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 Post subject: Moral reality
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As a Urantian of 2011, how do you go about accessing your moral reality?

Do we, as the OT Hebrews, equate "moral reality" with keeping the Law? or the NT doctrine of salvation? or embrace the FER idea of "moral reality" as an inevitable outcome to which we are invited and encouraged to responsibly develop?

Our moral reality is inseperable from our relationship with God.


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196.3.10
The human mind does not create real values; human experience does not yield universe insight. Concerning insight, the recognition of moral values and the discernment of spiritual meanings, all that the human mind can do is to discover, recognize, interpret, and choose.


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The moral reality as the pursuit of the divine ideal is not something static.

For as we are today, we feel this moral impulse, then we should try to practice this morality that comes from closeness to God (with the Guardian of the Mind).

According to the talents we possess, we should make them fruitful.

Our life is a long trial and after physical death, we will continue this endless testing in the eternity.

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moral reality is raw vegan eating, sex only to have children, nothing orally ingested but raw plant food so no smoking, liquor, drugs. doing the will of god as best one can and returning something positive for hatred not just not doing anything. i have no finite concept of god. i wouldn't want to be an havona native, i'd rather have all this imperfection and then grow to moral perfection.

0:2.1 Evolving mortal creatures experience an irresistible urge to symbolize their finite concepts of God. Man’s consciousness of moral duty and his spiritual idealism represent a value level — an experiential reality — which is difficult of symbolization. 3:5.16 The full appreciation of truth, beauty, and goodness is inherent in the perfection of the divine universe. The inhabitants of the Havona worlds do not require the potential of relative value levels as a choice stimulus; such perfect beings are able to identify and choose the good in the absence of all contrastive and thought-compelling moral situations. But all such perfect beings are, in moral nature and spiritual status, what they are by virtue of the fact of existence. They have experientially earned advancement only within their inherent status. Mortal man earns even his status as an ascension candidate by his own faith and hope. Everything divine which the human mind grasps and the human soul acquires is an experiential attainment; it is a reality of personal experience and is therefore a unique possession in contrast to the inherent goodness and righteousness of the inerrant personalities of Havona.

3:6.3 All religious philosophy, sooner or later, arrives at the concept of unified universe rule, of one God. Universe causes cannot be lower than universe effects. The source of the streams of universe life and of the cosmic mind must be above the levels of their manifestation. The human mind cannot be consistently explained in terms of the lower orders of existence. Man’s mind can be truly comprehended only by recognizing the reality of higher orders of thought and purposive will. Man as a moral being is inexplicable unless the reality of the Universal Father is acknowledged.

animals aren't really moral, they're too automatic.


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sex only to have children
There is nothing inmorale with having sex with your spouse. This is definitely not a idea supported by the u.b. self-gratification is fine, its only in excess or when it hurts the family life and the home is when it becomes inmorale. Infact we are sex-creature's and there is nothing evil about that. As long as it's True Monogomy

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Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
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loveofrightdoing


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I Re read this last night , and fits in this topic ,
Enlightening and Inspiring .

2. LESSON ON SELF-MASTERY

143:2.1 The Master was a perfected specimen of human self-control. When he was reviled, he reviled not; when he suffered, he uttered no threats against his tormentors; when he was denounced by his enemies, he simply committed himself to the righteous judgment of the Father in heaven.

143:2.2 At one of the evening conferences, Andrew asked Jesus: “Master, are we to practice self-denial as John taught us, or are we to strive for the self-control of your teaching? Wherein does your teaching differ from that of John?” Jesus answered: “John indeed taught you the way of righteousness in accordance with the light and laws of his fathers, and that was the religion of self-examination and self-denial. But I come with a new message of self-forgetfulness and self-control. I show to you the way of life as revealed to me by my Father in heaven.

143:2.3 “Verily, verily, I say to you, he who rules his own self is greater than he who captures a city. Self-mastery is the measure of man’s moral nature and the indicator of his spiritual development. In the old order you fasted and prayed; as the new creature of the rebirth of the spirit, you are taught to believe and rejoice. In the Father’s kingdom you are to become new creatures; old things are to pass away; behold I show you how all things are to become new. And by your love for one another you are to convince the world that you have passed from bondage to liberty, from death into life everlasting.

143:2.4 “By the old way you seek to suppress, obey, and conform to the rules of living; by the new way you are first transformed by the Spirit of Truth and thereby strengthened in your inner soul by the constant spiritual renewing of your mind, and so are you endowed with the power of the certain and joyous performance of the gracious, acceptable, and perfect will of God. Forget not—it is your personal faith in the exceedingly great and precious promises of God that ensures your becoming partakers of the divine nature. Thus by your faith and the spirit’s transformation, you become in reality the temples of God, and his spirit actually dwells within you. If, then, the spirit dwells within you, you are no longer bondslaves of the flesh but free and liberated sons of the spirit. The new law of the spirit endows you with the liberty of self-mastery in place of the old law of the fear of self-bondage and the slavery of self-denial.

143:2.5 “Many times, when you have done evil, you have thought to charge up your acts to the influence of the evil one when in reality you have but been led astray by your own natural tendencies. Did not the Prophet Jeremiah long ago tell you that the human heart is deceitful above all things and sometimes even desperately wicked? How easy for you to become self-deceived and thereby fall into foolish fears, divers lusts, enslaving pleasures, malice, envy, and even vengeful hatred!

143:2.6 “Salvation is by the regeneration of the spirit and not by the self-righteous deeds of the flesh. You are justified by faith and fellowshipped by grace, not by fear and the self-denial of the flesh, albeit the Father’s children who have been born of the spirit are ever and always masters of the self and all that pertains to the desires of the flesh. When you know that you are saved by faith, you have real peace with God. And all who follow in the way of this heavenly peace are destined to be sanctified to the eternal service of the ever-advancing sons of the eternal God. Henceforth, it is not a duty but rather your exalted privilege to cleanse yourselves from all evils of mind and body while you seek for perfection in the love of God.

143:2.7 “Your sonship is grounded in faith, and you are to remain unmoved by fear. Your joy is born of trust in the divine word, and you shall not therefore be led to doubt the reality of the Father’s love and mercy. It is the very goodness of God.that leads men into true and genuine repentance. Your secret of the mastery of self is bound up with your faith in the indwelling spirit, which ever works by love. Even this saving faith you have not of yourselves; it also is the gift of God. And if you are the children of this living faith, you are no longer the bondslaves of self but rather the triumphant masters of yourselves, the liberated sons of God.

143:2.8 “If, then, my children, you are born of the spirit, you are forever delivered from the self-conscious bondage of a life of self-denial and watchcare over the desires of the flesh, and you are translated into the joyous kingdom of the spirit, whence you spontaneously show forth the fruits of the spirit in your daily lives; and the fruits of the spirit are the essence of the highest type of enjoyable and ennobling self-control, even the heights of terrestrial mortal attainment—true self-mastery.”


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Theres TABOO'S
Where Whats Taboo or unacceptable in One Groups Culture
IS Acceptable Behaviour IN Another Group .
Whether Its Polygamy , / many Wives Etc ...

The Primitive Taboo Has Evolved Into Todays Laws of Each Country.

70:11.2
Law is always at first negative and prohibitive; in advancing civilizations it becomes increasingly positive and directive. Early society operated negatively, granting the individual the right to live by imposing upon all others the command, “you shall not kill.” Every grant of rights or liberty to the individual involves curtailment of the liberties of all others, and this is effected by the taboo, primitive law. The whole idea of the taboo is inherently negative, for primitive society was wholly negative in its organization, and the early administration of justice consisted in the enforcement of the taboos. But originally these laws applied only to fellow tribesmen, as is illustrated by the later-day Hebrews, who had a different code of ethics for dealing with the gentiles.


70:11.4 Crime was an assault upon the tribal mores, sin was the transgression of those taboos which enjoyed ghost sanction, and there was long confusion due to the failure to segregate crime and sin.


70:11.5 Self-interest established the taboo on killing, society sanctified it as traditional mores, while religion consecrated the custom as moral law, and thus did all three conspire in rendering human life more safe and sacred. Society could not have held together during early times had not rights had the sanction of religion; superstition was the moral and social police force of the long evolutionary ages. The ancients all claimed that their olden laws, the taboos, had been given to their ancestors by the gods.


71:3.7 The laws of the ideal state are few in number, and they have passed out of the negativistic taboo age into the era of the positive progress of individual liberty consequent upon enhanced self-control. The exalted state not only compels its citizens to work but also entices them into profitable and uplifting utilization of the increasing leisure which results from toil liberation by the advancing machine age. Leisure must produce as well as consume.


82:2.0 2. The Restrictive Taboos


82:2.4 In the earliest stages of tribal development the mores and restrictive taboos were very crude, but they did keep the sexes apart — this favored quiet, order, and industry — and the long evolution of marriage and the home had begun. The sex customs of dress, adornment, and religious practices had their origin in these early taboos which defined the range of sex liberties and thus eventually created concepts of vice, crime, and sin. But it was long the practice to suspend all sex regulations on high festival days, especially May Day. :shock:


82:2.5 Women have always been subject to more restrictive taboos than men. The early mores granted the same degree of sex liberty to unmarried women as to men, but it has always been required of wives that they be faithful to their husbands. Primitive marriage did not much curtail man’s sex liberties, but it did render further sex license taboo to the wife. Married women have always borne some mark which set them apart as a class by themselves, such as hairdress, clothing, veil, seclusion, ornamentation, and rings.


82:4.5 Since the chastity taboo had its origin as a phase of the property mores, it applied at first to married women but not to unmarried girls. In later years, chastity was more demanded by the father than by the suitor; a virgin was a commercial asset to the father — she brought a higher price. As chastity came more into demand, it was the practice to pay the father a bride fee in recognition of the service of properly rearing a chaste bride for the husband-to-be. When once started, this idea of female chastity took such hold on the races that it became the practice literally to cage up girls, actually to imprison them for years, in order to assure their virginity. And so the more recent standards and virginity tests automatically gave origin to the professional prostitute classes; they were the rejected brides, those women who were found by the grooms’ mothers not to be virgins.


82:5.2 While the inbreeding of good stock sometimes resulted in the upbuilding of strong tribes, the spectacular cases of the bad results of the inbreeding of hereditary defectives more forcibly impressed the mind of man, with the result that the advancing mores increasingly formulated taboos against all marriages among near relatives.


82:5.5 The first move away from brother and sister marriages came about under the plural-wife mores because the sister-wife would arrogantly dominate the other wife or wives. Some tribal mores forbade marriage to a dead brother’s widow but required the living brother to beget children for his departed brother. There is no biologic instinct against any degree of in-marriage; such restrictions are wholly a matter of taboo.


82:5.7 Many tribes finally forbade marriages within the clan; others limited mating to certain castes. The taboo against marriage with a woman of one’s own totem gave impetus to the custom of stealing women from neighboring tribes. Later on, marriages were regulated more in accordance with territorial residence than with kinship. There were many steps in the evolution of in-marriage into the modern practice of outmarriage. Even after the taboo rested upon in-marriages for the common people, chiefs and kings were permitted to marry those of close kin in order to keep the royal blood concentrated and pure. The mores have usually permitted sovereign rulers certain licenses in sex matters.


82:5.10 The otherwise inexplicable inconsistencies of the racial marriage mores are largely due to this outmarriage custom with its accompanying wife stealing and buying from foreign tribes, all of which resulted in a compounding of the separate tribal mores. That these taboos respecting in-marriage were sociologic, not biologic, is well illustrated by the taboos on kinship marriages, which embraced many degrees of in-law relationships, cases representing no blood relation whatsoever.


83:2.6 The betrothal was originally equivalent to marriage; and among early peoples sex relations were conventional during the engagement. In recent times, religion has established a sex taboo on the period between betrothal and marriage.


83:5.12 The taboo wife — one wife of legal status — created the concubine mores. Under these mores a man might have only one wife, but he could maintain sex relations with any number of concubines. Concubinage was the steppingstone to monogamy, the first move away from frank polygyny. The concubines of the Jews, Romans, and Chinese were very frequently the handmaidens of the wife. Later on, as among the Jews, the legal wife was looked upon as the mother of all children born to the husband.


83:5.13 The olden taboos on sex relations with a pregnant or nursing wife tended greatly to foster polygyny. Primitive women aged very early because of frequent childbearing coupled with hard work. (Such overburdened wives only managed to exist by virtue of the fact that they were put in isolation one week out of each month when they were not heavy with child.) Such a wife often grew tired of bearing children and would request her husband to take a second and younger wife, one able to help with both childbearing and the domestic work. The new wives were therefore usually hailed with delight by the older spouses; there existed nothing on the order of sex jealousy.


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141:3.4 There was intellectual attractiveness and spiritual drawing power in his authoritative manner of teaching, in his lucid logic, his strength of reasoning, his sagacious insight, his alertness of mind, his matchless poise, and his sublime tolerance.

jesus didn't stop thinking, he didn't attach anything but the good parts of the old testament to his teachings and just because we have tub doesn't mean we are supposed to stop thinking too. the universal father turned to the eternal son and said even though we've created 700,000 of these beings, this time let's just do it for fun. the eternal son said he had a headache. 21:1.4 I do not know the exact number of Creator Sons in existence, but I have good reasons for believing that there are more than seven hundred thousand.

we are patterned after god. do you think adam and eve after being on an evolutionary sphere for countless ages and having a tremendous number of offspring engage in sex for fun? man is only here a short while and in this day and age it's too much for man to only engage in sex for procreation but if the god's don't engage in the equivalent of human sex other than to produce beings then that is the ideal for man. could you imagine if tub had said sex is only for procreation? the book would have been thrown out before it ever got to print. 82:1.1 Notwithstanding the personality gulf between men and women, the sex urge is sufficient to insure their coming together for the reproduction of the species. This instinct operated effectively long before humans experienced much of what was later called love, devotion, and marital loyalty. Mating is an innate propensity, and marriage is its evolutionary social repercussion.

the first line is the author's important thought. tub is a dead book, the words are finished, that doesn't mean you're supposed to stop thinking. service is best applied to others if i spend that time in "loving" association in sex with someone spending it in other ways with others. sex is only needed for procreation if you are maximizing your service to others.


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sex only to have children
There is nothing inmorale with having sex with your spouse. This is definitely not a idea supported by the u.b. self-gratification is fine, its only in excess or when it hurts the family life and the home is when it becomes inmorale. Infact we are sex-creature's and there is nothing evil about that. As long as it's True Monogomy


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141:3.4 There was intellectual attractiveness and spiritual drawing power in his authoritative manner of teaching, in his lucid logic, his strength of reasoning, his sagacious insight, his alertness of mind, his matchless poise, and his sublime tolerance.

jesus didn't stop thinking, he didn't attach anything but the good parts of the old testament to his teachings and just because we have tub doesn't mean we are supposed to stop thinking too. the universal father turned to the eternal son and said even though we've created 700,000 of these beings, this time let's just do it for fun. the eternal son said he had a headache. 21:1.4 I do not know the exact number of Creator Sons in existence, but I have good reasons for believing that there are more than seven hundred thousand.

we are patterned after god. do you think adam and eve after being on an evolutionary sphere for countless ages and having a tremendous number of offspring engage in sex for fun? man is only here a short while and in this day and age it's too much for man to only engage in sex for procreation but if the god's don't engage in the equivalent of human sex other than to produce beings then that is the ideal for man. could you imagine if tub had said sex is only for procreation? the book would have been thrown out before it ever got to print.


Nothing that you said is supported by the Urantia Book. First of all we are not made in the image of god. Second of all that is not at all how Creator Son's come into being, there is no intercourse between the Eternal Son and the Universal Father. Thirdly we are not live our life's like God lives his life, nor are we to go around and act like a creator son, we cannot and are not expected to act like Creator Son's. We can live as sex-creatures and have sex with our spouse. It seem's to me you are professing catholic and christian ideology's and translating them to the Urantia Book.

I am a little surprised some of your posts are allowed on this forum.

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StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


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Yes Boomshuka, I'm surprised too that we have put up with Rich's posts for as long as we have. He seldom contributes meaningful posts, seldom interacts with others, spends a considerable amount of time on posts that don't relate to the topic. He's been restricted to 5 posts a day, hoping that would cause some improvement... doesn't seem to have had much effect. He's on the verge of being removed. We just need something to push us over the edge and it will happen.

Larry


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lwatkins wrote:
Yes Boomshuka, I'm surprised too that we have put up with Rich's posts for as long as we have. He seldom contributes meaningful posts, seldom interacts with others, spends a considerable amount of time on posts that don't relate to the topic. He's been restricted to 5 posts a day, hoping that would cause some improvement... doesn't seem to have had much effect. He's on the verge of being removed. We just need something to push us over the edge and it will happen.

Larry


i think my posts are meaningful. i'm interacting right here.

3:4.7 Finite appreciation of infinite qualities far transcends the logically limited capacities of the creature because of the fact that mortal man is made in the image of God — there lives within him a fragment of infinity. Therefore man’s nearest and dearest approach to God is by and through love, for God is love. And all of such a unique relationship is an actual experience in cosmic sociology, the Creator-creature relationship — the Father-child affection. 117:3.5 Mortal man is more than figuratively made in the image of God. From a physical standpoint this statement is hardly true, but with reference to certain universe potentialities it is an actual fact.

21:1.1 When the fullness of absolute spiritual ideation in the Eternal Son encounters the fullness of absolute personality concept in the Universal Father, when such a creative union is finally and fully attained, when such absolute identity of spirit and such infinite oneness of personality concept occur, then, right then and there, without the loss of anything of personality or prerogative by either of the infinite Deities, there flashes into full-fledged being a new and original Creator Son, the only-begotten Son of the perfect ideal and the powerful idea whose union produces this new creator personality of power and perfection.

humans having children is symbolic of this. 180:1.1 After a few moments of informal conversation, Jesus stood up and said: “When I enacted for you a parable indicating how you should be willing to serve one another, I said that I desired to give you a new commandment; and I would do this now as I am about to leave you. You well know the commandment which directs that you love one another; that you love your neighbor even as yourself. But I am not wholly satisfied with even that sincere devotion on the part of my children. I would have you perform still greater acts of love in the kingdom of the believing brotherhood. And so I give you this new commandment: That you love one another even as I have loved you. And by this will all men know that you are my disciples if you thus love one another.

we are supposed to love as jesus loves which is acting like a creator son. i am stating my own beliefs. an infant needs to be nurtured to perfection by the universal father and the greatest respect and morality that you can place on the sex act is to engage in it to have children.

boomshuka wrote:
Nothing that you said is supported by the Urantia Book. First of all we are not made in the image of god. Second of all that is not at all how Creator Son's come into being, there is no intercourse between the Eternal Son and the Universal Father. Thirdly we are not live our life's like God lives his life, nor are we to go around and act like a creator son, we cannot and are not expected to act like Creator Son's. We can live as sex-creatures and have sex with our spouse. It seem's to me you are professing catholic and christian ideology's and translating them to the Urantia Book.

I am a little surprised some of your posts are allowed on this forum.


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Rich --

If you recall, you were told to restrict your postings to 5 a day. You've exceeded that limit already this morning and are now spamming the discussion board. Your account has been suspended for the remainder of the month of March.

Larry


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"it will happen" means you were going to do it regardless. nothing happened, i just counted them from looking at my profile, there's five there:

rich.sachs Post subject: Re: UAI forum is up and running again Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:51 am +0000

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Views: 280

i've contacted the forum and tried to get in touch with nigel. if you can get me active on the forum i'd appreciate it rick. 1:7.1 When Jesus talked about “the living God,” he referred to a personal Deity — the Father in heaven. The concept of the personality of Deity facilitates fellowship; it favo...


Forum: In The Media Topic: Happy New Year!

rich.sachs Post subject: Re: Happy New Year! Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:45 am +0000


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12:1.12 The Seven Superuniverses are not primary physical organizations; nowhere do their boundaries divide a nebular family, neither do they cross a local universe, a prime creative unit. Each superuniverse is simply a geographic space clustering of approximately one seventh of the organized and pa...


Forum: In The Media Topic: Urantia Blog Site

rich.sachs Post subject: Re: Urantia Blog Site Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:29 am +0000


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50000/6000000000=.0000833% what an opportunity to be of service! 23:1.4 Mortals start out as well-nigh material beings on the worlds of space and ascend inward towards the Great Centers; these solitary spirits start out at the center of all things and crave assignment to the remote creations, even t...


Forum: The Skeptics Corner Topic: Truth undeniable

rich.sachs Post subject: Re: Truth undeniable Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:11 am +0000


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i'm reading through tub again and i happen to be in paper 89 and i just read this this morning 89:9.4 And so, after long ages the cult of the sacrifice has evolved into the cult of the sacrament. Thus are the sacraments of modern religions the legitimate successors of those shocking early ceremonies...


Forum: General Urantia Book Discussion Topic: 'Life' in the Urantia Book !

rich.sachs Post subject: Re: 'Life' in the Urantia Book ! Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:44 am +0000


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2:0.2 The nature of God can be studied in a revelation of supreme ideas, the divine character can be envisaged as a portrayal of supernal ideals, but the most enlightening and spiritually edifying of all revelations of the divine nature is to be found in the comprehension of the religious life of Je...



lwatkins wrote:
He's on the verge of being removed. We just need something to push us over the edge and it will happen.

Larry



lwatkins wrote:
Rich --

If you recall, you were told to restrict your postings to 5 a day. You've exceeded that limit already this morning and are now spamming the discussion board. Your account has been suspended for the remainder of the month of March.

Larry


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rich - I fear you misunderstand "moral" or morality/immorality. Morality can never be defined by an act. Any act, every act is amoral (including sex - seems to be on your mind). Morality is defined and measured by the actor's intent and motivation for that intent prior to any "act". As the gun nuts say, guns don't kill people, people kill people. The weapon and the act itself is guilty only as vehicles for intent. As oobie so eloquently started this thread, "....moral reality is inseperable from God.", the answer really to the opening query. Moral reality is a dual concept - the universe reality is absolute - the ascender's is decided by free will choice but in no way changes or alters universe moral reality - for sin and evil are, in fact, NOT real at the universe levels. The consequences of immorality are pretty limited to those of us in the karmic slip stream of self co-creation and self determination - the gift and curse of free will in an ego dominated mortal.

To your point (again, about sex, again), physical pleasures are not evil nor immoral. Self indulgence, appetite drive, gluttony, obsession, escapism, and other attributes related to experiencing pleasure certainly have the potential for evil and sinfulness. Many truth seekers, mystics, and monks have chosen simplicity, even depravation as tools for self discipline and focus in their pursuit of truth and spirit. I believe in the efficacy of such practices if moderated and not taken to physical/mental extremes. But even such strict disciplines do not eliminate physical pleasure, for it is like unto emotional joy. Hot water, sunshine, breeze on cheek, butterflies in flight, a walk in the rain, bare toes in grass or mud - yes even monks experience pleasure. I believe the "normal" human state is designed to be and always destined to become extremely pleasureable....and quite moral, both.


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Have you forgotten that the UB says your mate (spouse, wife/husband) is a constant source of sex gratification?

You can do a search on it. :roll:

There's nothing wrong with sex propensity when released through the right channels.

But, it can be addicting...that's where self control should come in handy.

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