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Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:04 pm +0000
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It is funny that Caligastia rebelled against the universal administration in the name of individual freedom. The planetary rebellion was to be free from belief in God, and freedom from rule by Christ Michael. However, the idea of "real freedom" was hidden in the "allegiance to Lucifer" requirement.

The rebellion was not really freedom from allegiance to a higher power. It was a switch from one allegiance to another allegiance. An allegiance to Lucifer.

Now who thought up the idea that Lucifer was the highest and greatest of all minds? Who was smarter that God Himself? Who was smarter and more qualified than Christ Michael? Oh yeah. It was - Lucifer himself.

Lucifer says, "I think the wisest of all is.... little ol' me." And look at the results.
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:20 am +0000
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gosh!

i don't think it was that simple, the brilliant Lanondadek could't just fall for a stupid idea. Freedom is a small word to put all the facts. Don't feed your hate for Lucifer or for Caligastia. We must repect them options. A man shows is own evolution with the capacity of respect other ideas. The rebel are "eating what they cooked". We must find our way through all this confusion, and reach the supreem objective - to hug with the Father.

Lucifer went out of the path, that was stupid. Perhaps he didn't understood the main objectif of all this. Perhaps he did, and did not agree with it. If Michael did not criticise him, why should we? Freedom is a great word, but only when my freedom doesn't cross other freedoms.

My question is: if Lucifer could rule, does a crature from Satania could be free to reach Paradise? Could a creature from a system, whom ruler did not respect procedures, respect and reach the creator of these procedures? Could those creatures be free to reach the Father? Could we play in an orchestra if we don't know the music? Waht could happen when we reach Jerusem? Could we have a next step after that?

Thats the point, i guess...

The objective... Focus in to the objective.

Rikadus
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A good thing is that we have such terrific examples of how to flub everything up! With Lucifer and co. as bad examples - or good examples of 'bad,' we can reflect on how to move forward. I wonder if Lucifer had an inkling of how his 'stinking-thinking' was bound to end up ? Or end up down! Or how he would end up bound !
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 Post subject: Father love him to...
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Father love every one. He still loving Lucifer. the prob is that Lucifer doesnt choose the father's way. And thats the end of the road for Lucifer. There is only one road from a person to the Father, only one. If someone reject to use that way, then, there's nothing else.

There is no hate in God's place. Only endless love. Lucifer enter in a dead end road, and there's no other end but inexistance and caos.

As for me, i don't hate Lucifer, I Just don't follow him. I do not identify my self with is ideas just as i don't with many other persons. I choose my way and my objective.


Friend - Rikadus
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When i first read the UB i found it hard to believe that the direct off spring of Michael would rebel. But then again that means little in the relam of time and space and choice. Lucifer wants to be free to do his own thing and not have the burden of a unseen Father to worry about.

I suppose a lot others did too if a third of the Angles fell in with him. One thing i learned about not loving truth because of want is, you might at first love Truth and then the want in your heart will slowly posion your mind. Before you know it you are denying all sorts of things to make plans of you own. I think Lucfier wanted to be the leader/representative of this new found freedom.

But after 300,000 years of this i imagine his mind is most confused. I say his mind is tourmented on that prison world. And I think he believes death would be sweet release.

I think pity is in line here.... You know what i mean?
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my sense does not alow me to have pity of some one more inteligent and powerful than i am. He choose his way and is receiving the punishmnt of it. I do not hate him, just don't want to be related to his cause or his kind of freedom.

But i understand your words...

Rikadus
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Hi... I am picking up the Urantia book after some years away from it and am looking at the opening pages on the nature of God.

I have this nagging question though and will have to look at the later papers on this threads topic. Is my suspicion that Lucifer and associates were given our world as their playground of sorts? Some of the possible implications are a little astounding. How exactly is Lucifer "playing God" in our world?

Hope evryone is feeling well,

William
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:05 pm +0000
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Greetings Williamstade,
Welcome. Great to have you with us and to have you reading the UB again. I'm fairly new here myself as well as with the Urantia book.

I would love to help you with your question regarding Lucifer... but again being newly introduced to the UB and still a 'babe in the woods' to its over all contents... I have to withhold any comments. At the moment... I'm heavily engrossed in Paper #21 The Paradise Sons of God and have not reached the section(s) that deal with Lucifer. So for me to try and comment would be immature.

Please continue to post your thoughts and comments. :smile:
Hank
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Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:08 am +0000
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Rikadus,

I agree with your understanding. I thinks that's it exactly. "cease to exist"

And by Christ's teaching of mercy to our fellow beings we can pray for Lucifer to recognize his error and repent, and return to God. Even while we wait to see what "God's justice" will be.

I found an interesting post on the cease to exist understanding on debatingChristianity.com

Our brother Topaz understood this "cease to exist" concept from the Bible in the discussion on weather Hell is eternal or not.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2980&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is hell eternal or not?
No, it is not eternal.

From Rev 20:15 which is the last verse, it says that all those whose names are not written in the book of life was cast into hell. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After this, we see another scenario : a new heaven + a new earth + ALL THINGS NEW. This means ugly hell is no more. Ugliness, suffering, does not exist anymore in God’s creation b/c He creates ALL THINGS NEW.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Hell itself will be completely destroyed and the souls therein are no more in existence … anywhere. According to scripture, this is not a situation God wants us to be in. He wants us with Him in heaven to enjoy all He has to offer.

Peace be with you Radikus and all on this thread. :smile:

Greetings Williamstade,
Welcome.

You wrote:

Quote:
I have this nagging question though and will have to look at the later papers on this threads topic. Is my suspicion that Lucifer and associates were given our world as their playground of sorts? Some of the possible implications are a little astounding. How exactly is Lucifer "playing God" in our world?


I don't think it was so much Lucifer was given his area of stewardship. He was just overseeing it as we oversee our Earth. And it was by his "Free Will" that he choose to do what he did with it. Just like it's by our free will that we do what we do with Earth. He lead us into the ways of error. But now Jesus, among many other celestial creations of God, has taught us that we are free to choose "right" again. And He clarified God's Will to us. Yet after 2000 years we are just beginning to understand what he showed us. I know TUB sure help me figure it out a lot. Now all we have to do is show the light to others.

"Ceasing to exist" adjudicated by a merciful and loving God, is slowing replacing "eternal Hell and torment" by a vengeful and wrathful God.

Jesus' teaching of loving one another, worshiping God and doing God's Will as a soul survival teaching in the backdrop of a loving God is replacing the BLOOD Atonement Doctrine of a Blood Sacrifice of God's only son as our souls salvation to placate and stop a wrathful God from destroying and condemning us all.

So IMHO No, Lucifer wasn't given this world as a playpen for his expressions of evil, sin, and wrong doing anymore than we were given this world for our Evil and Sin and Wrongdoing. Lucifer choose to do that through Free Will just like we do. But we are changing. We just had a resounding "NO!" to war in this last election. Slowly we try to achieve our rightful peaceful status and continued progression to Light and Life! :smile:

God Bless and be with you Williamstade. Peace be you.

_________________
Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


Last edited by Joer on Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:04 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Hiya Hank,

Thank you for your kind welcome and surprising message. I, even at the age of 37, still have a tendency to jump to personal conjecture and speculation sometimes treating it then as fact. Geez! LOL. Your words made me feel like I like it here already.

Have a great day,

William
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Hi William, Hank, and all,

"Jumping to a conclusion" and a quick "conjecture" is somewhat normal because.... ? we want things SETTLED. We do not want to think or say "I don't know" or "maybe later I'll know."

When I think of how I thought when I was 18, then 25, then 42, I can say that I had not arrived at Pure Truth at any of those ages and stages. Have I 'arrived' at age 60? Just another age and stage - tho I believe the present age and stage is a step beyond previous ones.

Yep, I still jump to conclusions! It feels good....... tho I strive to be a little more patient.
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