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I have found a minor but obvious contradiction in Paper 77:

77:2.10 (857.7) When archaeologists dig up the clay-tablet records of the later-day Sumerian descendants of the Nodites, they discover lists of Sumerian kings running back for several thousand years; and as these records go further back, the reigns of the individual kings lengthen from around twenty-five or thirty years up to one hundred and fifty years and more. This lengthening of the reigns of these older kings signifies that some of the early Nodite rulers (immediate descendants of the Prince’s staff) did live longer than their later-day successors and also indicates an effort to stretch the dynasties back to Dalamatia.

77:2.11 (857.8 ) The records of such long-lived individuals are also due to the confusion of months and years as time periods. This may also be observed in the Biblical genealogy of Abraham and in the early records of the Chinese. The confusion of the twenty-eight-day month, or season, with the later introduced year of more than three hundred and fifty days is responsible for the traditions of such long human lives. There are records of a man who lived over nine hundred “years.” This period represents not quite seventy years, and such lives were regarded for ages as very long, “threescore years and ten” as such a life span was later designated.

While the paper (earlier) does confirm that the lifespans of the Nodites were indeed greatly reduced and that there was confusion about years and months, you cannot say that the clay tablets confirm that both these beings lived longer and that the timing of months and years was confused. At least not without presenting evidence.


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Nothing "obvious" except your confusion William. And there's no contradiction. It is perfectly logical and reasonable for a great but declining longevity of the Prince's staff AND a calculus error of much later historians who miscalculated decades as centuries thousands of years later - many thousands of years of oral history before the clay tablets.

So....you don't think you should inquire about your own perception and understanding BEFORE making definitive declarations??!!

Oh dear. A true skeptic should first be skeptical of themselves I think. :roll: :-s :wink: 8)


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While it is technically possible for both to be true, it's bad writing to make two opposing claims that kings from the ancient world lived longer than the latter ones but the dating methods were misunderstood thus greatly exaggerating their actual ages and then not present the evidence.

So the clay tablets say some kings lived hundreds of years. The first task would be to determine the cutoff point of where the months were converted into more accurate years (do we actually know?). Then convert the preceding months into years by grouping them to groups of 12 and then count up those years. Then can you determine if earlier kings generally lived longer or not.

The authors seem to assume that these additional details are not important. But they are if you don't want to make a text seemingly contradictory. Where can I see these clay tablets by the way?

"We know the kings lived longer back then but we also know that their ages were greatly exaggerated"

"Really? How much longer compared to today?"

"Oh give or take 20 years...?"


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The real issue here are two false claims: There has been no demonstration of any "contradiction found", minor or otherwise, It is not true, or been demostrated that the quotes provided offer "two opposing claims".

I believe the first generation of the disloyal staff survived centuries. Every generation was gradually shortened until normal human mortality longevity. It evidently took many, many generations to eventually decline to more normal life expectancies. (edited here after further research)

67:4.3 (758.1) The presence of these extraordinary supermen and superwomen, stranded by rebellion and presently mating with the sons and daughters of earth, easily gave origin to those traditional stories of the gods coming down to mate with mortals. And thus originated the thousand and one legends of a mythical nature, but founded on the facts of the postrebellion days, which later found a place in the folk tales and traditions of the various peoples whose ancestors had participated in these contacts with the Nodites and their descendants.

67:4.4 (758.2) The staff rebels, deprived of spiritual sustenance, eventually died a natural death. And much of the subsequent idolatry of the human races grew out of the desire to perpetuate the memory of these highly honored beings of the days of Caligastia.

77:2.5 (857.2) These mutant traits appearing in the first Nodite generation resulted from certain changes which had been wrought in the configuration and in the chemical constituents of the inheritance factors of the Andonic germ plasm. These changes were caused by the presence in the bodies of the staff members of the powerful life-maintenance circuits of the Satania system. These life circuits caused the chromosomes of the specialized Urantia pattern to reorganize more after the patterns of the standardized Satania specialization of the ordained Nebadon life manifestation. The technique of this germ plasm metamorphosis by the action of the system life currents is not unlike those procedures whereby Urantia scientists modify the germ plasm of plants and animals by the use of X rays.

77:2.6 (857.3) Thus did the Nodite peoples arise out of certain peculiar and unexpected modifications occurring in the life plasm which had been transferred from the bodies of the Andonite contributors to those of the corporeal staff members by the Avalon surgeons.

77:2.7 (857.4) It will be recalled that the one hundred Andonite germ plasm contributors were in turn made possessors of the organic complement of the tree of life so that the Satania life currents likewise invested their bodies. The forty-four modified Andonites who followed the staff into rebellion also mated among themselves and made a great contribution to the better strains of the Nodite people.

77:2.8 (857.5) These two groups, embracing 104 individuals who carried the modified Andonite germ plasm, constitute the ancestry of the Nodites, the eighth race to appear on Urantia. And this new feature of human life on Urantia represents another phase of the outworking of the original plan of utilizing this planet as a life-modification world, except that this was one of the unforeseen developments.

77:2.9 (857.6) The pure-line Nodites were a magnificent race, but they gradually mingled with the evolutionary peoples of earth, and before long great deterioration had occurred. Ten thousand years after the rebellion they had lost ground to the point where their average length of life was little more than that of the evolutionary races.

Me here: There was about 150,000 years of history from the rebellion to the Garden. That's about 140,000 of history and lore about the original "gods" of the old days - the original Nodites.

The link by Zack (provided originally below) is very illustrative of the failed attempt by ancient 'historians' to trace dynasties back to the Garden, the mistakenly believed origin point of humankind. Mythology is so often based upon fact. The fact is presented in the historical record of the Urantia Papers: there was a 150,000 years between the Garden and the tablets attempting to record an unbroken line of rulers back to Nod. The tablets certainly do NOT record ANY longevity records during the first thousand or ten thousand years of the Nodites during which longevity was lengthened due to their biology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_King_List

Therefore, quite logically, are both 77:2.10 and 2.11 true and reasonable and reflective of our history.

And I repeat that such so called contradictions or discrepancies discovered by any reader, but most especially a new reader, should result in questions and not declarations!! :wink: =;


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:39 am +0000, edited 4 times in total.

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William S. wrote:
While it is technically possible for both to be true, it's bad writing to make two opposing claims that kings from the ancient world lived longer than the latter ones but the dating methods were misunderstood thus greatly exaggerating their actual ages and then not present the evidence.

So the clay tablets say some kings lived hundreds of years. The first task would be to determine the cutoff point of where the months were converted into more accurate years (do we actually know?). Then convert the preceding months into years by grouping them to groups of 12 and then count up those years. Then can you determine if earlier kings generally lived longer or not.

The authors seem to assume that these additional details are not important. But they are if you don't want to make a text seemingly contradictory. Where can I see these clay tablets by the way?

"We know the kings lived longer back then but we also know that their ages were greatly exaggerated"

"Really? How much longer compared to today?"

"Oh give or take 20 years...?"



They may have been confused, in this link:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/sumerian_King_List

You can see the firsh kirsh dynasty until the last dynasty thath has a maximum period of 1200 years ( separating Etana), confirming the 12 months


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Quote:
I believe the first generation of the disloyal staff survived centuries. Every generation was gradually shortened until normal human mortality longevity. It evidently took many, many generations to eventually decline to more normal life expectancies.


That may be what the UB says, but since the UB has also established the exaggeration from confusing moon years with solar years, I want to know how many exaggerated years were given.

I'll take a look at Zack's link, but I have to ask again where the cutoff point would be where they began calculating the years more accurately. edit after research: I looked at the link and I see the some of the normal lifespans are mixed with some exaggerated lifespans. I have no way of knowing whether the shorter reigns are more accurate years or only a few months.

While we are on the subject, I have to point out that this would be an excellent bit of information to use against Bible literalists and young earth creationists like Ken Ham.


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eh well you missed the third reason given for the long reigns which was an attempt to stretch the entire dynasty back to dalamatia and also the link mentions that archeology says some of these kings were concurrent (kings of city states) rather than chronological as listed. and i think expecting a distinct cut-off date between age calculated in months and calculated in years is an assumption of yours that doesn't necessarily exist. the kings list comes from like 8 different tablets, compiled at different times by different authors, and you've no way of knowing if any of those authors were as confused about months vs. years as we are today.

even if you could differentiate between true years and "normal" lifespans, true years and abnormally longer lifespans, month "years" and outright fabricated years i'm not sure what you will have proven/disproven nor what meaning and value you've added to whats already known...suit yourself <shrugs>

but if you seriously want to attempt it there are plenty of links to the individual kings in the wikipedia article for you to begin your research :-D


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