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Hi Rexford,

I suppose I can understand if the joke was not immediately funny. When I heard it for the first time watching a recorded television program I believe I found it both cute and gross but didn't actually laugh. This week I saw the episode for the third time without major response. But yesterday as I contemplated telling the joke to friends it hit me hard and I couldn't stop laughing hard for quite a long time. The basic idea is that the poor guy eating the soup has a calamity in eating from a bowl where a dead mouse was. But then he was shortly to discover that that calamity was to be compounded with the ignominy of eating the regurgitated remnants of the other person's meal. Somehow the composed response of the first soup eater sets up a strange tension that maybe should trigger a humorous response because we've probably all been in a such a compounded situation :)


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Regardiing the status of the ascension career at the end of the age, you are certainly entitled to the opinion that it doesn't end there. I don't think that is a particularly accurate or useful perspective but you may offer additional evidence as to why you believe it might be so. I imagine it may be easy to overlook the meaning of the full emergence of the Supreme Being. And likewise the meaning of the exhaustion of finite possibiliites for contribution to deity recognition and power embodiment in the realms of time and space.

What the challenges are for beings involved in the absonite realization and revelation of deity are very likely quite beyond our ability to comprehend. Since those challenges by definition transcend space the future participants of deity expression do not have the requirements placed upon them that we have. Yes, what every being has done in the previous age will no doubt important for them to fully understand and complement. But it is not an "ascension" per se.


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P.S. I suppose you could call the activities of the outer space inhabitants "absonocension". My intuition is telling me that the activity of tallying and understanding the sum total of all past contributions to the Supreme Being will be a fairly small and not so challenging part of their careers. The real challenge will be to envision and implement deity realization and power embodiment so that each of their contributions plays a unique and critical part in transcendent realms.


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Greetings Riktare,

You wrote:
Riktare wrote:
Regardiing the status of the ascension career at the end of the age, you are certainly entitled to the opinion that it doesn't end there. I don't think that is a particularly accurate or useful perspective but you may offer additional evidence as to why you believe it might be so.


Likewise, you are entitled to your opinion. However, I believe I supplied enough evidence to prove that the Papers inform us that the ascension plan doesn't end with the emergence of the Supreme. That is not the end of anything but the beginning of a new era, the emergence of God the Ultimate. And whenever that age is over, there is another age to follow, the search for God the Absolute.

But no matter what, it requires growth. Growth is an ascension. Besides, do you think all spiritual, mindal, physical and personality gravity will stop moving toward Paradise? Of course not, otherwise creation will fall apart and cease to exist. The pull of gravity is an ascension. The Trinity will not disappear or dissipate into outer space and the Father will not leave his Paradise home even after the emergence of the Supreme. Otherwise, creation will all cease to exist. What would be the point of those nebulae in outer space being created today if they weren't meant to last into eternity?

Riktare wrote:
I imagine it may be easy to overlook the meaning of the full emergence of the Supreme Being. And likewise the meaning of the exhaustion of finite possibiliites for contribution to deity recognition and power embodiment in the realms of time and space.


The exhaustion of finite possibilities is not the exhaustion of all possibilities. There are transcendent, absonite possibilities in the next era and we are told that there will be beings from outer space tasked with discovering all those possibilities. They will have missed out on the discovery of the Supreme and the thrill of exhausting all finite possibilities, but their task is to exhaust all absonite possibilities. No matter how you look at it, it is still an ascension plan of learning and discovery, growth and progress. God the Ultimate is an experiential God and experience requires the motion of discovery.

The goal is to move toward, or ascend to God the Ultimate. The creatures of that era will still have to find the Father, but from a different vantage point, an absonite-suprapersonal vantage point that transcends time and space as we know it. But outer space will still be there. In fact, at some time in that future, all of outer space will be settled in a new kind of light and life, and then we will experience emergence of God the Ultimate, a testament to absonite creatures searching for God and God searching for his creatures. It is an ascending and descending scheme that will never end.

Thanks for the discussion,
Rexford


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addendum:

I just found the quote I've been looking for for two days:

Nevertheless, we deem that the perfected superuniverses will in some way become a part of the Paradise-ascension careers of those beings who may inhabit these outer creations. It is quite possible that in that future age we may witness outer-spacers approaching Havona through the seven superuniverses, administered by God the Supreme with or without the collaboration of the Seven Master Spirits. 56:7.9

In this quote the author is describing the ascension careers of beings that may sometime inhabit universes in outer space. What isn't known for sure is the exact technique of the approach, but it is known that there will definitely be an approach to Deity all the way to Havona.

Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
The exhaustion of finite possibilities is not the exhaustion of all possibilities. There are transcendent, absonite possibilities in the next era and we are told that there will be beings from outer space tasked with discovering all those possibilities. They will have missed out on the discovery of the Supreme and the thrill of exhausting all finite possibilities, but their task is to exhaust all absonite possibilities. No matter how you look at it, it is still an ascension plan of learning and discovery, growth and progress. God the Ultimate is an experiential God and experience requires the motion of discovery.


Hi Rexford,

I'm not really sure exactly why you are stating this. I thought I made it very clear that's what I was stating also. I pretty much agree with everything you post here. But it is good that you state it with clarity.

Maybe it wasn't easy to pick out what I said that did agree with your post above from the additional ideas which apparently did not click. :) I was essentially saying that, given the above, it is profitable to contemplate additional aspects and possibilities.


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Greetings Riktare,

It's good to hear we agree on something. I read your following statement to mean that we do not agree and that it was okay to offer additional evidence.

Riktare wrote:
Regardiing the status of the ascension career at the end of the age, you are certainly entitled to the opinion that it doesn't end there. I don't think that is a particularly accurate or useful perspective but you may offer additional evidence as to why you believe it might be so.


Even though you say we now agree (but on what I'm not really sure) I still can't agree with your computer simulation game, although I would never deny you the right to play it.

Yesterday I reread everything concerning God the Ultimate and came across another quote which describes the ascension plan of that experiential era. Just thought I'd share it to be complete, not to belabor the point.

The perfected grand universe of those future days will be vastly different from what it is at present. Gone will be the thrilling adventures of the organization of the galaxies of space, the planting of life on the uncertain worlds of time, and the evolving of harmony out of chaos, beauty out of potentials, truth out of meanings, and goodness out of values. The time universes will have achieved the fulfillment of finite destiny! And perhaps for a space there will be rest, relaxation from the agelong struggle for evolutionary perfection. But not for long! Certainly, surely, and inexorably the enigma of the emerging Deity of God the Ultimate will challenge these perfected citizens of the settled universes just as their struggling evolutionary forebears were once challenged by the quest for God the Supreme. The curtain of cosmic destiny will draw back to reveal the transcendent grandeur of the alluring absonite quest for the attainment of the Universal Father on those new and higher levels revealed in the ultimate of creature experience. 117:7.17

In Friendship,
Rexford


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That's a great paragraph and very uplifting! My point in saying that the ascension career will no longer apply to us only means that we will not have the mission of traveling inward towards Paradise and proceeding from animal to deity embrace. We will have all become as perfect as we could be in that age. That doesn't mean that will not grow or have other missions, as obviously we will.

At that point it seems the shift in focus for us will be to become givers rather than receivers, essentially. Our experiences will have special meaning to the transcendentalers of Outer Space. Will we also develop the ability to see in Absonite realms and alter or create phenomena that have repercussions in infinity? Or will we provide the measuring scales against which the transcendentalers will do so? Either way it will no doubt be an amazing and thrilling adventure.


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P.S. For all we know we may need to rely on the services of pan-infinite Material Controllers - the Outer Space counterpart to our Material Controllers. What are their unusual characteristics again? Do they possess hyper intelligence and capabilities without actually exercising volition? (That could be construed as being something near to a computer) :)


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Hello Riktare,

You wrote:
Riktare wrote:
P.S. For all we know we may need to rely on the services of pan-infinite Material Controllers - the Outer Space counterpart to our Material Controllers. What are their unusual characteristics again? Do they possess hyper intelligence and capabilities without actually exercising volition? (That could be construed as being something near to a computer) :)


Maybe in pretendville. Physical Controllers are beings. They are living and because they are living, they have minds. Mind ministry is bestowed upon life. Life presages mind (see below). Computers are not living and therefore cannot have mind ministry. At least that's the way I understand it.

The vital spark — the mystery of life — is bestowed through the Life Carriers, not by them. They do indeed supervise such transactions, they formulate the life plasm itself, but it is the Universe Mother Spirit who supplies the essential factor of the living plasm. From the Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit comes that energy spark which enlivens the body and presages the mind. 36:3:4

When the Creative Spirit decides to give the spark of life to a computer we'll all know about it, that's for sure. Granted, that computer may not have a personality, which brings self-consciousness and free will, but it will get mind if it's truly alive and then what? Will it follow orders? And who gives the orders? Hmmmm . . . . . .

In Friendship,
Rexford


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(1304.1) 118:9.8 In the eternity of the past the Father and the Son found union in the unity of the expression of the Infinite Spirit. If, in the eternity of the future, the Creator Sons and the Creative Spirits of the local universes of time and space should attain creative union in the realms of outer space, what would their unity create as the combined expression of their divine natures? It may well be that we are to witness a hitherto unrevealed manifestation of Ultimate Deity, a new type of superadministrator. Such beings would embrace unique prerogatives of personality, being the union of personal Creator, impersonal Creative Spirit, mortal-creature experience, and progressive personalization of the Divine Minister. Such beings could be ultimate in that they would embrace personal and impersonal reality, while they would combine the experiences of Creator and creature. Whatever the attributes of such third persons of these postulated functioning trinities of the creations of outer space, they will sustain something of the same relation to their Creator Fathers and their Creative Mothers that the Infinite Spirit does to the Universal Father and the Eternal Son.

(1304.2) 118:9.9 God the Supreme is the personalization of all universe experience, the focalization of all finite evolution, the maximation of all creature reality, the consummation of cosmic wisdom, the embodiment of the harmonious beauties of the galaxies of time, the truth of cosmic mind meanings, and the goodness of supreme spirit values. And God the Supreme will, in the eternal future, synthesize these manifold finite diversities into one experientially meaningful whole, even as they are now existentially united on absolute levels in the Paradise Trinity.


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Rexford wrote:
Maybe in pretendville. Physical Controllers are beings. They are living and because they are living, they have minds. Mind ministry is bestowed upon life. Life presages mind (see below). Computers are not living and therefore cannot have mind ministry. At least that's the way I understand it.


He he :) Probably a lot sooner than the Creative Spirit giving the spark of life to a computer, a clever person will form a computer from living cells. A physical organism is after all a biological machine. Why not put those pesky renegade bacteria to work for us rather than letting them have their own retrogressive ways. :)


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