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I have found, in my own limited experience with the UB, that there are some things that are agreeable to me, and some things that are less so. The whole "Chosen People" issue is a concern for me, since I am a Jew and believe very strongly in that concept. I haven't made any firm decisions about the UB yet, I have more research on it yet to do.But at present time, I am in the position of accepting what I can take from it, and reserving the rest for further review. The whole Jesus thing weirds me out as well, since he plays no part in Jewish belief. I have read the New Testament twice, and was singularly UNimpressed by that.

It seems to me that one should not judge 2,097 pages too harshly based on just a few. Read the WHOLE THING first, then determine what you can accept and what you can't. As a Jew, I question EVERYTHING. I mean, seriously, put four Jews in a room, and you've got five opinions, easily. That's just the way we are. We call it pilpul, which is Yiddish for the art of debate and argument.

Well, its early in the morning, and I am just getting through my first cup of coffee, before I open UB for the day. I'll be back later.


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Hello Yaakov,
You are doing fine -- no one, if they read intelligently and with discernment, can read TUB for the first time without finding issues they either don't believe or that are of concern to them. TUB is not just a nice book about obscure facts. We who study it either give up on it quickly or eventually come to accept its claim of divine authorship and authority... that it is a revelation. The very nature of revelation is to present information heretofore unknown or misunderstood, otherwise revelation would just be revisionist history. We are designed to strain at revelatory messages.

Your decision to keep reading despite concerns is appropriate -- if we all hadn't done that there would be no long-time UB readers today... we have chosen to read beyond our skepticism and are transformed.

Don't be dismayed by what you read about Judaism -- it's a history lesson given by the angels and it's not particularly pleasant for any earthly religion so don't take it as a personal affront. Try more to see it as an observer on the outside looking in.

Again, I'd recommend that you not concentrate on the Jesus papers. There's plenty to pique your interest in the preceding sections.

Best wishes,
Larry


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It seems to me that one should not judge 2,097 pages too harshly based on just a few. Read the WHOLE THING first, then determine what you can accept and what you can't. As a Jew, I question EVERYTHING. I mean, seriously, put four Jews in a room, and you've got five opinions, easily. That's just the way we are. We call it pilpul, which is Yiddish for the art of debate and argument.


I agree absolutely. That’s the right attitude towards the book. When I was reading it for the first time, I also came to this forum and threw some questions but I put more time in my reading than in discussions. I found out the book eventually answered the questions I earlier had. The readers here helped me a lot but I did not take their words for it. I relied more on my own understanding and wanted the book to answer my questions and I was not disappointed.


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lwatkins wrote:
Hello Yaakov,
You are doing fine -- no one, if they read intelligently and with discernment, can read TUB for the first time without finding issues they either don't believe or that are of concern to them. TUB is not just a nice book about obscure facts. We who study it either give up on it quickly or eventually come to accept its claim of divine authorship and authority... that it is a revelation. The very nature of revelation is to present information heretofore unknown or misunderstood, otherwise revelation would just be revisionist history. We are designed to strain at revelatory messages.

As thick as the thing is, as much as its got in it, it would almost be impossible NOT to disagree with some of it. I mean, it not like you are dealing with simple reading here. The first part is easily on a graduate school level. Having been to graduate school, I can personally attest to that.

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Your decision to keep reading despite concerns is appropriate -- if we all hadn't done that there would be no long-time UB readers today... we have chosen to read beyond our skepticism and are transformed.

Don't be dismayed by what you read about Judaism -- it's a history lesson given by the angels and it's not particularly pleasant for any earthly religion so don't take it as a personal affront. Try more to see it as an observer on the outside looking in.

Even as a Jew looking in, we are able to criticise ourselves reasonably well, perhaps, I daresay, better than most religions. We've always been pretty blunt about ourselves. To be frank, we have never been the kind of people that blow smoke up each other's butt. If we have something to say, we generally do, and usually not in the most diplomatic fashion.

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Again, I'd recommend that you not concentrate on the Jesus papers. There's plenty to pique your interest in the preceding sections.

There is probably a good reason those chapters are placed last in the text.

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Best wishes,
Larry



YSMAEL wrote:
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It seems to me that one should not judge 2,097 pages too harshly based on just a few. Read the WHOLE THING first, then determine what you can accept and what you can't. As a Jew, I question EVERYTHING. I mean, seriously, put four Jews in a room, and you've got five opinions, easily. That's just the way we are. We call it pilpul, which is Yiddish for the art of debate and argument.


I agree absolutely. That’s the right attitude towards the book. When I was reading it for the first time, I also came to this forum and threw some questions but I put more time in my reading than in discussions. I found out the book eventually answered the questions I earlier had. The readers here helped me a lot but I did not take their words for it. I relied more on my own understanding and wanted the book to answer my questions and I was not disappointed.

That strikes me as sound advice. The UB seems to be its own set of collegiate courses, in a way. You have Astronomy, Religion, History, and Philosophy all contained in one book. That would be enough to get you at least through one semester in any University that I know of, and I have two BA's and an MA, and have been a professor, so I have seen it from both sides of the desk. The only subject you are missing is Mathematics, and that could wait for the following semester.


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I would guess that a person with indigo elements in their genes would be fascinated to learn that 2 other long lost "races" or folk groups, the orange and the green, contributed heavily to their make up. I have a very good friend who just seems to have an intense orange glow that is very striking and easily appreciated. Learning more about things that are not so visible or recognized can be a positive thing for anyone.

By the way, the wave of recent discoveries in genetics and anthropology is increasingly converging towards many of the concepts in TUB. So it's only obsolete science that is essentially politically opposed to the content of TUB.


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Riktare wrote:
I would guess that a person with indigo elements in their genes would be fascinated to learn that 2 other long lost "races" or folk groups, the orange and the green, contributed heavily to their make up. I have a very good friend who just seems to have an intense orange glow that is very striking and easily appreciated. Learning more about things that are not so visible or recognized can be a positive thing for anyone.

By the way, the wave of recent discoveries in genetics and anthropology is increasingly converging towards many of the concepts in TUB. So it's only obsolete science that is essentially politically opposed to the content of TUB.

Well, ok. I never got too far into the racial section of the book. Just bits and pieces, really. So I can't say I really understood that part. So lets hold that for later, shall we? For now, if we could restrict our dialogue to where I am located in the the book (just finished Ch. 19 and reading at least one Chapter a day, sometimes 2), that would be helpful. I mean, if you are having side conversations with each other, do continue, but in your talks with me, it would be helpful to refrain from going beyond where I am in the text unless I specifically ask you to do so.

Does that make sense? Riktare, I am not trying to be Mr. Killjoy, and I am looking forward to these discussions, but having them before I have read most of the book strikes me as illogical. I hope you understand.

Ya'akov


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Hi Ya'akov,

That makes fine sense. I was partly responding to the original post. I'll try to remember later on today to take a scan of Ch. 19 so that I recall just what the topic was.


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Hi, RIKTARE and ALL:

I have now reached Paper (Ch.) 25. Incidentally, the reason I insist on calling them Chapters is only because it makes it easier for my brain to think when I consider the term "Chapter'" as opposed to "Academic Paper". Papers have chapters themselves. That makes them much more daunting than Chapters of a book. And this book is written such that each Chapter is divided into Sub-chapters, but not enough on their own to be called Chapters, even if you did use the term "Paper" to describe each document. So for me, what I am calling each individual section is the result of a "mind over matter" game that I am playing in my head to help me get through the monster-size book. One could call it a Jedi Mind Trick, if one wanted.

So, what's with this new book, The Way of Escape? What axe does this woman have to grind? I can already tell that she is a "Bible Thumper" type. Ah, you gotta love 'em, don't ya? Don't they just make your day?

When I lived in Clarksville, Tennessee, surrounded completely by the Southern Baptist Convention, I could not get away from the Thumpers. You can imagine what it was like being a Jew in that environment. It definitely decreased my respect for my fellow human of the non-Jewish variety. Fortunately, living in Iowa, that has changed. This State tends to be a "live and let live" environment. Pretty much everyone is Lutheran or occasionally Catholic.

Here, as long as you don't bother anybody about their Lutheranism, they probably won't bother you about your whatever. My wife is a Lutheran, and we were married in her Lutheran Church, and everyone has been very kind, including her minister, who has never tried to be pushy at all.

As far as the UB, my wife knows I am studying it. She does NOT know what it contains, other than that it contains philosophy, religion, history, and scientific theory all in one text. She knows I shall be taking classes at UBIS this next trimester. But I don't think she registers the spiritual relevance of the book. I am not sure what she would do if she found out yet. I am delaying that part until AFTER I have read the book in full. If I am as impressed at the end of the UB as I am at present, I shall make it a point to continue studying, and let my wife in on the significance of the UB.

I must end. Do let me know what axe specifically this woman has to grind. i am curious. Someone update me, people!


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there are some pages omitted but you can still get the main idea from this free preview at google books

http://books.google.com/books?id=zZxuUZUDL0sC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

my take is she was/is just an immature and very unbalanced person (physically, mentally and spiritually), lacking in both self-awareness and self-control, searching for new crutches to replace old crutches and sadly she never outgrew her quasi-magical occultic mentality and outlook but of course she's not able to see that in herself


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I just read some of that text provided in the link you sent. She is, without a doubt, one of the most juvenile persons I have ever encountered. She even writes like an adolescent. I am not impressed.


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