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I think that the soul never leaves the thought adjuster. not sure though...

I dont know if the thought adjuster need's any transport unit.....


My guess is that immediately after death, the thought adjuster will either decide as to wether the soul is to be a sleeping survivor or if it is to go to be translated to the morontia worlds.


I think the souls a bit complicated for mortals to understand..... My guess is that because it is the offspring of the mind and thought adjuster that it resembles in form the combination of the thought adjuster and human personality.

I Guess if we are as Wolve's than our soul will probably be weak and unable to hold a form enough to live on the mansion worlds.

I suppose that the 1st mansion world where we are somewhat physical is a place for people who have small soul's, and than the nursery world I suppose would be the most semi material of all "inbetween worlds". Where children who have not yet evoled a soul that can survive on its own go to.

I am just sortah writing off the top of the mind though ahahha, I havent thought about thist stuff to much.

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boomshuka wrote: “I think that the soul never leaves the thought adjuster.

not sure though... I dont know if the thought adjuster need's any transport unit.....
My guess is that immediately after death, the thought adjuster will either decide as to wether the soul is to be a sleeping survivor or if it is to go to be translated to the morontia worlds.
I think the souls a bit complicated for mortals to understand..... My guess is that because it is the offspring of the mind and thought adjuster that it resembles in form the combination of the thought adjuster and human personality.
I Guess if we are as Wolve's than our soul will probably be weak and unable to hold a form enough to live on the mansion worlds.
I suppose that the 1st mansion world where we are somewhat physical is a place for people who have small soul's, and than the nursery world I suppose would be the most semi material of all "inbetween worlds". Where children who have not yet evoled a soul that can survive on its own go to.
I am just sortah writing off the top of the mind though ahahha, I havent thought about thist stuff to much.”


A response..
The Mystery Monitor leaves the soul at death and goes to Divinington, and it reunites on the First Mansion World at the time of resurrection.
The Mystery Monitor need not be transported because of energy circuits.

The Mystery Monitor makes no decision in regards to its charge (the mortal; eg: ‘Soul’).

Since it leaves immediately upon death it does not determine the survivability of the individual.

I would agree that the ‘Soul’ is indeed rather complicated for humans to understand as is the concept of eternity, infinity and even many with the concepts of Absolute and Absonite.

(IMO) confusion is apparent with personality, individuality, character, mind, emotion and ‘Soul’ with the Mystery Monitor (TA). These are different facets of the same gem.

(IMO) I would respectfully disagree with you that ‘Soul’ is and offspring of mind, since the mind matrix is held for the moment of resurrection on Mansion World Number One. Like ‘Soul’, personality is a unique aspect as is individuality and character. Humor is shared, yet each individual has its own sense of humor as they do mind.

(IMO) Angels, for example, do not posses a ‘Soul’, for none is needed. Angels are Spirit beings as our Mystery Monitor is, and therefore Spirit beings as created are probably ‘Soul’less.

A dog or wolf or animal as such do not have ‘soul’s, because of the mere face that they are not aware beyond themselves as to God or the creation around themselves.

“I think…therefore I am.” Is not found in the animal.

(IMO) The ‘Soul’ of mortal man (and woman) is immortal, and as such is an eternal value, that value being derived from the Father of all. The ‘Soul’ of the mortal is immortal (eternal) and the evolution of this ‘Soul’ evolves to the Morontia “Soul’ as potential is realized when survival is assured.

(IMO) ‘Soul’ is neither qualitative or quantitive, as an eternal value, and it is this value that enables the human to worship the Father without the need of even the Mystery Monitor (TA). Many think the way to the Father is through the Mystery Monitor, and to be sure it is a tool, but not the only one we have.

(IMO) Once again I would submit that each human born is born with a ‘Soul’ as witnessed by the baby which communicates on levels that we have yet to understand. Certainly, a child that has not reached its first moral decision is not been endowed with a Mystery Monitor, but ‘Soul’ is ever present as is personality.

(IMO) The ‘Soul’ of the human is in continual communion or perhaps I might put it as instinctually with the Father of all, since it is derived from that source. Perhaps conscience mind cannot perceive this link, but in my opinion it exists nonetheless.


So my young friend, some food for thought?

Keep your thoughts coming!

Always remember, we are all teachers and students (or is that students and teachers).

Thanks for your thoughts

A Jessean


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hahah I meant as "wolves" like as in a wolf in sheep's clothing. hahah basically if we are bordering on iniquity what would our souls resemble....

Yea there is alot in the Urantia Book that I forget and the topic of what happens after death is one of them, alot of the time I can remember fragments of lines hahah but unfortunetly I only have an average to perhaps subaverage memory :(.....hahaha but after all though can you blame me only 9 year's of reading, I dont yet got that 48 or so years ;). hahaha

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Boomshuka -- why are you trying to explain things here when you really don't understand them? Wouldn't it be better to ask an intelligent question and hope for an intelligent answer -- or do some research first and then explain what you've learned and ask for clarification. Anybody can say they once "read the book" but have forgotten most of it. If you have something to contribute then please do, otherwise, what's the point?

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lwatkins wrote:
Boomshuka -- why are you trying to explain things here when you really don't understand them? Wouldn't it be better to ask an intelligent question and hope for an intelligent answer -- or do some research first and then explain what you've learned and ask for clarification. Anybody can say they once "read the book" but have forgotten most of it. If you have something to contribute then please do, otherwise, what's the point?

Larry


I am guessing you thought I was completly wrong about how the soul is the offspring of the mind and the thought adjuster. I am only quoting jessean to defend myself in that he is speculating as I am and so is everyone, and yet you are singling me out.... Again here is speculation from jessean.

"(IMO) ‘Soul’ is neither qualitative or quantitive, as an eternal value, and it is this value that enables the human to worship the Father without the need of even the Mystery Monitor (TA). Many think the way to the Father is through the Mystery Monitor, and to be sure it is a tool, but not the only one we have."

And his statement is contradicted in this U.B statement in which I was referring to in my prevous post.

"1218.8 111:2.10 The inevitable result of such a contactual spiritualization of the human mind is the gradual birth of a soul the -JOINT OFFSPRING- of an adjutant mind dominated by a human will that craves to know God, working in liaison with the spiritual forces of the universe which are under the overcontrol of an actual fragment of the very God of all creation — the Mystery Monitor."

Again it's not difficult to see that the "birth of a soul" is the "offspring" of the mind working in liason with thought adjuster of which under its control are the spiritual forces.So clearly the Thought Adjuster and the mind give birth to the soul.Again jessean and you I am sure assumed I was 100 percent wrong without u.b proof, it does not matter I dont take offense.

This simple fact leads into my next point about young children with "small" souls, the reason I brought this up was just to try and find information in the Urantia Book regarding "INBETWEEN" which is the topic of conversation in this forum, and I thought perhaps that the description or nature of Nursery Worlds may offer some value information regarding jessean's interest in the "inbetween", also because in this conversation there was mention and question about what happen's to the soul and what is the soul.

Anyway's Clearly because the thought adjuster does not arrive " on the average, just prior to the sixth birthday" than it is clear that these children's evolutionary soul's will be not as developed as a mature adult, seing as they have just at 6 year's old began to the ability to have souls when they have their first morale choice as the Urantia book states. .Not to mention as Dr. Chris Halvorson has pointed out that in the Urantia book , it is possible for a child to die young and if both his parents are Iniquitous and fail to survive the child will fail to survive. Again this is in the urantia book and I will find where it talks about this seemingly very rear situation if I must for the sole purpose of defending my point about how children's souls are not as developed as a mature adult's who are concentrated on the father's will. and I can quote chris from the cosmic citizen radio show on this phenomon and go and find a quote If I must I know this website has a great deal of respect for his ability to interpret the Urantia Book and so do I.

Again jessean made statement's contradicting all those points in the Urantia book without providing evidence, again it doesn't matter though who is right or wrong. Interpereting the Urantia Book wrong is something we all do, we all make mistake's, and we should as jessean said all keep trying our best.

Again I will find these quotes to substantiate all my claim's if I have to.


I made one major urantia book reference error in this recent posting in which I APOLOGISED for again.

"I think that the soul never leaves the thought adjuster. not sure though.."


The rest of what I said was a response to Jesseans hypothetical "IN BETWEEN" world, in which I responded in opinion format to a hypothetical situation.. Just as every other person has responded hypothetically to Jesseans' question about an "in between". The entire premise of this conversation " inbetween" is speculation. Yet you are singling out my speculation.

The other statement that I made that you had a major issue with regarding the Urantia Book was my statement about how we would be physically intimate with material son's in daughters if we had not done so this life.

Even though I was wrong about that I was not 100 percent wrong, and as stated we will have intimate and close personal association with a Material son or daughter if we do not become intimate with someone in this life, and again I was somewhat wrong in stating the physical aspect of our intimacy but I APOLOGISED for my error.

The 3rd posting you had a serious issue with was what I posted about the unusual conversation I had, and I agreed to never bring that up in this forum as I agreed it is innapropriate for this setting.

It seem's you are taking what I say very seriously. Why dont you just voice your real issue with me.

Most of my post's have been about my simple intention about how much I love the Father, and how motivated I am to grow in love for my brothers and sister's. If you go threw all of my post's there is a clear direction in where I am going.

I don't care how much I know about the Urantia Book it doesn't matter anyway's, and to be honest I do know alot, alot more than I let on but I am not interested in that I dont want to quote the urantia book endlessly because I will never make any friends on this forum doing that, everyone at some point will think I am preaching to them.

All that I believe that matter's is our -desire- to do the father's will and our -desire- to do good to other's, and most of my post's if you go threw them have been orientated around both my appreciation and desire of the father, and my appreciation and desire to love human beings more and more. I know the spirit of jesus teaching's and I am trying my best to live them.

I can quote the Urantia verbadum if you like, but I doubt I will make as many friends with that approach.

This entire conversation and topic of debate has been all speculation.

Again I just admited to this forum that I made a mistake in my post in remembering some of the fact's of the Urantia book papers. why don't you lay off buddy how many times do I have to apologize for making a mistake in my remembering of the book to satisfy you? I said I made a mistake already in that I did not remember that part of the book as it was stated. It does not bother me that I made a mistake in remembering that section of thee book, I doubt most reader's had that section memorized as it was stated anyway's, I doubt you did. So I am not embarrased and don't consider my mistake a huge deal, why are you taking what I say so seriously?

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Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
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Boomshuka,
"It seem's you are taking what I say very seriously. Why dont you just voice your real issue with me." I have no issue with you. I realize it's difficult for anyone to be criticized and not take it personally -- sorry. Yes, I take what occurs on the discussion board seriously -- the discussion can be lighthearted and fun or it can be serious -- but in all cases its purpose and intent is taken seriously by the board admin. I believe the 3 of us administrators are mature enough that we don't hold grudges, don't single anyone out for personal reasons, don't pick on members arbitrarily but I know that whenever problems with anyone's posts are pointed out to them they take it personally.

Since this is a forum for the discussion of the teachings of The Urantia Book we expect that the information, philosophies, facts, meanings, values posted reflect those teachings and don't wander far astray from them. Anyone can devise their own philosophy of life, their own meanings loosely based on what they find in The Urantia Book if that's what they choose to do -- but if they want to have a discussion here then they'll have to stick more closely to the actual teachings of the book.

Larry


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Hi Boomshuka. I agree with Larry. These discussions must be guarded against overly speculative claims which may not be supported by TUB. It’s not about making friends, but I certainly don’t think you will make less friends or loose friends here by including the exact TUB references that support what you are saying. For that, you can use the Truthbook search facility here: http://www.truthbook.com/search/UBParagraphs_VSearchForm.cfm. :)

And just to set some conceptual definitions straight:
Quote:
0:5.10 Soul. The soul of man is an experiential acquirement. As a mortal creature chooses to “do the will of the Father in heaven,” so the indwelling spirit becomes the father of a new reality in human experience. The mortal and material mind is the mother of this same emerging reality. The substance of this new reality is neither material nor spiritual — it is morontial. This is the emerging and immortal soul which is destined to survive mortal death and begin the Paradise ascension.

0:5.11 Personality. The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality. The personality is the unique bestowal which the Universal Father makes upon the living and associated energies of matter, mind, and spirit, and which survives with the survival of the morontial soul.

0:5.12 Morontia is a term designating a vast level intervening between the material and the spiritual. It may designate personal or impersonal realities, living or nonliving energies. The warp of morontia is spiritual; its woof is physical.


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Yes Bart, and I don't think what I was saying was in contradiction of any of those definition's never the less I will quote the book more to support my statements , I suppose that search engine will help.

I do still feel like endlessly quoting the book is the equivelant of being a "troll" ie -someone who is trying to dominate the conversation- or someone who is trying to teach/preach, but I will ablidge.

Cleary you are right bart "it is not about making friends".

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Last edited by boomshuka on Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:30 pm +0000, edited 4 times in total.

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Again I will post another quote from the U.B to back up my opinion's. The opinion that I am backing up right now is my assertion that the soul is the "offspring" of the mind and thought adjuster.

"(1218.5) 111:2.7 3. The relationship between material mind and divine spirit, which connotes a value and carries a meaning not found in either of the contributing factors to such an association. The reality of this unique relationship is neither material nor spiritual but morontial. It is the soul."

The only reason I keep bring up the Soul in relation to this Forum of topic, is because the revelators mention it in relation to the "BORDERLAND". Which is relevant to this topic of "INBETWEEN".

(1233.7) 112:5.11 There are two difficulties that hamper my efforts to explain just what happens to you in death, the surviving you which is distinct from the departing Adjuster. One of these consists in the impossibility of conveying to your level of comprehension an adequate description of a transaction on the BORDERLAND of the physical and morontia realms. The other is brought about by the restrictions placed upon my commission as a revelator of truth by the celestial governing authorities of Urantia. There are many interesting details which might be presented, but I withhold them upon the advice of your immediate planetary supervisors. But within the limits of my permission I can say this much:

(1234.1) 112:5.12 There is something real, something of human evolution, something additional to the Mystery Monitor, which survives death. This newly appearing entity is the soul, and it survives the death of both your physical body and your material mind. This entity is the conjoint child of the combined life and efforts of the human you in liaison with the divine you, the Adjuster. This CHILD of human and divine parentage constitutes the surviving element of terrestrial origin; it is the morontia self, the immortal soul.

-Again I point out -CHILD- to further prove my opinion regarding the soul as the -Offspring- of the mind and divine monitor. The -child- metaphor the revelator's use further give evidence to my other posting's regarding the soul.

(1234.2) 112:5.13 This child of persisting meaning and surviving value is wholly unconscious during the period from death to repersonalization and is in the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardian throughout this season of waiting. You will not function as a conscious being, following death, until you attain the new consciousness of morontia on the mansion worlds of Satania.

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Thank you one and all for your thoughts and other comments.
I am concerned with the current tennor.

A Jessean


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This is another example of how much more I understand something once I take a break, and then read over it again. It also helps me to hear/read another's discussion on a matter. I've had difficulty comprehending exactly what a "soul" constitutes and must have breezed through these quotes multiple times but it continued to fly over my head. This time something finally clicked in my brain.
Quote:
"(1218.5) 111:2.7 3. The relationship between material mind and divine spirit, which connotes a value and carries a meaning not found in either of the contributing factors to such an association. The reality of this unique relationship is neither material nor spiritual but morontial. It is the soul."

Quote:
(1234.1) 112:5.12 There is something real, something of human evolution, something additional to the Mystery Monitor, which survives death. This newly appearing entity is the soul, and it survives the death of both your physical body and your material mind. This entity is the conjoint child of the combined life and efforts of the human you in liaison with the divine you, the Adjuster. This CHILD of human and divine parentage constitutes the surviving element of terrestrial origin; it is the morontia self, the immortal soul.

I've heard others use the term that we are "building a soul" but never quite got it. This puts it into a more manageable perspective for me. It's also a humble reminder that when our brains (along with our egos) tell us how intelligent and spiritually superior we are over others...we are, in reality, simply children.

As far as the Borderland, or In Between...this Child of God will find out about it when she enters that realm. Or...sleeps through it.

Good Sunday to All :P

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)


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Greetings One and All....
How about some thoughts? Between Here and There...

On many occasions I’ve disagreed with the Midwayers presentment on purely ‘technical’ issues. The ‘borderland’ presentment is indeed one of those disagreements. It also further illustrates how important that we strive to go beyond those presentments in the UB.

From the time of graduation from the mansion worlds to the attainment of spirit status in the superuniverse career, ascending mortals are denominated morontia progressors. Your passage through this wonderful borderland life will be an unforgettable experience, a charming memory. It is the evolutionary portal to spirit life and the eventual attainment of creature perfection by which ascenders achieve the goal of time--the finding of God on Paradise.
Verses
There are two difficulties that hamper my efforts to explain just what happens to you in death, the surviving you which is distinct from the departing Adjuster. One of these consists in the impossibility of conveying to your level of comprehension an adequate description of a transaction on the borderland of the physical and morontia realms. The other is brought about by the restrictions placed upon my commission as a revelator of truth by the celestial governing authorities of Urantia. There are many interesting details which might be presented, but I withhold them upon the advice of your immediate planetary supervisors. But within the limits of my permission I can say this much:

The Midwayers either did not think the confusion of two descriptions of ‘borderland’, (Morontia and the Urantia Periphery-land (my definition, not theirs) that which is in-between physical and Morontia significant to distinguish or they did not want to bemired and ‘boged’ down in the plethora of dialogue (conversations) of these two distinctly different ‘places’. IMO I do think it is a ‘place’, that which is in the actual (I use this term sparingly) realm of the citizen of this planet. The ‘transport pole’ of this planet distinctly reflects the interaction of the citizens of this planet (Midwayers both Primary and Secondary) and those of us that sojourn.

Perhaps a substitution of the word Urantia Periphery-land would have help clarify the distinction, that two places are being described. It says the same thing, but enables descriptions of another ‘place’.



There are two difficulties that hamper my efforts to explain just what happens to you in death, the surviving you which is distinct from the departing Adjuster. One of these consists in the impossibility of conveying to your level of comprehension an adequate description of a transaction on the (borderland)Urantia Periphery-land) of the physical and morontia realms. The other is brought about by the restrictions placed upon my commission as a revelator of truth by the celestial governing authorities of Urantia. There are many interesting details which might be presented, but I withhold them upon the advice of your immediate planetary supervisors. But within the limits of my permission I can say this much:



Seumas
"Gràdh is gur; Creud an bith dhìot is
bith bhur luchd-seilbhe bith."


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The u.b does say that we lose consciousness at the moment of death, so whatever happens we will probably need to be plugged back in on the morontia world to find out.

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Soon this will be understood...

Seumas


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Hello once again.... back to this subject...new folks...perhaps new thinking....been a couple of years...

Had a bit of a Rowe last go around so…. Not to ruffle feathers but the subject is Border Land still….

I’ve not been back to this forum in many-a-moon. Since this forum tackle in-depth issues and seem to think a little out-of-the-box so I would pose a question of knowledge and perhaps some speculations.
The subject: Border Land.
Is Border Land part of a dimension or is it a dimension in and of itself?
It is my understanding that the U book hints at twelve dimensions (eleven which is postulated currently by the human species).
When one does a search on Border Land in the U book we have precious little, yet it seems to be our next immediate destination upon graduation from the flesh and should be fairly important in our life career.
So I put it too the most learner-ed in this illustrious membership; what are your views not only from the U-book, but your own speculation as well….don’t be shy … it is all in good fun and perhaps we may reason together on path’s yet uncovered and discovered!
None are immune from the graduation from the flesh and it appears all of us shall venture into this realm; if my fifty-three years of study has creditability at all. (ooops I dangled a participle I think ).
We who are; about to embark upon this new wondrous journey are captivated by the interaction of those that already reside in this realm and the ultimate joy they experience.
Does this mean that memory may reside in part or in total from this realm to that realm?

Does emotion have reality utilizing memory?

Does the fragment of the Father depart later, rather than at the time of graduation?

Is the energy pole activation relative to this graduation place us in Border Land; but not departure of that “spirit” portion of the ‘us’ we know as Thought controller (known by most as a Thought Adjuster)?

I’ve done searches on emotion in the U book, but as in the Border Land it has been found wanting as well. Yet emotion was found in the Master and in; apparently; all; spirit beings. Is emotion the actual ‘trigger’ that enables graduation to the Border Land?
Perhaps both emotion and “spiritualization” must go hand in hand and as such enable dimensional traversing to and from the Border Land itself?

I must admit the U book has opened a plethora of concepts such as Absolute, Absonite, Infinite and Eternal that one’s mind cannot rationalize adequately, and only the processing by the ‘soul’ itself have the ability to even begin to come close to a smiggen of understanding and so it seems the Border Land phenomenon. If the “I” in myself were an island of self, then the Border Land would have no relevance it and of itself, yet, not and island is the “I” and thus the need both emotional and mental to explore this state of being.

Respectfully, Seumas


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