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1) Why isn't the Urantia Book considered a channeled work?
My understanding is that the Urantia Book was written by celestial beings (angels). However, they didn't physically write it and drop it off on William Sadler's doorstep. It was transmitted through a human being. You can say that the celestial beings worked through the Thought Adjuster of this particular human if you would like. That doesn't change the fact that a non-human intelligence provided information through a human instrument. That's channeling by my definition.

2) Why are some Urantia followers so disparaging of other channeled works?

I understand if you think the Urantia Book is the most accurate revelation humans have received in this time period, that it provides a complete framework for you and you simply don't need anything else. You have found your Truth and it works for you. I get that. I understand if you find the Urantia Book more trust worthy. I get that. What I don't understand is the complete dismissal of all other channeled material as works of imagination, fraud, self-delusion, or mental unstability. The universe is a vast, populated place full of physical and non-physical beings. Is it so difficult to believe that some of these non-human intelligences contact humans from time to time. Is it so difficult to believe that some of these contacts may be for beneficial purposes?

In short, if non-human intelligence could have contacted humans to communicate the Urantia Book, then it is only logical that they could communicate other material at other times and at other places.


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The UB acknowledges two forms of revelation: personal/auto revelations - described as only the contact with the TA within or the Son's or Mother's Spirit and none of those can be identified one from another; there is no provision for contact with Midwayers, angels, dead mortals, or others; epochal revelation - described as being non-personal but planetary/epochal for all people, at least eventually as it is dispersed over time...The Urantia Papers claim to be the 5th given to us. Not a common event.

What you describe is either personal or second-hand, meaning to the one mind for other minds. This is NOT the teaching we study here. Your lack of knowledge as to how the UB was given and received may bring confusion and this is understandable but the Papers were delivered in written form. No human spoke or wrote the contents. The source of the Papers is irrelevant considering their contents which speak for themselves. Believe whatever you will. I have met many a channeler before and after finding the UB. Nothing of interest or import or value that I have discerned myself....either self delusion or intentional charlatanism.

The rules are given and for good reason...please consider:

The following Urantia movement-related controversies are banned from discussion in any of the forums (overt or covert):
* The Teaching Mission / Channeling. (We have no issue with people who believe they are communicating with non-human entities, or spiritual beings, or even with themselves. But this is not the forum for people to discuss those presumed communications.)
* The Copyright.
* Individual people that read The Urantia Book that do not please you.
* Urantia Book organizations that do not please you.

There is a simple reason that we do not allow these topics at all: They are divisive. These topics have been shown to disrupt and disable Urantia Book forums. If you want to discuss the above forbidden topics, please do so on another forum or with one another by way of email or Private Messages (PM). Then â€" once you have vented your spleen â€" come back here. Seriously, we are just not interested.

8)


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BigAl,

Thank you for the post. I can tell you are sincere and desire to really figure out why others hold the attitudes that they do.

I'd love to answer your questions, but the truth is I need to get back to you on them. I'm still not sure if the discussion they engender is permitted by the forum rules. Believe it or not, I've anticipated you asking these questions since the beginning of this week and have put some thought into a more "ideal" response. I saw some responses to your post in the General forum, and while I do not intend to disparage my friends here, I felt they were a bit over the top. You are only on your own search and in my mind these are very legitimate questions for someone in your position.

What happens is.. well, the questions you have touch on a topic that comes up very, very frequently here. I've seen patterns of back and forth that recycle the same old same old. I guess I am holding out hope that we can find a way to break the cycle when engaging others, especially newer folks to this forum. They end up being divisive, and distract us from the main purpose of this forum: to study the teachings of The Urantia Book. All other issues, including topics about The Urantia Book and its origin, are distractions to the primary purpose of this place.

If you want to get some insight into others opinions, try searching for the word "channel" here on this forum and see what threads that digs up... You'll see what I mean...

I assure you, what is contained in the book, with a full reading, is far, far more interesting to talk about than a sequence of events in Chicago in the early 20th century. But you have to read the whole thing to see what I mean.


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If I can't discuss this in the Skeptic's section, where can I discuss it?

I have never seen anything that said the Urantia Book was delivered in written from. This is news to me and also in contradiction to information I have researched elsewhere. The specifics aren't important. We don't need to discuss them here. The larger point is if there was contact once, there could be contact again.

quil - thank you for your kind words. Yes, I did find some of the responses to my post earlier this week disappointing. The funny thing is what I was writing about wasn't critical of the Urantia Book. It was actually supportive. I wish there could have been more constructive discussion over there. I don't mean to be divisive but I think it's healthy to keep an open mind.


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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3582

* The Teaching Mission / Channeling. (We have no issue with people who believe they are communicating with non-human entities, or spiritual beings, or even with themselves. But this is not the forum for people to discuss those presumed communications.)
* The Copyright.
* Individual people that read The Urantia Book that do not please you.
* Urantia Book organizations that do not please you.


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Before making assumed factual statements about the reception of the revelation and how it's like other channeled material it would be wise to spend some time at the Urantia Book Historical Society website -- ubhistory.org -- to become familiar with what the facts are. There is an abundance of speculation in the Urantia movement that's not supported by the historical letters, legal documents, personal stories and so forth that do provide factual context for the history of the revelation.

Also, it would be beneficial to understand the psychological methods and motivations for channeling. Yes, it's a real phenomenon; no it's not communication with spirit beings or other outside intelligences.

Larry


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Okay. Let's assume the Urantia Book is a unique work completely different from all other communications. Easy enough.

A hypothetical for you: The UB was published in 1955. It is now 60 years later. The circumstances in the universe have changed and the celestials want to provide us updated information. The original group of people isn't around anymore. What would happen if those exact same celestials tried to provide new information in the exact same way?

How would you feel about it? Would you trust it? What criteria would you use?


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An epochal revelation is relevant for thousands of years or more -- the spiritual aspects of TUB has not changed so far as human life on this world is concerned. "Celestials" don't want to give us more information -- they have other things to do with their time.

Channeling is a subconscious human mind activity disconnected from reality; it's not a "celestial" communication tool. It would be beneficial to understand the psychological methods and motivations of channeling. It would also be beneficial to spend at least as much time understanding the origin of TUB as in attributing its inception to spurious human mind activity.

Larry


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Greetings Big Al !!!

I recommend a re-read of Paper 52 - Planetary Mortal Epochs - to better appreciate the term Epochal Revelation and the importance, rarity, and timing of these periodic planetary ministries. The Urantia Book is not a newspaper or magazine which is soon outdated and needing refreshing, or not until the full value of such epochal revelation has had sufficient time for its full effect - which, the book says, will take a thousand years or more for this gift of knowledge and truth, while the prior revelation has lasted 2000 years and each epochal revelation prior remains profoundly influential through each successive prior and future revelation - the gift of the Son's Spirit of Truth, by example, remains fully functional.

The Papers provide significant information to guide the individual believer and the kingdom/family of believers toward our planetary destiny from this intersection of time and progress already achieved through many epochal and evolutionary transitions and struggles which we face today and will experience over much time yet to come. The spiritualization of the each is the principal business of the Papers while providing us with the perspective of source and destiny and process....and TIME, to inspire and propel the each into greater appreciation for love, service, truth, beauty, and goodness. The epochal, evolutionary and revelationary process for planetary upliftment ministry takes thousands upon thousands of generations of mortals. 100 years of time is a brief time within such a context considering some last tens or even hundreds of thousands of years for their full fruition before the next Mortal Epoch brings another epochal revelation.

Or this is what the UB says for itself. Whether one believes what the Papers say is a different matter of course. While human curiosity drives some to extremes of effort to know about the work and activities of the angels and Most Highs, in many regards this demonstrates an unhealthy impatience to see more change more quickly and more certainly within our brief mortal life on this world of our birth. We are taught that such progress or change can come far more quickly for the individual than for a world of individuals engaged in the evolutionary and revelatory mortal epoch cycles.

Those who claim to or aspire to communications with celestials have been around since the first witch doctor/priest. They pretend to bring "news" and/or information from the spirit world TO others. Today's claimants have no more power or truth in their claims than their many predecessors and offer nothing of value from their very human mind and its limitations for the individual believer or truth seeker.

The differences are immense.

8)


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Maybe im wrong

But Imo

Isnt It Ironic and Weird , strange ...

To talk about something that NOT Supposed to even be discussed ?

The Reasons WHY Have been explained ,

...


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http://ubhistory.org/


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Hey coop!! I too am surprised this topic has not already been removed...or locked at least. My last response was to answer a direct question as to the difference between the endless claims of mediums over the eons and the Papers we study here. I find it incredible that thinking people cannot see through the farce of mediumship and the delusional and/or deceptive parlor tricks. Does one just believe in this nonsense? Can one who truly studies the long history and illustrious charlatanisms associated with self proclaimed oracles, spiritualists, mediums, fortune tellers, astrologers, palm readers, etc., give this credibility for their own personal religious experience and growth? No other mortal may offer any other mortal universal truth or facts or "news" and updates on the state of cosmology. Good grief!

What serious truth seekers does not know better than this? Perplexing.

8)


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Amen

Brother i agree

Thanks for your wisdom .


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Since the moderators appear willing to allow this thread to stand for further scrutiny, I suggest that anyone who believes in the claims of medium-ship, or are otherwise attracted to this age old form of charlatanism, that the subject actually be investigated....no matter who makes the claim or what they say about their "abilities" or the news or personal information they may offer the gullible truthseeker. Below are links to wiki which provide an interesting history, right up to today, of the styles and claims made over the prior centuries....and before.

This is an ancient claim and has nothing at all to do with the Urantia Papers....those who claim this power and hold up the UB as their inspiration merely demonstrate another flavor of the mind at mischief....and directly contradict the UB thereby.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediumship

A study of Harry Houdini's life and his sincere search for a viable medium (to speak to his dearly departed mother), resulting in a large cash reward for any successful demonstration of such powers in the early 20th century is an interesting tale....a fervent believer turned into skeptic turned into debunking crusader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Houdini

And for those who seek "spirit" guidance but don't want to do the personal work of soul growth and the thinking required for enlightening, I suggest the Ouija board as just as reliable and credible a mechanism for speaking to the gods, angels, spirits, and the dearly departed...and it is so much handier. :lol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija

:roll: 8)


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There are 2 possible reasons this thread has not been vaporised:
2) We are amused. In the same way scientist is amused at microbes wriggling on a petri dish, or
3) the issue of channeling was originally banned because channelers tried to use this forum to promote channeling (and this forum has nothing to do with channeling), or
5) we subscribe to the "give them enough rope" school of management, and we are waiting......, or
7) it's Winter, and we're on holiday in Jamaica, or
11) is this Colorado?
13) The original 13 states forming the "United States of America" were established by the Articles of Confederation, ratified on March 1, 1781
17) is the atomic number of Chlorine
19) = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRJFvtvTGEk


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