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92:4.9 (1008.2) 5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.

I have been contemplating the scope of the FER lately and wanted to ask you some questions:

* After the initial two sentences in the description of the fifth religious revelation of epochal significance, they say: "But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space." My question: Why do you think they put these sentences in the middle of that paragraph? Why were they associated specifically with the FER instead of being placed outside of the list indicating a more generalized statement to applying to all religious revelation?

* What exactly is the revelation of the "attainment of the Universal Father"? Is it fusion? Is it standing in his presence on Paradise? It is the culmination of the Supreme? The Ultimate? Something else?

* Why did they include the last two sentences?

* What is it about this time that such "frank statements" are advisable?

* Does not the acknowledgement of the risk of "weakening the future influence and authority" of The Urantia Book indicate that it is intended to be long-lasting revelation? That once materialized, no further interventions of epochal significance will occur after a long period?


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Greetings quil,

There's a lot to comment on there, but I have no time today, sorry.

I thought, however, that I'd pop in and say that the quest for the Universal Father is a never ending quest. Once we fuse, we are meant to discover, "-not only the infinity of the objective Deity but also the unending potentiality of the subjective fragment of this same God." (107:4:7) There is no such thing as an end to Adjuster revelation, no "final" attainment. God is eternal and infinite and so is the quest. Likewise, all experiential truth is relative, as is all revelation. What that means is that truth and revelation are alive and growing. Although the Urantia Papers are an epochal revelation, personal revelation of truth is an eternal and infinite adventure.

That's how I understand it, today. But all things being relative, it could change tomorrow.

Thanks for the topic,
Rexford


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Very interesting topic...and related questions!

The "attainment" question is finality and not fusion I think for we do not yet attain the knowledge and education and experience of Paradise upon fusion....that is really only the beginning. We have no name in the universe records until fusion, so while the soul is born here, our future destiny remains uncertain until fusion when destiny becomes assured. Evidently, even being mustered into the Corps of Finality leaves a "final" or seventh stage spiritization awaiting our future assignments into the outer levels adventure to come....which will come upon the "culmination of the Supreme".

31:3.4 (348.1) 1. We know from the records that mortals are spirits of the first order during their sojourn in the minor sectors, and that they advance to the second order when translated to the major sectors, and to the third when they go forward to the central training worlds of the superuniverse. Mortals become quartan or graduate spirits after reaching the sixth circle of Havona and become spirits of the fifth order when they find the Universal Father. They subsequently attain the sixth stage of spirit existence upon taking the oath that musters them forever into the eternity assignment of the Corps of the Mortal Finality.

31:3.5 (348.2) We observe that spirit classification, or designation, has been determined by actual advancement from one realm of universe service to another realm of universe service or from one universe to another universe; and we surmise that the bestowal of seventh-spirit classification upon the Mortal Corps of the Finality will be simultaneous with their advancement to eternal assignment for service on hitherto unrecorded and unrevealed spheres and concomitant with their attainment of God the Supreme. But aside from these bold conjectures, we really know no more about all this than you do; our knowledge of the mortal career does not go beyond present Paradise destiny.

31:3.6 (348.3) 2. The mortal finaliters have fully complied with the injunction of the ages, “Be you perfect”; they have ascended the universal path of mortal attainment; they have found God, and they have been duly inducted into the Corps of the Finality. Such beings have attained the present limit of spirit progression but not finality of ultimate spirit status. They have achieved the present limit of creature perfection but not finality of creature service. They have experienced the fullness of Deity worship but not finality of experiential Deity attainment.

31:3.7 (348.4) 3. The glorified mortals of the Paradise Corps of Finality are ascendant beings in possession of experiential knowledge of every step of the actuality and philosophy of the fullest possible life of intelligent existence, while during the ages of this ascent from the lowest material worlds to the spiritual heights of Paradise, these surviving creatures have been trained to the limits of their capacity respecting every detail of every divine principle of the just and efficient, as well as merciful and patient, administration of all the universal creation of time and space.

As to the placement of the sentence and the FER "disclaimer" that is thusly included, I conjecture that they are saying that even a multi-authored and written presentation of such an encyclipedic volume of facts, knowledge, and truth in no way abrogates the requirement of experiential acquisition of much, much more than might be learned by any mortal (or celestial for that matter!) from revelation or education until that revelation and education are final (finality) - that there is no finality of enlightenment or wisdom without age after age of education and experience. All revelation is partial and transient due to the nature of ascendency itself IMO. Even epochal revelation is subject to such limitation as is personal revelation limited in effect and truth by the being and mind that receives it. It took me quite some time to determine that enlightenment is an illusion if considered an end or completion or totality of wisdom....we are enlightening but enlightenment itself will only truly be completed on Paradise I am sure.

I think this then goes to your questions about "frank statements" and the "last two sentences". I think it is admonishing those of us who still believe in "salvation" as a perfected state after death and those of us truth seekers who still immaturely believe that we might attain enlightenment by some secret knowledge or finger to the forehead or some other short cut in our immaturity and impatience to have it all and right now!! The universe is based on achievement by acquirement by wisdom gained by experience over long, very long, time frames. This is a whole new concept and perspective for the mortal mind to assume and many will reject this truth in our laziness and weakness still desiring instant gratification. I think they are directly bursting bubbles of fantasy and trying to establish more realistic expectations and demands for becoming spiritized over time rather than instantly transformed into perfected and all wise beings.

We are told in the text on multiple occasions that the FER is for the era to follow and that our planet's evolutionary struggles will continue for epoch upon epoch still to come....so yes, I think the Revelation will stand for centuries and many generations before we, collectively, will mature sufficiently for another one. However, if one reads the Mortal Epochs Paper, one discovers great uncertainty as to who might come next and when and how as our next Teacher or Magesterial epochal revelation - all planets have many such epochal revelations prior to planetary Light and Life....Urantia has many more yet to go!! This is why the FER also teaches that it is our own personal progress in the spirit and in transferring the seat of our very identity that should engage us the most....our time here is brief upon this nursery of birth....the planet is not our concern and is in good hands....we are to serve while upon this bridge but the bridge is not our home or destiny or worry or responsibility! Or so I understand it. I cannot say when or how long it will be....but I am confident that any born in the era of an epochal revelation (this one being but 60 years among us) will not live here long enough to be concerned about the "next" one either. This one appears sufficient for all for a long time to come....until we start seeing some translations of fusion among us. Tadpoles who count their circles and claim reservist status and the ability to commune with angels and gods really crack me up....they only demonstrate their obvious immaturity and impatience and lack of enlightenment as truthseekers.

156:2.1 (1735.5) In entering Sidon, Jesus and his associates passed over a bridge, the first one many of them had ever seen. As they walked over this bridge, Jesus, among other things, said: “This world is only a bridge; you may pass over it, but you should not think to build a dwelling place upon it.”

8)


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fanofVan wrote:
[. . .]This is why the FER also teaches that it is our own personal progress in the spirit and in transferring the seat of our very identity that should engage us the most....our time here is brief upon this nursery of birth....the planet is not our concern and is in good hands....we are to serve while upon this bridge but the bridge is not our home or destiny or worry or responsibility! Or so I understand it. I cannot say when or how long it will be....but I am confident that any born in the era of an epochal revelation (this one being but 60 years among us) will not live here long enough to be concerned about the "next" one either. This one appears sufficient for all for a long time to come....until we start seeing some translations of fusion among us. [. . .]

I understand your overall statement "fanofVan" but I must take exception to your words above, which I have emphasized.
How can you say that "the planet is not our concern and is in good hands"? Whose concern is it, if it is not ours? Do you have access to a reality which is not presently visible around us, and are these, so called persons or celestials which you imply that this our world, "is in good hands" by these invisible beings, or do you also hear voices, or the voice of the TA, who tells you this? The Urantia Book does not present a doomsday revelation but does indicate history which has not always been righteous. How can you just leave this world assuming that you may have contributed to its current chaos and insecurities, and present this to your children and grandchildren to resolve for themselves? You also say that "we are to serve while upon this bridge but the bridge is not our home or destiny or worry or responsibility". What kind of person are you to sit back and serve yourself, and not others? It sounds like your like a rat leaving a sinking ship, and encouraging people to not give a crape about any others, because this world is in the hands of those one percent who own ninety-nine percent of the assets of this world and think that the ninety-nine percent who live below them are just animals.

That's not what Jesus taught, but it would seem that you believe that the FER teaches such things.


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we are to serve while upon this bridge but the bridge is not our home or destiny or worry or responsibility!

What? There is no responsibility in "response ability"??? Holy taken it easy Batman!


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at·tain·ment
əˈtānmənt/
noun
noun: attainment

the action or fact of achieving a goal toward which one has worked.


If in order to attain God one must work, what work would that be? Would it be more like reading a book or would it be more like living a life? And if God is living these lives we live with us on the inside, wouldn't we by our spiritual achievements become like an epochal revelation personally? Don't we have control of epochal things personally? What does it matter if an epochal revelation occurs and we don't do the work required to be a part of it? And likewise, why would an epochal revelation matter when we have the power to spiritually evolve epochally as a person?


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Greetings,

I'm quite certain that fusion is NOT the end of personal revelation, as is explained in the following quote:

Can you really realize the true significance of the Adjuster’s indwelling? Do you really fathom what it means to have an absolute fragment of the absolute and infinite Deity, the Universal Father, indwelling and fusing with your finite mortal natures? When mortal man fuses with an actual fragment of the existential Cause of the total cosmos, no limit can ever be placed upon the destiny of such an unprecedented and unimaginable partnership. In eternity, man will be discovering not only the infinity of the objective Deity but also the unending potentiality of the subjective fragment of this same God. Always will the Adjuster be revealing to the mortal personality the wonder of God, and never can this supernal revelation come to an end, for the Adjuster is of God and as God to mortal man. 107:4.7  

My point being: The quote in question, which states short of attainment of the Universal Father, no revelation can be complete, must be speaking of eternity, since the above quote makes it clear that revelation never ends.

By explaining this, the authors are informing us that "final truth" is an eternal quest. No one revelation, no book, no person, can give us a full revelation of the Universal Father. That is the frankness which we are presumably mature enough to handle now. This means that the human need and desire to have infallible truth cannot be satisfied in this lifetime, only in eternity.

This is a hard pill to swallow because they are saying that not only are past revelations short of the "final truth" (attainment of the Universal Father), so is this current epochal revelation. And that opens the door to criticism and doubt, something we see frequently right here on this forum. But we are informed that we are mature enough to handle it and that the authors believe we have sufficient faith and insight to be guided through the confusion.

Here's another quote below which states that although "final truth" may be perfect, the reality of experience makes truth relative. Only on existential levels can truth and revelation be complete. I don't think we mortals will ever attain existential levels of existence. We are experiential creatures, and therefore truth and revelation will always be alive and unfolding, never ending. If truth and revelation ended, if everything was absolutely perfect, then there would be no need for experience.

Divine truth, final truth, is uniform and universal, but the story of things spiritual, as it is told by numerous individuals hailing from various spheres, may sometimes vary in details owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience. While the laws and decrees, the thoughts and attitudes, of the First Great Source and Center are eternally, infinitely, and universally true; at the same time, their application to, and adjustment for, every universe, system, world, and created intelligence, are in accordance with the plans and technique of the Creator Sons as they function in their respective universes, as well as in harmony with the local plans and procedures of the Infinite Spirit and of all other associated celestial personalities. 2:7:3

In Friendship,
Rexford


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Caligastia wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
[. . .]This is why the FER also teaches that it is our own personal progress in the spirit and in transferring the seat of our very identity that should engage us the most....our time here is brief upon this nursery of birth....the planet is not our concern and is in good hands....we are to serve while upon this bridge but the bridge is not our home or destiny or worry or responsibility! Or so I understand it. I cannot say when or how long it will be....but I am confident that any born in the era of an epochal revelation (this one being but 60 years among us) will not live here long enough to be concerned about the "next" one either. This one appears sufficient for all for a long time to come....until we start seeing some translations of fusion among us. [. . .]

I understand your overall statement "fanofVan" but I must take exception to your words above, which I have emphasized.
How can you say that "the planet is not our concern and is in good hands"? Whose concern is it, if it is not ours? Do you have access to a reality which is not presently visible around us, and are these, so called persons or celestials which you imply that this our world, "is in good hands" by these invisible beings, or do you also hear voices, or the voice of the TA, who tells you this? The Urantia Book does not present a doomsday revelation but does indicate history which has not always been righteous. How can you just leave this world assuming that you may have contributed to its current chaos and insecurities, and present this to your children and grandchildren to resolve for themselves? You also say that "we are to serve while upon this bridge but the bridge is not our home or destiny or worry or responsibility". What kind of person are you to sit back and serve yourself, and not others? It sounds like your like a rat leaving a sinking ship, and encouraging people to not give a crape about any others, because this world is in the hands of those one percent who own ninety-nine percent of the assets of this world and think that the ninety-nine percent who live below them are just animals.

That's not what Jesus taught, but it would seem that you believe that the FER teaches such things.


I'll do what I can to address your accusations and misrepresentations Cal. First, we ARE in good, experienced, capable, caring, even adoring hands, both individually and as the Shrine of Nebadon. If you don't believe that, then that's your problem...and its evidently a big problem for you. But the Revelation is certainly clear and emphatic on the point. So I am neither a rat nor will I be leaving a sinking ship when I soon depart this world. Urantia will inevitably reach L&L.

Who is sitting back? Me? Hahahahahahahaha........how would you know that? And you claim I don't give a hoot about others or our world? A cruel, if stupid, comment....sublimely ridiculous. In my many reiterations and postings of text, it should be clear I acknowledge, even embrace, the call for all tadpoles to love and to serve and so I have, and do, and will continue to every day.

The difference in our perspective is your paranoia, disappointment in God, your gloomy expectations, and suspicions of the failures of Deity and their agents in Nebadon. Those are your problems Cal, not mine.

Our world has been inhabited and in progression for a million years with over a million to go....how is any individual or generation that lives such a short time be "responsible" for planetary mortal epochs????!!!!!! We are responsible for our response-ability to find and give love and to serve others in our pursuit of truth, beauty, and goodness and in THAT way, we help the planetary servants in their planetary tasks of progression. It ain't rocket science Cal.

Finally....it's the book in your lap that tells me these things Cal....clearly and redundantly. Perhaps we might get back to the topic presented and you might stop your incessant personal attacks on my character and my beliefs? :roll: Perhaps you might find and post that text which contradicts those beliefs? And that supports your suspicions and disappointments? To be admonished by the Devil is quite hilarious to me...irony epitomized. It is the hope of the Devil that we should all tremble and fear and doubt and be impatient and disappointed and suspicious of all others all the time. Serving up mind poison for those so addicted to it. Fortunately, it is only his hope and he has no power over any....but the material and animal low mind is obviously quite capable of such perspective on its own. Gorging on poison, dying on the vine. So sad when it is considered one's own choice to embrace such evil and deny the light within. Sad indeed.

8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:08 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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We are taught that the Adjuster loses their registry number when fused with an ascender and the new personal being formed by fusion is given a name in the registry. This is considered the beginning, a successful metamorphosis and a new being of eternity and for eternity. Attainment of the Universal Father comes much later but is now a certainty to come. And we are to be joyful children through the entire adventure!

112:7.17 (1239.6) We believe that the mortals of Adjuster fusion, together with their finaliter associates, are destined to function in some manner in the administration of the universes of the first outer space level. We have not the slightest doubt that in due time these enormous galaxies will become inhabited universes. And we are equally convinced that among the administrators thereof will be found the Paradise finaliters whose natures are the cosmic consequence of the blending of creature and Creator.

112:7.18 (1239.7) What an adventure! What a romance! A gigantic creation to be administered by the children of the Supreme, these personalized and humanized Adjusters, these Adjusterized and eternalized mortals, these mysterious combinations and eternal associations of the highest known manifestation of the essence of the First Source and Center and the lowest form of intelligent life capable of comprehending and attaining the Universal Father. We conceive that such amalgamated beings, such partnerships of Creator and creature, will become superb rulers, matchless administrators, and understanding and sympathetic directors of any and all forms of intelligent life which may come into existence throughout these future universes of the first outer space level.

112:7.19 (1240.1) True it is, you mortals are of earthly, animal origin; your frame is indeed dust. But if you actually will, if you really desire, surely the heritage of the ages is yours, and you shall someday serve throughout the universes in your true characters — children of the Supreme God of experience and divine sons of the Paradise Father of all personalities.

Me: those who live in the grip of fear and mistrust are a sad spectacle of contrast for our better choices and priorities based on faith and confidence in all things and outcomes. Tadpoles need only BE tadpoles to become a frog - a fused ascender. The universe receives all that is worthy in thought and deed by all beings and no single being (but ONE) is responsible for the outcomes....which are inevitable by the way. God does not fail in his purpose, plans, and power for creation...but we may individually fail in our own by our free will choosing. It is unfortunate that there are those among us who live in fear and loathing given the glorious universe and our destiny potential and the good news presented so repletely in the FER. Fear Not! Trust in the Lord of All and in his mercy, love, and divine paternity for all children created by love and in love in service to one another.

Or so I think.

Brad 8)


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Brad,

Tadpoles become frogs, not fused ascenders. Human beings attain the Universal Father by performing certain kinds of work. By the nature of your posts I know you are inclined to the idea that the attainment of God is automatic, inevitable. You repeatedly imply that like a frog in its early stage of development, all we have to do is swim, eat and rest and by doing this eventually mature. But a man is not a frog (unless you are French).

Jesus, when a young man, did more than eat and rest. He worked. He devoted himself to certain things (family and community) and the work thereof resulted in his spiritual achievement. Nothing he attained was automatic.


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Automatic? Who ever said this? :roll: :?: 8)


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Greetings,

Attainment of the Universal Father seems to have different meanings to different people. When we, as ascending sons, (the term "ascending son" only being applied to fused personalities), reach the Universal Father on Paradise, the only attainment we have is perfection of purpose. Full attainment of the Universal Father would mean becoming totally perfect in every conceivable way, which is not the case, nor will it ever be the case.

Perfection of purpose simply means that our will's have been proven to be utterly faithful to God's will. It does NOT mean that our will and God's will are one and the same.

When, through and by the ministry of all the helper hosts of the universal scheme of survival, you are finally deposited on the receiving world of Havona, you arrive with only one sort of perfection—perfection of purpose. Your purpose has been thoroughly proved; your faith has been tested. You are known to be disappointment proof. Not even the failure to discern the Universal Father can shake the faith or seriously disturb the trust of an ascendant mortal who has passed through the experience that all must traverse in order to attain the perfect spheres of Havona. By the time you reach Havona, your sincerity has become sublime. Perfection of purpose and divinity of desire, with steadfastness of faith, have secured your entrance to the settled abodes of eternity; your deliverance from the uncertainties of time is full and complete; and now must you come face to face with the problems of Havona and the immensities of Paradise, to meet which you have so long been in training in the experiential epochs of time on the world schools of space. 26:4.6

And this brings me to the false notion that mortals achieve perfection of purpose by doing "certain kinds of work". This cannot be farther from the truth. The only thing necessary is faith in God, desire to know his will and willingness to do it. All work in the universe, when it is done with sincerity and faith in spirit guidance, is God's work. There is no "certain kind of work" that makes one man holier than another. All work is sacred in the eyes of faith-sons. (155:6:11; 192:2:13; 25:1:1)

In Friendship,
Rexford


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106:7.5 (1169.4) No matter how much you may grow in Father comprehension, your mind will always be staggered by the unrevealed infinity of the Father-I AM, the unexplored vastness of which will always remain unfathomable and incomprehensible throughout all the cycles of eternity. No matter how much of God you may attain, there will always remain much more of him, the existence of which you will not even suspect. And we believe that this is just as true on transcendental levels as it is in the domains of finite existence. The quest for God is endless!

106:7.6 (1169.5) Such inability to attain God in a final sense should in no manner discourage universe creatures; indeed, you can and do attain Deity levels of the Sevenfold, the Supreme, and the Ultimate, which mean to you what the infinite realization of God the Father means to the Eternal Son and to the Conjoint Actor in their absolute status of eternity existence. Far from harassing the creature, the infinity of God should be the supreme assurance that throughout all endless futurity an ascending personality will have before him the possibilities of personality development and Deity association which even eternity will neither exhaust nor terminate.

106:9.11 (1174.7) Sooner or later all universe personalities begin to realize that the final quest of eternity is the endless exploration of infinity, the never-ending voyage of discovery into the absoluteness of the First Source and Center. Sooner or later we all become aware that all creature growth is proportional to Father identification. We arrive at the understanding that living the will of God is the eternal passport to the endless possibility of infinity itself. Mortals will sometime realize that success in the quest of the Infinite is directly proportional to the achievement of Fatherlikeness, and that in this universe age the realities of the Father are revealed within the qualities of divinity. And these qualities of divinity are personally appropriated by universe creatures in the experience of living divinely, and to live divinely means actually to live the will of God.

106:9.12 (1175.1) To material, evolutionary, finite creatures, a life predicated on the living of the Father’s will leads directly to the attainment of spirit supremacy in the personality arena and brings such creatures one step nearer the comprehension of the Father-Infinite. Such a Father life is one predicated on truth, sensitive to beauty, and dominated by goodness. Such a God-knowing person is inwardly illuminated by worship and outwardly devoted to the wholehearted service of the universal brotherhood of all personalities, a service ministry which is filled with mercy and motivated by love, while all these life qualities are unified in the evolving personality on ever-ascending levels of cosmic wisdom, self-realization, God-finding, and Father worship.


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Rexford wrote:
"All work is sacred in the eyes of faith-sons."

I am only trying to encourage thought about the specifics of what we ought to be doing as mortal human beings. I think it matters a lot. It seems to me that some do not. If Jesus' life is an example of what we should be doing, what is it about the "certain things" he did specifically that differentiates his achievements from those of others?

*My point might be failing to lift off.

If any work is good, would Jesus have achieved what he did (before his baptism) doing something other than what he did in his life?


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111:1.6 (1217.1) Mind is the cosmic instrument on which the human will can play the discords of destruction, or upon which this same human will can bring forth the exquisite melodies of God identification and consequent eternal survival. The Adjuster bestowed upon man is, in the last analysis, impervious to evil and incapable of sin, but mortal mind can actually be twisted, distorted, and rendered evil and ugly by the sinful machinations of a perverse and self-seeking human will. Likewise can this mind be made noble, beautiful, true, and good — actually great — in accordance with the spirit-illuminated will of a God-knowing human being.

:wink:


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