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To all who would call me The Devil,

I do not want your apologies,

I do not want your explanations,

I do not want your quotes,

I do not even require your understanding;


I WANT YOUR JUSTICE.


Give me your justice and I will promptly return it to God, no questions asked. This is brotherly forgiveness.

My dear brother Gabriel, I beg you to please give God your justice before it blows up in your face and destroys you. A universe awaits your decision on this.


Can any of you READ THE SIGNS OF THE TIMES?. NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!

It is a fair exchange. "Vengeance is mine", said the Lord. Give God your justice and He will give you His peace. God forgives before you ask it of Him.


For those with eyes to see.


Regards, Your Brother Louis


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Louis wrote:
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My dear brother Gabriel, I beg you to please give God your justice before it blows up in your face and destroys you. A universe awaits your decision on this.


Hi Louis,
I don't understand what you are saying here. Are you praying to Gabriel? or assaulting his character?


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Louis – To be completely honest, I have never seen one single post of you on this forum that made sense. Not a single one of your oftentimes lengthy and boring arguments and theories ever contributed anything useful. Instead, you consistently disrupt otherwise good and thoughtful discussions with your particular brand of nonsense. If questions are asked, you reply with more nonsense, et cetera. So, those who are familiar with you mostly ignore you, which is usually sufficient to make a troll go away. But apparently not in your case. You have now hijacked every active discussion here and while still largely ignored, you manage to produce a continuous stream of nonsensical posts with ridiculous claims, insults, and insinuations bordering on insanity.

This is my final message to you and I will not reply to any more of your posts no matter how malicious they get. I think it’s up to the admins to put an end to this. IMO, allowing you to continue posting here is not in the interest of Truthbook, to put it mildly. And frankly, brother Louis, I think you need professional help..


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YSMAEL wrote:
Louis wrote:
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My dear brother Gabriel, I beg you to please give God your justice before it blows up in your face and destroys you. A universe awaits your decision on this.


Hi Louis,
I don't understand what you are saying here. Are you praying to Gabriel? or assaulting his character?


The answer is NEITHER.

Does God love Gabriel more than He loves me? Render unto God what is God's. Vengeance belongs to God. Would God give his son a loaded weapon to point at his brothers? I am asking my brother to give Father what he has taken upon himself before he hurts himself or me. Vengeance is a danger to me and to him. I certainly can ask a brother to put away the gun till Father gets home. The Master warned ALL of his children not to judge.

Regards, Louis


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Bart wrote:
Louis – To be completely honest, I have never seen one single post of you on this forum that made sense. Not a single one of your oftentimes lengthy and boring arguments and theories ever contributed anything useful. Instead, you consistently disrupt otherwise good and thoughtful discussions with your particular brand of nonsense. If questions are asked, you reply with more nonsense, et cetera. So, those who are familiar with you mostly ignore you, which is usually sufficient to make a troll go away. But apparently not in your case. You have now hijacked every active discussion here and while still largely ignored, you manage to produce a continuous stream of nonsensical posts with ridiculous claims, insults, and insinuations bordering on insanity.

This is my final message to you and I will not reply to any more of your posts no matter how malicious they get. I think it’s up to the admins to put an end to this. IMO, allowing you to continue posting here is not in the interest of Truthbook, to put it mildly. And frankly, brother Louis, I think you need professional help..


You are never completely honest Bart. If you were honest at all I would strive with you but you are not. It's better that it ends this way between us. At least I think IMS is honest in his beliefs and that is why I continue to communicate with him. He has a chance to change.


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Louis posted: "My dear brother Gabriel, I beg you to please give God your justice before it blows up in your face and destroys you. A universe awaits your decision on this."

loucol wrote:
Bart wrote:
Louis – To be completely honest, I have never seen one single post of you on this forum that made sense. Not a single one of your oftentimes lengthy and boring arguments and theories ever contributed anything useful. Instead, you consistently disrupt otherwise good and thoughtful discussions with your particular brand of nonsense. If questions are asked, you reply with more nonsense, et cetera. So, those who are familiar with you mostly ignore you, which is usually sufficient to make a troll go away. But apparently not in your case. You have now hijacked every active discussion here and while still largely ignored, you manage to produce a continuous stream of nonsensical posts with ridiculous claims, insults, and insinuations bordering on insanity.

This is my final message to you and I will not reply to any more of your posts no matter how malicious they get. I think it’s up to the admins to put an end to this. IMO, allowing you to continue posting here is not in the interest of Truthbook, to put it mildly. And frankly, brother Louis, I think you need professional help..


You are never completely honest Bart. If you were honest at all I would strive with you but you are not. It's better that it ends this way between us. At least I think IMS is honest in his beliefs and that is why I continue to communicate with him. He has a chance to change.


And yet you persist in judging all and everyone....including Gabriel and local universe administration and that of the super universes too and God's control of all creation and the results of the rule of love and law, mercy and justice. Your warped and belittling words are unworthy of you...or the you I've known for years now. What's happened to you Louis? Some personal tragedy or diagnosis? This site attracts many new readers and I find your example unworthy of their need and opportunity here. You are not in charge of changing others, IMS or Ya'akov or Patrick or Eric or anyone else for that matter.

And you don't speak for a universe as you claim above. Your opinion of Gabriel is certainly not founded upon ANY text in the Revelation and your judgmental smirkiness is outlandish. I'll not be joining Bart on this one as I will continue to refute such nonsense by the words in the gift we call the Urantia Book. I find it speaks quite well for itself and provides ample contrast to your concerns about the unfairness meted out to the rebels and the risk of Brother Gabe's behavior and decisions. Your fears are apparent to all as misplaced as they may be:

4. Gabriel — The Chief Executive

(369.4) 33:4.1 The Bright and Morning Star is the personalization of the first concept of identity and ideal of personality conceived by the Creator Son and the local universe manifestation of the Infinite Spirit. Going back to the early days of the local universe, before the union of the Creator Son and the Mother Spirit in the bonds of creative association, back to the times before the beginning of the creation of their versatile family of sons and daughters, the first conjoint act of this early and free association of these two divine persons results in the creation of the highest spirit personality of the Son and the Spirit, the Bright and Morning Star.

(369.5) 33:4.2 Only one such being of wisdom and majesty is brought forth in each local universe. The Universal Father and the Eternal Son can, in fact do, create an unlimited number of Sons in divinity equal to themselves; but such Sons, in union with the Daughters of the Infinite Spirit, can create only one Bright and Morning Star in each universe, a being like themselves and partaking freely of their combined natures but not of their creative prerogatives. Gabriel of Salvington is like the Universe Son in divinity of nature though considerably limited in the attributes of Deity.

(369.6) 33:4.3 This first-born of the parents of a new universe is a unique personality possessing many wonderful traits not visibly present in either ancestor, a being of unprecedented versatility and unimagined brilliance. This supernal personality embraces the divine will of the Son combined with the creative imagination of the Spirit. The thoughts and acts of the Bright and Morning Star will ever be fully representative of both the Creator Son and the Creative Spirit. Such a being is also capable of a broad understanding of, and sympathetic contact with, both the spiritual seraphic hosts and the material evolutionary will creatures.

7. The Courts of Nebadon

(372.5) 33:7.1 The Master Son, Michael, is supremely concerned with but three things: creation, sustenance, and ministry. He does not personally participate in the judicial work of the universe. Creators never sit in judgment on their creatures; that is the exclusive function of creatures of high training and actual creature experience.

(372.6) 33:7.2 The entire judicial mechanism of Nebadon is under the supervision of Gabriel. The high courts, located on Salvington, are occupied with problems of general universe import and with the appellate cases coming up from the system tribunals. There are seventy branches of these universe courts, and they function in seven divisions of ten sections each. In all matters of adjudication there presides a dual magistracy consisting of one judge of perfection antecedents and one magistrate of ascendant experience.

(372.7) 33:7.3 As regards jurisdiction, the local universe courts are limited in the following matters:

(372.8) 33:7.4 1. The administration of the local universe is concerned with creation, evolution, maintenance, and ministry. The universe tribunals are, therefore, denied the right to pass upon those cases involving the question of eternal life and death. This has no reference to natural death as it obtains on Urantia, but if the question of the right of continued existence, life eternal, comes up for adjudication, it must be referred to the tribunals of Orvonton, and if decided adversely to the individual, all sentences of extinction are carried out upon the orders, and through the agencies, of the rulers of the supergovernment.

(372.9) 33:7.5 2. The default or defection of any of the Local Universe Sons of God which jeopardizes their status and authority as Sons is never adjudicated in the tribunals of a Son; such a misunderstanding would be immediately carried to the superuniverse courts.

(372.10) 33:7.6 3. The question of the readmission of any constituent part of a local universe — such as a local system — to the fellowship of full spiritual status in the local creation subsequent to spiritual isolation must be concurred in by the high assembly of the superuniverse.

(373.1) 33:7.7 In all other matters the courts of Salvington are final and supreme. There is no appeal and no escape from their decisions and decrees.

(373.2) 33:7.8 However unfairly human contentions may sometimes appear to be adjudicated on Urantia, in the universe justice and divine equity do prevail. You are living in a well-ordered universe, and sooner or later you may depend upon being dealt with justly, even mercifully.

Louis, I find your mistrust of Gabriel's position and authority and integrity and intentions quite insane. You sow only seeds of doubt and confusion by such false claims and concerns....especially so to newer readers. Get a grip. :-$ :-# :roll:

8)


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Brother Louis 8)


Your personal Ego and pride may Be your fall from grace

Pride before the Fall !


Luke 4;23 ... ''Physician, heal yourself.’


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Hi coop,

It would be more helpful to me if you could point out examples of my egoism and pridefulness. This would go a long way in helping me to heal.

Regards, Louis


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Hi Bradly,

fanofVan wrote:
And yet you persist in judging all and everyone....including Gabriel and local universe administration and that of the super universes too and God's control of all creation and the results of the rule of love and law, mercy and justice. Your warped and belittling words are unworthy of you...or the you I've known for years now. What's happened to you Louis? Some personal tragedy or diagnosis? This site attracts many new readers and I find your example unworthy of their need and opportunity here. You are not in charge of changing others, IMS or Ya'akov or Patrick or Eric or anyone else for that matter.


Can you show me specific examples and quote me as to the judgments I have made on this blog. This would go a long way in helping me. You are correct that I am not in charge of changing others so please call me on those points specifically. I did not take it upon myself to try and change IMS, I only stated that he has a chance to change but that it was up to him. I attempted to show him in his own words what he was doing but it failed and I failed him. I will stop with him. But realized Bradly that you referred to my warped and belittling words. My words cannot do this you claim because words are symbols. Only me as a person can do this and all that you see here are my words. My question to you is are you changing or trying to change anyone here by you litany of quotes from TUB? It would be fine if what you attracted here was many new readers but I am very afraid that this site is attracting UB worshippers. There is a great danger of this happening.


fanofVan wrote:
And you don't speak for a universe as you claim above. Your opinion of Gabriel is certainly not founded upon ANY text in the Revelation and your judgmental smirkiness is outlandish. I'll not be joining Bart on this one as I will continue to refute such nonsense by the words in the gift we call the Urantia Book. I find it speaks quite well for itself and provides ample contrast to your concerns about the unfairness meted out to the rebels and the risk of Brother Gabe's behavior and decisions. Your fears are apparent to all as misplaced as they may be:


I speak only for myself Bradly. What opinion of Gabriel that I hold are you referring to? That he is my brother. That he at war with his brothers. What exactly are you referring to when you speck of "judgmental smirkiness"? And Bradly, TUB really cannot speak for itself because it cannot bear witness. You would make the book a person? Only God can bestow personality. When you presume to bestow personality you have made a "Golden Calf"!

Your idolatry is revealed in your own words, Bradly. I have already revealed your hypocrisies from your own words. You have judged yourself because you have made judgements and used an idol to point to as your judge advocate. But this judge is not a person. This judge is not even a personal God. You cannot use quotes from ink on a paper to prove my sins. Do you know what you are doing?


fanofVan wrote:
Louis, I find your mistrust of Gabriel's position and authority and integrity and intentions quite insane. You sow only seeds of doubt and confusion by such false claims and concerns....especially so to newer readers. Get a grip.


Where exactly in quotes of mine do you find that I mistrust Gabriel that would point to my insanity? You owe me an an answer to this question. You accuse me of doing what Lucifer has been accused of. Point to evidence that you have not made an idol of. Stop quoting TUB and start quoting me, a real person. What happened to me was the realization that I was being judged by you making use of a book that you idolize as evidence of your claims. You cannot get away with that.

Regards, Louis


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I must agree that you admonishing and warning the Bright and Morning Star of Nebadon to save himself from the wrath of God and his destruction is egoistic, judgmental, and more than a little crazy. Saying a whole universe awaits his contrition and repentance displays a self importance I simply cannot imagine. Your words speak only for you Louis...only for you.

You may disclaim your words as meaningless and not representative of you but I wonder, who then wrote them? What mind articulated them and typed them for this audience to read? Words are symbols, agreed....symbols that represent, reveal, and expresses the one who writes them. I will not relist every insult and name and accusation you have made directly and quite personally on this and many other topics lately. To what point? I can read them, you can read them, we all can read them and they are archived for further discovery and review by those to come.

I cannot understand the very real and recent change in your demeanor here. You claim you will no longer tolerate hypocrites and have called me such, more than once, in BOLD. You do not recall this? You need it listed? Others have suffered worse however. A hypocrite is one who is insincere and whose life, words, and heart are not aligned...a despicable character flaw. You know this of me? I am also a herding fetishizer evidently whose soul is in jeopardy. Do you recall these words? Do you remember saying Lucifer cannot receive fairness due to celestial bias including hate and anger in heaven and condemnation by hearsay and false/bias testimony? No? Or the claim that it was my intention to have you murdered by the Ancients by making false accusations against you (as it is so with Lucifer as you say)? And, as I said, I hardly begin to list the extent of your judgmental claims.

Why would you ask to rehash all this? I quote text because it is a textbook we share here and I quote text when others make false claims about its contents or meanings or to explore and discuss topics that interest and perplex me. Somehow that is bad form to you. This book is not my religion nor my fetish or relic or crutch. But it is a book of truths and, to me, a gift of Truth and a map and lamp to this truthseeker. And I will remain glad to share its contents for so long as another finds it compelling, engaging, helpful, and filled with important truths that brings us together to talk about the Master, our universe, our source, our destiny, and the pilgrim's path homeward. And I will also provide that text which contradicts false claims and fears posted about it's contents. I'll be doing that with you or without you Louis. I wish you well and hope for the best for you in all ways, temporal and eternal. Here's hoping for better days ahead for you and for us all.

Brad 8)


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Hi Bradly,

fanofVan wrote:
I must agree that you admonishing and warning the Bright and Morning Star of Nebadon to save himself from the wrath of God and his destruction is egoistic, judgmental, and more than a little crazy. Saying a whole universe awaits his contrition and repentance displays a self importance I simply cannot imagine. Your words speak only for you Louis...only for you.


When Michael on bestowal on Urantia was quoted saying, "judge not lest ye be judged", who was he addressing? I suggest that it was those in his immediate vicinity and the rest of his children in Nebadon, including Gabriel. Jesus did not write this down on paper and he did not command anyone else to do so either. He knew that Gabriel was mounting his case against Lucifer and the rebels and Michael himself was admonishing and warning his first born to be careful that he not judge. A whole universe does await the case of Gabriel vs Lucifer and Gabriel has been cautioned against any tendency for prosecutorial malfeasance. Our brother's actions affects us all.


fanofVan wrote:
You may disclaim your words as meaningless and not representative of you but I wonder, who then wrote them? What mind articulated them and typed them for this audience to read? Words are symbols, agreed....symbols that represent, reveal, and expresses the one who writes them. I will not relist every insult and name and accusation you have made directly and quite personally on this and many other topics lately. To what point? I can read them, you can read them, we all can read them and they are archived for further discovery and review by those to come.


Just quote my words Bradly, instead of just referring to them. You cannot help me heal until you throw my own words, in quotes, back in my face. Please, just quote me. Apparently you don't care if I heal.


fanofVan wrote:
I cannot understand the very real and recent change in your demeanor here. You claim you will no longer tolerate hypocrites and have called me such, more than once, in BOLD. You do not recall this? You need it listed? Others have suffered worse however. A hypocrite is one who is insincere and whose life, words, and heart are not aligned...a despicable character flaw. You know this of me? I am also a herding fetishizer evidently whose soul is in jeopardy. Do you recall these words? Do you remember saying Lucifer cannot receive fairness due to celestial bias including hate and anger in heaven and condemnation by hearsay and false/bias testimony? No? Or the claim that it was my intention to have you murdered by the Ancients by making false accusations against you (as it is so with Lucifer as you say)? And, as I said, I hardly begin to list the extent of your judgmental claims.


A hypocrite is a person who pretends to have virtues but whose action belie such beliefs. This is you to the core, Bradly. You pretend to have the best intention and be particularly humble (tadpole) while you refuse to attribute people's words accurately by directly quoting them. You misrepresent me to others in this way. You bare false witness. I do not know your intentions but I do know what you do here. You keep paraphrasing me but you never quote me. Why in hell do I type my word thoughts on this record if not to be quoted accurately? Only to be paraphrased? I think that you would have me murdered if you had the power. Do you not hate me? I cannot even trust you to answer this question honestly because you have shown yourself to be a hypocrite. Quote me on my judgmental claims if you can or if you will.


fanofVan wrote:
Why would you ask to rehash all this? I quote text because it is a textbook we share here and I quote text when others make false claims about its contents or meanings or to explore and discuss topics that interest and perplex me. Somehow that is bad form to you. This book is not my religion nor my fetish or relic or crutch. But it is a book of truths and, to me, a gift of Truth and a map and lamp to this truthseeker. And I will remain glad to share its contents for so long as another finds it compelling, engaging, helpful, and filled with important truths that brings us together to talk about the Master, our universe, our source, our destiny, and the pilgrim's path homeward. And I will also provide that text which contradicts false claims and fears posted about it's contents. I'll be doing that with you or without you Louis. I wish you well and hope for the best for you in all ways, temporal and eternal. Here's hoping for better days ahead for you and for us all.



I demand that you rehash all this in direct quotes from me because that would be the honest and honorable thing to do. You quote the text with quite facility because it is easy to point to your GOLDEN CALF to browbeat and judge those you believe to make false claims. A search engine is your tool. The golden calf cannot bear witness to itself because it cannot be questioned. So it is with TUB. It cannot be questioned.

You dare to use your golden calf (an idol) to refute a brother (a person) who has the Infinity of Father as a part of their minds! HYPOCRITE!

I absolutely refuse to do this with you! I ask God to forgive me for the times I had followed the herd in this. I do not know whether to trust you when you wish me well. You have refused to treat me well by refusing to quote me directly. If you don't treat me well how can you wish me well? HYPOCRITE!

Louis


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Louis, I have caused enough trouble here for you and I both I think. I withdraw from our "discussion" and have lost all will for it.

My apologies to the community here at truthbook for my blunders in self management and violations of those rules which are intended to create and foster a peaceful community and study group for the Urantia Book. I obviously have much yet to learn about peace keeping and peace making and how to respond in the spirit of fellowship when confronted by that which I do not understand, disagree with, or somehow feel threatened or insulted by. I have personalized that which should not be and responded most unwisely to something I should have discerned a far better way to illuminate truth, beauty, and goodness. This fault is my own. The example I have presented is how NOT to respond and converse and study and progress in spirit.

The Master turned every situation and encounter, no matter how unjust or unrighteous to him or how complex and difficult, into a teaching moment and by his example I remain a blind dolt and rank amateur to be sure. My failure has led to inciting and inflaming and hurt feelings and adds nothing to the actual purpose of this wonderful place for students to gather....I have assisted in the creation of a side show in a circus and by that I diminish the reality and the potential. I hope to learn better how to participate, engage, respond, and contribute to the study of truthbook by this disaster I have created here.

It is true that the book we study is a book. Is it a book only? I don't think so. But it is not a relic or idol and it is by its contents that we may each learn to discern and integrate truth for use in our daily walk and pilgrim's trek. I hope my failures do not cause another to stumble and judge the book by my own clumsiness. My status claim as a tadpole is no false humility I know, and I have well demonstrated its validity here lately. Peace.

As to the purpose of this place created and maintained by so many for so long with such dedication and compassion, I quote the guidelines for truthbook:

"Truthbook.com was created as a showcase for the teachings of The Urantia Book with an emphasis on Part IV, The Life and Teachings of Jesus.

This discussion board, as an extension of the Truthbook.com website, has one primary goal:
To be a safe place where newcomers to The Urantia Book can ask questions and explore the teachings of The Urantia Book in a communal setting.

In a sense, this forum is a Virtual Urantia Book Study Group. Specifically, it is a place for new readers to meet long-time readers. We welcome long-time readers as a valuable resource for assisting newcomers to better understand the teachings of The Urantia Book; this discussion board is provided for the benefit of long-time readers too, keeping our primary goal in mind."

Thanks to all. Peace.

fanofVan 8)

PS - The moderators here have not contacted me nor requested this admission and contrition. Thanks to them for their service here.


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Bradly, why do you keep apologizing? We are all hypocrites here. You just stick your head out further. None of us is the Master. He should not be the example but the inspiration.

fanofVan wrote:
It is true that the book we study is a book. Is it a book only? I don't think so. But it is not a relic or idol and it is by its contents that we may each learn to discern and integrate truth for use in our daily walk and pilgrim's trek. I hope my failures do not cause another to stumble and judge the book by my own clumsiness. My status claim as a tadpole is no false humility I know, and I have well demonstrated its validity here lately. Peace.


TUB is a book by definition and becomes an idol when people start to treat it like a person that cannot be questioned. You are abrogating the prerogatives of the Spirit of Truth, the TAs, and the spirit of the Spirit when we give TUB authority and personality. You are not only neck deep in false humility, now you have crossed over into self flagellation.

fanofVan wrote:
"Truthbook.com was created as a showcase for the teachings of The Urantia Book with an emphasis on Part IV, The Life and Teachings of Jesus.

This discussion board, as an extension of the Truthbook.com website, has one primary goal:
To be a safe place where newcomers to The Urantia Book can ask questions and explore the teachings of The Urantia Book in a communal setting.


That is fine and good but what it has become is a place where self appointed priests interpret the book for those that they consider have less capable TAs and are diseased with immunity to the spirit ministries. Teacher, leave those kids alone! (Pink Floyd)

fanofVan wrote:
In a sense, this forum is a Virtual Urantia Book Study Group. Specifically, it is a place for new readers to meet long-time readers. We welcome long-time readers as a valuable resource for assisting newcomers to better understand the teachings of The Urantia Book; this discussion board is provided for the benefit of long-time readers too, keeping our primary goal in mind."


These forums on TUB have become fraternities houses where communal thought requires conformity or else you are black-balled. This discussion board has morphed into a place where long time members practice self-aggrandizement at the expense of Newbies. Shameful indeed.

We are all hypocrites! I call on all of you to repent now!


Regards, Louis


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loucol -- usually when a member begins to go postal they receive a warning to right their ways. No warning here, but I expect you recognized when you posted that your comments have an unacceptable personal nature and were objectionable. You've been given a 30 day suspension.

Admin


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Brad, I feel I need to request of you to not leave this forum or this topic. You have been one of those I consider a bedrock of the community, one of the contributors whose comments I have most valued and it would be severely disadvantaged to be without your input.

Please don't leave or at least not for long! Yes, these times have been trying and perplexing. But sanity and progression remain to be upheld here and elsewhere...

It's strange to think that there are even some who KNOW they are wayward and yet revel in that waywardness, apparently oblivious to the fact that they are the ones who are most hurt of all...

Being Faith Sons of The Living God gives us riches of a spiritual or morontial nature that we can even now begin to partake of. No temptation or disruption can assail that.


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