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 Post subject: Hubble Deep Space Video
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This was shared at work today...Awsome to say the least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcBV-cXVWFw


I also got to see Mercury transit the Sun through a large telescope. The sun was hugh and Mercury was a tiny pin point.

I am so blessed and I know you are too...

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Howdy, folks.

Hi, Tootsie. I have a brother who is quite a tinkerer. He builds race cars, motorcycles, mandolins, and telescopes. As a result, my Dad has a very nice 8 inch reflector (The Hubble Space Telescope is a 94 inch reflector). We observed the Mercury transit on it. It was exactly as you describe, a tiny black speck on a big bright sun. We tried to take video, but couldn't get that part to work.

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Hi Arcfixer...that is really cool and fun to do.

Did you watch the video? If you scroll down you'll see my comment as Lemongirl1

I said...Read the Urantia Book for more information.

I felt really good after I posted that. Who knows what moss that rolling stone will gather... :smile:

I am joining the Jr. Astronomy Club at work...here's the link. Sounds like alot of fun. and I know the Astronomers at work love to futz around with building their own stuff to as the pics shows...

http://www2.keck.hawaii.edu/whac/home.html

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Tootsie,

That is a wonderful little video that adds another layer to my continued awe when I consider the breadth of the creation.

Here's a site that I enjoy almost daily: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html It is a daily astronomical image from NASA that ranges from terrestrial to cosmic. The images are extraordinarily beautiful and will, I hope, add another layer to your appreciation of the creation.

William

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Yes, thank you for sharing that Tootsie!

and now...

Image

The Pinwheel Galaxy according to the video is similar to the Milky Way. But what does this represent according to the Urantia Papers?

Is it a:
A) superuniverse
B) major sector
C) minor sector
D) local universe
E) constellation
F) system
G) none of the above

Or do you have another answer? Please supply quotes from TUB to support your answer. The answers of course cannot be found in the back of the book. Good Luck!

Second question...the Hubble Deep Field: most important picture ever taken!

Image

Is this a picture of:
A) the first level of space
B) the second level of space
C) the third level of space
D) the fourth level of space
E) the Master Universe
G) none of the above

Or do you have another answer? Please supply quotes from TUB to support your answer. The answers of course cannot be found in the back of the book. Good Luck!

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Last edited by rhermen on Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:58 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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I love it! now this is what chatting is all about...thanks, I'll put my reading glasses on and get on it... :razz:

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OK Tootsie!

Here's an interesting diagram of something astronomers call The Great Attractor. This is useful in understanding the Milky Way's position to other relatively nearby galaxies...according to modern scientific thought anyway. The Local Group refers to the Milky Way, Andromeda Galaxy (M31), and several smaller galaxies in our galactic neighborhood. The entire Local Group seems to be heading towards the Great Attractor.

Image

If you want you can read more about the Local Group at this link:

http://www.seds.org/MESSIER/more/local.html

Indeed the SEDS website is very usefull to star students of all kinds...

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Well right now I am reading Paper 15 and have to admit I am "Lost in Space" but I'm getting close to an opinion... :wink:

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I'll step out on a limb here....

I've been lightly pondering the type of question that Rhermen asks for some time now. It seems that in light of the infancy of universe-level astronomy that we now posess that we are talking about pining down a moving target (punny metaphor intended).

When I looked at the complexity and size of our own Milky Way I entertained that this might be our local universe, Nebanon. Then I find that scientists have identified that the Milky Way is part of a cluster of galaxies (the size of which already boggles the mind) called the Local Group containing about 30 galaxies.

The relationship between them appears to be that they are each swirling about a gravity center. In turn, the Local Group appears to be being drawn toward the "Great Attractor." The scope of this Great Attractor and the heavenly bodies and groupings directly affected by it enter a realm of abstraction that surpasses my ability to envision.

In light of Urantia Book cosmology, I would speculate that the Local Group of galaxies may be our local universe, Nebanon. The Great Attractor may be the center of the seventh Super Universe, which I assume is also attracting other Local Groups of galaxies (or other local universes in UB-speak).

When you look at the deep space images of the Hubble telescope and are confronted with fantastic numbers of galaxies - each with untold numbers of stars and planets, it is clear that the scope of our understanding has only begun to reveal the vastness of the creation. Mapping it out from our perspective is, at best, a relative understanding. The deep space image is only showing us dots of light in the blackness of space and we are saying, "That dot represents a galaxy with trillions of stars." Trying to correspond our limited empirical understanding of the heavens with our revealed understanding of the heavens (in the UB) may be trying to put the pieces of two puzzles into one image.

While writing this I've been looking at various papers on how others have tried to reconcile the current science with the UB cosmology. There is considerable variance in the interpretations.

Yesterday I was on Google Map and looking at satellite images of various places I've lived and visited on this planet. It was clear to me while looking at these images that there is more than I can really know here on my own world. Trying to gain a thorough understanding of universes is clearly beyond my grasp at this point. So I will just try to relax in the knowlege that our Father will eventually show me all that I need to know.

William

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GOD's Day to All 8) Great Cosmic Art By the Father & Michael :mrgreen: Thanks Tootsie & Randy For the Great Links , & To All . I Am No Star Student , But still I Love Reading & Lookin At Em All . Esp , All the Hubble Stuff . Awsome .

Hi Brother Rhermen MY Guess is that the Milky Way Is ~ A Local Universe Galaxy Center :?:
http://anzwers.org/free/universe/galaxy.html

I Found & Reread This & It Still Blows My Mind . :shock: :idea:
2. ORGANIZATION OF THE SUPERUNIVERSES

p165:6 15:2.1 Only the Universal Father knows the location and actual number of inhabited worlds in space; he calls them all by name and number. I can give only the approximate number of inhabited or inhabitable planets, for some local universes have more worlds suitable for intelligent life than others. Nor have all projected local universes been organized. Therefore the estimates which I offer are solely for the purpose of affording some idea of the immensity of the material creation.

p166:1 15:2.2 There are seven superuniverses in the grand universe, and they are constituted approximately as follows:

p166:2 15:2.3 1. The System. The basic unit of the supergovernment consists of about one thousand inhabited or inhabitable worlds. Blazing suns, cold worlds, planets too near the hot suns, and other spheres not suitable for creature habitation are not included in this group. These one thousand worlds adapted to support life are called a system, but in the younger systems only a comparatively small number of these worlds may be inhabited. Each inhabited planet is presided over by a Planetary Prince, and each local system has an architectural sphere as its headquarters and is ruled by a System Sovereign.

p166:3 15:2.4 2. The Constellation. One hundred systems (about 100,000 inhabitable planets) make up a constellation. Each constellation has an architectural headquarters sphere and is presided over by three Vorondadek Sons, the Most Highs. Each constellation also has a Faithful of Days in observation, an ambassador of the Paradise Trinity.

p166:4 15:2.5 3. The Local Universe. One hundred constellations (about 10,000,000 inhabitable planets) constitute a local universe. Each local universe has a magnificent architectural headquarters world and is ruled by one of the co-ordinate Creator Sons of God of the order of Michael. Each universe is blessed by the presence of a Union of Days, a representative of the Paradise Trinity.

p166:5 15:2.6 4. The Minor Sector. One hundred local universes (about 1,000,000,000 inhabitable planets) constitute a minor sector of the superuniverse government; it has a wonderful headquarters world, wherefrom its rulers, the Recents of Days, administer the affairs of the minor sector. There are three Recents of Days, Supreme Trinity Personalities, on each minor sector headquarters.

p166:6 15:2.7 5. The Major Sector. One hundred minor sectors (about 100,000,000,000 inhabitable worlds) make one major sector. Each major sector is provided with a superb headquarters and is presided over by three Perfections of Days, Supreme Trinity Personalities.

p166:7 15:2.8 6. The Superuniverse. Ten major sectors (about 1,000,000,000,000 inhabitable planets) constitute a superuniverse. Each superuniverse is provided with an enormous and glorious headquarters world and is ruled by three Ancients of Days.

p166:8 15:2.9 7. The Grand Universe. Seven superuniverses make up the present organized grand universe, consisting of approximately seven trillion inhabitable worlds plus the architectural spheres and the one billion inhabited spheres of Havona. The superuniverses are ruled and administered indirectly and reflectively from Paradise by the Seven Master Spirits. The billion worlds of Havona are directly administered by the Eternals of Days, one such Supreme Trinity Personality presiding over each of these perfect spheres.


p167:1 15:2.10 Excluding the Paradise-Havona spheres, the plan of universe organization provides for the following units:
p167:2
p167:3
p167:4
p167:5
p167:6
p167:7
p167:8
Superuniverses 7
Major sectors 70
Minor sectors 7,000
Local universes 700,000
Constellations 70,000,000
Local systems 7,000,000,000
Inhabitable planets 7,000.000,000,000

p167:9 15:2.11 Each of the seven superuniverses is constituted, approximately, as follows:
p167:10
p167:11
p167:12
p167:13
p167:14
p167:15
One system embraces, approximately 1,000 worlds
One constellation (100 systems) 100,000 worlds
One universe (100 constellations) 10,000,000 worlds
One minor sector (100 universes) 1,000,000,000 worlds
One major sector (100 minor sectors) 100,000,000,000 worlds
One superuniverse (10 major sectors) 1,000,000,000,000 worlds

p167:16 15:2.12 All such estimates are approximations at best, for new systems are constantly evolving while other organizations are temporarily passing out of material existence.

3. THE SUPERUNIVERSE OF ORVONTON

p167:17 15:3.1 Practically all of the starry realms visible to the naked eye on Urantia belong to the seventh section of the grand universe, the superuniverse of Orvonton. The vast Milky Way starry system represents the central nucleus of Orvonton, being largely beyond the borders of your local universe. This great aggregation of suns, dark islands of space, double stars, globular clusters, star clouds, spiral and other nebulae, together with myriads of individual planets, forms a watchlike, elongated-circular grouping of about one seventh of the inhabited evolutionary universes.
p167:18 15:3.2 From the astronomical position of Urantia, as you look through the cross section of near-by systems to the great Milky Way, you observe that the spheres of Orvonton are traveling in a vast elongated plane, the breadth being far greater than the thickness and the length far greater than the breadth.
p167:19 15:3.3 Observation of the so-called Milky Way discloses the comparative increase in Orvonton stellar density when the heavens are viewed in one direction, while on either side the density diminishes; the number of stars and other spheres decreases away from the chief plane of our material superuniverse. When the angle of observation is propitious, gazing through the main body of this realm of maximum density, you are looking toward the residential universe and the center of all things.

Cosmic Star Child 8)
Coop


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This diagram isn't so great, but it's the best I can find for now. This represents the Milky Way Galaxy (as well as the Sun's relative placement therein) according to modern scientific thought . The sun's placement is somewhat misrepresented here. As I understand it, the sun has left the Sagittarius Arm behind and is almost entering the Orion Arm. Otherwise, for the purpose of this discussion, this diagram will probably be OK.

Thankyou Coop for the link to anzwers.org! Another useful webpage for star students of all kinds. Coop has submitted some TUB quotes which attempt to define the various terms of cosmic structure of uninspired cosmology presented in the Urantia Papers. How do they relate to this diagram? It is too bad that the Urantia Papers didn't come with diagrams to help explain the meaning of these definitions...

Image

Quote:
"Practically all of the starry realms visible to the naked eye on Urantia belong to the seventh section of the grand universe, the superuniverse of Orvonton. The vast Milky Way starry system represents the central nucleus of Orvonton, being largely beyond the borders of your local universe."


As I understand this quote, the Milky Way cannot be a local universe, but is purported to be the central nucleus of Orvonton. How big is Orvonton purported to be according to TUB? On a night with excellent viewing conditions, away from the interference of city lights, there are at least two-thousand stars visible to the naked eye. All of them belong to the Milky Way. However, during the autumn, those of us who live in the northern hemisphere can just barely see the Andromeda Galaxy with the naked eye if you know precisely where to look and given excellent viewing conditions. Given this quote, the Local Universe of Nebadon could only be a small part of the Milky Way and not the entire galaxy. Just what are the borders of our local universe as defined by TUB?

Quote:
"Observation of the so-called Milky Way discloses the comparative increase in Orvonton stellar density when the heavens are viewed in one direction, while on either side the density diminishes; the number of stars and other spheres decreases away from the chief plane of our material superuniverse. When the angle of observation is propitious, gazing through the main body of this realm of maximum density, you are looking toward the residential universe and the center of all things."



Image

During August, our view (from the northern hemisphere) of the center of the Milky Way is at its best. But the view from the southern hemisphere, as this picture might suggest, is far more spectacular! Given the diagram which attempts a schematic view from above and the photo which is a view from within, what structures could possibly be major sectors or minor sectors? Perhaps a search of the Urantia Papers using the words "Milky Way" would be helpful to obtain more quotes relevant to this discussion...

Tootsie is right. The Urantia Book certainly gives us more information in terms of Astronomy and Cosmology, but how does this information compare with observed reality?

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Hi ya'll.

Yes, I do want to ask or know just how far out into space we can see. I know the book does talk about Life on a nearby planet and we ain't seeing that yet.

That is one of my motivations for joining the astronomy club...to have the time to discuss these thing with the astronomers. Not that they will have the answers but they are looking through the largest telescope in the world...Keck. There are plans to build a larger one and Chili is a proposed site.

PS...boy was I embarassed on Friday. I sent out a image from space I received in an e-mail...Called Sunset from Space, taken from the Columbia on it's last voyage. Well I posted it on the intercompany bulletin to all the employees. :roll: ..Immediately got a response from a guy saying it was a false image with a link to Snopes...it was a digital composite...I immediately sent out a "Whoops" message...Oh, well that's one way to be remembered... :P I am still working through it...One guy said. Don't worry about it...they just love to jump on stuff like that.

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Tootsie, both the Hubble Deep Space Field and Ultra Deep Space Field photos are the current limit of "how far out into space we can see." And if we could look into our own body in the same manner, we would see exactly the same thing!

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GOD's Day To All

I Like The Milkyway Candy Bars, but this Site Is Still , pretty Kool Too . 8) Chandra Explores "Downtown" In The Milky Way

Illustration of Galactic Center
CXC/A.Hobart
June 28, 2004 :: We live in the suburbs of the giant, spiral Milky Way galaxy. Earth is about 25,000 light years from the teeming, tumultuous Galactic Center where most of the action takes place. On the one hand, that's probably a good thing for fragile creatures such as ourselves. On the other hand, we are also incurably curious and would like to know what's happening there.

For modern-day optical telescopes that routinely look at objects billions of light years away, examining a region only 25,000 light years distant shouldn't present much of a problem. However, it's not that simple. Like many crowded cities on Earth, the smog in the Galactic Center is terrible. Dust and gas produced by millions of massive stars makes it impossible for the most powerful optical telescopes to see into this region.

Fortunately, other options are now available. Radio, infrared, X-ray and gamma-ray radiation can travel through the Galactic smog and be captured by telescopes sensitive to these forms of light. Using this information, astronomers have been gradually piecing together a picture of the center of the Milky Way. Chandra's unique ability to resolve X-ray sources as small as a tenth of a light year across in the Galactic Center has led to major advances in our understanding of the high-energy activity there. It has also posed some mysteries.

http://chandra.harvard.edu/chronicle/02 ... index.html

This is Far Out , 8)
http://chandra.harvard.edu/graphics/res ... ctr_lg.mov


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Thank you again Coop-another relevant link to this thread which Tootsie has started!

from paper 41 pg 459:
Quote:
"Better methods of space measurement and improved telescopic technique will sometime more fully disclose the ten grand divisions of the superuniverse of Orvonton; you will at least recognize eight of these immense sectors as enormous and fairly symmetrical star clusters."


Chandra is an X-ray telescope. There are other telescopes, such as the Spitzer, which are devoted to viewing the sky in other bands of the EM spectrum. The above schematic diagram is a composite understanding made possible by synthesizing information from many different sources including Chandra and Spitzer. But this quote seems to describe the Major Sectors of Ovonton, although the major galactic arms could hardly be described as "symmetrical star clusters"; they somewhat fit the description of Major Sectors.

Quote:
"We live in the suburbs of the giant, spiral Milky Way galaxy. Earth is about 25,000 light years from the teeming, tumultuous Galactic Center where most of the action takes place."


Actually, the Milky Way is deemed to be a barred spiral galaxy, according to information gleaned from all the modern telescopes which have/are contributing to modern scientific understanding. But the estimate varies according to the source, and the Earth is purported to be somewhere between 25,000 to 30,000 light years from galactic center. Also, the estimate of the diameter of the Milky Way varies according to the source. The Milky Way is currently estimated to be between 90,000 to 120,000 light years in diameter.

Image

Here is one of many views of the center of the galaxy from information gleaned by Chandra X-ray observatory looking towards an area of the sky equi-distant between the constellations we call Sagittarius, Scorpius, and Ophiuchus. To the best of our modern understanding this is "the angle of propitious observation, gazing through the main body of this realm of maximum density."

from paper 32 pg 359-360:
Quote:
The Satania system of inhabited worlds is far removed from Uversa and that great sun cluster which functions as the physical or astronomic center of the seventh superuniverse. From Jerusem, the headquarters of Satania, it is over two hundred thousand light-years to the physical center of the superuniverse of Orvonton, far, far away in the dense diameter of the Milky Way. Satania is on the periphery of the local universe, and Nebadon is now well out towards the edge of Orvonton. From the outermost system of inhabited worlds to the center of the superuniverse is a trifle less than two hundred and fifty thousand light-years.


What Chandra X-ray observatory views in the above photo could most definitely be called a great sun cluster at the center of the Milky Way. This is has been given the designation of Sagittarius A* by modern scientists. But according to the same rationality, since Earth is only about 25,000 to 30,000 light years from Sagittarius A*, we arrive at a perplexing situation relevant to this quote from TUB and observed reality, because the observed center of the Milky Way (purported by TUB to be the central nucleus of Ovonton) is much closer to our world than this quote from TUB seems to indicate. Searching the Urantia Papers using the key word "Sagittarius" yields some more information, which doesn't seem to make the picture any clearer. For example:

paper 41 pg 455:
Quote:
Such is the constitution of the local star cloud of Nebadon, which today swings in an increasingly settled orbit about the Sagittarius center of that minor sector of Orvonton to which our local creation belongs.


See the problem? The area of the densest part of the Milky Way (Sagittarius A*) has yielded something very interesting by the use of our increased technology. But the Urantia Papers seems to give more than one definition to this same area of the galaxy. Well, which is it? The center nucleus of Orvonton, as a previous quote indicates, a Major Sector as another quote indicates, or the center of that minor sector of Orvonton, as this quote would seem to indicate?

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