Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Wed May 27, 2020 8:34 am +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:42 pm +0000
Posts: 2411
Location: Central New Mexico, USA
I think a lot of that stuff is neither auto nor epochal revelation but the spirit of intuition.

And the UB does not say much about such things, but what it does go into is the historic aspect of ghost cults, which indicates such things are very primitive and we ought not depend on them or put any credence in them. And it often uses words that disparage the idea. However, there are ways and means of reading the Book -- or reading between the lines -- and finding all manner of possibilities or plausibilities for all kinds of things if we allow our imaginations some wiggle room ... speculation being one of those things we have in common with higher beings than we are.

I note with interest that Porshunta, who serves on the Council of 24, is billed as an oracle. So, much of it depends on your definition of "psychic phenomenon" "perception" "metaphysics" "channel" etc., etc., etc. And there are many, many references to other things in the UB that can be perceived as part of a celestial-mortal liaison of one sort or another, like the words that were spoken to the shepherd boy, but overall it's a delicate subject, because we don't want the UB to get lost in a quagmire of cultism or a sesspool of charlatanry. It should be in the religious section, or history, but not the occult.

However, no matter what we think about ways and means, the UB will find its way into the minds and hearts of those who are open to its teachings, by whatever means. The UB has a way of making itself known to people, and Thought Adjusters have a way of adjusting our thoughts godward. Thus, "The act is ours, the consequences Gods." Just don't be sordid about it. :wink:

_________________
Gerdean O'Dell
Author: "Secrets of Promise"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:47 pm +0000
Posts: 265
the very manner in which TUB was revealed, written and accepted, intrigued me best. the very reason why we believed is due to its contents; which content we percieved as coming from higher source (spirit world). the irony would be believing in TUB while at the same time denying the existence of our own inner or spirits/ spiritual self ; which existence is susceptible to the influences of all this other forms of spirit / cosmic energies and aptterns. the ghost, the devils, the angels,the midwayers, the planets are all derived from the same cosmic energy and source. And GOD, the Universal Father,the director (the TUB?) of the whole universe is himself a spirit being; the father of all spirits in the whole universe.

material man prefers material explanations for only material answers satisfy his mortal justifications; like wise, morontial beings and spirits in the mansion world would see and percieved differntly, for they now are in a diferent level of existence. we just have to wait for the day when we graduated to their level to understand. material man would wiggled and justify their ways, rightly so, in accordance to his temporal physical expectations.

the birth of astrology and those other fields of the so called pseudo-sciences and real science (or is it institutionalized sciences) are the result of thinking by this intelliegent animals,it differentiated them from the instinct driven baser animals;the very proof that this thinking animal is an evolving ascending souls ( multi tier being). while it is true that fear/ghost fear motivates these primitive minds to create primitive relgions and living culture, it is only unfair to deny or disregard of their experiences. the so called modern man percieved themselves to be better off in understanding and thinking capability/knowledge; but does that determination justify their bearing on spiritual things and deny the cosmic and divine working and systems of things which we do not fully comprehend?.the so call modern or civilized thinking gave rise to technology and modern science, which fruits could then satisfy their physical needs, and rightly so, but spiritual fullfillment and happiness just cannot be discovered and fullfilled by focussing on this one level of thinking and perception; it must be both, temporal and spiritual.
man today still do not fully understand everything in sciences, let alone things spiritual and divine. the world of light and life.

in their attempt to understand themselves and God leads to such things as astrology. the forms may be less enligthened to the minds of this so call scientific inclined modern man, but it does not necessarily invalidate them ( remember the TA).ie. if the the workings of the celestial cosmic energy is taken into consideration. while the mind of man could conjure illusions and creative ideas, this very same mind is also the result of divine influence and susceptible to cosmic influence as well.

the fact is that man evolved and move forward into the future; into a higher form of existence and in intelligence, so it is only natural that they want to leave all the past behind, sometimes dreading them, assigning with it the negative generalization.
while it is true that depending and believing too much on astrology and the likes slowed the growth, but neither this mean that they should be deny of its place in the cosmic schemes of things.
to be skeptical without an open mind is being myopic and intellectual arrogant, but neither is believing without a skeptical mind is wise, for we will not be able to learn and grow.

as one forumer puts it; there are more things in this heaven and earth.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:46 am +0000
Posts: 20
Location: Arizona
I think it's in Genesis 1:14 were it says "I gave you the stars as signs".

Whether or not you believe in astrology, to me it seems ituitive that this fragment of God within us, this compass that guides us home to the source and center, would create an inner lure to have what's "out there" be relevant and comprehensible.

Often, my only prayer/worship is to stand outside at night and stare out at the stars knowing that somewhere, out there, is home. My family.

I don't practice astrology myself, except for amusement or sometimes... in hopes that a message will be there guiding me, not because astrology has the message, but because my Thought Adjuster does... and I need something "tangible" to guide me or comfort me in a moment of chaos. Who cares how the message gets delivered, right? Just that it gets delivered.

This planet is a tough gig... we're all just trying to find answers. No point in being intolerant about what others believe... astrology was introduced to me before Urantia was and it did open my mind up to greater possibilities, a universe that made sense, had order it in it...

It may be someone's baby step to the Urantia Book... you just never know how these clever thought adjusters steer someone elses ship.

_________________
I. Believe. ~ Patti


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1085
Location: Denver CO
Well said, CuriousUniverse...

Just because we may know that astrology is a useless pursuit - as you say, it may be someone else's path to higher truth - scaffolding leading to something better. I dabbled in astrology, too, some years back before I found The Urantia Book - and I still read my horoscope in the morning paper, just because it seems a bit of harmless fun. I usually forget it right away - never pattern my life on what it says - but every once in awhile, it seems to parallel what is happening in my life. I consider that that is because it WILL be right some of the time, just because of random chance.

But who knows? It could be used by our celestial friends to help a seeker find a better way. So many of us are still groping in the dark, trying to make sense of this existence, and I feel sure that our adjusters use whatever they can to light our way and deliver us into the truth. God ministers to us as we are and where we are...anyone who is a true seeker will eventually find out what is important.

I don't remember you posting before, CuriousUniverse - although you may have. I want to welcome you to this forum just because you are new voice to me. Glad to see you here!

MaryJo


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:46 am +0000
Posts: 20
Location: Arizona
Thank you, Mary Jo and I am new here. My name, actually, is Patti Jo. :o)

I've really been enjoying your posts and videos. Thank you for being here.

_________________
I. Believe. ~ Patti


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1085
Location: Denver CO
Dear Patti Jo,

So glad to make your acquaintance...! Always good to meet a Urantia sister.

Have you been reading a long time? Or are you new to the revelation? Would love to hear your story...

MaryJo


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:46 am +0000
Posts: 20
Location: Arizona
I've been reading for almost 30 years... sometimes more than others, but have been here hoping to meet more people like me.

I am a believer... for realsies. The last two years have been a process of reconciling that with myself. Sometimes it can get a little lonely being a Urantian. So glad I found this place... I really needed the push of others like me right now.

Thank you for your warm welcome... we'll have to share stories.

_________________
I. Believe. ~ Patti


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:37 pm +0000
Posts: 1471
Location: Hawaii
Well there you go...welcome to the forum...lots of wonderful people here...Aloha

_________________
A fellow Agondonter...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:47 pm +0000
Posts: 1394
Location: San Antonio
lots of good people in our community, take some time to discover the resources this site has to offer


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:14 am +0000
Posts: 284
Location: India
While the UB categorically say that the stars and planets have nothing to do with our future, destiny or personal traits, it does state that there are influences of the universal gravity lines (I do not recall the exact words or phrase) on every individual while he or she is born. I take it this way then. The stars and the planets do not have any influence. But there exists some universal force lines that cause certain imprints on the gene coding of the individual at the time of birth. This imprint keep changing and might be even cyclic as the earth keeps rotating and keeps revolving around the sun and the solar system keeps moving. The influence on the first two are discernible by those humans who wish explore these. However, there is all possibility that they might falsely attribute the influences to the visible position of some predominant luminaires in the sky.
I think that the UB authors while telling the truth that the stars and planets do not have any influence on man, also do not deny the possibility of personality characterisitics being shaped at some time during the birth of a baby. At the same time, for reasons best known to them, it seems that they are not in favour of ordinary human beings waste their time and energy after astrology.
IMHO, the revelators seem to take this kind of an approach (at least for the time being) for many other things where we have our curiosity. They also admit this by saying that they do not have the mandate to reveal everything.

_________________
Rajan C Mathew, India.
Guide Us Father to Live according to Your Plans !
http://rajan-c-mathew.blogspot.in


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:35 am +0000
Posts: 535
Location: king of prussia, pa
tub stays consistent with the life of michael on urantia and jesus condemned it. in history astrology's wrong but today we have books like linda goodman's sun signs which indicates that there is truth to characteristics of different astrological charts. the goal is to overcome all these traits and live perfectly, then you would not be identifiable by a sun sign. superstitious nonsense before the modern era is what tub is condemning. there was so little scientific information for astrology in the past that it was worthless and tub stays consistent throughout the book to the times of jesus. astrological predictions are still worthless today but characteristics of people with different sun signs is evident. tub wants to emphasize that astrology led to astronomy and doesn't want to muddy it's message by saying anything good about astrology.

88:6.5 Magic was the branch off the evolutionary religious tree which eventually bore the fruit of a scientific age. Belief in astrology led to the development of astronomy; belief in a philosopher’s stone led to the mastery of metals, while belief in magic numbers founded the science of mathematics. 88:6.7 Gradually science is removing the gambling element from life. But if modern methods of education should fail, there would be an almost immediate reversion to the primitive beliefs in magic. These superstitions still linger in the minds of many so-called civilized people. Language contains many fossils which testify that the race has long been steeped in magical superstition, such words as spellbound, ill-starred, possessions, inspiration, spirit away, ingenuity, entrancing, thunderstruck, and astonished. And intelligent human beings still believe in good luck, the evil eye, and astrology. 90:2.5 The medicine men put great trust in signs and omens, such as, “When you hear the sound of a rustling in the tops of the mulberry trees, then shall you bestir yourself.” Very early in the history of the race the shamans turned their attention to the stars. Primitive astrology was a world-wide belief and practice; dream interpreting also became widespread. All this was soon followed by the appearance of those temperamental shamanesses who professed to be able to communicate with the spirits of the dead. 121:5.5 Astrology. This pseudo science of Babylon developed into a religion throughout the Greco-Roman Empire. Even in the twentieth century man has not been fully delivered from this superstitious belief. 150:3.3 The courses of the stars in the heavens have nothing whatever to do with the events of human life on earth. Astronomy is a proper pursuit of science, but astrology is a mass of superstitious error which has no place in the gospel of the kingdom.

Rajan C Mathew wrote:
The Urantia Book treats astrology as a pseudo-science and yet admits its popularity even among intelligent men in modern times.

Quote:

88:6.5 Magic was the branch off the evolutionary religious tree which eventually bore the fruit of a scientific age. Belief in astrology led to the development of astronomy; belief in a philosopher`s stone led to the mastery of metals, while belief in magic numbers founded the science of mathematics.


88:6.7 Gradually science is removing the gambling element from life. But if modern methods of education should fail, there would be an almost immediate reversion to the primitive beliefs in magic. These superstitions still linger in the minds of many so-called civilized people. Language contains many fossils which testify that the race has long been steeped in magical superstition, such words as spellbound, ill-starred, possessions, inspiration, spirit away, ingenuity, entrancing, thunderstruck, and astonished. And intelligent human beings still believe in good luck, the evil eye, and astrology.


90:2.5 The medicine men put great trust in signs and omens, such as, “When you hear the sound of a rustling in the tops of the mulberry trees, then shall you bestir yourself. ”Very early in the history of the race the shamans turned their attention to the stars. Primitive astrology was a world-wide belief and practice; dream interpreting also became widespread. All this was soon followed by the appearance of those temperamental shamanesses who professed to be able to communicate with the spirits of the dead.


90:2.7 Again and again did the Caesars banish the astrologers, but they invariably returned because of the popular belief in their powers. They could not be driven out, and even in the sixteenth century after Christ the directors of Occidental church and state were the patrons of astrology. Thousands of supposedly intelligent people still believe that one may be born under the domination of a lucky or an unlucky star; that the juxtaposition of the heavenly bodies determines the outcome of various terrestrial adventures. Fortunetellers are still patronized by the credulous.


95:1.7 This defeat of the Salem gospel was immediately followed by a great increase in the cult of Ishtar, a ritual which had already invaded Palestine as Ashtoreth, Egypt as Isis, Greece as Aphrodite, and the northern tribes as Astarte. And it was in connection with this revival of the worship of Ishtar that the Babylonian priests turned anew to stargazing; astrology experienced its last great Mesopotamian revival, fortunetelling became the vogue, and for centuries the priesthood increasingly deteriorated.


121:5.5 3. astrology. This pseudo science of Babylon developed into a religion throughout the Greco-Roman Empire. Even in the twentieth century man has not been fully delivered from this superstitious belief.


150:3.3 1. The courses of the stars in the heavens have nothing whatever to do with the events of human life on earth. Astronomy is a proper pursuit of science, but astrology is a mass of superstitious error which has no place in the gospel of the kingdom.



Even the so-called intelligent people who believe in astrology have some reasons to justify those belief. There are even computer programmes that could provide a psychological and attitudinal profile of a person based on his birth time and other information and provide pages of other predictions. All these predictions may not be correct, but a good portion of these predictions appear as correct to the person concerned as he can draw from his life experiences and personality features known to him. I myself has found partial truths in such predictions and often wonder how such things are made possible.

As the UB revelators tell us, it could be due to our own limitations of knowledge and understandings.

Any comments ?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:37 pm +0000
Posts: 1471
Location: Hawaii
Aloha...I too have a curiousity with astrology but the bottom line for me is...do I really want to base my life's decisions and choices a pseudo scence?

121:5.5 3. astrology. This pseudo science of Babylon developed into a religion throughout the Greco-Roman Empire. Even in the twentieth century man has not been fully delivered from this superstitious belief.

I am a truth-seeker:)

_________________
A fellow Agondonter...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:35 am +0000
Posts: 535
Location: king of prussia, pa
no, neither do i, i would never use astrology to base my life on or for predictions, that's dumb as tub says, but there is validity to characteristics on different sun signs. 12:3.12 Personality Gravity is noncomputable. We recognize the circuit, but we cannot measure either qualitative or quantitative realities responsive thereto. 160:1.9 Even though you are effectively armed to meet the difficult situations of life, you can hardly expect success unless you are equipped with that wisdom of mind and charm of personality which enable you to win the hearty support and co-operation of your fellows. You cannot hope for a large measure of success in either secular or religious work unless you can learn how to persuade your fellows, to prevail with men. You simply must have tact and tolerance. 0:11.7 2. The Unqualified Absolute is nonpersonal, extradivine, and undeified. The Unqualified Absolute is therefore devoid of personality, divinity, and all creator prerogatives. Neither fact nor truth, experience nor revelation, philosophy nor absonity are able to penetrate the nature and character of this Absolute without universe qualification.

personality is not measurable but character can be seen. i hope i'm charming. to penetrate the nature and character and personality of god is challenging and interesting.

tootsie wrote:
Aloha...I too have a curiousity with astrology but the bottom line for me is...do I really want to base my life's decisions and choices a pseudo scence?

121:5.5 3. astrology. This pseudo science of Babylon developed into a religion throughout the Greco-Roman Empire. Even in the twentieth century man has not been fully delivered from this superstitious belief.

I am a truth-seeker:)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:14 am +0000
Posts: 284
Location: India
Of all the things that are explained in the UB, the one that apparently looks hidden in the Urantia Book is its explanation to astrology and other unexplained human observations involving phenomena such as astral projections, channelling and the human nature according to the zodiac. While looking at it to the details, I get the perception that the authors somehow deal the topic in an indirect manner while outrightly rejecting most of those observed things as shamanism [ in reality they are right if one is to go by the percentage of falsehood in such things!] Perhaps, these are things not of importance for ordinary mortals for spiritual progress and in realizing God's love ! So, I feel they have omitted out these in the larger interests of human race !

Recently I came across the channelled revelations that were received by James Padgett some time during the Urantia Papers were also in the process of receipt. Though I have not gone through it fully, I find some striking similarities as well as dissimilarities. They are enough to create confusions in the minds of common people. Yet they are instigators of mind for the curious ones.

I would like to hear the views of those of the latter kind.

_________________
Rajan C Mathew, India.
Guide Us Father to Live according to Your Plans !
http://rajan-c-mathew.blogspot.in


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:09 pm +0000
Posts: 1817
Hello Rajan,

I agree with your post -- there is mystery and enough seeming truth in much of psychic material to lure seekers into believing in them while there is relatively little given in The Urantia Book to warn directly against their actual spiritual value.

Most channeled material relates to things that we find intriguing and pleasing -- we are told things that are close to what deep down we want to hear like, God is good, everything is love, life continues after death... all wrapped up in seemingly esoteric teachings... they're "feel good" stories. After studying a few such things we can begin to recognize their sameness and their lack of any underlying cohisive depth. Still, a spiritual seeker can recognize that there must be "something more" out there to be discovered.

Psycic activity is a function of the unconscious and subconscious mind -- it's human in origin. Its messages may seem spiritual but they're intended to give us our mind's desires rather than coming from a foundation of reality. They're spiritual pabulum and probably dangerous only if we focus all attention and belief on them -- as long as one can recognize that there's more in a good sense out there than is being fed then these trips down divergent alleyways may be of some partial benefit.

Personally, reading Padgette would be a waste of time. However, the messages he believed he was receiving certainly may have benefited his personal perception of spiritual things and may contain some meaning to other seekers. For me the reality is TUB , the rest is wishful thinking.

Best wishes,
Larry


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group