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Many UB readers believe that the revelations are without error, similar to Christians who claim the Bible is the inerrant word of God. I am not one to shy away from imposing critical thinking on the content of UB as I pride myself on always pushing my thinking, and challenging my preconceived notions. As I continue to re-read the revelations, I find that frequently I am taking away from UB preconceived notions as it is a book centered primarily on faith.

Recently I was reading the following revelation delivered by Jesus to Nathaniel:

Quote:
159:4.8 (1768.4) “Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.


I want to hone in on this part:

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Nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible," and "Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity.


Question# 1: Within the above context, what does "touch" mean, and has human nature touched the revelations?

Question# 2: Was the revelation transmitted through the mind of man? If yes, does that then qualify the revelations as relative and partial in terms of purity and divinity?

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Who can answer your questions to your satisfaction? I will presume your sincerity, but you are the only one who can answer your questions. We are humans here, thus fallible, so why would you trust our answers?

You either have faith in it or you don't. There's no punishment by God (in mho) if you don't, so make a decision.

I have faith in it, but I don't think it is infallible, because the celestial revelators don't claim to be. They touchingly admit to partial knowledge and incomplete experience. They admit to knowing as little as humans about some of the mysteries of the Father's Universes.

In my opinion the UB is here for those of us who asked for it, and needed it. It's a divine gift, but God knows other ways to reach his children. Ask him for help, I'm not sure we are qualified to give it.


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The UB did not originate in, by, or through mortal mind... according to the authors.

The presentation of universe reality is a factual and literal presentation intended to reduce the confusions and eliminate the errors of humanity's reality perspective and perception and philosophy.

But, as gizmo says, we are not gathered here to convince anyone of anything. Your beliefs are up to you.

Who has made the claim in the topic title and first line of your post?? But it has been you here claiming errors you cannot or have not substantiated. Your skepticism is well known here for many years now as a matter of record. So far, not one single error demonstrated. Try another such claim??

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Skepticism isn't a bad position when confronted by something new, strange, or incomprehensible. I'm a skeptic at times. But it only serves as a temporary stance, until you can decide to accept or reject, and then leave the matter alone. A permanent skeptic is not a courageous person.

Perhaps you can read the UB all the way through one more time, but this time read it "as if" it were true. Suspend disbelief and withhold judgement. Keep a clear and open mind. Sincerely want to know the validity of it, and just read.

If this exercise interests you, and you actually do it, I would love to hear your final verdict. Are you up for it?


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gizmo, thanks for participating on the thread. One of my skepticism is in the race papers; for the most part, I reject its claims. This particular revelation is not wholly divine in origin, in my opinion as it appears to have been written by a human(s); the race papers significantly reflect the racial sentiment of the scientific community of the early 20th century.

While UB purports that early humanity was split into six distinct races (Sangik races), the concept of race itself is biologically baseless, and actually, is an artificial construction. According to modern science, biologically, there is no difference within the human race. Our differences are merely superficial (skin color), rather. Yet the revelation asserts that there were originally "six evolutionary races of color" and that there is an association between color and intelligence (see: 64:6.3 (723.2) ; 64:6.10 (723.9) ; 64:6.14 (724.4) ; 64:6.17 (724.7) ; 64:6.21 (725.2) ; 64:6.24 (725.5) ; 64:6.25 (725.6).) The notion that there is a link between race and intelligence was born of the early 20th century when scientists believed humanity was divided into races and there existed differences in intelligence between each.

I bought up this topic out of curiosity to see what readers' views are in light of the references I furnished. Again, thanks for participating.

gizmo wrote:
Who can answer your questions to your satisfaction? I will presume your sincerity, but you are the only one who can answer your questions. We are humans here, thus fallible, so why would you trust our answers?

You either have faith in it or you don't. There's no punishment by God (in mho) if you don't, so make a decision.

I have faith in it, but I don't think it is infallible, because the celestial revelators don't claim to be. They touchingly admit to partial knowledge and incomplete experience. They admit to knowing as little as humans about some of the mysteries of the Father's Universes.

In my opinion the UB is here for those of us who asked for it, and needed it. It's a divine gift, but God knows other ways to reach his children. Ask him for help, I'm not sure we are qualified to give it.

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gizmo wrote:
Skepticism isn't a bad position when confronted by something new, strange, or incomprehensible. I'm a skeptic at times.


Agreed. And I would also add that skepticism can take root when we begin to evolve an understanding and see ideas we accept differently.

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But it only serves as a temporary stance, until you can decide to accept or reject, and then leave the matter alone.


Agreed.

Quote:
A permanent skeptic is not a courageous person.


Agreed. At some point, a decision has to be made on one's stance on a subject.

Quote:
Perhaps you can read the UB all the way through one more time, but this time read it "as if" it were true. Suspend disbelief and withhold judgement. Keep a clear and open mind. Sincerely want to know the validity of it, and just read.
If this exercise interests you, and you actually do it, I would love to hear your final verdict. Are you up for it?


I have been reading the revelations nearly 30 years, have given the race papers the benefit of the doubt, re-visited them several times in study, but today I am convinced they're tainted. I don't see the point re-addressing them with a renewed mindset. I have already done so.

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Paper 51, Section 4 should be read here as well and the entirety of 51 helps put these issues in perspective. Each aboriginal race carries and delivers desirable traits lacking in the others which contribute to the evolutionary process of integrating amalgamation and hybridization for the simultaneous infusion of violet blood and cultural evolution of a world.

Urantia's evolutionary story is far different. But these patterns of mortal species evolutionary progress appear uniform and more predictable in outcome perhaps than here. It is very unusual for all 6 to appear in one place and also in one generation which made for the immediacy of proximity conflicts which deprived the planet of the true potential of more harmonious and long term amalgamation.

There is meant to be but one human race as I understand it, a fully blended planetary race of one blood and one language and one government and one philosophy and one culture that has been taught and led by the Garden Cultural Center and Heritage, including the full integration of the violet bloodline by millions of Adam and Eve's children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc. for thousands of generations until no "racial" distinction exists.

Today on Urantia all people everywhere fall far short of this superior racial ideal, but we are told that slowly, generation by generation, the violet bloodline we all share delivers its intended effects as we slowly complete our amalgamation through the mortal epochs.

Brotherly love and service to one another has never been differentiated by color or culture except as tainted by ego, fear, ignorance, primitivism, immaturity, and other forms of mortal evil and misunderstanding. Biological genetics of mortals is normally improved and strengthened by hybridization through amalgamation....just like all other life forms are.

It is our own bias and prejudice and entrenched attitudes that make this topic difficult for some I think. Here are some historical topics on the issues of the Sangkiks and Eugenics. This topic has been discussed before of course...especially by BB. Much of that discussion per the links below is in Abner's Corner and requires login.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2822&hilit=Race+OR+racial&start=0

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3724&hilit=Race+OR+racial&start=0


viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4004&hilit=Race+OR+racial

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2421&hilit=Race+OR+racial

From BB a few years ago, posting then as kahanya:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4353&hilit=Race+OR+racial

Another by BB/kahanya:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4637&hilit=Race+OR+racial


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By the way, the UB does not claim to be the word or words of God or inerrant or from God or by God and in 40 years of private and public study, I've never once heard a serious student claim that.

As to the two questions posted, each author makes it clear that they present the facts and truths of reality according to their own understanding and often share confusions and mysteries with answers which remain unknown and uncertain and unrevealed to them...including those from Paradise and the Super Universe levels...very ancient, experienced ,wise, trusted, and knowledgeable sources of fact and truth.

Still...they are celestials and not Deity. So what? BB has long been intent here to share his doubts and disbelief and seek support for his many and frequent disagreements and fears. May we all learn thereby.

:smile: 8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:24 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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BB is known for unneeded and inaccurate sensationalism as if writing tabloid headlines for grocery store rags. Just sayin'...


This is a totally unnecessary dig at another member here. Please leave your personal opinions about others out of your postings. It brings nothing but trouble, as you should well know.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
According to modern science, biologically, there is no difference within the human race.

haha but I have to disagree; I think even siblings within the same household are different, materially or racially. We are not all twins of each other, after all. There are racial differences between every single human individual. The 2% or .2%, even .02% (even a single gene, yeah?) genetic difference is a significant portion of human makeup, that will pose the subtle differentials of sacred geometry (protein transcription), and thus determine marked differences in the optimum expression of human personality.

I pity you because maybe you think every woman has the same genetic makeup? You cannot appreciate the subtleties that evoke the great mystery, how their personalities gave to the selection process within their bodies, what emotions, what hormones, what proteins to manifest in each moment.

Well, you can say there are reports and recommendations that are indeed distasteful or questionable, found from the racial papers. I am indeed very leary about the descriptions and recommendations found here, for the same reasons as you. But do you agree or disagree with the theory, that "Genetics is the foundation for human intellectual capacity." I think that you have to apply justice to yourself, your own family. Start with a liberal goal and say every person who is reared in this household should have this right, to find a mate and raise a family. And the racial issue becomes not as important as the practical matters of a household, of parental wherewith. In the future, this kind of demonstration will become more important: loyalty and devotion. And if you asks me, that is what is required for evolution, and every race is evolving, and progress is what matters, not relative merit or endowment.

We need to sanctify that type of partnership, and I cannot assume that evolution prospers in an fatherless environment where mothers teach their sons how they like to be treated (after accepting the neglect of the partner, the faux ends of material sustenance, and "all that glam"), a pattern where sons think it is okay to abandon the house after life had begun.

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fanofvan:
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BB has long been intent here to share his doubts and disbelief and seek support for his many and frequent disagreements and fears. May we all learn thereby.


Again with the personal jab. Completely inappropriate. Everyone here is capable of discernment the same as you. Please allow for all to form their own opinions about what others post here. Personal opinions about other personalities here (unless constructive/positive) are out of place and against the rules of posting.

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maryjo606 wrote:
fanofvan:
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BB has long been intent here to share his doubts and disbelief and seek support for his many and frequent disagreements and fears. May we all learn thereby.


Again with the personal jab. Completely inappropriate. Everyone here is capable of discernment the same as you. Please allow for all to form their own opinions about what others post here. Personal opinions about other personalities here (unless constructive/positive) are out of place and against the rules of posting.

maryjo


This is not a comment on anyone's personality as you accuse me of. It is an observation of BB'S topics, titles, ideas, and claims here historically and recently...such as abandonment by our TA's, mind invasion by rebel angels, lost souls without TA's in Mansonia subject to possession by evil spirits....and so many more.

Here he claims what many others believe and say without evidence and which is also false so far as I know...but no challenge or correction by you? I thought the words and ideas of posters could be commented on and discussed? The fact of BB'S doubts and disbeliefs is obvious and confirmed by BB in this very thread!

I want to know WHO claims the UB is the inerrant Revelation of God? Who said this? When? Where? Pure fiction and a paper tiger of sensationalism...no matter which personality claims it. It's attention seeking.


Last edited by fanofVan on Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:26 am +0000, edited 3 times in total.

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I think we are all different at the individual level. But where it gets dicey is the claim that we are different at the group level; and many believe humanity can be separated into groups (races). I used to subscribe to it, but not any more. My current position is supported by today's science.

My question to you is if the science of the times rebuts a scientific claim in the UB then to whom or what do you defer your position, SEla_Kelly? Science or UB?




SEla_Kelly wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
According to modern science, biologically, there is no difference within the human race.

haha but I have to disagree; I think even siblings within the same household are different, materially or racially. We are not all twins of each other, after all. There are racial differences between every single human individual. The 2% or .2%, even .02% (even a single gene, yeah?) genetic difference is a significant portion of human makeup, that will pose the subtle differentials of sacred geometry (protein transcription), and thus determine marked differences in the optimum expression of human personality.

I pity you because maybe you think every woman has the same genetic makeup? You cannot appreciate the subtleties that evoke the great mystery, how their personalities gave to the selection process within their bodies, what emotions, what hormones, what proteins to manifest in each moment.

Well, you can say there are reports and recommendations that are indeed distasteful or questionable, found from the racial papers. I am indeed very leary about the descriptions and recommendations found here, for the same reasons as you. But do you agree or disagree with the theory, that "Genetics is the foundation for human intellectual capacity." I think that you have to apply justice to yourself, your own family. Start with a liberal goal and say every person who is reared in this household should have this right, to find a mate and raise a family. And the racial issue becomes not as important as the practical matters of a household, of parental wherewith. In the future, this kind of demonstration will become more important: loyalty and devotion. And if you asks me, that is what is required for evolution, and every race is evolving, and progress is what matters, not relative merit or endowment.

We need to sanctify that type of partnership, and I cannot assume that evolution prospers in an fatherless environment where mothers teach their sons how they like to be treated (after accepting the neglect of the partner, the faux ends of material sustenance, and "all that glam"), a pattern where sons think it is okay to abandon the house after life had begun.

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Here he claims what many others believe and say without evidence and which is also false so far as I know...but no challenge or correction by you? I thought the words and ideas of posters could be commented on and discussed? The fact of BB'S doubts and disbeliefs is obvious and confirmed by BB in this very thread!


Words and ideas, yes. And the best way to do that is to address the poster directly by asking questions and trying to discern what they really want to say. Maybe even try to find common ground. Talking about someone is not a good idea. Can you not see the difference here?

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BB asks above: "My question to you is if the science of the times rebuts a scientific claim in the UB then to whom or what do you defer your position, SEla_Kelly? Science or UB?"

This is a false choice. While the scientific method is applauded in the UB, its application primarily exposes false scientific theories. Your confidence in almost any modern scientific theory is misplaced. So, do you also believe in the Big Bang theory and the Darwinian missing link for single source/line of evolution???!!

Please post links to research proofs of any scientific claims that human ancestry is single gene sourced. By the way, modern humanity is racially amalgamated already according to the Papers so proof of amalgamation would support the UB but would not support the single source theory!!

While it may not be inerrant I still await your very first proof of any errors in the UB or conflicts with science that is not mere theory already objected to by the scientific method and conflicting scientific theories by others....despite years of trying and dozens of prior claims here.

:roll:

If only you actually would challenge your preconceptions and prejudices per your claim above....rather than merely repeat them...over and over and over again. Not critical thinking.


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