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Are women treated different than men on the internet?
Yes 65%  65%  [ 11 ]
No 35%  35%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 17
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I was posting a reply to Gerdean on another thread and I figured it might be time again to try this discussion.

When I first came to Truthbook this last time, (that makes a lot of sense doesn't it! :smile: ) I signed up for this blog and posted something that I was really interested in. My very first post on this site was on the feminine aspects of God as supported in TUB.

Nobody bit. I saw that neither the women nor men here were ready for that discussion. No interest. Or no faith that it could lead to something productive.

That was in fact the reason I came here. Because TUB had more evidence supporting this than any other source I had found up to that time.

Surprisingly the most receptive site I've found to the feminine perspective is National Catholic Reporter NCR. And even there it's a hard sell. The conservatives will insists that men’s and women’s roles are clearly defined and women belong and are best at the callings at the bottom while the men as outlined by Jesus are best suited at the head of the Church, the house, the whatever organization it is.

So anyway that's why you'll see a few links and excerpts from NCR in Fetish's thread on that.

Over time this dichotomy or paradox (the male/female perspective) was touched on in a few threads. I "The mark of the beast" thread. Colter's friend Gerry got into some very good discussions with Randy that somewhat highlighted the conflict of perspectives.

In Abners, Gerdean almost bailed out on a wonderful 7 adjutant mind spirit, 7 psychic circles, 7 chakras discussions that bore many fruits when Tramp Swan threaten censorship when it appear to him some TM stuff might have been creeping in. Truth Bill got an "A" in that class for a fantastic, colorful and detail graphical side by side demonstration of the characteristics and the traits of those concepts. Many people joined in and enjoyed the journey of investigation and research.

Recently Iris and many women and men at this site were engaged on various threads. Iris and Tasneem had a great discussion on Islam and Spirituality. There were personality conflicts as usual but there was also value in many of the posts. After Iris' censorship the feminine "voice" quieted down quite a bit.

Fetish picked it up. Jak and Gerdean and myself picked up on a feminine "voice" that was being expressed through Fetishes posts.

And so that very brief summary of a few points brings me to Gerdean's post:

Quote:
It's funny because -- as a truthbook lurker -- I didn't appreciate Fetish when I thought she was male; I thought she was hard-edged and brittle, but recognizing her now as female, I perceive of her as courageous and loyal - enough that she would clarify that the Adjuster lives in the mind, not in the brain; one is part of the spiritual circuits, the other is material.

Just today I was reading about Jesus daring attitude about women. He issued the emancipation proclamation which set free all women for all time; no more was man to look upon woman as his spiritual inferior."
... "And this liberation of women, giving them due recognition, was practiced by the apostles immediately after the Master's departure" (not counting their rudeness to Mary Magdalene) "albeit they fell back to the olden customs in subsequent generations."
Where they remain today.

I think over half of our tendency to get uppity with one another is gender based ... based on this very problem. Very very few women rise to the level of esteem that men take for granted,


Gerdean as well as Colter's friend Gerry and other women have raised several of these points before. Almost categorically some Male or female has denied them.

Point one: Women are treated different than men on the internet. Most will say false but actually from my experience, it is true. I'll bet more women will say that is true than men.

Point Two: The TUB quote Gerdean gave about how men rapidly reverted to their unjust treatment of women AS SOON AS JESUS DIED. and as Gerdean added, "Where they remain today." Again a very LOUD and Resounding TRUE!

Point Three: "I think over half of our tendency to get uppity with one another is gender based ... based on this very problem." This one I have to respond like a male and point out and focus on the quantitative question "How do we know it's half!" While to the women the most important part of this question might be the qualitative answer that a problem of conflict exists based on gender perspective.

And Point Four: "Very very few women rise to the level of esteem that men take for granted." Again a resounding TRUE!

I believe it is very true what Gerdean says about the way male and female personas are treated differently and it's very plain on the internet, if you spend some time in the opposite persona. I was a female on AOL chat for over a year and I was really pissed the way some males treated me. They would completely dismiss what I was saying because I was a woman. While they would usually do that indirectly by the lack of response to my posts. Some came out directly and said it on the public forum that more posts were illogical and made no sense. And the woman were much more catty among themselves. I really enjoyed their innuendoes and carrying on multiple conversations within the same context of words.

When one Filipino girl found out my identity it was a totally different ballgame. Their attitudes and responses toward me changed immediately. Right away she started flirting with me. I hated it. I wanted to be one of the girls again.

So IMHO Gerdean has a valid position.

The fetish thread was starting to shed some feminine expression of the recognition of oppression of the feminine but it seems with Fetishes disjoint manner of expression it was difficult to maintain continuity and focus, but something was coming out there.

It's very hard for us to see the feminine perspective. When we walk out to our cars at night we don't feel the very real fear of men and rape that they live with on a daily basis, and a fear that is acknowledged among them without speaking about it.

We're direct. They are often indirect. We look for straight forward meanings. They see all kinds of meanings in the things being said. We say what we mean BUT they see much more in those words we are saying. We can't understand the women's perspective unless we can begin to understand how a woman sees things.

I believe I was beginning to understand some of what Fetish was saying. The problem being that we reacted more to her WAY of saying it than to enigmatic meaning contained within it. I believe the women could see her meaning better than us BUT it was still so convoluted within her manner of expression it wasn't worth their effort to try and stay with her. BUT they could definitely see something clearly that most of the men missed. And it had to do with women's oppression in society. And it had to do with a women’s “VOICE”. It almost as if Fetish's “VOICE” was crying out and expressing the agony from the thousands of years on ongoing torture of the feminine being from the male dominated perspective.

This is just getting started. TUB relevance will come please be patient and post your TUB relavant material.

And so I humblely ask my sisters to come out and teach me. And please don't let the male prespective stop you from teaching me. Don't let it scare you off. Be brave. You are the expression of my Mother God on earth. Teach me of your ways. Share your healing secrets with me. Be fearless. As it says in TUB:
Quote:
P.937 - §1 But man did not consciously nor intentionally seize woman's rights and then gradually and grudgingly give them back to her; all this was an unconscious and unplanned episode of social evolution. When the time really came for woman to enjoy added rights, she got them, and all quite regardless of man's conscious attitude. Slowly but surely the mores change so as to provide for those social adjustments which are a part of the persistent evolution of civilization. The advancing mores slowly provided increasingly better treatment for females; those tribes which persisted in cruelty to them did not survive.

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Last edited by Joer on Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:30 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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One point about the loss of the women's or feminine perspective is how THE BIBLE is eerily void of the feminine perspective.

TUB shows us many things in this area that are applicable today and needed as urgently today as they were 2000 years ago. The time of the fuller expression of the Feminine Expression and all the fruits and benefits that that entails is here.

In Catholic Life and in the Church the issue of allowing (that's a joke, how can men allow women? Women will, as TUB says, just take it "and all quite regardless of man's conscious attitude") women to become priests. Proponents point to the BIBLE as evidence that Jesus' ONLY WANTED MEN to be priests because he choose men to be his apostles.

BUT in TUB we have ample evidence that this was NEVER TRUE! And women served God in lead positions even as Priests do today just as they did then. You Know WHAT. WOMAN ARE SERVING AS DULY CANONIZED PRIESTS TODAY! JUST LIKE JESUS ENCOURAGED THEM TO DO THEN. I've personally been to two masses presided over by Canonized Roman Catholic women priests.


P.1680 - §3 The Sabbath services of the apostolic party had been put in the hands of the women by Andrew, upon instructions from Jesus. This meant, of course, that they could not be held in the new synagogue. The women selected Joanna to have charge of this occasion, and the meeting was held in the banquet room of Herod's new palace, Herod being away in residence at Julias in Perea. Joanna read from the Scriptures[b] concerning woman's work in the religious life of Israel,
making reference to Miriam, Deborah, Esther, and others.[/b]

P.1680 - §2 Mary Magdalene became the most effective teacher of the gospel among this group of twelve women evangelists. She was set apart for such service, together with Rebecca, at Jotapata about four weeks subsequent to her conversion. Mary and Rebecca, with the others of this group, went on through the remainder of Jesus' life on earth, laboring faithfully and effectively for the enlightenment and uplifting of their downtrodden sisters; and when the last and tragic episode in the drama of Jesus' life was being enacted, notwithstanding the apostles all fled but one, these women were all present, and not one either denied or betrayed him.

P.1683 - §1 When Jesus had left off speaking, there was great rejoicing among those who had heard these gracious words, and they all went on in the days that followed proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom with new power and with renewed energy and enthusiasm. And the women rejoiced all the more to know they were included in these plans for the establishment of the kingdom on earth.

P.1680 - §1 It was at Magdala that the women first demonstrated their usefulness and vindicated the wisdom of their choosing.

P.1679 - §2 It was most astounding in that day, when women were not even allowed on the main floor of the synagogue (being confined to the women's gallery), to behold them being recognized as authorized teachers of the new gospel of the kingdom. The charge which Jesus gave these ten women as he set them apart for gospel teaching and ministry was the emancipation proclamation which set free all women and for all time; no more was man to look upon woman as his spiritual inferior. ... but everywhere the women believers in the good news stood stanchly behind their chosen sisters and voiced no uncertain approval of this tardy acknowledgment of woman's place in religious work.[/b]

There's that expression again The women's "VOICE". It reminds of the aspect of feminine "Voice" that came up in reference to Fetish and the subject of her thread. And Iris is the expression of her voice. And all the women whose "voice" has been expressed here, right here on TruthBook, but has it received sufficient attention and understanding? Do we really know what the women's "VOICE" is? :smile:

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Thank you, JoeR, for kicking off this most critical topic of discussion.

When I first looked at that poll, I thought ... "No, women are not treated any different than men on the Internet. Men and women on the Internet are equally rude." I believe this is true and I believe it is because the Internet, as a medium of exchange, is entirely mechanical, entirely left-brained, which is male dominant, and therefore all of our male-dominant cultural conditioning comes into play. If it's a man's world, it is certainly a man's cyberspace. "Are women treated any different than men in general?" Of course they are. And this carries over into the Internet and thus into Truthbook.

Your confession, JoeR, that you posed as a female on an AOL list and enjoyed the companionship and camaraderie of women for a time, reminds me of when I first signed on to UBRON! "Gerdean" is such an uncommon name, nobody knew if I was a man or a woman, and yet the tenor of my posts (at that time, anyway) were serious, thoughtful, thought-provoking, sane, probing. I was immediately responded to by the men in glowing terms, as if they were glad to have among them a fellow, another part of "his-story," a man among men. As soon as it was revealed that I was a woman, I was relegated to the back of the room.

I was so disappointed. It is still very disappointing to see this prejudice against women manifested so frequently -- and so subtly! It is insidious because it is so ingrained in our culture, and (like Eve, who was seduced by the sophistries of Serapatatia and the beauty of Cano) we don't even realize it is happening until it is done -- we find ourselves "sleeping with the enemy" whom we thought was our friend.

Because of this pattern, we have felt betrayed and used, we have become frustrated, manipulative and shrill. All manner of distortions prevail in our attempts to get the guys to see it from our perspective. And the more we try to get them to see that we have a valid perspective, too, just different than theirs ... the more we are shoved aside, snuffed out, belittled, and ignored. Which only exascerbates the problem because ... well, because we are challenged then to overcome, and thus life becomes strident. And instead of men and women working together to inspire, intrigue, encourage and assist, we reflect a battleground.

Quote:
P.939 - §1 Men and women need each other in their morontial and spiritual as well as in their mortal careers. The differences in viewpoint between male and female persist even beyond the first life and throughout the local and superuniverse ascensions. And even in Havona, the pilgrims who were once men and women will still be aiding each other in the Paradise ascent. Never, even in the Corps of the Finality, will the creature metamorphose so far as to obliterate the personality trends that humans call male and female; always will these two basic variations of humankind continue to intrigue, stimulate, encourage, and assist each other; always will they be mutually dependent on co-operation in the solution of perplexing universe problems and in the overcoming of manifold cosmic difficulties. P.939 - §1


This is no lightweight issue, ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters. Not only does it stifle "the hand that rocks the cradle" and "fraternizes with destiny", it is at the root of domestic violence, a real problem not only in our country but all over the world. It is NOT ACCEPTABLE. And being thrown off lists for standing for principles, or being closed out of the conversation by a preponderance of male energy, is simply another example of women being oppressed. It is barbaric; it is pathetic; and it has no place in the Kingdom of Heaven - which is where Jesus put us. Men and women, working side by side.

Quote:
The sexes have had great difficulty in understanding each other. Man found it hard to understand woman, regarding her with a strange mixture of ignorant mistrust and fearful fascination, if not with suspicion and contempt. Many tribal and racial traditions relegate trouble to Eve, Pandora, or some other representative of womankind. These narratives were always distorted so as to make it appear that the woman brought evil upon man; and all this indicates the onetime universal distrust of woman. Among the reasons cited in support of a celibate priesthood, the chief was the baseness of woman. The fact that most supposed witches were women did not improve the olden reputation of the sex. P.935 - §4


If we are to become effective co-workers in the field, "if we are to respond to the call for spiritual men and women who will dare to depend solely on Jesus and his incomparable teachings," then we need to stop with the mistrust and the suspicion and the contempt already and learn how to respect the gifts we each bring to the table.

And thus, JoeR and others, I come full cycle in my initial response to this new thread. Now is the ideal opportunity for us to perceive and learn to appreciate the male and female gifts of Deity that are embodied in each of us and in all of us as we set out to "be about the Father's business."

Thank you.

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Thank You Gerdean!

It's this conscientious gift of open and erudite communication with the excellent references from TUB that indicate the importance of men learning from women especially here on Urantia in preparation for our eternal journey of further discovery of our concomitant partners, The Female expressions of God on Earth, Our Women friends, sisters, mothers, daughters and celestial feminine beings.

Exactly what I was hoping for. Again.

I pray that we, as conscientious men and women with the gift of TUB, guard against reactionary responses to the points we vehemently disagree with. And that we search out those things that are worthy of further discussion for our mutual growth and that we focus on that.
Amen/Awomen :smile:

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Great discussion. Very good start by Joer and Gerdean on an important opportunity to seek understanding. I look forward to an intelligent exchange of ideas and lots of patience and tolerance for divergent views - please aim and phrase with a sincere intent to share, edify, question and open our minds to growth.

All the best, Ray


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In reading your second post, JoeR, regarding the Women's Corps in the UB and the fact that today there are women priests offering mass, I found myself gravitating to this sentence:
Quote:
She [Mary Magdalene] was set apart for such service, together with Rebecca, at Jotapata about four weeks subsequent to her conversion.

It triggered me to remember the thing from the UB:
Quote:
The reserve corps of destiny consists of living men and women who have been admitted to the special service of the superhuman administration of world affairs. This corps is made up of the men and women of each generation who are chosen by the spirit directors of the realm to assist in the conduct of the ministry of mercy and wisdom to the children of time on the evolutionary worlds. It is the general practice in the conduct of the affairs of the ascension plans to begin this liaison utilization of mortal will creatures immediately they are competent and trustworthy to assume such responsibilities. Accordingly, as soon as men and women appear on the stage of temporal action with sufficient mental capacity, adequate moral status, and requisite spirituality, they are quickly assigned to the appropriate celestial group of planetary personalities as human liaisons, mortal assistants. P.1257 - §1

Now, I am not intimating that I am or Fetish is or Iris might be or Jo could be or that any of us fall into the category of reserve corps, because even we would not know if we were, but it could be. And to be constantly slapped back into a corner, to be squelched and snuffed and dissed and all that lousy jazz simply because we are women is (to quote that popular phrase) "a sin against Deity"!!! Frankly, this is why so many of us women cheered when we watched the scene in Franco Zepherelli's film, "Jesus of Nazareth" where Mary tells the 11 apostles in no uncertain terms, "and why shouldn't he have appeared to me first!?!?"

We have so few heroes, we women.

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Thanks Ray and Gerdean. I don't want to get into the
Quote:
constantly slapped back into a corner, to be squelched and snuffed and dissed and all that lousy jazz simply because we are women is (to quote that popular phrase) "a sin against Deity"!!!


But I promise I will get back to it. I want to look up these great positive TUB excerpts you have shared first. I think they are very important in establishing HOW IMPORTANT our women's prespective is, in the conciousness of humankind and the value of FULL COMPLIMENTARY (male/female) Understaing of things. (worldly concepts, ideas). Give me some time to look at the content surrounding those excerpts. I REALLY LIKE THIS STUFF Gerdean. Thank you so much.

Please feel free to point more or this very important material if you care too. Thanks. Joe. :smile:

I looked up the passages you posted and found this right next to one.

P.938 - §9 The differences of nature, reaction, viewpoint, and thinking between men and women, far from occasioning concern, should be regarded as highly beneficial to mankind [humankind], both individually and collectively. Many orders of universe creatures are created in dual phases of personality manifestation. Among mortals, Material Sons, and midsoniters, this difference is described as male and female; among seraphim, cherubim, and Morontia Companions, it has been denominated positive or aggressive and negative or retiring. Such dual associations greatly multiply versatility and overcome inherent limitations, even as do certain triune associations in the Paradise-Havona system.

It supports what I've been saying about value of the feminine prespective. It, "should be regarded as highly beneficial to mankind [humankind]"

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Last edited by Joer on Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:30 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Gerdean you wrote:
Quote:
Your confession, JoeR, that you posed as a female on an AOL list and enjoyed the companionship and camaraderie of women for a time

I didn’t actually pose as a women, like you and Fetish, everybody just assumed I was one because I was using my aunt’s login and so I never corrected their assumption. I never said I was a women and was never asked if I was.

In looking into your "the reserve corps of destiny," I ran into this stuff that relates to us about a Feminine Aspect of God and God's creation that plays a very very important part in our development and presservation of our individual personalities.

Quote:
P.1243 - §4 In the ministry of personal guardianship, the assignment of angels as destiny guardians, seraphim always volunteer their services. In the city of this visitation a certain mortal was recently admitted to the reserve corps of destiny, and since all such humans are personally attended by guardian angels, more than one hundred qualified seraphim sought the assignment. The planetary director selected twelve of the more experienced individuals and subsequently appointed the seraphim whom they selected as best adapted to guide this human being through his life journey. That is, they selected a certain pair of equally qualified seraphim; one of this seraphic pair will always be on duty.
P.1243 - §5 Seraphic tasks may be unremitting, but either of the angelic pair can discharge all ministering responsibilities. Like cherubim, seraphim usually serve in pairs, but unlike their less advanced associates, the seraphim sometimes work singly. In practically all their contacts with human beings they can function as individuals. Both angels are required only for communication and service on the higher circuits of the universes.
P.1243 - §6 When a seraphic pair accept guardian assignment, they serve for the remainder of the life of that human being. The complement of being (one of the two angels) becomes the recorder of the undertaking. These complemental seraphim are the recording angels of the mortals of the evolutionary worlds. The records are kept by the pair of cherubim (a cherubim and a sanobim) who are always associated with the seraphic guardians, but these records are always sponsored by one of the seraphim.
P.1244 - §1 For purposes of rest and recharging with the life energy of the universe circuits, the guardian is periodically relieved by her complement, and during her absence the associated cherubim functions as the recorder, as is also the case when the complemental seraphim is similarly absent.

So we see that the Guardian of the surviving record and eternal existence of our being is a feminine celestial entity - our seraphic guardians. Imagine how they feel when they witness how we treat their sister existences in this life....Women.

3. RELATION TO OTHER SPIRIT INFLUENCES - P.1244
P.1244 - §2 One of the most important things a destiny guardian does for her mortal subject is to effect a personal co-ordination of the numerous impersonal spirit influences which indwell, surround, and impinge upon the mind and soul of the evolving material creature. Human beings are personalities, and it is exceedingly difficult for nonpersonal spirits and prepersonal entities to make direct contact with such highly material and discretely personal minds. In the ministry of the guarding angel all of these influences are more or less unified and made more nearly appreciable by the expanding moral nature of the evolving human personality.

Notice again that it is this feminine influence on us that is unifying our existence. How much more effective could we make HER work on us if we paid more attention to what our female co-ordinate pair, women, tries to share with us about their perspective on this world?

P.1244 - §3 More especially can and does this seraphic guardian correlate the manifold agencies and influences of the Infinite Spirit, ranging from the domains of the physical controllers and the adjutant mind-spirits up to the Holy Spirit of the Divine Minister and to the Omnipresent Spirit presence of the Paradise Third Source and Center. Having thus unified and made more personal these vast ministries of the Infinite Spirit, the seraphim then undertakes to correlate this integrated influence of the Conjoint Actor with the spirit presences of the Father and the Son.

Notice here that is this unification of our being including our connection to Our Father and brother SON is fostered and integrated by Our HOLY MOTHER SPIRIT the THIRD SOURCE AND CENTER of our God.

The feminine Binds us integrates us and holds us together. We are fractured and incomplete until we accept and willing allow our Feminine being to make us more profoundly connected to God. I'll tell I believe our women hold the secret to our more profound experience with the God that exists within and through us. Let's honor our female deity. Our female Source of Being, Our Third Source and Center. And the physical expression of this source and center on earth - our women.
:smile:

...
P.1245 - §0 ...Throughout the entire realm of progressive survival in and through the Supreme Being, seraphim (a feminine aspect of God) are an essential part of continuing mortal progression.

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Dear JoeR.

I think perhaps we are looking at a matter of semantics. The seraphic pair (male and female, recessive and assertive) are denominated female only as a matter of form. The big guys (Universal Father, Eternal Son, Infinite Spirit) are ALL depicted as male. The seraphim are ALL depicted as female. That doesn't mean angels are females. Or that Gods are males. It means that the revelators opted to transcend the entire matter of gender by adopting the Oxford style of pronoun usage.

The UB refers to the Third Source and Center as He and the Eternal Son as He (even as it infers that the Eternal Son is actually our mother since the Father and Son gave rise to the Infinite Spirit in the creation of Paradise Trinity in Paradise). This manipulation of pronouns is to help our minds accommodate the fact that the Gods are without gender and, indeed, even the angels are not given in marriage. So students of this revelation who are interested in developing a working relationship with Diety, who want to feel part of the spirit Family, need to see past the UB pronouns.

To me, the Divine Mother is reflected in us not only as the adjutant mind spirits, not only through the "holy spirit" (I have never been able to figure out quite what that is), but through our personal experience with God -- and as the offspring of God. For example, let me relate this personal anecdote that introduced me to Mother God in the first place. It's a very personal story, so forgive me if my confession seems unseemly.

I was "working my program" (the 12-step program of Alcoholics Anonymous), and I reached the point where I needed to work the 8th and 9th steps regarding my relationship with my mom. Those steps are:
Quote:
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
To do that, I quit my very good job and sold my wonderful home and sojourned back to my home town where she lived, and where I would be able to effect the healing necessary [ -- so you can see that I took this step very seriously, as I take all aspects of my spiritual life. As we say in AA, "The spiritual life is not a theory; we have to live it."]

And so I went back east to live my program and make amends to my mother for being so distant and having caused her so much unnecessary worry. After many futile attempts to broach the subject with her, I realized that my disappointment with her (thus justifying why I had alienated her from me) was because she had not been there for me in some very critical issues and incidents in my life, most notably the one relating to incest. I had been angry and so I had withheld my affection from her. I didn't feel I could trust her or depend on her. And in my prayer and meditation it was revealed to me that she had not been there for me because it had been more than she herself could handle. She was only human!

As soon as I realized that she was not superhuman any more than I was, my Spirit Mother visited me. I fell into Her. She gave me permission to cry on her shoulder and believe me, I did. I was able to let go of all the pent up anger and sense of betrayal and loss and disappointment that I had held in my heart against my mother for literally decades, and gave it all to the Divine Minister, who then ministered to me, and quite literally soothed my soul, comforted me, and nurtured me into peace.

Once I was at peace with myself, through Mother God, I was able to see my mortal mother through Divine eyes. All the blame was gone. All the anger and recrimination was erased. The hard spot that had been my heart dissolved in healing tears, in the living water of Her supernal affections and unconditional love. It has made all the difference in my relationship with my mom. I was able to make effective "amends" and she has reciprocated. Today, we are very close.

I would not have considered going to my concept of Father God with such a matter. I would not have been able to recognize HIS supernal affection and unconditional love in quite that same way. It is as though the God of my understanding became infinitely more that day when I was ministered to by my Mother in Heaven. My earth mother could not love me to the extent my divine mother could. It just isn't/wasn't humanly possible. But the divine feminine was able to reach into me and suckle me and harbor me unlike any male ever could. And now I can carry on Her legacy.

As a child of God, I can sit on Father God's knee and tell him stories and ask him questions and seek His counsel; He can be my defender and my hero, but I cannot suckle at His breast. Mother God has traits that (to me, an animal-origin creature of a sexual nature) are unique to women. We are close to life and death. We bleed. We are intuitive and sensitive. We can get down on the floor and play with our toddlers, even as we urge them to stand on their own two feet and learn to walk.

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Gerdean O'Dell
Author: "Secrets of Promise"


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WOW Gerdean. All I can say is thank you for that.

Love you, Iris


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Hiya Iris, i did not know you were back, and where's your long speech then.. ey... : ) I eagerly await.... joking, it's good to hear your cyber voice again...

I'm not one for writing long speeches, so going back to Joers question: Are women treated differently on the net than men folk... Yeah...!!! we are either ignored, chatted up, patronized or pitied.... but that's as good as it's gonna get isn't it girls.... :cry: :lol:

Quote from famous Hadiths:

Quote:
"Woman was created from a rib, from the most crooked part in the upper rib cage, and you will never find any means to straighten her... If your try to straighten her, she will break. If you leave her, she remains crooked. You can benefit from her in spite of her crookedness.. So treat women well...."

:?

Great posts as always Gerdean....

Sorry Joer, i will come back later with something more intelligent, that is if i'm not having a hormonal...


Love Sarah xxx


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Gerdean, I am speechless - by design - but I had to say BRAVO!

All the best, Ray


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Thank you, Iris, Tasheem and Ray.

My point, of course, was to expand appreciation for Mother Spirit, who is an integral part of our budding reality. If we are a microcosm of the macrocosm of Paradise, we are indwelt with the spirit of the Universal Father, the spirit of the Eternal Son, and the spirit of the Infinite Spirit. Only as we respect and appreciate the way they work together -- in Paradise and in us -- will we be fully integrated, and will we advance as a race of god-knowing, spirit led human beings. Otherwise, we will just remain animals beating each other to a pulp over real estate.

Women need to see the Father and Son and Mother in men. Men need to see the Father and Son and Mother in women. And we both need to see Paradise Trinity, our Eternal Parents, as our true source and center, origin and destiny. Only then will we be able to stop the dictatorial patriarchical pattern of an antiquated and outmoded age and begin to nurture one another's true reality as dignified and noble sons and daughters of God.

UB quotes abound on this point. It's what the revelation is all about.

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Gerdean O'Dell
Author: "Secrets of Promise"


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Gerdean, let me thank you for your personal and passionate sharing of your experience with our Mother God. And thank you my sisters for your response. I hope to learn much from you and be changed in a positive way in regards to your unique feminine insight into Our/My Mother/Father God.

I too experienced the presence of our Universe Mother and the warmth and healing peacefulness and security of Her Loving embrace even before I ever posted here. It was in relation to searching Her out with my eldest sister Sara. We both felt Her and were moved by Her. I found my first post here which came shortly after that experience and with the excitement of something newly discovered in my life that I felt had SUPREME importance. I hoped that here, amoung the enlightened readers of TUB, I would find out much more about Her. And I see from my initial post Colter's friend's name was actually Georgie.

Recognition of the expression of the Feminine Aspects of God

http://forums.truthbook.com/viewtopic.php?t=1017&highlight=feminine

Anyway Gerdean, in response to what you wrote:
Quote:
I think perhaps we are looking at a matter of semantics. The seraphic pair (male and female, recessive and assertive) are denominated female only as a matter of form. The big guys (Universal Father, Eternal Son, Infinite Spirit) are ALL depicted as male. The seraphim are ALL depicted as female. That doesn't mean angels are females. Or that Gods are males. It means that the revelators opted to transcend the entire matter of gender by adopting the Oxford style of pronoun usage.


And please I beg you forgiveness for being such a Man. :smile:I just want to talk openly and candidly with all who are willing to talk about Our Mother. I'm sure I must seem condescending and patronizing and all those other things men seem like to women BUT please overlook that and give me your enpassioned responses on this subject even has Gerdean has so graciously shared her's with us.

So here it goes Gerdean.

I hear what your saying about semantics. You are quite right. But working with in those limits lets do the best we can. TUB has a ton of different ways of reffering to the same thing. I believe it is because it is so difficult for the authors to convey such complex concepts and entities to us within such a limited language. But they do the best they can and that's all we can do also.

I think the statement, "The big guys (Universal Father, Eternal Son, Infinite Spirit) are ALL depicted as male." can be expanded on as we go. And I think we can show that they are also Female (within the limits you've defined) as much as they are Male.

If you do a search on TUB (at least my old version) on "mother" You get a tremendous amount of stuff on the Feminine Aspects of God (within the 387 refrences that come up).

Among those are a few of the following. I made a reference to the feminine aspects of Infinite Spirit and the THIRD SOURCE AND CENTER.

Quote:
Notice here there is this unification of our being including our connection to Our Father and brother SON is fostered and integrated by Our HOLY MOTHER SPIRIT the THIRD SOURCE AND CENTER of our God. The Feminine Binds us, integrates us and holds us together.


I just noticed your last post Gerdean which is saying even more than what I'm saying here.
Which is basically that we are ALL both male and female, mother and father, sister and brother, positive and negative. So with out much more ado about nothing let me share these which support the post you just made while I was doing this one.

Thanks Gerdean! Your a blessing without a disguise! :smile:

P.79 - §4 Concerning identity, nature, and other attributes of personality, the Eternal Son is the full equal, the perfect complement, and the eternal counterpart of the Universal Father. In the same sense that God is the Universal Father, the Son is the Universal Mother. And all of us, high and low, constitute their universal family.

P.76 - §0 universal. As love is comprehended on a sex planet, the love of God is more comparable to the love of a father, while the love of the Eternal Son is more like the affection of a mother.

P.88 - §5 All Sons of God who take origin in the persons of the Paradise Deities are in direct and constant communication with the Eternal Mother Son. And such communication is instantaneous; it is independent of time though sometimes conditioned by space.

P.95 - §7 There are many spiritual influences, and they are all as one. Even the work of the Thought Adjusters, though independent of all other influences, unvaryingly coincides with the spirit ministry of the combined influences of the Infinite Spirit and a local universe Mother Spirit.

P.122 - §5 The mother force of space seems to flow in at the south and out at the north through the operation of some unknown circulatory system which is concerned with the diffusion of this basic form of force-energy.

P.162 - §5 Havona and Paradise are the source of a Michael Son's creative power. Here dwell the beings who co-operate with him in universe creation. From Paradise come the Universe Mother Spirits, the cocreators of local universes.

P.162 - §7 6. The Co-ordinate Ministering Daughters. The Universe Mother Spirits, cocreators of the local universes, secure their prepersonal training on the worlds of Havona in close association with the Spirits of the Circuits. In the central universe the Spirit Daughters of the local universes were duly trained in the methods of co-operation with the Sons of Paradise, all the while subject to the will of the Father.

P.162 - §8 On the worlds of Havona the Spirit and the Daughters of the Spirit find the mind patterns for all their groups of spiritual and material intelligences, and this central universe is the sometime destiny of those creatures which a Universe Mother Spirit jointly sponsors with an associated Creator Son.

P.162 - §9 The Universe Mother Creator remembers Paradise and Havona as the place of her origin and the home of the Infinite Mother Spirit, the abode of the personality presence of the Infinite Mind.

P.162 - §11 And lastly, since these Daughter Spirits of the Infinite Mother Spirit will not likely ever return to their Paradise home, they derive great satisfaction from the universal reflectivity phenomenon associated with the Supreme Being in Havona and personalized in Majeston on Paradise.

P.177 - §12 2. The circuit of the Divine Ministers, the local universe Mother Spirits, the Holy Spirit of your world.

P.191 - §1 The Seven Master Spirits do not directly invade the material minds of the individual creatures on the evolutionary worlds of space. The mortals of Urantia do not experience the personal presence of the mind-spirit influence of the Master Spirit of Orvonton. If this Master Spirit does attain any sort of contact with the individual mortal mind during the earlier evolutionary ages of an inhabited world, it must occur through the ministry of the local universe Creative Spirit, the consort and associate of the Creator Son of God who presides over the destinies of each local creation. But this very Creative Mother Spirit is, in nature and character, quite like the Master Spirit of Orvonton.

P.369 - §3 The Son initiates the creation of certain of the universe children, while the Spirit is solely responsible for bringing into existence the numerous orders of spirit personalities who minister and serve under the direction and guidance of this selfsame Mother Spirit. In the creation of other types of universe personalities, both the Son and the Spirit function together, and in no creative act does the one do aught without the counsel and approval of the other.

P.370 - §6 The administration of Trinity-origin personalities ends with the government of the superuniverses. The local universes are characterized by dual supervision, the beginning of the father-mother concept. The universe father is the Creator Son; the universe mother is the Divine Minister, the local universe Creative Spirit.

P.375 - §2 This is the relation of a stupendous drama in few words, but it represents about all that can be told regarding these momentous transactions. They are instantaneous, inscrutable, and incomprehensible; the secret of the technique and procedure resides in the bosom of the Paradise Trinity. Of only one thing are we certain: The Spirit presence in the local universe during the time of purely physical creation or organization was incompletely differentiated from the spirit of the Paradise Infinite Spirit; whereas, after the reappearance of the supervising Master Spirit from the secret embrace of the Gods and following the flash of spiritual energy, the local universe manifestation of the Infinite Spirit suddenly and completely changes to the personal likeness of that Master Spirit who was in transmuting liaison with the Infinite Spirit. The local universe Mother Spirit thus acquires a personal nature tinged by that of the Master Spirit of the superuniverse of astronomic jurisdiction.

P.375 - §3 This personalized presence of the Infinite Spirit, the Creative Mother Spirit of the local universe, is known in Satania as the Divine Minister. To all practical intents and spiritual purposes this manifestation of Deity is a divine individual, a spirit person. And she is so recognized and regarded by the Creator Son. It is through this localization and personalization of the Third Source and Center in our local universe that the Spirit could subsequently become so fully subject to the Creator Son that of this Son it was truly said, "All power in heaven and on earth has been intrusted to him."

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Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


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Hi JoeR. Thanks for all your research.

The last half of the last excerpt ...
Quote:
It is through this localization and personalization of the Third Source and Center in our local universe that the Spirit could subsequently become so fully subject to the Creator Son that of this Son it was truly said, "All power in heaven and on earth has been intrusted to him."
... The entire section [Pg 368 #3 The Universe Son and Spirit] is critical to our discussion. It sets sets forth the ideal pattern for men and women and also reminds me of the movie with Mel Gibson entitled "What Women Want."

Quote:
The Son functions as a father in his local universe. The Spirit, as mortal creatures would understand, enacts the role of a mother, always assisting the Son and being everlastingly indispensable to the administration of the universe. In the face of insurrection only the Son and his associated Sons can function as deliverers. Never can the Spirit undertake to contest rebellion or defend authority, but ever does the Spirit sustain the Son in all of everything he may be required to experience in his efforts to stabilize government and uphold authority on worlds tainted with evil or dominated by sin. Only a Son can retrieve the work of their joint creation, but no Son could hope for final success without the incessant co-operation of the Divine Minister and her vast assemblage of spirit helpers, the daughters of God, who so faithfully and valiantly struggle for the welfare of mortal men and the glory of their divine parents.

Upon the completion of the Creator Son's seventh and final creature bestowal, the uncertainties of periodic isolation terminate for the Divine Minister, and the Son's universe helper becomes forever settled in surety and control. It is at the enthronement of the Creator Son as a Master Son, at the jubilee of jubilees, that the Universe Spirit, before the assembled hosts, first makes public and universal acknowledgment of subordination to the Son, pledging fidelity and obedience. This event occurred in Nebadon at the time of Michael's return to Salvington after the Urantian bestowal. Never before this momentous occasion did the Universe Spirit acknowledge subordination to the Universe Son, and not until after this voluntary relinquishment of power and authority by the Spirit could it be truthfully proclaimed of the Son that "all power in heaven and on earth has been committed to his hand."

After this pledge of subordination by the Creative Mother Spirit, Michael of Nebadon nobly acknowledged his eternal dependence on his Spirit companion, constituting the Spirit coruler of his universe domains and requiring all their creatures to pledge themselves in loyalty to the Spirit as they had to the Son; and there issued and went forth the final "Proclamation of Equality." Though he was the sovereign of this local universe, the Son published to the worlds the fact of the Spirit's equality with him in all endowments of personality and attributes of divine character. And this becomes the transcendent pattern for the family organization and government of even the lowly creatures of the worlds of space. This is, in deed and in truth, the high ideal of the family and the human institution of voluntary marriage. (P.368 - §4 through P.369 - §1)


So it's like after HE becomes a Master Son, with full sovereignty over their universe, SHE gives HIM authority over HER and HE acknowledges HIS eternal dependence on HER. All of their creatures pledge themselves to BOTH of them. SHE is equal to HIM in all endowments of personality and attributes of divine character. I know, I am just repeating what the excerpt says, but it is so obviously critical and we so obviously miss it.

It's like the Mel Gibson movie. Woman wants to be honored as an entity in her own right, as does man, and when man establishes the requisite sovereignty over their mutual creation, she can honor him completely and submit to him without reservation. It's such a great system! It is not at all that he wears the pants in the family and she needs to submit because he has authority over her. Not at all. And yet this is what so many men and women believe! That she is to obey her husband who is supposed to do the thinking and deciding for both of them -- even if he is a stinkin' thinker and a dumb decider. And that is just plain stupid!

Women do have insight, experience, wisdom and god-given rights! We are here for a reason. We are different for a reason. And we are not less, not secondary, not unclean, not a crooked rib. There is nothing wrong with women and there is certainly nothing inherently defective about the way they think! Now, I'll grant you we are all imperfect, so I am not saying we are perfect in any way, males or females. But in principle, men who belittle women as being airheads or goofy because they think differently are insulting our Creator Parents who made women that way!

Women know when they are being intimidated, belittled and discounted. And it reflects in their attitudes, their health, and their children ... thus the dysfunction passes from one generation to the next, and it's time that we who have the benefit of this epochal revelation call a halt to the game.

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Gerdean O'Dell
Author: "Secrets of Promise"


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