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alwilliams767 wrote:
Totally digging the temporal sidebar here guys... You know, one of my very favorite concepts to ponder when I am contemplating the UB is the idea that there was (as I see it at least) an actual "time before time". The Authors are pretty specific on this, you know, reaching waaaaay back to that grand and awful moment then Havona sprang into existence and the energies of the Master (and Grand) universes were set loose. Before that eternity moment, I wonder, was there no time, no space???... pretty cool eh? And after the Supreme comes into full existence, what then? Will there still be time and space as we know it? The Authors seem to hint that the answer to that is no. Will the seven super-universes be complete and replete? Will evolution as we know it be done? I guess we are gonna have to wait to find out, but for me, its something I never tire of contemplating... Still surfing the universe
Al


I think of time as measured based on atomic activity, the motion of atomic clocks. The Urantia Book hints that there is another time, within or ability to measure, before atomic time. I am going to call it gravity time. The intense vibrations of ultimatons gravitationally collapsing into the electronic organization of matter is the basis of gravity time. If we can learn to see atomic time from the perspective of gravity time then atomic time will come into sharper focus and be more clearly understood. Times before gravity time, moving toward timelessness, are beyond our ability to measure and fully understand with our primitive brains IMO. That is where faith comes in... Still paddling out.

regards gray


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
If we can learn to see atomic time from the perspective of gravity time then atomic time will come into sharper focus and be more clearly understood.


Hi Gray,
I cannot see how gravity and time are linked in this way. TUB says that space is not responsive to gravity. And space and time are inseparably linked in time-space creations.

0:6.11 ...Pattern may configure energy, but it does not control it. Gravity is the sole control of energy-matter. Neither space nor pattern are gravity responsive, but there is no relationship between space and pattern; space is neither pattern nor potential...


Ultimatons cannot collapse into any other form of matter because they are the first of the measurable forms of matter. Can you explain further what you are saying?


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toto wrote:
SEla_Kelly wrote:


Ultimatons cannot collapse into any other form of matter because they are the first of the measurable forms of matter. Can you explain further what you are saying?


Hi toto,

Sorry for the confusion. :?

Science tells us that time began instantaneously with a big bang. This leaves out the analysis of the movement of ultimatons from being under control of paradise gravity only, while moving faster than the speed of light to a slowing down and condensation of clouds or oceans of ultimatons into atomic matter. We are told that gravity is a warp in space-time. My question is, what is the series of events that causes the warp? What, actually, is gravity? Right now gravity only exists in time as a warp. The understanding that the process of creation is causing the warp will solve the theory of everything problem and the timing of gravity is the key.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Einstein

regards, gray


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Hi Gray,

graybear13 wrote:
Science tells us that time began instantaneously with a big bang.


Well, we know that this theory is wrong, both from TUB narrative and many scientific observations that contradict this theory. Current science hangs onto many false theories for far too long.


graybear13 wrote:
This leaves out the analysis of the movement of ultimatons from being under control of paradise gravity only, while moving faster than the speed of light to a slowing down and condensation of clouds or oceans of ultimatons into atomic matter.


graybear13 wrote:
We are told that gravity is a warp in space-time.
This may be true but it must be realized that the speed of light is not constant. This is another false scientific assumption by which Einstein and fellow physicists of that time had to have a constant, unchanging anchor by which to hang on to. They never considered the center of all things, Paradise, as the only constant in the Universe. The speed of light has been in acceleration ever since the expansion cycle of space began about a half billion years ago.


graybear13 wrote:
We are told that gravity is a warp in space-time.


This is the model presented by Einstein in General Relativity but TUB Shot this down when I quoted before from TUB that space is not gravity responsive. His theory states that mass warps space-time and thus produces a gravity well. But this theory would produce a Universe where a feedback loop would turn the entire universe into an absolute mass. Einstein unwittingly saw the Absolutum of Paradise. This is absolute gravity but the ultimatons come about with the effects of linear gravity. This is the duality of motions that comes about by rotation and respiration of time-space. The duality is also known as polarity; this is charge. Paradise has polarity without motion (North/South). Creation in time-space is polarity in motion.


graybear13 wrote:
My question is, what is the series of events that causes the warp? What, actually, is gravity? Right now gravity only exists in time as a warp.


What you call "warp" is linear gravity that has a field that comes about because of the 'duality' of time-space. The Earth does not pull from its center, it pulls from a geometry that is a combination of pull from two poles. The warp is what what science sees as the magnetosphere. This is linear gravity and it acts preferentially in the plane perpendicular to mass. This mass is not a center, it is a line, the line we call the axis of rotation. TUB gives us this hint because a plane cannot be perpendicular to a point, only a line or another plane.

Gravity is the arms of God drawing us back to Him. This is absolute gravity. Linear gravity is God's arms joining us to our bothers.


graybear13 wrote:
The understanding that the process of creation is causing the warp will solve the theory of everything problem and the timing of gravity is the key.


Think of creation as God projecting and simultaneously pulling us back. You can experience this by throwing a top and simultaneously pulling the string back to you. Motion is creation in time-space.


Louis


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graybear13 wrote:
The understanding that the process of creation is causing the warp will solve the theory of everything problem and the timing of gravity is the key.


I will start a new thread so that we are not here off topic.


Louis


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Something is occurring in the spiritual sphere of our planet. While the capacity for truth realization has increased for God's people (those of his children who love him and are committed to the doing of his will) the opposite is occurring for his children that deny him, forgo the doing of his will.

Where this is heading is certain of further separation between what is truly good and terribly evil. While it will continue to be true that we shall always remember, when it comes to our personal mistreatment, to "Resist not evil," [141:3.8] it's now more important than ever to always support the truth when it's being maligned. We should especially be on the look out for the young and vulnerable. To guard them against being deceived and led into sedition while we stay vigilant in our personal mission to achieve contact with the divine presence, follow Jesus.

We are living in the most important moment that's ever occurred so far. Time is of the essence. Right now.

Enno


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nodAmanaV wrote:
Something is occurring in the spiritual sphere of our planet. While the capacity for truth realization has increased for God's people (those of his children who love him and are committed to the doing of his will) the opposite is occurring for his children that deny him, forgo the doing of his will.


I am not familiar with this phrase "the spiritual sphere of our planet". Can you provide a reference or explain what you are referring to?

Here is a quote about God's will that explains the difference between what we choose to do in our day-to-day actions and the less noticeable, but much more important, progressive experience of achieving Godliness.

Quote:
130:2.7 (1431.2) This was a conference which lasted well into the night, in the course of which the young man requested Jesus to tell him the difference between the will of God and that human mind act of choosing which is also called will. In substance Jesus said: The will of God is the way of God, partnership with the choice of God in the face of any potential alternative. To do the will of God, therefore, is the progressive experience of becoming more and more like God, and God is the source and destiny of all that is good and beautiful and true. The will of man is the way of man, the sum and substance of that which the mortal chooses to be and do. Will is the deliberate choice of a self-conscious being which leads to decision-conduct based on intelligent reflection.


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nodAmanaV wrote:
We are living in the most important moment that's ever occurred so far. Time is of the essence. Right now.


An interesting declaration and proposition. So...."most important moment..ever...."? And not only is this moment the most important of all moments, but also we are to hurry things up..."right now"?

We are told that such impatience is a spirit poison and, usually, a very mortal-tadpole feeling. When the celestials experience such impatience - the monumental importance of now and here - that very bad things occur.

54:4.4 (616.3) Most of the liberties which Lucifer sought he already had; others he was to receive in the future. All these precious endowments were lost by giving way to impatience and yielding to a desire to possess what one craves now and to possess it in defiance of all obligation to respect the rights and liberties of all other beings composing the universe of universes. Ethical obligations are innate, divine, and universal.

74:8.14 (838.6) The “golden age” is a myth, but Eden was a fact, and the Garden civilization was actually overthrown. Adam and Eve carried on in the Garden for one hundred and seventeen years when, through the impatience of Eve and the errors of judgment of Adam, they presumed to turn aside from the ordained way, speedily bringing disaster upon themselves and ruinous retardation upon the developmental progression of all Urantia.

130:5.3 (1436.4) One day when Ganid asked Jesus why he had not devoted himself to the work of a public teacher, he said: “My son, everything must await the coming of its time. You are born into the world, but no amount of anxiety and no manifestation of impatience will help you to grow up. You must, in all such matters, wait upon time. Time alone will ripen the green fruit upon the tree. Season follows season and sundown follows sunrise only with the passing of time. I am now on the way to Rome with you and your father, and that is sufficient for today. My tomorrow is wholly in the hands of my Father in heaven.” And then he told Ganid the story of Moses and the forty years of watchful waiting and continued preparation.

As everyone's view is subjective and as the UB does not support such a claim, one might consider how immature such impatience truly is. Has free will be removed? Are the mortal epochs of planetary time done? Are the angels soon to blow the trumpets of the rapture? The only, and I mean the only, reason for such a claim is that this moment is most important to YOU and to those with such a compressed time unit perspective, that you simply cannot 'see' this moment in relation to the distant past and distant future. This brief life offers no context to celestial time and evolutionary time where patience and persistence eventuates potentials into actualizations. A little context and perspective might help such impatience. A more mature perspective might include the faith, trust, and loyalty in the Most Highs and Michael who are in full control of our world and its progression toward L&L. To wit:

118:1.3 (1295.3) There is a direct relationship between maturity and the unit of time consciousness in any given intellect. The time unit may be a day, a year, or a longer period, but inevitably it is the criterion by which the conscious self evaluates the circumstances of life, and by which the conceiving intellect measures and evaluates the facts of temporal existence.

118:1.4 (1295.4) Experience, wisdom, and judgment are the concomitants of the lengthening of the time unit in mortal experience. As the human mind reckons backward into the past, it is evaluating past experience for the purpose of bringing it to bear on a present situation. As mind reaches out into the future, it is attempting to evaluate the future significance of possible action. And having thus reckoned with both experience and wisdom, the human will exercises judgment-decision in the present, and the plan of action thus born of the past and the future becomes existent.

118:1.5 (1295.5) In the maturity of the developing self, the past and future are brought together to illuminate the true meaning of the present. As the self matures, it reaches further and further back into the past for experience, while its wisdom forecasts seek to penetrate deeper and deeper into the unknown future. And as the conceiving self extends this reach ever further into both past and future, so does judgment become less and less dependent on the momentary present. In this way does decision-action begin to escape from the fetters of the moving present, while it begins to take on the aspects of past-future significance.

118:1.6 (1295.6) Patience is exercised by those mortals whose time units are short; true maturity transcends patience by a forbearance born of real understanding.

118:1.7 (1295.7) To become mature is to live more intensely in the present, at the same time escaping from the limitations of the present. The plans of maturity, founded on past experience, are coming into being in the present in such manner as to enhance the values of the future.

118:1.8 (1295.8) The time unit of immaturity concentrates meaning-value into the present moment in such a way as to divorce the present of its true relationship to the not-present — the past-future. The time unit of maturity is proportioned so to reveal the co-ordinate relationship of past-present-future that the self begins to gain insight into the wholeness of events, begins to view the landscape of time from the panoramic perspective of broadened horizons, begins perhaps to suspect the nonbeginning, nonending eternal continuum, the fragments of which are called time.


Again, I hear the same voices claiming to know the future and the need to do something as if no one IS doing something or not enough or not quickly enough....or some other dreary disappointment and demands and warnings and deadlines and multiple forms of anxieties to 'share' with others. Such a time unit perspective as demonstrated would destroy the credibility of such predictions and warnings. The Spirits are at work delivering souls for the kingdom and the Most Highs are most capable in their handling of planetary affairs. And this is certainly NOT the most important moment in all of history.

Something in the Revelation to share? Don't need any more predictions or warnings...thanks anyway. May tranquility and confidence in personal and planetary destinies replace such impatience. This is not a race. There is not a deadline at hand. And worlds are not transformed by signs, wonders, miracles, or the impatience which demands them. I fear such a proposition itself is deceptive to all, including the youth, and is a form of sedition called false liberty which is a far greater danger to us all.

8)


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fanofVan wrote:
nodAmanaV wrote:
We are living in the most important moment that's ever occurred so far. Time is of the essence. Right now.


An interesting declaration and proposition. So...."most important moment..ever...."? And not only is this moment the most important of all moments, but also we are to hurry things up..."right now"?

We are told that such impatience is a spirit poison and, usually, a very mortal-tadpole feeling. When the celestials experience such impatience - the monumental importance of now and here - that very bad things occur.



Bradly, I do think that you have misunderstood our brother Enno. Enno is correct in saying that "now" is the most important moment ever. "Now" is the only time in which we can live. We can only do God's will "now". This is because now is the only "time" that God experiences, the eternal now. To be Godlike is to experience "now" and nothing but now. This has nothing to do with impatience. Impatience is related to wanting others to be in time with ourselves. Time is perceived, and to force others to ones perception of time is the evil of Lucifer.

There is no evil in seeking the eternal now. There is only evil in using force and impatience with your yourself and your brothers. Who are we to say that Enno has not experienced eternity? No one here lives there as yet, but we can visit eternity in the "moment" of contact with our TA. And this is the most important moment ever. Why do you not trust that your brother Enno has done this?


Louis


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nodAmanaV wrote:
Something is occurring in the spiritual sphere of our planet. While the capacity for truth realization has increased for God's people (those of his children who love him and are committed to the doing of his will) the opposite is occurring for his children that deny him, forgo the doing of his will.

Where this is heading is certain of further separation between what is truly good and terribly evil. While it will continue to be true that we shall always remember, when it comes to our personal mistreatment, to "Resist not evil," [141:3.8] it's now more important than ever to always support the truth when it's being maligned. We should especially be on the look out for the young and vulnerable. To guard them against being deceived and led into sedition while we stay vigilant in our personal mission to achieve contact with the divine presence, follow Jesus.

We are living in the most important moment that's ever occurred so far. Time is of the essence. Right now.

Enno


Well toto/Louis/etc., the eternal NOW interpretation is interesting. But the topic is not about that and neither are phrases such as "Something is occurring now..." and "Where this is heading...." and "...further separation..." "...it's now more important than ever to..." and "...when it's being maligned." and "...be on the lookout for..." and "...to guard them..." and "...led into sedition while we...." and "We are living in..."


And I do trust Enno....to be Enno. His opinions are not unknown here............. 8) But perhaps I misunderstand after all.....it happens! :wink:


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fanofVan wrote:
Well toto/Louis/etc., the eternal NOW interpretation is interesting. But the topic is not about that and neither are phrases such as "Something is occurring now..." and "Where this is heading...." and "...further separation..." "...it's now more important than ever to..." and "...when it's being maligned." and "...be on the lookout for..." and "...to guard them..." and "...led into sedition while we...." and "We are living in..."


Where can anything "occur" other than NOW? In the eternal ellipse, what is the next point in the orbit? Since there are infinite ellipses, the answer is anywhere and everywhere. "Being maligned" has everything to do with NOW because one can only be in the state of being in the instant. What Enno is saying is that every moment is a choice, NOW. Be not immune to asking for consultation from Father NOW. Prepare ye the way of the Lord!


fanofVan wrote:
And I do trust Enno....to be Enno. His opinions are not unknown here............. But perhaps I misunderstand after all.....it happens!


Please explain what you mean that you trust Enno.... to be Enno? Do you know him as God knows him? I trust Enno....PERIOD! We all misunderstand. So why are you impatient with Enno? I will remind you again, even if Enno's opinion deviates from your interpretation of TUB, we are not to question a brother's relationship with their TA. We are not to interfere with this sacred relationship.


Louis


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toto wrote:
... "Being maligned" has everything to do with NOW because one can only be in the state of being in the instant. What Enno is saying is that every moment is a choice, NOW. Be not immune to asking for consultation from Father NOW. Prepare ye the way of the Lord!


Louis, based on the context of your usage, above, I do not think you know what "maligned" means.


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And yes, I understand that you are very likely referring to the book by Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now. I have read the book and it has some useful insights. However, it probably should be discussed on its own thread on that topic.


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Louis knows exactly what "maligned" means. It means to speak ill of, which, like anything that can be done, can only be done NOW, not later. And it's the only moment the truth can be supported too. NOW.


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I have a negative comment to make about that, but I'm going to post it tomorrow.
















<chuckle>


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