement, forever. It is called faith. Rather than go into a great study of the passages relating to that word in any book, I will defer to the supreme qualifier of the real comprehension of faith as a procedural process with anticipated and expected results, personal spiritual experience. We study the literature to understand our personal experience, but we must personally experience God to understand him and his processes. The following quote, though, mimics my own personal experience.

In 167:5.2 we read, “That night, in Jericho, the unfriendly Pharisees sought to entrap the Master by inducing him to discuss marriage and divorce, as did their fellows one time in Galilee, but Jesus artfully avoided their efforts to bring him into conflict with their laws concerning divorce. As the publican and the Pharisee illustrated good and bad religion, their divorce practices served to contrast the better marriage laws of the Jewish code with the disgraceful laxity of the Pharisaic interpretations of these Mosaic divorce statutes.”

Now notice the differences addressed by our Midwayer authors. The real value of this lesson and Jesus’ response, isn’t in understanding his view of Jewish marriage and divorce, it is in his diversion of the direction of the issue to the source of the problem, to the heart of it. Jesus is always able to discern the spiritual value of the problems we are having and will guide us to the realization of the truth of them but only if we are willing to hear; present tense here is intentional.

Notice:

“The Pharisee judged himself by the lowest standard (‘I am not worthy and that makes me better’); the publican squared himself by the highest ideal.”

“Devotion, to the Pharisee, was a means of inducing self-righteous inactivity and the assurance of false spiritual security; devotion, to the publican, was a means of stirring up his soul to the realization of the need for repentance, confession, and the acceptance, by faith, of merciful forgiveness.”

“The Pharisee sought justice; the publican sought mercy.”

“The law of the universe is: Ask and you shall receive; seek and you shall find.”


Both of these, seeking and asking, begin with the recognition of personal inadequacy; the need to repent, confess, and accept forgiveness.

So, the key to all spiritual growth, here or on Mansonia One, Two or wherever, is the same process. It never changes. It never gets easier, or simpler, or less deliberate, because it never gets less personal. Growing up takes all our willpower and all our faith. We have to learn to exercise our faith like we have to learn to exercise our bodies and our minds. We must work it and that means experience it. Once again, "Devotion, to the publican, was a means of stirring up his soul to the realization of the need for repentance, confession, and the acceptance, by faith, of merciful forgiveness."

Death adds nothing to our journey except the experience of having survived. By that statement the Revelation places us right where we are; might as well decide to grow up here and now. The difference is as Bradley says, contrast. But contrast between what and what? Contrast between real and false? Between sin and no sin? Between, difficult to come to terms with personal issues and easily perceived personal issues? If we have postponed our personal growth to be dealt with in the hereafter because we think it will be easier to do then, we are overwhelmingly misunderstanding the challenge of growing spiritually. Postponing dealing with our personal issues is an ability we can exercise on this planet but not on the next. That means that the ability to time delay this process of discovering the reality of our personal issues disappears. There is no ability to postpone the personal growth decisions. The ones we must make when we get to the Mansion Worlds will still have to stir up our souls to the realization of the need for repentance, confession, and the acceptance, by faith, of God’s mercy. In the perception of reality from a personal perspective, it is always ‘now’! Now is when we must decide to grow, to face our fears, to challenge our souls, to experience faith, living faith.

It is not the education of our minds that transforms our souls as we progress, it is the transformation of our souls by faith that enables the transcendent education of our minds. That is true here, now, as well.
Here is a simple little metaphor. Imagine a Chinese Lantern, a flat but intricately designed shape, barely more than a quarter inch thick. Now lift the center by the string and reveal all the folds, holes, and amazingly intricate designs built into it that were hidden in it when it was folded. That is like us. Spiritual faith, spiritual faith alone, lifts us to reveal what absolutely nothing else can. The great challenge is we must be personally willing to unfold each fold. Each fold is our own personal responsibility whether here or on the Mansion Worlds.

Faith is the process of spiritual realization and Faith must be deliberate. It is that deliberateness that is our personal challenge. One, two, skip a few, ninety-nine, one hundred, doesn’t work. It doesn’t work here, and it doesn’t work there.

Personal spiritual growth requires the personal decision to activate our faith on each and every issue of our personality, that is how we grow. As Jesus said, says, and will forever say, the kingdom of heaven is within and it is here, now.

I say, don’t put it off until another day. Now is always NOW! Faith is always and only experienced.

Jim


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Heavy Metal 1 wrote:
So if I am understanding this correctly it isn't until completion of the Mansonia experience 3 that these issues are totally purged. My own unfortunate suffering of the types I described has made me more aware and understanding of what others are troubled by, but has also been 59 years (so far) of this unpleasantness and it tends to wear me down. I feel these maladies have retarded my growth to a significant degree. Nietzsche's most famous quote is true to an extent, but is not true in all circumstances. Sometimes it just plain sucks.

Thank you for your answers to my post.


What an important point you exemplify!! Your acute awareness and understanding is a value and benefit to the entirity of time and space experience of the Supreme. We are taught that those finaliters who serve in the universes of time and space deliver such wisdom and empathy to all of us who struggle and suffer, no matter the obstacle, delay, and suffering endured. The ability to acknowledge, empathize, and tenderly give affection and support for those who suffer is a very angelic act and a paternal act. This is a profoundly important perspective and gift you will share with others forevermore.

Perhaps it is that while you note your progress or growth to be retarded in some ways, it may also be true that you have grown greatly in other ways that will and do make you uniquely qualified as an exemplar of righteousness and mercy ministry in time to come?! I know you lean upon God when things and times are most difficult. We all do. I am also sure you share your victories and triumphs of spirit and striving with God as well. You know God is there and God cares and is with us in all our sufferings. When I am down and momentarily lost in my own suffering, I always recall these quotea:

1:5.16 (29.6) It is literally true: “In all your afflictions he is afflicted.” “In all your triumphs he triumphs in and with you.” ...

3:6.6 (53.4) Does the Paradise Father suffer? I do not know. The Creator Sons most certainly can and sometimes do, even as do mortals. The Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit suffer in a modified sense. I think the Universal Father does, but I cannot understand how; perhaps through the personality circuit or through the individuality of the Thought Adjusters and other bestowals of his eternal nature. He has said of the mortal races, “In all your afflictions I am afflicted.” He unquestionably experiences a fatherly and sympathetic understanding; he may truly suffer, but I do not comprehend the nature thereof.

48:7.14 (556.14) 12. The greatest affliction of the cosmos is never to have been afflicted. Mortals only learn wisdom by experiencing tribulation.

Me here: The hammer and anvil of our suffering takes so many forms...none are particularly more welcome than another I do not think. But I do hope for your relief and peace of heart and mind in all tribulations, trials, and afflictions HM1!

In the moment of suffering, I often feel time stand still and the duration of a moment seems so endless. But I know that this life is truly so brief in the scales of eternity to come and if I can endure this moment and make it to the next with God's love for me within that all such suffering will end soon enough...and for eternity to come. Few in all of creation are forged in such fires and between such vigorous blows of forming and shaping that knowledge, experience, understanding, and merciful empathy as are the mortal children of time.

While it may be impossible to see this suffering as a blessing or a transformative tool of eternal service and love for others while in the fiery furnace of mortl life, I cling to the teaching that this is true. I know that Jesus too suffered many forms of anguish and pain....all of which he took to God for relief and succour and guidance in his times of affliction. We can only do the same.

Some of us suffer from that which is not intentional but is the result of the default in the Garden...especially those maladies of biologic deficiencies which should have been remedied by the infusion of violet blood into our genetic lines so long ago. And we suffer socially by the lack of on-planet leadership and visible example due to the rebellion by our Prince so long ago....the double whammy. So much that is apparently cruel or unfair is not by design or by the wishes of our creator or our rulers....it is not normal.

But like the blind who can hear the scurry of a mouse or the deaf who can see with new vision, those of us who are so cursed in some ways, are the recipients of many forms of ministry and blessing and love expressions and mercy ministry that help us become the agondonters of time and space and for all of eternity. We are numbered among the greatest of finaliters in future service only because of our afflictions here on Urantia.

Small comfort for now....hahahahaha....true enough. But time will tell what blessings arise from our afflictions!

Best wishes!

Bradly 8)

Here's the link to 196 quotes on "suffer OR suffering":

https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... rch=Search

And "tribulation":

https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

And affliction:

https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all

:wink:


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I find your sympathy and teaching MaryJo to be supportive. It is of immense comfort to be reminded of these opportunities.

Jim I think that you are right to seek spiritual realisation while in human form here this lifetime. But you say this faith is the only methodology we may use to attain spiritual realisation. But it is also written that faith is but the precursor to mota, which is like a sensitivity towards spiritual things, even a sensitivity towards wisdom. This idea of faith is like a curtain which means something else to every person. We may claim that it is an ability to recognise the fruits of the spirit. Or to be aligned with and rooted in goodness.

I say that I do not quite understand, seeing that every situation possible is told to bear some lesson. Surely it is not our human concept of faith, but our sensitivity and obedience towardunto the inleadings of God's will, something like this. Does faith require temperance, for instance? What do you mean?

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First please allow me to offer the following as a way of answering your question and of addressing a comments from the otherthread.
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99:5.7 Just as certainly as men share their religious beliefs, they create a religious group of some sort which eventually creates common goals. Someday religionists will get together and actually effect co-operation on the basis of unityof ideals and purposes rather than attempting to do so on the basis of psychological opinions and theological beliefs. Goals rather than creeds should unify religionists. Since true religion is a matter of personal spiritual experience, it is inevitable that each individual religionist must have his own and personal interpretation of the realization of that spiritual experience. Let the term "faith" stand for the individual's relation to God rather than for the creedal formulation of what some group of mortals have been able to agree upon as a common religious attitude. "Have you faith? Then have it to yourself."

Obviously from this one statement 'faith' is to be understood individually by each of us. If my take on the comment that I should keep my ideas to myself is correct, I find that to be a misunderstanding of this text.

If my statements have led you to believe that I believe faith operates as an exclusive method, I stand corrected. Please read the following:
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101:2.2 Reason is the method of science; faith is the method of religion; logic is the attempted technique of philosophy. Revelation compensates for the absence of the morontia viewpoint by providing a technique for achieving unity in the comprehension of the reality and relationships of matter and spirit by the mediation of mind. And true revelation never renders science unnatural, religion unreasonable, or philosophy illogical.


My personal conclusion is that the experience of the method of faith is derived from an act of my will not from a conclusion of rational thought. My experience is that faith occurs when I decide to allow myself to trust God will adjust my perspective to enable me to envision a value I cannot imagine. In my experience faith produces this stream of insight, insight that I am unable to willfully generate and that because I cannot, I decide to believe (have faith) that it is God who provides it. My intellect is quite busy arranging all the options available via reason and logic, but when I find myself in need of God's guidance I deliberately relinquish control and await his insight.

The challenge for me or any of us who seek truth is in our pre-ordained commitment to live according to this insight we have decided is God, and that is also faith.

Jim


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Jim - Please define "pre-ordained commitment". :?: :-s

HM1 - I hope you've had a chance to study the text with the link provided my maryjo. Paper 34, Sections 5,6, and 7 are very illuminating on the questions you pose here. All mortals everywhere experience a certain amount of conflict and discordance and strife in harmonizing our dual natures in this brief life. Here on Urantia, this conflict is described as "acute" (see below).

Elsewhere, we are also taught that psychic conflict is inevitable for all ascending minds who are neither totally material or totally spiritual - the very transcendence of material mindedness causes many forms of stress. The inherent conflict during our spiritualization is greatest in the earlier stages and psychic circles of progress and lessen as faith and truth assurance gain strength...especially is this so when we awaken on the Mansion Worlds amidst sensory and material evidence of the greater reality and truths of our universe existence. Psychic conflict is inherent in the human condition upon the material worlds early in the mortal epochs of all worlds and is especially troublesome, for a season, on worlds subjected to rebellion and/or default.

We are taught that prayer is the best antidote to all such mortal, minded, emotional, and psychic conflicts and confusions and uncertainties and disappointments and failures. Prayer is the personal and willful connection to the faith and truth assurance relationship that each of us may access personally. Prayer demonstrates our faith in the sharing of our difficulties, struggles,failures, and also our victories, triumphs, and our thanks in our being and in our growing and in our becoming. This is the sharing of beloved child with loving parent. It is the very best 'medicine' and 'nourishment' for the branch's attachment to the vine and for the children of time with the Creator of time and the universe of universes....our heavenly parent.

That loving parent does not plan or hope for any of our suffering and provides significant succor and tender ministries of support and love to us....from our very birth moment and infancy in this life. But God cannot predetermine that free-will circumstance and situation into which we may be born nor may God overrule the repercussions of free will choices by the all or by the each....society and personal outcomes are delivered by free will choices which expresses our collective and individual motives, intentions, priorities, and choices. Improvement in outcomes is dependent in improvement in those basic determiners of temporal realities and results.

What God may do is done....God provides the inherent link to Divine ministry and love and patience and kindness and mercy and brings survival assurance and truth to the mind of every mortal born person....no matter our circumstances and situation or personal choices and despite all repercussions of those. The branch attached to the vine slowly grows the fruits of happiness, joy, poise, patience, kindness, long suffering, and the other sweet rewards of our faith assurance given us as God's gift to those who pray and act according to the reality of that personal relationship.

God also rewards every good choice and reinforces every decision based upon or which discovers truth, beauty, and goodness and delivers the suffering minds of mortals to the Mansion Worlds so very early in our eternal careers to heal and overcome all the maladies of material life and mind which cause our suffering.

All of this transition and transformation and transcendence is a process which takes time and effort and education....all of which are provided. There is no cause for despair. Hope delivers us to its desire and trust brings us closer to the realities of eternal life and the joy of God's love for us.

Or so we are taught..... :wink: :idea: :!: 8)

34:7.1 The flesh, the inherent nature derived from the animal-origin races, does not naturally bear the fruits of the divine Spirit. When the mortal nature has been upstepped by the addition of the nature of the Material Sons of God, as the Urantia races were in a measure advanced by the bestowal of Adam, then is the way better prepared for the Spirit of Truth to co-operate with the indwelling Adjuster to bring forth the beautiful harvest of the character fruits of the spirit. If you do not reject this spirit, even though eternity may be required to fulfill the commission, “he will guide you into all truth.”

34:7.2 Evolutionary mortals inhabiting normal worlds of spiritual progress do not experience the acute conflicts between the spirit and the flesh which characterize the present-day Urantia races. But even on the most ideal planets, pre-Adamic man must put forth positive efforts to ascend from the purely animalistic plane of existence up through successive levels of increasingly intellectual meanings and higher spiritual values.

34:7.3 The mortals of a normal world do not experience constant warfare between their physical and spiritual natures. They are confronted with the necessity of climbing up from the animal levels of existence to the higher planes of spiritual living, but this ascent is more like undergoing an educational training when compared with the intense conflicts of Urantia mortals in this realm of the divergent material and spiritual natures.

34:7.4 The Urantia peoples are suffering the consequences of a double deprivation of help in this task of progressive planetary spiritual attainment. The Caligastia upheaval precipitated world-wide confusion and robbed all subsequent generations of the moral assistance which a well-ordered society would have provided. But even more disastrous was the Adamic default in that it deprived the races of that superior type of physical nature which would have been more consonant with spiritual aspirations.

34:7.5 Urantia mortals are compelled to undergo such marked struggling between the spirit and the flesh because their remote ancestors were not more fully Adamized by the Edenic bestowal. It was the divine plan that the mortal races of Urantia should have had physical natures more naturally spirit responsive.


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110:6.6 Every decision you make either impedes or facilitates the function of the Adjuster; likewise do these very decisions determine your advancement in the circles of human achievement. It is true that the supremacy of a decision, its crisis relationship, has a great deal to do with its circle-making influence; nevertheless, numbers of decisions, frequent repetitions, persistent repetitions, are also essential to the habit-forming certainty of such reactions.


Bradley, my use of the term “pre-ordained commitment” refers to the practice of personally consecrating a decision-making process or more literally, a group of decisions, and my faithful execution of my will power, in advance, to the control of my thought adjuster. These “persistent repetitions” can become habitual and in so doing are the basis of the practice I have “pre-ordained”.

A simple example will suffice. I decide to drive my car to my son’s house. In doing so I am required to make thousands of decisions; decisions on the practice of operating the automobile, of how close to the letter of the law I will proceed, of how to adjust for incidents that may occur along the way, of how I shall modify my practice if the weather changes, etc., etc. I have “pre-ordained” a composite decision practice that makes the whole thing rather mindless, but I am fully responsible for each minor decision or minute part thereof regardless of content of the actual experience and because the intent is "pre-ordained" by me.

The same is true with my experience with God. After many attempts to comprehend his input I have discovered a practice of interaction that I believe can become habitual and it is my intent to make it so. I have "pre-ordained” my responses to that form of input. That means I have consecrated my decision-making process to, more or less, automatically react. Now I understand that I must remain fully responsible for each minute part of that decision process and the faith response of my will is dependent on honest recognition of the value received, but it takes the energy of dealing with each part off the table and makes it simpler to live.


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You have settled the uncertainty I had.

This subject would concern worry, or the worrisome habits that we humans have. I observe that worry can be of an intellectual or mental nature, rather than purely physical or psychological. The worry relates to our human understanding of universe-possibility, and that no human is truly exempt from it. But what is the nature of the worry? Do we worry about merely our own predicaments, or do we develop our minds like Jesus to worry about his Apostles, his family, and the fate of the world? I indicate that in your maturation, the adjustment of your worries from self-concerns, to worries for God the Suprem, the progress of the universe, and loved ones. If you can overcome your personal concerns, rise to the level where you are present to the legitimate concerns of others, then your worry can actually interact with your innate spiritual sensitivity, when you are socialising with others, giving you insight and compassion.

Rather than do away with the worries and the dread of one's spiritual standing, we may address our own understandings and adjust our concerns in the manner that is most helpful to our indwelling Thought Adjusters, in order to join the progression of Life & Light.

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The last thing I want to point out in this thread, is that genetically many families witness recurrence of dangerous psychological traits such as manic-depressive illness or schizophrenia, or mood instability issues. This is often an indication of high spiritual sensitivity potential for human individuals of that clan. The greater the dillemma, the more potentials interacting in your mind say, then also there is a greater potential for the individualised indwelling Adjuster to act within that individual. You may think of him as having a higher risk and a higher cost for personality survival. Kay Redfield Jemison describes one quality "exuberance" as a human trait of both immense power and great vulnerability. In short, when we observe the neuroticisms of an human individual, his negative and positive personality potentials say, we do not at least in the beginning need to observe with a moral lense, but moreso a normative basis for preadjustment of human mannerisms. Individuals who suffer because of their community or genetic predispositions should feel justified to cling to the theory of gradual maturation via Adjuster attunement (daily toil).

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Excellent point I believe.

We humans spend much time and energy attempting to exact an accurate appreciation and understanding of both the internal and external issues before us, and rightly so. What we so often fail to do is to apply the effects of our own transience to the equation. We are growing, developing, maturing, spiritualizing and in a simple word, changing before our very eyes. Some of those changes would be made less strenuous were we to realize that it is our own viewpoint that limits our observations. The Thought Adjuster is busy building the counterpart to our highest intents and thought so our willingness to allow ourselves to identify with our intentions and the actions of the Thought Adjuster rather than with our actual reality achieved, creates a falseness in our personality which we rarely identify, but we must. The authors of the Urantia Book are very careful to point this issue out to us. In addition, and to what you pointed out, the genetic predispositions for each of us may be seen by our consciousness as work to be done, or they may not, for any number of reasons. All of this and much more creates, for each of us, a tenuous psychological support system yet it is from that position, we must view the world.

What I appreciated in your post is the fact that we sometimes forget to offer the same flexibility and personal space to others who are revealing to us that their lives are in motion, especially when we fail to remember the transience of our own existence.


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