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dkr315d wrote:
Lucifer?, Why did God allow him here? I want to read about this. If this changed things for us, then there must have been a reason. I want to know what the reason was for allowing this. Where is this in the UB? Yes, I already know, If I would read the book I would know, but quide me to what I am looking for.


FREE WILL Debbie. We all have Free Will including Lucifer. Read about why God allowed Potential Evil to exist along with Good HERE. Scroll down to the heading "Good and Evil" Here's a small excerpt:

132:2.10 The possibility of evil is necessary to moral choosing, but not the actuality thereof. A shadow is only relatively real. Actual evil is not necessary as a personal experience. Potential evil acts equally well as a decision stimulus in the realms of moral progress on the lower levels of spiritual development. Evil becomes a reality of personal experience only when a moral mind makes evil its choice.

You can find this in your book in PAPER 132: THE SOJOURN AT ROME.

You can find the story of the THE LUCIFER REBELLION in PAPER 53: HERE

Debbie you can ask me anytime you want to find something. There's two other excerpts on Good and Evil that are very very good at answering this CLASSIC question of why God ALLOWS EVIL TO EXIST. And when you find the answer it's so liberating. I don't have my daughter’s computer anymore so I'm on a PC at the Library. Perhaps Iris or someone here can share the story of Jesus explaining why Good and Evil exists to Ganid. And on around Page 56 in Big Blue how the challenges we meet in the world help us to develop strong positive attributes, like Courage, Perseverance, Love, Happiness, Joy, Wisdom, Strength, Will Power, etc. etc. etc. :o

Bless You Debbie. Keep asking your questions and seeking answers, you're on the verge of major spiritual discover. Don't stop now! :smile:

May the Lord Our God be with you and guide you in your search for answers to these eternally important questions. Amen. :smile:

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Debbie

I find it very interesting that your posts reveal (at least to me) that you want it all handed TO you rather than having to seek out the truth for yourself, or live a life exemplifying your relationship with God

You would find that revelation is personal and lasting if you would "be still" and KNOW that He is God. We can all tell you our own experiences in God, but we cannot hand an experiential revelation to you.

You keep asking for everyone to do your seeking for you... you will find "God" but it will be everyone else's "God". In other words, knowing God is a very personal matter, a personal spiritual experience that you must have in your self... not someone else's experience.

Yes, you can "function" as a "religious" person or live a "good" life, but until YOU find God in yourself BEFORE you "experience" Him in others, you will not really "own" your own experience and ultimately share Him with others.

Seek Him early and you will find Him!

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...permit the word of truth to strike down into the heart with living roots 177:5.2


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There is nothing wrong with asking for guidance from other people..... If you don't ask you will never know...



I love your questions Debbie....



Love Sarah

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Righteousness strikes the harmony chords of truth and the melody vibrates throughout the cosmos, even to the recognition of the infinite.... UB


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Tasneem wrote:
There is nothing wrong with asking for guidance from other people..... If you don't ask you will never know...


I love your questions Debbie....


Love Sarah


I agree with Tasneem, Debbie. Let me know if any of those links helped. The Lucifer One was one I first read when I began to read TUB again after I rejected TUB as bogus the first time I picked it up.

Now I think if I recommended one book as a my favorite and most important read during my life it would be TUB. :smile:

Peace be us all. :smile:

Debbie you mention you and your husband being Catholic at some time. Check out this post I made on a Catholic site about last Sunday's (11-16-08) readings. I think most people here and many progressive Catholics can understand how I could get that kind of meaning from the readings. traditional ones might think it was blasphemous. Let me know what you think Debbie. (click on the blue link) :smile:

The Worthiness of Women in today's Scripture Readings
http://ncrcafe.org/node/2287

God's Blessings to all.

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we need religion to know the meaning of life and then to pursue it for our greatest peace and joy. everyone has an overall understanding but tub gives us many specifics which we can add to our understanding the first one of which that stands out is 1:0.3 God-knowing creatures have only one supreme ambition, just one consuming desire, and that is to become, as they are in their spheres, like him as he is in his Paradise perfection of personality and in his universal sphere of righteous supremacy.

no one is more worthy of anyone else for perfection. 49:5.18 These three orders (the one two or three brained) stand on an equal footing in the ascension career. Each must traverse the same intellectual scale of development, and each must master the same spiritual tests of progression. The system administration and the constellation overcontrol of these different worlds are uniformly free from discrimination; even the regimes of the Planetary Princes are identical.

dkr315d wrote:
People search out religions for one reason, to secure their place in the afterlife, or next life. Everyone in their mind knows right from wrong. You know when you have done something that is wrong. Why does anyone need religion to tell them right from wrong? I do not want to belong to any faith that tells me the "rules", I already know them. I do not HAVE to believe ANYTHING, all I really have to do is try to live a life that, for the most part, I do not cause pain of any kind to another human being. I'm sure I do from time to time, but I know when I do this and I am sorry for it. I'm not going to progress at a high rate of speed to the next level, I'm just an ordinary person, I'm not perfect.
I have a lot of questions about life, but don't really expect to find the answers. Would be nice if "someone" would land right in my living room and talk to me, but NO. If I created a planet and filled it with people, I would do whatever it took to comunicate with them, If someone really wanted answers, I would give them answers. So I have to take from the silence, that you really don't need an answers. And the people who say they have spoken to midwayer's or whatever, I ask myself, what makes so much more worthy of this then me? I think that the "rules" that certain religions pose to you are bullshit. I may not get an "A" in my life test, but I don't think you need an A to pass, maybe I will just not advace as fast, but that's OK with me. If the next life is as enjoyable as this, I can wait for the one that follows.


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maryjo606 wrote:
Yes - read all about Lucifer, and the defult of our Adam and Eve. You'll get a real clear understanding of just why things are the way they are here. It is not God's fault, and it is not your fault, and it's not my fault, but it is what it is, and we are still paying the price for others' misdeeds.
We do need answers - at least I do, and that is why The UB has been such a gift to my life. Just understanding WHY things are so hard here helps to make it better...

BUT - there is a silver lining. Did you know that many celestial beings actually ENVY the mortals of Urantia? They envy that we get to forge out our faith in God through experience, because that means that once we get it, it is ours forever. We EARN our faith and we EARN our eternal life as few other planetary mortals do. We are called agondonters:


This is what has given me tons of hope! And not just blind hope, but I well understand how this is so. Without our own doing we are in a situation where we must work hard to know God. However, hard work is always rewarded in the universe. God will find such tasks for us that we will be able to put into use the skills we have learned in Urantia.


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the meaning of life is our paradise pursuit. 16:4.7 Much, very much, of the activity of the Seven Master Spirits remains hidden from human understanding because in no way does it directly pertain to your problem of Paradise ascent.

i've read some of that stuff and i've stopped in on theosophy groups with blavatsky as the main books used.

As-Above-So-Below wrote:
Rich: Regarding the meaning of Life, not sure we can understand that until we understand death better but, I mainly have been waiting for someone to bring up "(the one two or three brained)" phrase. In my reading of the UB, I took this to memory but, really was not sure of what to make of it until I came across them in two other outside texts. I don’t wish to get into their possible meaning at this time but, I was vary intrigued that I would find these identical phrases in the following:

H.P. BLAVATSKY “THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY” (A simple exposition based on the Wisdom-Religion of All Ages),
Which lead me to look back in my copies of “THE SECRET DOCTRINE” and “ISIS UNVEILED”.

And, an actual physical description along with an analogical usage of these terms in:
G. I. GURDJIEFF “Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson” (ALL AND EVERYTHING) First Series.

Very Interesting parallels. Have you read either?


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Regaring the Meaning of Life, how about this little gem?
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130:4.7 Life is an adaptation of the original cosmic causation to the demands and possibilities of universe situations, and it comes into being by the action of the Universal Mind and the activation of the spirit spark of the God who is spirit. The meaning of life is its adaptability; the value of life is its progressability—even to the heights of God-consciousness.

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StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


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Oh that's good...

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160:1.5 Animals respond nobly to the urge of life, but only man can attain the art of living, albeit the majority of mankind only experience the animal urge to live. Animals know only this blind and instinctive urge; man is capable of transcending this urge to natural function. Man may elect to live upon the high plane of intelligent art, even that of celestial joy and spiritual ecstasy. Animals make no inquiry into the purposes of life; therefore they never worry, neither do they commit suicide. Suicide among men testifies that such beings have emerged from the purely animal stage of existence, and to the further fact that the exploratory efforts of such human beings have failed to attain the artistic levels of mortal experience. Animals know not the meaning of life; man not only possesses capacity for the recognition of values and the comprehension of meanings, but he also is conscious of the meaning of meanings — he is self-conscious of insight.

it is unfortunate that most people sit around at home and smoke cigarettes and watch televison or only experience the animal urge to live. they may be self-conscious of insight but it's hard to see that.

boomshuka wrote:
Regaring the Meaning of Life, how about this little gem?
Quote:
130:4.7 Life is an adaptation of the original cosmic causation to the demands and possibilities of universe situations, and it comes into being by the action of the Universal Mind and the activation of the spirit spark of the God who is spirit. The meaning of life is its adaptability; the value of life is its progressability—even to the heights of God-consciousness.


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rich.sachs wrote:
160:1.5 Animals respond nobly to the urge of life, but only man can attain the art of living, albeit the majority of mankind only experience the animal urge to live. Animals know only this blind and instinctive urge; man is capable of transcending this urge to natural function. Man may elect to live upon the high plane of intelligent art, even that of celestial joy and spiritual ecstasy. Animals make no inquiry into the purposes of life; therefore they never worry, neither do they commit suicide. Suicide among men testifies that such beings have emerged from the purely animal stage of existence, and to the further fact that the exploratory efforts of such human beings have failed to attain the artistic levels of mortal experience. Animals know not the meaning of life; man not only possesses capacity for the recognition of values and the comprehension of meanings, but he also is conscious of the meaning of meanings — he is self-conscious of insight.

it is unfortunate that most people sit around at home and smoke cigarettes and watch televison or only experience the animal urge to live. they may be self-conscious of insight but it's hard to see that.

boomshuka wrote:
Regaring the Meaning of Life, how about this little gem?
Quote:
130:4.7 Life is an adaptation of the original cosmic causation to the demands and possibilities of universe situations, and it comes into being by the action of the Universal Mind and the activation of the spirit spark of the God who is spirit. The meaning of life is its adaptability; the value of life is its progressability—even to the heights of God-consciousness.



Can we be sure that even us reader's are not functioning as just super-animals? It would seem as though most human beings are in fact functioning on the animal plane of existance. Infact only a "very few" are not!.


(192.5) 16:6.9 These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures. The experience of living never fails to develop these three cosmic intuitions; they are constitutive in the self-consciousness of reflective thinking. But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking.

16:6.10 And it is these three cosmic intuitions that give objective validity, reality, to man’s experience in and with things, meanings, and values.

193.3) 16:7.4 As a result of experience an animal becomes able to examine the different ways of attaining a goal and to select an approach based on accumulated experience. But a personality can also examine the goal itself and pass judgment on its worth-whileness, its value. Intelligence alone can discriminate as to the best means of attaining indiscriminate ends, but a moral being possesses an insight which enables him to discriminate between ends as well as between means. And a moral being in choosing virtue is nonetheless intelligent. He knows what he is doing, why he is doing it, where he is going, and how he will get there.

(193.4) 16:7.5 When man fails to discriminate the ends of his mortal striving, he finds himself functioning on the animal level of existence. He has failed to avail himself of the superior advantages of that material acumen, moral discrimination, and spiritual insight which are an integral part of his cosmic-mind endowment as a personal being.

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StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


Last edited by boomshuka on Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:53 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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yes, I do Larry....when I am at home and can just close my eye...thanks!

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boomshuka wrote:
(193.4) 16:7.5 When man fails to discriminate the ends of his mortal striving, he finds himself functioning on the animal level of existence. He has failed to avail himself of the superior advantages of that material acumen, moral discrimination, and spiritual insight which are an integral part of his cosmic-mind endowment as a personal being.


with tub reading people would open their minds so much more but so few people seek this book out for whatever reason, i guess the angels are just not cultivating such amongst humans right now.


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