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''3) the issue of channeling was originally banned because channelers tried to use this forum to promote channeling (and this forum has nothing to do with channeling),''

Duh yeah .

Its ironic tho for thee other reasons tho eh

Unless thee Admin is amused by this channeling BS

Or you my Brother Gremlin Forget , thee channeling issue

Is not a f in joke , Its Not ,

Has or IS the policy regarding , the so TM / Teaching mission

And Channeling , CHANGED ?

ITs not a Joke nor funny to me ,

Many years ago when Thee so called the so TM / Teaching mission

And Channeling were discussed and it only lead to problems and
Issues , Here , The Admin at the time here allowed it ,
but it became a fubar .

Then it was stopped for good reasons ,

Has this policy/ rule Changed ?

IF So why talk about something

were not supposed to talk about ?

Or ... IF So I or Others Will .

Hot or Cold ?

Thee Blue or Red Pill ?


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No policy changes. It's not that the word "channeling" is inappropriate but promoting the activity as spiritually meaningful, especially in relationship to TUB, is still unacceptable.

Larry


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Hey coop....I took it as both a funny joke and a fair warning (vaporized...sufficient rope....etc.). The fact and nature of the response appears to show firm opposition to those who self proclaim the ability to speak to the gods and do so to or for other mortals. Wasn't around back in the day....but know the confusions and the turmoil created for those who come to believe that either the Papers or the UB student body and community lend any credibility to those who make such claims.

Truthseekers who discover the UB need to study the Papers - rigorously and redundantly - to appreciate their value and their meaning. It is impossible to truly have experience in the UB and cling so vigorously to such nonsense. Those who bring it up brand themselves as naïve newbies to this work about universal reality and the relationship of the all to the each and the each to the all (regardless of how long one claims to have a book - some questions clearly demonstrate a lack of reading - not a lack of agreement!). The UB should challenge priorities and motivation when embraced and no serious student would even consider taking messages from the gods from the mind and mouth of another tadpole! The "news" of the universe is of no concern to me or related in any way to the task clearly at hand - circle progress, soul growth, confidence in our cosmic citizenship in this friendly universe....plenty to keep this tadpole busy! I trust the Most Highs and Michael to manage the universe.

I know you do too coop!!

Hope Gremlin is enjoying Jamaica mon!! :wink: :biggrin:


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Your correct My Brother Bradly 8)

And i feel i need to apologize to our Brother Gremlin
for my misunderstanding .Sorry

Sometimes i speak before thinking ,,

SORRY


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''No policy changes. It's not that the word "channeling" is inappropriate but promoting the activity as spiritually meaningful, especially in relationship to TUB, is still unacceptable.

Larry''

Sincerly thank you Brother Larry 8)


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Okay...that's weird. Wrote the following in answer to a post by Big Al. Now it's gone. Oh well, think I'll stand pat:

Big Al wrote: I have surfed around the forum and read other similar debates. I see the same user names pop up again and again. I see the debates get more and more antagonistic and pointless as they go on. I have no desire to repeat that pattern here.

The Urantia Book will fall or stand on it's own merits. No need to feel so threatened. All you can do is gently encourage people to read it. They will make up their own minds."

fanofVan here: All sincere students - whether skeptical of not - are welcomed. But sincere students do not make declarative statements out of ignorance - they ask questions, especially so do they ask about the contents of the book being studied - or as someone here might have asked - was the UB channeled?, or what is channeling? or about a hundred other ways to inquire and discuss. Otherwise, it is not study by student....it is agenda to disrupt or deceive or declare. There is both arrogance and audacity, in addition to a lack of knowledge, in the very title of this topic.

Want to study something? Or ask something? Or post some text with which you disagree or seek further understanding? That's what a sincere student might do. And it's certainly not what you chose Big Al.

No one here requires any other to believe the claims of the UB's authors but the purpose of TruthBook is a study group for TruthBook students and readers. It's not a site provided for personal assertions unrelated to the contents of what we share here together.

You have asserted the UB was channeled. You have asserted it's just another "channeled work" and that, since the UB was channeled (a statement of fact not yet entered into any form of evidence) that any or all other claims by others of receiving channeled material make those claimants as true and offer as much authority as the UB, and that human-celestial contact is not only common but a teaching of the UB. You have dismissed the epochal nature of the book's claims and turned into something as common as every form of human fictional claims of "contact". Each and every assertion is false.

Pretending hurt feelings for failing to find endorsement for your false declarations is a rather ignoble response. I don't feel threatened. And you won't encourage many to read such a volume of information when they can get the same thing from any corner medium or palm reader or fortune teller.....so much easier. This site is primarily designed for newer readers being able to discourse with experienced students or experienced readers studying together but for sincere students anyway....which are you Al?

It's fine to be skeptical Al....but try framing it as skepticism or inquiry....this site already has an agenda....you appear to as well. So student? Or agenda?

8)


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I appreciate the heads up Al on the many prior discussions here, which can be found by searching for "channeled" in the Search button at the top of each page. Such a review shows this is not your first time to declare here that the UB is a channeled work and claimed that channeling is a common form of celestial contact.....so it is agenda then.

The UB teaches that each mind is capable of contact with our own soul and our personal Thought Adjuster (Father Fragment/Spirit) and the Mother Spirit and the Son Spirit and these work in harmony to Divinely minister to that mind and to all minds who hear, listen, and seek the spirit. We are also warned that such a material mind is endowed with the inherent capability of self delusion, ego arrogance or self importance, and self deception. Further, we are taught that whatever we thusly receive that is true, beautiful, and good is by personal/auto revelation that is to and for the ONE who receives such contact. So, that which comes from personal conscious or sub or super consciousness is personal and not TO or FOR another - this would be described as channeling or second hand "revelation" - and there is nothing to be found in the UB to substantiate any such claims.

There is a long history of such claims that pre-dates the UB clear back to the very beginnings of humanity...it is a common claim of personal power to communicate with gods, demi-gods, spirits, angels, dead mortals, aliens, etc. To equate epochal revelation with these very human claims belittles the Papers and the students of the Papers.

The Papers do offer confirmations that personal revelation is real and potentially very powerful in its ability to help the mind transcend its material limitations - the story of John's visions is but one example. It's also clear that the mortal mind is often confused in such a state by its lack of reference context and limits of experience in such a auto revelation to the one when that mind then attempts to describe the event/occurrence. Perhaps we should start a topic on auto/personal revelation to discuss the differences between personal, second hand, and epochal revelation (the Papers claim there is but personal and epochal)?

8)


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Hello, friends. I hope I'm not too late to jump in.

The confusion is arising between the OP and the TruthBook forum veterans based on the nature of the sleeping subject.

OP I see what you are asking, Here are the facts: (tl;dr at the end)

1) Prior to the formation of any of the text of The Urantia Book, the sleeping subject was discovered sleeptalking deep and compelling religio-philosophical insights.
2) The sleeping subject had no memory of anything he talked about in his sleep.
3) Dr. Sadler deduced that this was worthy of further study.

--Fast forward some interval of time--

4) The group called the "Revelatory Commission" found some way to engage the sleeping subject and established a form of communication with what they believed to be the personalities speaking through him.
5) After much communication this way, and after much deep reflection on part of both Dr. Sadler, Lena Sadler, and the commission (they were very very cautious, to their credit,) it was established that questions would be gathered and submitted on sheets of paper.
6) They would leave the sheets of paper in a drawer, and before re-convening, a Urantia Paper would be left in its place.
7) Dr. Sadler's testimony is that he deposited them in a safe-deposit box inside a bank vault and the responses to the questions were yet found even inside the vault, with a notice along these lines. "We can still do it this way, but it makes it harder for us when you leave them here."
8) The content of the original papers was transcribed onto new media and then the originals were burned.
9) The first three sections of The Urantia Book were established in this way, by leaving questions, finding the papers, transcribing them, then burning the originals.
10)There was some delay in the reception of the fourth section about Jesus, but eventually these were received too, in more or less like manner, transcribed and then burned.
11) The relationship between the sleeping subject and the appearance of the papers was not understood, even by the Commission.

12) As far as I can tell, no one really knows (outside of the reasons given in The Urantia Book itself, which are reasons only valid within the system it contains and presupposes,) why the sleeping subject was needed for the transmission of the papers themselves, since he did not write them with his hand or dictate them at all. It's only clear that the sleeping subject was needed to initiate and maintain conversance between the human operators on the condition, and the worldview which the human operators in the commission were engaging.

The Urantia Book says that certain personalities in certain epochs are specially equipped to transmit this celestial and super-factual data, and they are equipped precisely because they are disinterested in the phenomenon itself, and are well connected to their indwelling thought-adjusters. This isn't a satisfying reason from an empirical standpoint, but it's the only one The Urantia Book gives. The verdict is still out about the physical or super-physical relationship that the sleeping subject had with its operators to making papers appear out of thin air. (I would've loved to see the security tapes the night Bill's papers were switched out of his deposit box.)


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Thanks for that Redtread...well said.

While there are many who persist in this self proclaimed power of channeling (speaking to and for, as representative, celestials with "messages" for other mortals), there is a group of them organized around the purpose of updating, continuing, revising, and completing the Urantia Papers. They come here still to divide, confuse, confound, and disrupt this and other students and study groups by inserting insinuations, false claims, and the siren's call to personal power...looking for audience and converts among the student body. How do I know this? I have been directly recruited and ego-stroked as a suitable subject to be ordained a Reservist worthy to "receive and transmit" (or channel) with the celestial as a member in their group.

This started just a few months into my entrance here and at another UB forum, about 4 years ago. I was initially praised for my scholarship of the Papers and lauded, receiving PM's and emails from various members. Unfortunately, for them, I have a long experience with and knowledge of such self proclaimed Reservists who proclaim this power....so I was not confused as to the fallacy of channeling nor as to the agenda of conversion and recruitment to their cause. When that became apparent to them, suddenly I was taunted, ridiculed, blasted on the forums as a moron and idiot and "fundamentalist" who was irrelevant. Actually I became dangerous to them as I refused intimidation and embarrassment to be silenced.

I have a history here of disputing all who seek to complete, revise, distort, contort, contradict, or falsify the contents of the Papers by and through human mind by the false claims of power by such channelers. It would be appropriate to clarify that channeling is not "inspired" in its claims....to be inspired might be delusion but it is often, or can often be, what the UB calls personal or auto revelation...contact by mind with the ministering spirits of the Father, Mother, and Son. Such personal revelation is for the one who receives it and does then inspire that mind to write, paint, sculpt, or otherwise express this wondrous experience. Such is not channeling...which claims that one is in actual communication with specific gods and angels and celestials specifically to give "news" and updates and instructions and warnings, etc., etc.

So, these people and this group has an agenda to claim the Papers were channeled - as Big Al does so here - in order to justify and legitimize their own self proclaimed abilities to "channel" truth to other mortals. They feel called to recruit others to their cause of working to inform and save others in positions of self perceived importance. It is a dangerous flirtation with self love and self delusion.

I don't know Al's personal agenda...but it is obvious there is one at play here. TruthBook needs those students who have no such illusions or delusions to stand firm on this....the UB says what it says and doesn't say what it doesn't.

The Papers speak for themselves...eloquently, thoroughly, redundantly, precisely, and clearly. There simply is no such thing as channeling. If you speak to celestials, whatever is heard is for you alone....or it is but the mind at mischief. So we are taught.

8)


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fanofVan wrote:
TruthBook needs those students who have no such illusions or delusions to stand firm on this....the UB says what it says and doesn't say what it doesn't.

The Papers speak for themselves...eloquently, thoroughly, redundantly, precisely, and clearly. There simply is no such thing as channeling. If you speak to celestials, whatever is heard is for you alone....or it is but the mind at mischief. So we are taught.

8)
I agree wholeheartedly with you Brad. For those seekers who just found out about the Urantia Book, it's very unfortunate if they see all that is going on in this department you refer to in your above post.

The fact that the Urantia Papers "says what it says and doesn't say what it doesn't" can't be absorbed without reading and studying the book thoroughly. And that takes time. When you do this it will become abundantly clear that individuals who engage in this phenomenon of channeling are not understanding what the Revelation teaches, they either dismiss or don't realize what it says. However, it's very clear. In fact the Papers warn us about the tendency to be fanatical. A little bit of knowledge is dangerous it tells us.

I too have history with these people. In the 90's before the internet I attended meetings several times where certain individuals demon-strated the process of transmitting/receiving (channeling). The personal ego element was obvious, and still is when I visit certain websites and see what is being said about this "ability".

If anyone is new to the Urantia Book and visiting this Truthbook site now, please be aware that yes the book is voluminous and the thought of reading it in its entirety may be daunting but only by accomplishing a full reading of the Papers will you understand what we are referring to. Have faith.

The other thing that keeps coming up when new people discover the book is whether or not there's a Urantia Religion or cult. Since the appearance of the Urantia Book in 1955 there has not been established a Urantia Religion or cult. However instead, many have established a personal religion of spiritual experience based on the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of man as the Papers teach us to do.

For all the answers, that's right you have to read the book - entirely. Every single word of the text works together as an assuring knowing image. The Revelation may be Epochal for the world but it is personal for the individual first.

Liberation from confusion will greet you in the end.


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Redtread wrote:
OP I see what you are asking, Here are the facts: (tl;dr at the end)

1) Prior to the formation of any of the text of The Urantia Book, the sleeping subject was discovered sleeptalking deep and compelling religio-philosophical insights.
2) The sleeping subject had no memory of anything he talked about in his sleep.
3) Dr. Sadler deduced that this was worthy of further study.


These phenomena that preceded the papers would satisfy the definition of channeling. The sleeping subject's mind was allegedly not the source of the content of the communications, but his physical organs of speech were used for this purpose. Such communications continued for a long time before the papers were written.

The term "channeling" didn't exist until later in the 20th century. The term "mediumship" was generally reserved for alleged communication with discarnate dead people, i.e., ex-mortals. That term is more restricted in meaning than what "channeling" came to mean. Also, some alleged mediumship, then and now, involved the medium supposedly reporting messages from the dead, whereas channeling supposedly involves the discarnate personality "taking over" or somehow bypassing the mind of the channel. Some mediumship also had this form, but it's pretty much a defining characteristic of channeling. The thing that people like the Long Island Medium claim to be doing is not channeling. Channeling, as the term is commonly used, may involve communication with the dead, but just as often it refers to communication with other discarnate or supermortal personalities.

These terms aren't formally defined, so there's always a bit of variation in how they are used. Nevertheless, the twenty or so years of communication between the Contact Commission and various celestial personalities prior to the production of the papers would conform to pretty much anybody's definition of channeling.

So even if we accept that the Urantia papers themselves were not produced by channeling, there's no denying that channeling played an important role prior to, during, and even after the papers were written. Arguably, if the channeling phenomena hadn't occurred, there would have been no papers.

It's of course possible that only the UB-related channeling was genuine, and all others delusional or fake. Even if true, that would not show that the communications surrounding the appearance of the papers were not instances of channeling.

_________________
Todd


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So many attempts to pound the square peg into the round hole. Channeling is channeling. Channeling was not the process by which the Urantia revelation was received. This is a dead horse that continues to be beaten. If you're not trained in psychology then your opinion about subconscious mind activity is simply your opinion, not based in experience and probably not based in fact. Facts exist and they're more valuable than personal opinions.

If you're enthralled with psychic behavior, that's fine, but don't try to tie the reception of the Urantia revelation to human mind psychic activity. The two are different.

It took all of less than 5 minutes to find the following article on UBHistory.org...
http://ubhistory.org/Documents/AN195805 ... erW_27.pdf
These are historical facts. If nothing else, please read item 10 and give this topic a rest here.

Larry


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These may be of interest to all.

Written by Dr. Meredith Sprunger

The Origin of The Urantia Book

Years of experience reveal that the first thing people wish to know about The Urantia Book is who wrote it. What are the circumstances of its origin? It does little good to tell
them the book should be judged by its content, not by claims of authorship. Because of the conditioning of our culture, we are naturally inclined to depend on sources and authority when evaluating publications. Religious literature, in particular, is appraised in this way.

The authenticity of individuals, religious groups, or literature which claim revelatory authority is always open to question. Authority is never a philosophical criterion of truth. There are only two ways this question can be approached with credibility. First, a personal judgment can be made based on the quality of the material being evaluated. The other way revelatory authenticity is established is by the judgment of society over years of historical experience. Social tradition is an especially powerful influence. From a religious context, even when biblical scholars like Rudolf Bultmann declared that our reliable historical knowledge is so meager that “we can know almost nothing concerning the life and personality of Jesus,” few people are troubled by such statements. Our historical experience has socially validated the quality of the New Testament story of the life and teachings of Jesus. In the fields of science and philosophy similar historical experience add weight to the authenticity of source material.
There are, however, no established social traditions associated with The Urantia Book. It must be analyzed and evaluated on the quality of its content. Although they have little relevance in determining the quality of The Urantia Book, following are two sources of information regarding its origin.

The Authors’ Account

The first account of the origin of The Urantia Book lies within its own pages. We are told the papers were commissioned by high deity authorities and written by numerous supermortal personalities. These papers are designated as the Fifth Epochal Revelation to our planet, Urantia, as The Urantia Book.

The authors (revelators) acknowledge the difficulty of portraying the realities of eternity in the language of time. We are told several limitations were placed on the
knowledge they were permitted to share with us. They explain that all time-space revelation is partial and incomplete, needing to be periodically upstepped in the process of planetary development.

In general terms the authors discuss the problems they encountered communicating between their spiritual level of universe reality and our material level of mortal existence. They reveal that they made contact through the indwelling spirit of God of a particular human being in Chicago during the early part of the 20th century. We are assured, however, that this communication technique is not related to “spiritualism,” “mediumship,” or “channeling.” Specific details are not discussed.

The Human Story

The second source of information relating to the origin of The Urantia Book is my own human side of the story. Following my discovery of the book in December of 1955 and
after introducing it to some of my clerical friends, we spent years researching the human account of the origin of the book. The following information summarizes our findings.

We quickly discovered the papers were received by a small group of people in Chicago. Their leader was Dr. William S. Sadler. Dr. Sadler was a highly respected psychiatrist who taught at the Post-Graduate School of Medicine at Chicago University. For almost thirty years he was also a lecturer in Pastoral Counseling at McCormick Theological Seminary.

Dr. Sadler told me that in the mid 1920’s a group of people from all walks of life met at the Sadler residence to discuss psychological and medical topics. This group was known as the Forum. Through a series of events in this discussion group, communications were established between the revelators and members of the Forum. Much later, Forum members established Urantia Foundation in order to publish The Urantia Book..

Dr. Sadler candidly discussed any question we asked him, but he would not talk about two things: the name of the individual used by the high deity authorities to indict the
Urantia papers and the unique way in which the papers appeared. Dr. Sadler said they were asked to take vows of secrecy regarding these two subjects. When I asked why these restrictions were imposed upon them, he gave me the following reasons:

1. “The main reason for not revealing the identity of the contact personality is that the revelators do not want any human being— any human name—ever to be associated with The Urantia Book. They want this revelation to stand on its own declarations and teachings. They are determined that future generations shall have the book wholly free of all mortal connections—they do not want a St. Peter, St. Paul, Luther, Calvin, or Wesley.” The original printings of the book do not even bear the name or any mark of the printer who brought it into being.

2. “There is much about the appearance of the Urantia papers which no human being fully understands. No one really knows just how this phenomenon was executed.
There are numerous missing links in the story of how this revelation came to appear in written English. If anyone should tell all he really knows about this technique and the methods employed in getting this revelation, such a narration would satisfy no one, there are too many missing links.”

Our group of ministers discovered a possible reference to the individual somehow involved in the materialization of The Urantia Book. It is found in the appendix of Dr. Sadler’s book, The Mind at Mischief, published in 1929. He says, “Eighteen years of study and careful investigation have failed to reveal the psychic origin of these messages. I find myself at the present time just where I was when I started. Psychoanalysis, hypnotism, and intensive comparison fail to show that the written or spoken messages of this individual have origin in his own mind. Much of the material secured through this subject is quite contrary to his habit of thought, to the way in which he has been taught, and to his entire philosophy. In fact, of much that we have secured, we have failed to find anything of its nature in existence. Its philosophic content is quite new, and we are unable to find where very much of it has ever found human expression.” (p. 383)

During Dr. Sadler’s investigation of this phenomenon, he consulted men like Howard Thurston, the renowned slight-of-hand artist who devoted considerable time to exposing fraudulent mediums and psychics. He also conferred with Sir Hubert Wilkins, the noted scientist and arctic explorer involved in investigating psychic phenomena. They all agreed that the phenomena connected with this individual could not be classified with other types of psychic phenomena such as automatic writing, telepathy, clairvoyance, trances, spirit mediumship, channeling, or split personality.

On May 7, 1958 our group of ministers met with Dr. Sadler to discuss the origin of The Urantia Book. He gave us a paper listing every imaginable form of subconscious mind of psychic activity. At the bottom of the outline a note said: “The technique of the reception of The Urantia Book in English in no way parallels or impinges upon any of the above phenomena of the marginal consciousness.” He went on to tell us that so nearly as he could determine, the appearance of Urantia papers was associated with some form of superconscious mind activity. On numerous occasions Dr. Sadler told me that he did not know how the materialization was accomplished. He said that almost everything known about the origin of The Urantia Book is found in various places in the book.

In 1939 the revelators requested that the leaders of the Forum ask for volunteers who would meet each Wednesday evening to seriously and systematically study the Urantia papers. Seventy persons volunteered and they became known as “The Seventy.” The Seventy were trained by directives from the revelators and their own leaders up to the time of the publication of The Urantia Book. Special emphasis was placed on the evolutionary process involved in the acceptance of new truth. The danger of using broadcast, indiscriminate, or revolutionary methods in presenting the message of The Urantia Book was stressed.

In preparation for publication of The Urantia Book, Dr. Sadler and his son Bill Sadler wrote an introduction. At a contact session they were told that although they meant well, this was not acceptable—“a candle can hardly illuminate the sun.” At the proper time, they were assured, an introduction would be given. When they received the Foreword, Dr. Sadler observed that they full realized the inadequacy of their own introduction.

They were, however, given permission to compose a “table of contents” for the book. Bill Sadler compiled the titles, the section headings, and in some various parts of the book outlined some of the material, thus making up the “Table of Contents.” Dr. Sadler and other members of the Contact Commission assured me that no human being wrote any of the book. One individual, not a member of the Contact Commission, who made suggestions to “improve” one of the papers was vigorously informed that no human additions to the book would be allowed. Every precaution was made to publish the message of the text just as the revelators had given it.

After many years of study, they were given permission to publish the book. They were told that although many people would welcome this enlarged presentation of spiritual truth, the population as a whole was not ready for it. The Fifth Epochal Revelation was given as an evolutionary phenomenon which would slowly take root in our society. An early publication of the book was given, they explained, so that leaders and teachers could be trained and people of means could be found to fund translations into other languages. The cost of the first printing was $75,000. This money was raised by voluntary contributions from members of the Forum.

The Urantia Foundation was established as a nonprofit organization in 1950. The Urantia Book was published under international copyright October 12, 1955. The Urantia Brotherhood was organized in 1955 as an ecumenical fellowship for studying and disseminating the teachings of The Urantia Book. The name “Urantia Brotherhood”
was officially changed to “The Fellowship” (for readers of The Urantia Book) in 1991.

Judge by Content

The events associated with the origin of The Urantia Book have nothing to do with its verification of truth or spiritual quality. This you must judge by its contents and by the spiritual fruit it produces. The message of The Urantia Book has amazing self-authentication and historical-philosophical consistency. But, in the final analysis, your indwelling spirit of God is the ultimate reality which must evaluate its message.

By Dr. Meredith Sprunger Retired Minister, United Church of Christ 4/79 Revised 12/97; 11/2007


Appendix from the "The Mind at Mischief"

Sadler, William S., The Mind at Mischief, New York: Funk & Wagnalls Company, 1929. pp. 382-384

Editor's note: The following was written by Dr. William S. Sadler in 1929 as an Appendix to his book, "The Mind at Mischief." Dr Sadler is known to have been intimately involved in the process which resulted in the publication of The Urantia Book. It is the opinion of some individuals that the "sleeping subject" to which he refers in this Appendix, along with the phenomena associated with this person, is a description of the process by which the content of The Urantia Book came into the possession of Dr. Sadler and the contact commissioners.

In discussions of fraudulent mediums or self-deceived psychics, the reader of this book has several times encountered the statement that there were certain exceptions to the general indictments there made, and was referred to this appendix. It now becomes my duty to explain what I had in mind when those footnotes were inserted.
In the interests of scientific accuracy on the one hand, and of strict fairness on the other, it becomes necessary to explain that there are one or two exceptions to the general statement that all cases of psychic phenomena which have come under my observation have turned out to be those of auto-psychism. It is true that practically all the physical phenomena have proved to be fraudulent, while the psychic phenomena are almost invariably explainable by the laws of psychic projection, transference, reality shifting, etc. But many years ago I did meet one trance medium, a woman now deceased, whose visions, revelations, etc., were not tainted with spiritualism. As far as my knowledge extends, at no time did she claim to be under the influence of spirit guides or controls, or to communicate messages from the spirits of departed human beings. Her work was largely of a religious nature and consisted of elevated sayings and religious admonitions. I never had the privilege of making a thoroughgoing psychic analysis of this case, and am not in a position to express myself as to the extent to which her revelations originated in the subconscious realms of her own mind. I make mention of the case merely to record the fact that I have met one instance of psychic phenomena apparently of the trance order that was not in any way associated with spiritualism.

The other exception has to do with a rather peculiar case of psychic phenomena, one which I find myself unable to classify, and which I would like very much to narrate more fully; I cannot do so here, however, because of a promise which I feel under obligation to keep sacredly. In other words, I have promised not to publish this case during the lifetime of the individual. I hope sometime to secure a modification of that promise and be able to report this case more fully because of its interesting features. I was brought in contact with it, in the summer of 1911, and I have had it under my observation more or less ever since, having been present at probably 250 of the night sessions, many of which have been attended by a stenographer who made voluminous notes.
A thorough study of this case has convinced me that it is not one of ordinary trance. While the sleep seems to be quite of a natural order, it is very profound, and so far we have never been able to awaken the subject when in this state; but the body is never rigid, and the heart action is never modified, tho respiration is sometimes markedly interfered with. This man is utterly unconscious, wholly oblivious to what takes place, and unless told about it subsequently, never knows that he has been used as a sort of clearing house for the coming and going of alleged extra-planetary personalities. In fact, he is more or less indifferent to the whole proceeding, and shows a surprising lack of interest in these affairs as they occur from time to time.

In no way are these night visitations like the seances associated with spiritualism. At no time during the period of eighteen years' observation has there been a communication from any source that claimed to be the spirit of a deceased human being. The communications which have been written, or which we have had the opportunity to hear spoken, are made by a vast order of alleged beings who claim to come from other planets to visit this world, to stop here as student visitors for study and observation when they are en route from one universe to another or from one planet to another. These communications further arise in alleged spiritual beings who purport to have been assigned to this planet for duties of various sorts.

Eighteen years of study and careful investigation have failed to reveal the psychic origin of these messages. I find myself at the present time just where I was when I started. Psychoanalysis, hypnotism, intensive comparison, fail to show that the written or spoken messages of this individual have origin in his own mind. Much of the material secured through this subject is quite contrary to his habits of thought, to the way in which he has been taught, and to his entire philosophy. In fact, of much that we have secured, we have failed to find anything of its nature in existence. Its philosophic content is quite new, and we are unable to find where very much of it has ever found human expression.

Much as I would like to report details of this case, I am not in a position to do so at present. I can only say that I have found in these years of observation that all the information imparted through this source has proved to be consistent within itself. While there is considerable difference in the quality of the communications, this seems to be reasonably explained by a difference in state of development and order of the personalities making the communications. Its philosophy is consistent. It is essentially Christian, and is, on the whole, entirely harmonious with the known scientific facts and truths of this age. In fact, the case is so unusual and extraordinary that it establishes itself immediately, as far as my experience goes, in a class by itself, one which has thus far resisted all my efforts to prove it to be of auto-psychic origin. Our investigations are being continued and, as I have intimated, I hope some time in the near future to secure permission for the more complete reporting of the phenomena connected with this interesting case.


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lwatkins wrote:
Channeling was not the process by which the Urantia revelation was received.


Were you responding to my post? If so...I don't quite get your point. If not, sorry, my mistake.

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Hello Todd....did you use the link and go to Complaint #10? I tried but cannot reproduce it here.

Personally, it is my contention and the conclusion of all empirical evidence known to me that channeling does not and has never factually occurred anywhere at any time by any mortal. There certainly are many who claim such power to themselves and many of those have been published and found an eager audience. But publishing and audience "belief" in the claims does not substantiate in any way the accuracy of those claims.

And that's the rub here. To confuse the delivery of the UB with such falsehood logically results in the conclusion that the UB is also fraudulent in its claims. The UB is not true as an example of something else's fallacy nor is it false by the example of the invalidity of channeling. Your reasoning is as flawed as the presumptive acceptance of the claims of channelers, past and/or present/future.

The indifference of the sleeping subject and the non-participation of the material mind and body of the sleeping subject is a most unique claim bearing no similarities at all to the list of "psychic phenomena" provided by Dr. Sadler...who personally, and for decades, assumed the sleeping subject WAS engaged in such. But the eventual conclusion was that there were no similarities and no personal participation by the sleeper in either the oral or written exchanges which occurred.

But, again, the contents of the UB speaks for itself and no work ever published by any so-called channeler is comparable in depth and breadth and scope and magnitude in either subject matter or presentation. The UB was not channeled by any definition you might provide for channeling.....which does not happen. The mind is a very powerful instrument, fully capable of both delusion and charlatanisms of either innocent self deceit or the agenda of priest and thief by self love and self importance.

Of course, for those who must deny the claims of the authors (and I certainly did so for 2-3 full readings), one must reasonably account for its presence by some other, any other means and method than what we are told by the authors and those who attended the delivery and their "stories". I already knew channeling was a myth prior to reading the UB (I mean really - who with a brain believes in channeling?), which left me with pure human authorship which became increasingly ridiculous to hold onto as I read more and more and the wholeness and holistic fabric become woven by the threads of each word and each page.

In the end it hardly matters what any of us believe "about" the book, for its only value lies within the adoption of perspective and message which in its essence is but the same as the Gospel OF Jesus....we are the children of a loving and paternal creator in the family of creation, born in time with an eternal adventure ahead if we are led by the Spirit into love and service to the family of ALL.

8)


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