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 Post subject: Re: How Can This Be?
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fanofVan wrote:
Goid grief.


Peace. No need to panic.


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 Post subject: Re: How Can This Be?
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Now we've got that distraction behind us, I don't want to lose the valuable discussion that has been going on. Let's pick it with jsg's post, below:

jsg wrote:
xobeht wrote:
I find it funny how people listen to and believe what the press (media) tells them to believe.
These institutions make money on bad news.
If it is not bad news it doesn't become news.


Jesus said: “To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?”


The spiritual brotherhood is not concerned with all things worldly. The spiritual brotherhood is not concerned with what an individual believes or does not believe politically and in fact this brotherhood allows for an unfathomable diversity of opinion. What unites the brotherhood is the experience of spiritual kinship..... that's all !

Come one come all-- Trump supporters welcome!!

Paul



In reply to Paul's quote above: One can interpret Jesus's statement about all things earthly crashing in different ways. Does it mean we should not be too anxious about the future and about all that we have no control over? I think it does mean this and that makes sense to me. But does it mean we shouldn't strive to make the world we live in a better place, that we shouldn't stand up to and confront injustice and the suffering that humans inflict upon other humans? I doubt it. Our world is "crashing" because small groups of people with tremendous economic and military power want it to crash--to further their own cravings for profit and power. The idea of detachment, like all ideas, can be misused, misapplied and misunderstood. Let's not do that. Let's try and look inside at our own weakness and prejudices, let's try and see our own blind spots and at least attempt to understand. A person may have a legitimate grievance yet respond to that grievance in harmful, destructive or just plain foolish ways. Many of those people who voted for our current president had very legitmate grievances--jobs being sent oversees, homes being foreclosed upon, health care being unaffordable, unable to pay for college--these grievances are serious. But the reaction to those grievances are a whole different story--putting somebody in power who not only will not address those grievances, but continues to make them worse. The UB clearly states that a democracy will elevate the most mediocre among us if the electorate is lazy, deluded, uneducated or just plain stupid.

71:2.1 (801.13) Democracy, while an ideal, is a product of civilization, not of evolution. Go slowly! select carefully! for the dangers of democracy are:

71:2.2 (801.14) 1. Glorification of mediocrity.

71:2.3 (801.15) 2. Choice of base and ignorant rulers.

71:2.4 (801.16) 3. Failure to recognize the basic facts of social evolution.

71:2.5 (801.17) 4. Danger of universal suffrage in the hands of uneducated and indolent majorities.

71:2.6 (801.18) 5. Slavery to public opinion; the majority is not always right.


This point from UB is key to what we are experiencing in the US right now. "The UB clearly states that a democracy will elevate the most mediocre among us if the electorate is lazy, deluded, uneducated or just plain stupid." I think IGNORANCE is a huge problem we have; and not only ignorance but WILLFUL ignorance. It is truly shocking to see a President of the US espousing and promulgating conspiracy theories and other crackpot theories ('put disinfectant in the body' ?!). The reason he does this is because a certain segment of the population is willfully ignorant of science. Any civilization that takes such a stance will not end well.

And sure, what do we care of all earthly things fail? I agree we have a longterm, spiritual focus and we do not fear such things. However, if a simple action like encouraging factual scientific information rather than crazy talk could make our world better, shouldn't we strive for that?


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 Post subject: Re: How Can This Be?
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The president, is just one man. He has his flaws.

But what his supporters are NOT willfully ignorant of, unlike some of his detractors, is the wholehearted devotion to love the truth.
151:1.4

Which is a distraction to those who love not the truth. Which might be why sometimes, they get panicky.


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 Post subject: Re: How Can This Be?
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nodAmanaV wrote:
The president, is just one man. He has his flaws.

But what his supporters are NOT willfully ignorant of, unlike some of his detractors, is the wholehearted devotion to love the truth.
151:1.4

Which is a distraction to those who love not the truth. Which might be why sometimes, they get panicky.


You are claiming that Trump supporters have a "wholehearted devotion to love the truth"? But his detractors do not?

Holy Moly! 8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue May 26, 2020 7:58 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Yes, SOME of his detractors in my opinion, love not the truth.


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nodAmanaV wrote:
Yes, SOME of his detractors in my opinion, love not the truth.


There you go Jerry....a UB reader and forever trumper!! Oh dear..... :?: :roll:

I know for a fact that you will also find homophobes and misogynists and racists and nationalists and alien abductors and end-of-world-ers and many other human-isms represented among the readership.

Owning or reading the UB obviously is certainly no guarantee of enlightenment....hahaha. Not even a little bit.

Perhaps you have learned a greater appreciation of why talking current politics can so easily and readily degenerate into irrelevant opinion "sharing"?

Your answer to "How Can This Be?" is that we are a funny bunch of monkeys with very personalized perspective of both human problems and human solutions where rhetoric is normally blind and ignorant and subjective and its delivery is so very targeted to create confusion, fear, anger, suspicion, and reaction. Truth is quite alien a concept related to rhetoric. Truth is not a goal or target of rhetoric. And it really doesn't matter who's rhetoric or the message of the rhetoric - it's goal is persuasion and alienation - both. Fear sells. If it bleeds, it leads!

The best lies are at least half true...rhetoric is a formalized method of justification and deception of the half true and untrue...and distraction from the truth.

Your own presentation here has an emotional content as well. Your indignation seems to miss the message found within the UB that only love and experiential wisdom delivers that spiritualization of unity that might begin to break down the barriers created by politics and rhetorical presentations.

The truth is that neither conservatives or liberals have the solutions to the world's problems...or at least they do not acknowledge or promote them. But they do convince so many that we are to choose one side or the other and demonize the other side not chosen. What a game.

Reminds me of one of my favorite bumper stickers: The Moral Majority....Is Neither!!

8)


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"Yes, SOME of his detractors in my opinion, love not the truth."

Surely you don't believe that individuals 'know the truth' by virtue of which side of the US President they subscribe to.

Individuals know the truth because of their individual capacity for attending to and accepting the leadings of their Thought Adjuster and Spirit of Truth, full stop. Political leanings have nothing to do with it. Please stop with this pedantic, narrow-minded and overly simplistic perspective. I can think of little that is more contrary to the teachings of the UB than the idea that pro-POTUS folks know/love the truth and anti-POTUS do not.

Every person is a mixture of truth and falsehoods; good and evil; happy and unhappy, etc. It is really a matter of what we choose to focus our attention on that becomes a reflection of who we are and where we are in our spiritual journey.


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I didn't say "know the truth".

I said "love the truth".

Unless a person loves the truth, I don't see how it can ever be known.


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nodAmanaV wrote:
I didn't say "know the truth".

I said "love the truth".

Unless a person loves the truth, I don't see how it can ever be known.


Behold the contortionism of equivocation, obfuscation...and rhetoric. Hilarious....and sad at the same time. :roll:


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fanofVan wrote:
Behold the contortionism of equivocation, obfuscation...and rhetoric. Hilarious....and sad at the same time. :roll:


Peace. Don't panic.


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nodAmanaV wrote:
I didn't say "know the truth".

I said "love the truth".

Unless a person loves the truth, I don't see how it can ever be known.


Pray tell, how do you claim to have knowledge of whether a person loves the truth or not?

By their fruits, perhaps? Do these fruits show a love of the truth:

    Brags about grabbing women without their consent
    Bankrupts six businesses and claims to be a successful business person
    openly invites a foreign power to interfere in US elections and then denies it
    Refers to people including political colleagues, gold star families, and women derogatory and childish names

Does a person with those qualities "love the truth" in your estimation?


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I don't have knowledge of whether a person loves the truth or not. But they do.

Regarding your other comments, I already said, it isn't about the president. Which is interesting when that isn't understood.

It's about those who love the truth, who also support defeating politically those who love not the truth. It's similar to 151:1.4


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nodAmanaV wrote:
I don't have knowledge of whether a person loves the truth or not. But they do.

Regarding your other comments, I already said, it isn't about the president. Which is interesting when that isn't understood.

It's about those who love the truth, who also support defeating politically those who love not the truth. It's similar to 151:1.4


Um. You are the one who wrote:

Quote:
nodAmanaV wrote:
Yes, SOME of his detractors in my opinion, love not the truth.


You are saying you know that some of his detractors love not the truth. How do you know? And, whose detractors? The President. You made this about the President, not me.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
nodAmanaV wrote:
Yes, SOME of his detractors in my opinion, love not the truth.


You are saying you know that some of his detractors love not the truth.


I said it was an opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: How Can This Be?
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Let's look at this from the other direction. Earlier in the thread, Nod wrote:

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But what his supporters are NOT willfully ignorant of, unlike some of his detractors, is the wholehearted devotion to love the truth.


How do you know that some supporters of the President are not willfully ignorant of the wholehearted devotion to love the truth? Or, if this is also an opinion, on what do you base your opinion?

Love of the truth is not a political party - based behavior. It is individual. Each individual loves the truth (or not) in their own way. Politics has nothing to do with it. Politics is about joining an alliance with people who share common interests. For example, the common interest of promoting and empowering a leader who exemplifies, for them, a way of living that is truly Christlike.


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