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Hi everyone,
I left Christianity and the Bible +- 3 years ago and I follow deism until someone introduced me to the UB last year. I've been reading the UB for some time but I can't understand why the UB quotes or tries to correct the stories of the Bible? This is a huge disappointment for me since I reject the Bible and I do not feel comfortable when the UB quotes the Bible (it only quotes the Bible, not any other holy book) or uses some of its "heroes". Nowhere the UB quotes the Quran, the Vedas or any other holy book but just the Bible, and I have a BIG BIG problem with that the Bible is a book full of fairy tales and fantasy stories. The UB has great cosmology but why spoil it with the Bible stories? IF the Urantia Book is a WORLDWIDE revelation to EVERY human being on this planet it should avoid so much Bible and be more EQUAL or not quoting the Bible at all. A person who has Buddhism or Hinduism as their background would NEVER accept the Urantia Book teachings because it is too much "Jewish\Christian" and most of them probably NEVER read the Bible at all to understand who is Abraham or Moses or any other biblical character quoted in the UB much less the corrections it makes to the Jewish stories. I want to believe the UB but some things are just ridiculous to me. I give you an example: Why the UB tries to explain the origin of the Shabbat if perhaps 99% of the people in the world never kept the Shabbat in their lives??? I see here the touch of Saddler's Adventism. I was an Adventist too and the way the book explains the origin of Shabbat is the same way the Seventh Day Adventist Church prophet which by coincidence was Saddler's friend explains it. I feel that the UB is more of a Western creation or to the Western world than a WORLDWIDE revelation as it claims


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ketsune23 wrote:
This is a huge disappointment for me since I reject the Bible and I do not feel comfortable when the UB quotes the Bible (it only quotes the Bible, not any other holy book) or uses some of its "heroes".

It takes time to get familiar enough with the entirety of the UB to realize that it contains many references and quotes from holy books other than the Bible. (See Paper 131 for example)

May I ask, have you read Part 4 yet?


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Hello ketsune23...

Here is a section from TruthBook's topical study on the fifth epochal revelation (The Urantia Book) that might help you to reframe your understanding of the issue that you are presenting here:

Quote:
Epochal revelation builds upon itself; each revelation advances the ideas of the last revelation

Adam and Eve could came only as a result of the advances made from the Planetary Prince's reign.

On our world, Melchizedek came after Adam and Eve (not a normal progression) because of the default of the Edenic pair, and the ensuing loss of the one-God concept among the races of mankind.

Melchizedek prepared the way for Jesus, who revealed the one-God concept - again in the form of a human being.

The Urantia Papers came about 2000 years after Jesus, again revealing the loving Father that Jesus had personified for us; The Urantia Book also contains the complete restatement of the life and teachings of Jesus, filling in the gaps in Scripture, which was the only real earthly record of his amazing life up until then.


On reading this, maybe you can see why there is so much emphasis and quotation from the Bible. It is all that the world has had as a documentation of Jesus' life and teachings. It is the standard of reference for most, if not all, Christians - really, the whole world. The Urantia Book harmonizes the Bible with the new revelation of Jesus' life by clarifying, sorting, and correcting.

Jesus did a lot of that, too. The Scripture of his day was looked upon as being inerrant, but he strove to clarify it for his followers. He strove to emphasize the best of the Scripture, while de-emphasizing the parts that were not consistent with his revelation of the Father.

The other books that you mention are not part of any other epochal revelation, but the Bible is.

You can have a better look at that topical study by going here: https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/the-fifth-epochal-revelation

And here is that wonderful discourse of Jesus to Nathaniel about the truth of Scripture: https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-159-the-decapolis-tour#U159_4_1

Finally, continue down in that paper to read about the positive nature of Jesus' religion that expands upon this idea: https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-159-the-decapolis-tour#U159_5_1


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nodAmanaV wrote:
ketsune23 wrote:
This is a huge disappointment for me since I reject the Bible and I do not feel comfortable when the UB quotes the Bible (it only quotes the Bible, not any other holy book) or uses some of its "heroes".

It takes time to get familiar enough with the entirety of the UB to realize that it contains many references and quotes from holy books other than the Bible. (See Paper 131 for example)

May I ask, have you read Part 4 yet?



No, I haven't read part 4 yet only 1 and 3 mainly 3 but I skimmed it and it looks very similar to the book "The desired of Ages" from the Adventist Prophet Ellen White. I was an Adventist and I know both, also both used Edersheim a lot for example. I think it was a well known Christian source from the late 19th century. The Jesus of the UB looks like a guy from the earlier 20th century than a Jew from the 1st century although I think the Jesus from the UB is closer to the real one. You cant never be too sure.

Well, they might be quoted in Paper 131 but what it is that compared to the whole book? Many times in Part 1 it is quoted the Psalms and other bible books to explain God's nature ect.


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maryjo606 wrote:
Hello ketsune23...

Here is a section from TruthBook's topical study on the fifth epochal revelation (The Urantia Book) that might help you to reframe your understanding of the issue that you are presenting here:

Quote:
Epochal revelation builds upon itself; each revelation advances the ideas of the last revelation

Adam and Eve could came only as a result of the advances made from the Planetary Prince's reign.

On our world, Melchizedek came after Adam and Eve (not a normal progression) because of the default of the Edenic pair, and the ensuing loss of the one-God concept among the races of mankind.

Melchizedek prepared the way for Jesus, who revealed the one-God concept - again in the form of a human being.

The Urantia Papers came about 2000 years after Jesus, again revealing the loving Father that Jesus had personified for us; The Urantia Book also contains the complete restatement of the life and teachings of Jesus, filling in the gaps in Scripture, which was the only real earthly record of his amazing life up until then.


On reading this, maybe you can see why there is so much emphasis and quotation from the Bible. It is all that the world has had as a documentation of Jesus' life and teachings. It is the standard of reference for most, if not all, Christians - really, the whole world. The Urantia Book harmonizes the Bible with the new revelation of Jesus' life by clarifying, sorting, and correcting.

Jesus did a lot of that, too. The Scripture of his day was looked upon as being inerrant, but he strove to clarify it for his followers. He strove to emphasize the best of the Scripture, while de-emphasizing the parts that were not consistent with his revelation of the Father.

The other books that you mention are not part of any other epochal revelation, but the Bible is.

You can have a better look at that topical study by going here: https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/the-fifth-epochal-revelation

And here is that wonderful discourse of Jesus to Nathaniel about the truth of Scripture: https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-159-the-decapolis-tour#U159_4_1

Finally, continue down in that paper to read about the positive nature of Jesus' religion that expands upon this idea: https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-159-the-decapolis-tour#U159_5_1


How can the Bible be all of that if it was only made 400 years after Jesus? Even the OT canon was not closed until the 2 century AD? Besides that, I am not convinced that the Hebrews were that advanced compared to other civilizations around them. I do not think Monotheism is superior to Polytheism. I do not find of ANY interest knowing that Enoch had his fusion with the Taught Adjuster in life or I don't also buy the idea that 97:2:3 (1064.4) The era of Elijah and Elisha closed with the better classes returning to the worship of the supreme Yahweh and witnessed the restoration of the idea of the Universal Creator to about that place where Samuel had left it. ONLY people that read the Bible or are familiar with it can understand the things the UB corrects. Besides that Hinduism taught the existence of the Universal God or Deity way before Elisha. The Vedas, for example, have many scientific information that was already confirmed in our days by Science, and the UB never quotes them. It's only the Bible from page 1 to the last. I don't find any usefulness in knowing about Moses, Elisha, or even Adam and Eve or Lucifer's rebellion sounds to me more fantasy than anything else. All of this is Christian stories even the Adventists and the Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Lucifer's rebellion in Heaven too. The only questions that matters to me is the Universe which the UB has a great answer and cosmology, our origins and our afterlife. I think the UB answers that perfectly I just don't understand the obsession with the Bible. Sometimes I cant finish a Paper due to the amount of Bible verses it quotes. Basically the parts that the UB has as ORIGINALS are the best ones the others are just about the Bible

I dont see any superiority in Hebrew scriptures compared to the Avesta or the Vedas. IN fact, the Hebrew Scriptures are a bunch of plagiarism from other sources and an adaptation to the Hebrew mindset. The UB says that the book of Psalms is one of the best works ever written although it is full of plagiarism and ideas from Baalism, Ashera, and Egyptian wisdom.


Last edited by ketsune23 on Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:56 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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It seems to me that the UB is more of an alternative Bible than a UNIVERSAL revelation.


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ketsune23 says:

Quote:
ONLY people that read the Bible or are familiar with it can understand the things the UB corrects.


I was never a Bible reader, outside of the gospels that were read in the Catholic Mass in my earlier days. But the UB made me very curious to delve into the Bible, which has been enlightening to me. And that discourse of Jesus, referenced above, really put my head on straight regarding the Bible.

It sounds like you have quite a few issues with The Urantia Book. Not everyone harmonizes with it, or finds it as helpful as others do. There is truth to be found in many holy traditions, such as the ones you mention here. And it's healthy and helpful to embrace the truth, wherever you find it. That's what Jesus did, too.

Quote:
Jesus had an unerring ability for the recognition of truth, and truth he never hesitated to embrace, no matter from what source it appeared to emanate.


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maryjo606 wrote:
ketsune23 says:

Quote:
ONLY people that read the Bible or are familiar with it can understand the things the UB corrects.


I was never a Bible reader, outside of the gospels that were read in the Catholic Mass in my earlier days. But the UB made me very curious to delve into the Bible, which has been enlightening to me. And that discourse of Jesus, referenced above, really put my head on straight regarding the Bible.

It sounds like you have quite a few issues with The Urantia Book. Not everyone harmonizes with it, or finds it as helpful as others do. There is truth to be found in many holy traditions, such as the ones you mention here. And it's healthy and helpful to embrace the truth, wherever you find it. That's what Jesus did, too.

Quote:
Jesus had an unerring ability for the recognition of truth, and truth he never hesitated to embrace, no matter from what source it appeared to emanate.


I was an Adventist like the publishers of the UB and I know in the church we were warned a lot about the "Kellog's Apostasy". I find very curious that a separatist group of Adventists could form a religion like the one in the UB. I am open to new ideas and to explore new books and I believe that everything should be tested. I am currently studying the UB but I also want to study the book of the Spirits by Allan Kardec which looks to me more reasonable than the UB. Greetings


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I find very curious that a separatist group of Adventists could form a religion like the one in the UB.


I can see why you mght have issues with the book. However, I suspect that most people who read it are not all that familiar with Adventists. I am not, and only became aware of the Adventists in relation to Dr Sadler. I am not drawn to their religion at all.

There is no promotion of a particular evolutionary (man made) religion to follow in the UB - not even Christianity. And Adventists are not mentioned at all. I just did a cursory search on the Adventists and it appears that the Adventists are aligned with Protestantism more than anything else... really just another sect of Christianity that teaches salvation by faith in Jesus..

The only religion that is recommended in The Urantia Book is the religion of personal spiritual experience that Jesus practiced and taught.

See more about that here: https://truthbook.com/urantia/topical-studies/the-religion-of-jesus

Best Wishes in your search for truth!


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maryjo606 wrote:
Quote:
I find very curious that a separatist group of Adventists could form a religion like the one in the UB.


I can see why you mght have issues with the book. However, I suspect that most people who read it are not all that familiar with Adventists. I am not, and only became aware of the Adventists in relation to Dr Sadler. I am not drawn to their religion at all.

There is no promotion of a particular evolutionary (man made) religion to follow in the UB - not even Christianity. And Adventists are not mentioned at all. I just did a cursory search on the Adventists and it appears that the Adventists are aligned with Protestantism more than anything else... really just another sect of Christianity that teaches salvation by faith in Jesus..

The only religion that is recommended in The Urantia Book is the religion of personal spiritual experience that Jesus practiced and taught.

See more about that here: https://truthbook.com/urantia/topical-studies/the-religion-of-jesus

Best Wishes in your search for truth!



Indeed the UB is very different from Adventism. It occurred to me that the UB is a book of questions and answers and the people that made the questions to the celestial beings were more familiar with the bible that made more questions about what they believed and knew? Is that right?


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ketsune23, that seems reasonable to assume, but I don't think anyone knows for sure what the specific questions were. Here's a little info about the process:

Quote:
It was while these informal discussions were going on from week to week that the challenge came to us suggesting that if we would ask more serious questions we might get information of value to all mankind.

The Forum Begins To Ask Questions
We told the Forum all about this and invited them to join us in the preparation of question. We decided to start out with questions pertaining to the origin of the cosmos, Deity, creation, and such other subjects as were far beyond the present-day knowledge of all humankind.

The following Sunday several hundred questions were brought in. We sorted out these questions, discarding duplicates, and in a general way, classifying them. Shortly thereafter, the first Urantia Paper appeared in answer to these questions. From first to last, when the Papers appeared, the questions disappeared.

This was the procedure followed throughout the many years of the reception of the Urantia Papers. No questions—no Papers.


This quote is from "A History of the Urantia Movement" here: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-foundation/history


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maryjo606 wrote:
ketsune23, that seems reasonable to assume, but I don't think anyone knows for sure what the specific questions were. Here's a little info about the process:

Quote:
It was while these informal discussions were going on from week to week that the challenge came to us suggesting that if we would ask more serious questions we might get information of value to all mankind.

The Forum Begins To Ask Questions
We told the Forum all about this and invited them to join us in the preparation of question. We decided to start out with questions pertaining to the origin of the cosmos, Deity, creation, and such other subjects as were far beyond the present-day knowledge of all humankind.

The following Sunday several hundred questions were brought in. We sorted out these questions, discarding duplicates, and in a general way, classifying them. Shortly thereafter, the first Urantia Paper appeared in answer to these questions. From first to last, when the Papers appeared, the questions disappeared.

This was the procedure followed throughout the many years of the reception of the Urantia Papers. No questions—no Papers.


This quote is from "A History of the Urantia Movement" here: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-foundation/history


Thank you for your time. I still think the UB is the best source of revelation religion we have and I enjoy learn with it. I just would like to understand this connection to the Bible. Anyway, I will keep reading it and learning.


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ketsune23 wrote:
I just would like to understand this connection to the Bible.

It has to do with who Jesus is.

During the reading of Part 4 the connection to the Bible will become clear.

And much much more that has nothing to do with the Bible and everything to do with who we are and what our destiny is.


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Greetings All,

This is my first post on the forum. Before commenting on the topic, allow me to introduce you to a brief biography on me. I have been reading the Urantia book for a couple decades, on and off. I believe I have a strong grasp of its concepts, enough so, at least, to identify when a claim strays from or is built upon its content, so to speak. Admittedly I cannot call on demand passages from the book off memory like many of you; however, I know enough to make sense of the book's overall message. With that said, I want to agree with the original poster's message; that is, the Urantia book definitely has a Judeo-Christian slant and bias. I think one would be hard pressed not to admit this fact. It seems the authors used the Bible as a base to enlarge many cosmic concepts. Notwithstanding, those concepts are built on the Judeo-Christian paradigm.

Perhaps its authors were honing in on the West, knowing that those of the West are global influencers who could translate the message into the language and religion of others. Not sure the intent behind centralizing Urantia concepts around the West, just me speculating.


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Welcome Enlightened One!

I think perhaps Paper 121 explains the perspective. The Roman Empire and the Judaic monotheism were the reasons for the site selection for Michael's 7th bestowal. The location and family were selected with great specificity, historical specificity as well as cultural and religious.

Paper 97 also helps give context to the issue.

97:10.8 (1076.5) And thus the successive teachers of Israel accomplished the greatest feat in the evolution of religion ever to be effected on Urantia: the gradual but continuous transformation of the barbaric concept of the savage demon Yahweh, the jealous and cruel spirit god of the fulminating Sinai volcano, to the later exalted and supernal concept of the supreme Yahweh, creator of all things and the loving and merciful Father of all mankind. And this Hebraic concept of God was the highest human visualization of the Universal Father up to that time when it was further enlarged and so exquisitely amplified by the personal teachings and life example of his Son, Michael of Nebadon.

Also see Paper 68 - The Dawn of Civilization - which describes the very birth of civilization in this region. All long before Judaism. The world's ancient history is well specified. Check it out!

To claim that the UB is Christian or Judaic centric is a real stretch and ignores the obvious historical record provided I think. The UB is truly Machiventa centric I think. See Papers 93-98. The history of religion and Michael's bestowal is the story of Melchizedek's missionaries and evolutionary monotheism. The Greco/Roman/Judaic/Egyptian Mediterranean cultures carried the Garden and Andite and Melchizedek's teachings and traditions more so than any other locations or cultures.

Is it surprising that the territory surrounding the Garden and Dalamatia and Van's tribal lands are the district which world history and religious traditions of 500,000 years are centered?

I don't think so...no.

8)


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