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 Post subject: Jesus' 5th birthday
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123:2.13 It was the custom of the Galilean Jews for the mother to bear the responsibility for a child’s training until the fifth birthday, and then, if the child were a boy, to hold the father responsible for the lad’s education from that time on. This year, therefore, Jesus entered upon the fifth stage of a Galilean Jewish child’s career, and accordingly on August 21, 2 B.C., Mary formally turned him over to Joseph for further instruction.

Hi all,

They were living by the Hebrew calendar, which changed from year to year compared with our calendar. So how did they know that this was the exact day (by the modern calendar) of his 5th birthday?

kiwi


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus' 5th birthday
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Hi Kiwi, The (modern) mean Hebrew year lasts 365.2424 days (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar). If you compare that to the Gregorian year (365.2425 days), then apart from possible asynchronous leap years, it seems likely that a period of 5 years according to the Hebrew calendar would be equivalent to a 5 year period according to the Gregorian calendar, in terms of the total number of elapsed days. According to TUB, Jesus was born on the Gregorian date August 21, 7 B.C. 5 years later (Hebrew or Gregorian) might then be Gregorian August 21, 2 B.C..


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kiwi2 wrote:
Quote:
123:2.13 It was the custom of the Galilean Jews for the mother to bear the responsibility for a child’s training until the fifth birthday, and then, if the child were a boy, to hold the father responsible for the lad’s education from that time on. This year, therefore, Jesus entered upon the fifth stage of a Galilean Jewish child’s career, and accordingly on August 21, 2 B.C., Mary formally turned him over to Joseph for further instruction.

Hi all,

They were living by the Hebrew calendar, which changed from year to year compared with our calendar. So how did they know that this was the exact day (by the modern calendar) of his 5th birthday?

kiwi


Here is one explanation by Chris Halvorson (He who shall not be named) Lol.

http://www.perfectinghorizons.org/ByChrisHalvorson/jesbirth.pdf

Quote:
When Is Jesus’ Birthday?
by
Chris M. Halvorson


The Urantia Book says that Jesus was born “at noon, August 21, 7 B.C.” (122:8.1,
Paper:section.paragraph). However, the authors do not say if this is a Julian
Calendar date or a proleptic Gregorian Calendar date. That is, does the date refer
to the calendar that was in use at that time; or does it refer to the current calendar,
extended backward in time? More to the point, if Jesus’ birthday is celebrated on
August 21 of the current calendar, is that really the anniversary of his birth?
When the Julian Calendar was established, Julius Caesar set March 25 as the date
of the vernal equinox, which was also taken by many people as the beginning of a
new year. (The conception of Mithras—and subsequently, the incarnation of
Jesus—was assumed to be at the start of a year, with the birth nine months later on
December 25, the winter solstice.) Due to the imprecision of the Julian leap year
system (viz., every fourth year, with the extra day added before February 25), the
date of the vernal equinox drifted as the centuries passed. One of the goals of the
calendar reform of Pope Gregory XIII was to reset the date of the vernal equinox to
roughly the same date that it held at the time of the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325,
when the original method for calculating the date of Easter was established. To
that end, the day following Thursday, October 4, 1582 (in the Julian Calendar) was
declared to be Friday, October 15, 1582, the first official date of the Gregorian
Calendar.

Besides this ten-day difference between the Gregorian Calendar and the Julian
Calendar, the Gregorian reform also introduced a new leap year system. A year is a
leap year if it is divisible by 4, unless it is divisible by 100 but not 400; and the extra
day is added after February 28. The Gregorian Calendar reform did not address the
issue of when the numerical value of the year is incremented. In fact, January 1
was not universally recognized as New Year’s Day until the early decades of the
20th century. It is now common practice to conceive of both the Julian Calendar
and the Gregorian Calendar with January 1 as New Year’s Day and the extra day in
a leap year as February 29. In The Urantia Book, the year is incremented on
January 1, rather than March 25. For example, consider the story of the beginning
of the public ministry of Jesus and the twelve apostles. Paper 138 refers to the “five
months of testing” for the apostles—personal work prior to the public work. This
period is described as approximately the last five months of a year, namely, August
to December of A.D. 26 (138:7.7, 138:8.1). Then, at the beginning of Paper 141, the
public work is said to have begun on “January 19, A.D. 27”. These facts definitely
imply that January 1 is taken to be New Year’s Day. Confirmation that the year
does not increment on March 25 is given at the beginning of Paper 143. About five
months after the start of the public ministry, and after spending some time in
Jerusalem, Jesus and the twelve departed for Samaria “at the end of June, A.D. 27”.
Clearly, the year did not increment in March.

When Is Jesus’ Birthday? by Chris M. Halvorson page 2

In this analysis, Julian dates will be indicated by “A.D.” or “B.C.” associated with
the year; but Gregorian dates will use the Common Era, C.E., designation. (This is
not to be confused with the C.E. and B.C.E. designations, meaning “Christian Era”
and “Before Christian Era”.) In the Common Era Calendar, the year number can be
positive, negative, or zero (e.g., 1 B.C. is 0 C.E.). Since the Gregorian Calendar has
fewer leap years, over the centuries, than the Julian Calendar, moving backward in
time from October 15, 1582 C.E., the initial ten-day difference between the Julian
Calendar and the proleptic Gregorian Calendar progressively decreases to zero.
From March 1, A.D. 200 to February 28, A.D. 300, a given weekday has the same
month and day in both calendars; and the Gregorian day is one less from March 1,
A.D. 100 to February 29, A.D. 200. Julius Caesar inaugurated his calendar reform in 46 B.C. However, he was killed in 44 B.C., before the occurrence of the first leap year under the new system. Those
in charge of the Roman calendar misinterpreted the specification of the new leap
years as being “on the fourth year”, rather than “every four years”. In ancient
times, it was customary to count inclusively. For example, the resurrection of Jesus
was “on the third day”, Sunday. Friday, when he died, was counted as the first day.
Although scholars agree that the first twelve leap years were every three years,
they disagree about whether the first of those twelve was 43 B.C. or 42 B.C.;
because 46 B.C. was an irregular year of 445 days, to transition from the previous
calendar, making 45 B.C. the first regular Julian year. After the twelfth leap year
(10 B.C. or 9 B.C.), Caesar Augustus clarified the counting of leap years and
imposed a twelve-year moratorium on leap years (i.e., three leap years). Thus,
depending on whether 10 B.C. or 9 B.C. was the last improper leap year, the first
proper leap year was either A.D. 4 or A.D. 8, respectively. Many of the dates in The Urantia Book include not only the month, the day, and the year, but also the weekday. For example, at the beginning of Paper 140, the ordination of the twelve is said to have occurred “on Sunday, January 12, A.D. 27”.
The inclusion of the weekday with the date indirectly indicates whether the date
refers to the Julian Calendar or the proleptic Gregorian Calendar. It is a Julian
date, because the Gregorian day of January 12 is Tuesday. Further indication that
the dates in The Urantia Book are Julian dates, and that the authors are aware of
the historical confusion about the early Julian calendar, is very ingeniously
communicated by the authors, in keeping with the prohibition (in the revelatory
mandate) against imparting unearned knowledge.
Every B.C. date in The Urantia Book lacks an associated weekday; but the very first A.D. date, and almost every one after that, includes the weekday. Of particular interest, there are three A.D.
dates prior to the possible leap day in A.D. 4, namely, Wednesday, March 16, A.D. 1
(123:4.9), Friday, April 14, A.D. 2 (123:6.7), and Thursday, September 13, A.D. 3
(124:1.7). The particular weekday specified with each of these dates implies that
A.D. 4 was a leap year. If A.D. 4 had not been a leap year, then the weekdays would
have been Thursday, Saturday, and Friday, respectively. Therefore, since A.D. 4
was a leap year, 10 B.C. was the last of the improper leap years before the hiatus.
When Is Jesus’ Birthday?

by Chris M. Halvorson page 3

_________________
StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
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 Post subject: Re: Jesus' 5th birthday
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Hi Kiwi, Rajan C Mathew posted a link to this Calendar Conversion Service: http://www.rosettacalendar.com/ :), in this thread: Checking the Historical Dates in the Urantia Book. It indicates that Jesus’ parents must have used the Julian calendar (not the Hebrew calendar) to arrange Jesus’ 5th birthday exactly at Gregorian August 21, year 2 BC, as stated in TUB (123:2.13). I’ll repeat here what I said there:

According to the book, Jesus was born on Gregorian Saturday August 21, year 7 BC (122:8.1). That date converts to Julian Saturday 23, 7 BC, and Hebrew Saturday Av 28, year 3754. Jesus’ 5th birthday at Gregorian Friday August 21, 2 BC (according to TUB), converts to Julian Friday 23, year 2 BC, and Hebrew Friday Elul 23, year 3759. So, according to the Hebrew calendar, Jesus’ 5th birthday should have been on Av 28, year 3759, which converts to Gregorian July 27, year 2 BC (Julian July 29, year 2 BC), which is not compatible with TUB. Therefore, the parents of Jesus must have used the Julian calendar (which was in use at the time) to plan his 5th birthday at Gregorian Friday August 21, 2 BC..

I’m not at all sure though how likely it is that Jews of that period actually used the Julian Calendar and not the Hebrew calendar for planning Jewish birthday rituals..


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I just realized I left an entire page of Chris' explanation off there....lol oooops.

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actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


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Thanks all for your responses

kiwi


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Hi Kiwi, What do you think? Could there be Jews in those days that planned their birthday rituals according to the Julian calendar (not the Hebrew calendar)?


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Hi Bart,

I guess it's entirely possible, and it would make sense that they would, but I really don't know. I'll have to look into it more.

kiwi


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