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Can science lead us to Spirituality?
Yes 86%  86%  [ 31 ]
No 14%  14%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 36
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Randy
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Joer, I think you mean Stephen Hawking. There are those who believe black holes may be a kind of interdimesional portal, but Stephen Hawking probably ain't one of 'em...


Yeah that’s him Randy, Stephen Hawking. :smile: I know he’s not the “inter-dimensional portal” person, But I mention him because he did so much work contemplating properties of matter, time, light and various other factors in relation to black holes.

So these things that Antwoman mentioned reminded me of how he worked and worked with concepts and ideas for years trying to find answers to questions that he and others posed.

So if I go over Antwoman’s words that stimulated this conversation, It’s seems we are attempting to understand in our own minds how these things she says might make sense to us. Does that sound right?

Now on this first statement, I take as a delightful statement of possibilities of the unknown that awaits us new discoveries. The most important thing I see, “This is fearful to some and adventurous for me”, is Antwoman’s steadfast Faith in her eternal life as evidenced by her fearlessness at any possible threat to the end of her physical life. It’s not a factor, as displayed in her excitement and zest to move forward and discover.

Then her next statement touches on what I call the experiential length of a Time Segment. And she takes that phenomenon as experienced in TIME and applies it to matter. If you have already accepted the possibility of variable lengths of a time segment in an experiential sense than her statement of malleable and fluid matter, not in the physical sense but in the experiential sense makes perfect sense.
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To put it simply, I compare it to a five minute dream that takes 8 hours to review and the 8 hour or all night dream that only takes 5 minutes to review. The unconscious collapses time and or drags time along, and we usually experience this in our dream state. Similarly, matter has the same flexibility, it can be stretched or shrunk and return to its normal shape. Everything on Earth has the same potential though we have yet to realize it
.
To put it another way to make the possibility sound more real, consider the fact as I talked about with Randy, in The Space the Last Frontier thread, that we are traveling in multiple directions (like maybe 5 ,6 or more) prescribing spirals through space simultaneously up to millions of miles per hour due to the multiple systems of space rotation and revolutions that we exist in. While to us it seems that it is only gravity that is affecting us and that we are standing still. So why couldn’t we feel the same way, as if we are fine and standing still even when to an outside observer we are painted on the side or surface of and passing through a Black Hole?
Quote:
If or when the Earth moves into a black-hole, it will be squeezed through and on the other side will regain its shape. We know that the Earth can appear to be fluid, such as in Earthquakes. Using this action as an example, the Earth can pass through a black-hole and retain its value upon re-entering normal space. (which has yet to be proven.) It has also been said that on the other side is evidence of multidimensional worlds and we will be introduced to time travel on an experiential level. Time is constant and does not change therefore, we will be able to look at events in time and see those realities. We will criticize and learn and perhaps make past events better for those who would live in those lives and future events more palatable. We will no longer have to look at history as a dictator or be afraid of the future. We can learn so much as to forgive all historical error and become better 'beings' in the universe we inhabit.

So time could be a constant in one dimension the physical measurable dimension “one click on the clock”, while being variable in another dimension, the “experiential experience of time”.

In calculus you can use infinity to determine the water pressure at any single point on the dam. The idea being that theoretically there are an infinite number of divisions that you can make between any two points. You divide infinity by itself and get a value of 1 which leaves you with the numerical value of the pressure at that point. But what if in another dimensional equation you could experience infinity from a point?

The one click on the clock never occurs because within the click you experience eternity and it never ends?

Arc wrote:
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Hey, Joe! You're definitely right about time being "funny". I've spent a lot of time pondering "time". I always come to the conclusion that it is really weird. And now, I will ask a weird question. From deep in my skeptic's heart.
Do clocks really measure time?


Hey Arc, I’ll get back to you on that in a minute….Well not the way clocks measure a minute but as a manner of expression type of minute…unless you’re in one of those states where experientially time is stretched out then it might be both… by the clock AND in a manner of expression.
:smile:

I don't know, I think TUB made me think like this. :shock:

God Bless You All. :smile:

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Last edited by Joer on Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:56 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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James Taylor, in one of his songs, suggests that "the secret of life is enjoying the passage of time." Perhaps he meant that the secret of time is enjoying the passage of life, or, perhaps he was just trying to rhyme something. Anyway, it's time I leave this discussion - I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to calculus. However, if it helps Arc, in a past life I was a molocule - the experience was rather small, insignificant - so I can help in that regard if it becomes important to do so later. :smile:

All the best, Ray


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Hey Ray! How's in going? :smile: Nothing is insignificant. The universe is within the molecule of your "being". :o

I sat down for a little lunch with thoughts of all the motions and directions I was moving in while I was sitting there. Thinking about Randy's and Arc's words. Speed, direction, velocity, vectors. So it, velocity, is speed in a certain direction. And I'm involved in movement in 5 or 6 different directions at the same time, Then I'm travelling at multiple velocities simultaneously. So then I'm thinking about Arc's experience in time, Mine, Dana's and what Antwoman expressed in terms of experiencing time at different values. Then I was thinking what if that momentary unusual experience in Time is a momentary shift of our perspective from experiencing one plane and velocity we're traveling on to another plane and velocity that we are simultaneously in?

As Arc and Randy discussed about the expected effects on speed of light when traveling at different velocities which Einstein showed would either speed Time up or slow Time down. For example lets just look at two motions we're moving in simultaneously. The earth’s rotation on it's axis and revolution around the sun. We're traveling in one direction at about 1090 miles an hour while we are rotating around the center of the earth on it's surface. At the same time we are traveling in another direction at about 69,000 miles an hour on our circuit around the sun. (Keep in mind we are also traveling in Space on other circuits simultaneously at speeds in the millions of miles per hour.)

Now there must be an equilibrium balance that stabilizes our sense of motion and direction (probably gravity based which may also be related to Space and speed) while we're traveling in multiple directions and speeds simultaneously. Well I'll continue later.

OK I’m back. So anyway I postulated because I haven’t heard about it before, this equilibrium balance that stabilizes our sense of motion and direction that makes our traveling at multiple speeds and directions simultaneously seem like an experience of a non moving or slow moving reality where Time is a constant.

Now remember Arc speaking of Einstein, said:
Quote:
He concluded that it is not time that is constant, but the velocity of light. And that time is relative to the reference frame of the observer. If an observer moves at higher velocities, time slows down. If the observer slows down, time speeds up.


I believe this, in conjunction with our equilibrium balance that stabilizes our sense of motion and direction may have something to do with OUR experiential time segment distortions.

So here we have Arc on first, “I don’t know” is on third breaking for home as Arc receives the Ball at first. The catcher is at the plate ready to receive the throw from Arc with “I don’t know closing in on him fast. There’s no way in HELLO that Arc can get him. Arc is goin’ for it anyway and as he is bringing his arm forward ready to fire off a strike to home plate and before he lets go he sees his throw a prefect strike to the catchers mitt get there in a glow of light just before the runner, and then his throw does just the same thing he saw happening.

Well anyway that’s the way I remember it. So what happen? What did Arc see? We are so eager to maintain our understandable reality that we refuse to accept newly OBSERVED phenomenon that doesn’t fit our current accepted conceptual frames of reference.

So lets look at what Einstein said to see if it can help us understand Arc’s experience. “If an observer moves at higher velocities, time slows down.” Ok let’s say Arc “sees” the runner breaking from third. He observing in a particular direction he’s traveling at multiple speeds and directions through space simultaneously something like a gyroscope that stabilizes a ship or spaceship or a camera from shaking is stabilizing our perception while all these motions are occurring that we are a part of. As Arc looks home time slows down for an instant and as he delivers his strike it speeds back up to his “normal time OBSERVATION”.

Now lets JUST CONSIDER two of the celestial motions closest to ARC that his “reference frame of the observer” is contain within. In one reference frame he is traveling at a speed of about 1090 MPH in the other he is traveling at about 69,000 MPH. So Arc is on his Spaceship Earth. His Spaceship is traveling 1090 MPH in one direction and 69,000 MPH in another direction simultaneously. His Ship’s gyroscope is keeping his observed reality constant. And then something happens he’s startled by this guy breaking home he must react fast. His Gyro already knows this, it’s on AUTO. For an instant he’s seeing the play from the 69,000 MPH perspective and time slows down they as his observation shifts to the 1090 MPH perspective where the SAME observable phenomenon is happening about 69 times faster (69000/1090). Then in that same instant the Gyro rights itself and time snaps back to normal stabilized TIME. In the time shift he saw the play speed up to where he saw it happen and then slow down to normal observable time where he completed the motion in his normal Time prospective. Making it look like it happen twice. And the glowing light? A little static from the time shift. :smile:

The theory of relativity
http://www.geocities.com/Axiom43/relativity.html

Quote:
Modern experiments have confirmed the existence of many of the effects predicted by Einstein's theory. In 1972, for instance, sensitive atomic clocks carried on spacecraft and then compared with identical clocks on the ground after the flight were found to have slowed down - meaning that time itself had passed more slowly aboard the spacecraft.

How Time Slows Down
As the speed of any object increases, its properties, as measured by an observer at rest, change. Its mass increases, its length in the direction of travel decreases and time slows down. At ordinary Earthbound speeds, even those of a jet plane, the changes are infinitesimal.
At very high speeds, however, the changes become extremely important. An astronaut travelling at 90 per cent of the speed of light, for instance, would not feel any different from his twin on Earth. But the mass of his spacecraft would be more than double, its length would be less than half and a clock on board would take an hour to record 25 minutes because time had slowed - and he would therefore be ageing at less than half the speed of his brother.
At the speed of light, the mass of his spacecraft would become infinite, its length would shrink to nothing and time aboard it would slow to a complete stop. Since this is impossible, nothing, other than light, can travel as fast as, nor faster than light. (Oh Yeah. By the way right here where they say impossible, I say bologna. My guess is, At this point is where you go into anti matter, negative Mass, and faster than light speeds. :o )

And how does Einstien’s frames of reference and relativity fit in with TUB?
Quote:
P.1260 - §3 Conceptual frames of the universe are only relatively true; they are serviceable scaffolding which must eventually give way before the expansions of enlarging cosmic comprehension. The understandings of truth, beauty, and goodness, morality, ethics, duty, love, divinity, origin, existence, purpose, destiny, time, space, even Deity, are only relatively true. God is much, much more than a Father, but the Father is man's highest concept of God; nonetheless, the Father-Son portrayal of Creator-creature relationship will be augmented by those supermortal conceptions of Deity which will be attained in Orvonton, in Havona, and on Paradise. Man must think in a mortal universe frame, but that does not mean that he cannot envision other and higher frames within which thought can take place.
:o

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rhermen wrote:
As someone who is being trained to observe the material reality without recognition of any spiritual link, I can tell you physics and calculus teaches that velocity is a function of time. Time being the independent variable and velocity the dependent variable. Miles per hour, meters per second and so forth. Of course, if you must work for a paycheck, your pay is probably also a function of time. Dollars per hour if you're an hourly employee or dollars per month if you're salaried.

But here's a speculative question (and not a logic statement) :

what if time only has meaning while we are in the likeness of mortal flesh and is actually just as maleable as matter? Is this what you are alluding to Antwoman?

p.s. I want to thank you, Joer, for being the man with the Golden Heart!


Yes, Arc,
I like to use Ezekiel's wheel - Whichever way they went, they neither turned to the right or to the left, neither forward nor backward. (I paraphrase)

This is odd in that we have to turn on our journeys in matter. However, if we have 360 degree vision, we would not have to turn, we would, like the wheel people, appear where we need to be. This is a consciousnes function that Father Pio showed us. Before him, 5 people in China have done the same, and some gurus of India. And in the Catholic Bible, Habakkuk did it too.

Thanks for writing. O:)

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To everyone who has had unusual experiences with your perception of time in recent years: I believe there IS a reason for this.

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Yes, I was speaking of the past and future eternities mentioned in TUB. As such, we find a time, such as in history and visit that time. Or we learn of a prophecy for the future and visit that time. Whether you or I visit that timeline once learning of its future occurrence does not matter, that aspect will remain for those that make such choices in the process of time.


Antwoman's use of the term "timeline" is key.

Joer states:

Quote:
So if I go over Antwoman’s words that stimulated this conversation, It’s seems we are attempting to understand in our own minds how these things she says might make sense to us. Does that sound right?


You betcha Joe!

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I believe this, in conjunction with our equilibrium balance that stabilizes our sense of motion and direction may have something to do with OUR experiential time segment distortions.


Joer,

It is not my intent to misrepresent what you have said, but I respectfully suggest that we turn this concept around. Our perception of time is changing because that which used to stabilize our sense of equilibrium in conjunction with motion and direction is no longer functioning at full capacity. It is being dismantled. Because the Force Charge of Space is increasing. I do not say this to cause fear. All is well and as it should be.

At the risk of pushing the envelope too far, I say again there is a reason for this. Joe, you once asked me on the Space the Final Frontier thread if I had any empirical data regarding my "house cleaning hypothesis." In my opinion, people who experience changing perception of time is evidence that the "house cleaning" is well underway.

Arc,

I appologize that I can't be more clear. When logic fails and posting guidelines must be observed by those who strive to be self-governing, sometimes clarity suffers. Therefore, I use metaphor and/or speculation in the attempt to convey truth, meaning, and value to the hunters of the Cosmic Easter Egg, because we all have the liberty to make up our own minds while respecting the rules of the house of Truthbook.

I speculate that the Children of the Most High were never intended to experience a timeline. What's done is done and we cannot change the past. We must go forward and learn from the past. Of course, the Children of the Most High would not have gained the amount of experience necessary to complete our spiritual heritage, had we not chosen to "fall from the Garden of Eden" by our own free will choice. I also speculate that the time is approaching when we will return from whence we came. We must be ready or risk being left behind stuck in a timeline.

Space/time creatures move freely through space but are limited by time.

Time/space creatures move freely through time but are limited by space.

But with Our True Father all things are possible. No, this is not something I am being taught in college. I believe it comes from whatever spiritual link I may possess.

I wish you all Godspeed in the Great Cosmic Easter Egg Hunt!

Randy

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Randy and all - you have my interest - sounds like fun to contemplate. It reminds me of one of my favorite limericks that I've posted here before. My contribution for the moment is as follows:

There once was a lass named Bright
who's speed was much faster then light
She went out one day
in a relative way
and came back the previous night!

More later when the time feels right. :smile:

All the best, Ray


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RayOK wrote:
Randy and all - you have my interest - sounds like fun to contemplate. It reminds me of one of my favorite limericks that I've posted here before. My contribution for the moment is as follows:

There once was a lass named Bright
who's speed was much faster then light
She went out one day
in a relative way
and came back the previous night!

More later when the time feels right. :smile:

All the best, Ray


ROFL! You got me Ray. I'm bustin' up. :o :shock: O:) Did she have a Good "TIME"? :mrgreen:

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Joer,

It is not my intent to misrepresent what you have said, but I respectfully suggest that we turn this concept around. Our perception of time is changing because that which is used to stabilize our sense of equilibrium in conjunction with motion and direction is no longer functioning at full capacity. It is being dismantled. Because the Force Charge of Space is increasing. I do not say this to cause fear. All is well and as it should be.

At the risk of pushing the envelope too far, I say again there is a reason for this. Joe, you once asked me on the Space the Final Frontier thread if I had any empirical data regarding my "house cleaning hypothesis." In my opinion, people who experience changing perception of time is evidence that the "house cleaning" is well underway.

Hey Randy, good stuff. I have a couple of questions if you don’t mind. First of all you don’t need to worry about misrepresenting anything I say. I just see it as your perspective not a misrepresentation. In terms of turning the concept around I don’t have any problem with entertaining them both or even more versions of either one. Let me ask you a few questions I have on yours then I’ll add a little more on mine. You say,
Quote:
“that which used to stabilize our sense of equilibrium in conjunction with multiple motions and directions is no longer functioning at full capacity. It is being dismantled. Because the Force Charge of Space is increasing. I do not say this to cause fear. All is well and as it should be. “
First of all it doesn’t cause me fear. Because I look forward to the changes we will experience in our Spiritual progression. I see life as much more fascinating now but I realize it is fleeting. So as long as I can put up with the aches and pains of this broken down material spaceship of a body I use to navigate in the material world, I will for the joy of experience, spiritual growth in service to God, others and myself while I’m here, put up with it.

If it abruptly ends …not a problem…that’s what death transition is like for us at this stage of world and human development anyway. So as you say, “All is well and as it should be.” But how can you tell the Force Charge of Space is increasing? I gave a very real example and simple mathematical calculations as to the multiple speeds and directions we are travelling in simultaneously to lead into my explanation as a possible reason for experiential time distortion. But [b]how does space charge affect that which is used to stabilize our sense of equilibrium in conjunction with multiple motions and directions, and maintain our sense of time, direction and motion on Earth?[/b] I’ll have to review that "house cleaning hypothesis". I forgot what it was.

To further my idea on the shift of our stabilized perception to one the is affect by the experience we are having as part of one of the other planes of motion that we exist in simultaneously as we exist here. Is that perhaps we have the capability within us and our unused portions of our brains to intentionally shift perceptions one plane to another rather than accidentally. In which case our multi plane stabilizer (that which is used to stabilize our sense of equilibrium in conjunction with Multiple motions and directions) is not malfunctioning but only indicating to us another area of control and interaction that we may have the capacity to function in when we learn how to control it.

For example, (and I hope Arc and Ray and others can get a little laugh out of this :wink: ) It’s like wiggling your ears.
When I was in the seventh grade I was amazed that my friend Angelo Morello could wiggle his ears at will. I ask him how he did that because none of the rest of us could. He said he looked in the mirror as he grimaced, grinned and made faces in the mirror. Little by little he could see when his ears raised and lowered and was able to isolate and sense JUST those muscles that would move his ears. I tried it and mastered it in about two weeks. And it has come in handy many times in social conversation as a source of amusement especially with the kids.

So I'm betting if what I suggest (the multi-plane stabilizer) exists within us I believe in future times we may be able to control it. Of course I get the sense Randy from what you say, we may have to rely on mortals from other planets to develop this control as our planet's life may be short lived in the event of a catastrophic comic event.

The other question I had Randy, is what are the parameters that distinguish these two types of creatures from one another? And which one are we?
Quote:
Space/time creatures move freely through space but are limited by time.

Time/space creatures move freely through time but are limited by space.

Arc wrote:

Quote:
Do clocks really measure time?

Arc (aka "Britney")

PS:More on clocks later.

Well Britney (aka “Arc”) I don’t think clocks measure time in the larger sense of the word and concept but they do provide a mechanical representation of time that functions well enough for us at this “time” in our development and understanding of time. Unless you have a God Clock and your on MPT, Mean Paradise Time.
:mrgreen:
Quote:
P.2 - §13 The absolute level is beginningless, endless, timeless, and spaceless. For example: On Paradise, time and space are nonexistent; the time-space status of Paradise is absolute. This level is Trinity attained, existentially, by the Paradise Deities, but this third level of unifying Deity expression is not fully unified experientially. Whenever, wherever, and however the absolute level of Deity functions, Paradise-absolute values and meanings are manifest.

P.120 - §3 Roughly: space seemingly originates just below nether Paradise; time just above upper Paradise. Time, as you understand it, is not a feature of Paradise existence, though the citizens of the central Isle are fully conscious of nontime sequence of events. Motion is not inherent on Paradise; it is volitional. But the concept of distance, even absolute distance, has very much meaning as it may be applied to relative locations on Paradise. Paradise is nonspatial; hence its areas are absolute and therefore serviceable in many ways beyond the concept of mortal mind.

P.1297 - §3 Things are time conditioned, but truth is timeless. [u]The more truth you know, the more truth you are, the more of the past you can understand and of the future you can comprehend. Is this like something you were talking about Antwoman?

P.1439 - §6 The time-space concept of a mind of material origin is destined to undergo successive enlargements as the conscious and conceiving personality ascends the levels of the universes. When man attains the mind intervening between the material and the spiritual planes of existence, his ideas of time-space will be enormously expanded both as to quality of perception and quantity of experience. The enlarging cosmic conceptions of an advancing spirit personality are due to augmentations of both depth of insight and scope of conscijusness. And as personality passes on, upward and inward, to the transcendental levels of Deity-likeness, the time-space concept will increasingly approximate the timeless and spaceless concepts of the Absolutes. Relatively, and in accordance with transcendental


Antwoman wrote:
Quote:
I like to use Ezekiel's wheel - Whichever way they went, they neither turned to the right or to the left, neither forward nor backward. (I paraphrase)

This is odd in that we have to turn on our journeys in matter. However, if we have 360 degree vision, we would not have to turn, we would, like the wheel people, appear where we need to be. This is a consciousnes function that Father Pio showed us. Before him, 5 people in China have done the same, and some gurus of India. And in the Catholic Bible, Habakkuk did it too.

I’m not sure what this means Antwoman. Does it mean Father Pio appeared somewhere he was needed from somewhere where he was that was at such a distance as to make his appearance at the new place phenomenal?

Thanks Everybody. I enjoyed these thoughts.

God Bless you all. :smile: [/u]

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P.1297 - §3 Things are time conditioned, but truth is timeless. The more truth you know, the more truth you are, the more of the past you can understand and of the future you can comprehend. Is this like something you were talking about Antwoman?


Yes, Joer.
Quote:
I'm not sure what this means Antwoman. Does it mean Father Pio appeared somewhere he was needed from somewhere where he was that was at such a distance as to make his appearance at the new place phenomenal?


Yes, Joer. 3 times, he was seen working in 3 different places at once. On a farm, in a confessional and at a meeting. ( I think). And this was the first time he 'splayed'. The other 2 times of record were similar. He found he had made all these commitments for same date/hour in his calendar, inadvertently, for each instance. This is also represented on a smaller scale in the Movie "Next" with Nicholas Cage.

One in India left his body and traveled with friends while his material body stayed behind to protect a community that needed his presence. He was away with his friends for about a year before he returned to his body.

Quote:
To further my idea on the shift of our stabilized perception to one the is affect by the experience we are having as part of one of the other planes of motion that we exist in simultaneously as we exist here. Is that perhaps we have the capability within us and our unused portions of our brains to intentionally shift perceptions one plane to another rather than accidentally. In which case our multi plane stabilizer (that which is used to stabilize our sense of equilibrium in conjunction with Multiple motions and directions) is not malfunctioning but only indicating to us another area of control and interaction that we may have the capacity to function in when we learn how to control it.


Once, when I came home from a journey with angels, I could not find my body and I panicked. A few minutes later, I looked down at my feet and saw that I was standing in it. Then I fainted (I was so overwhelmed).

Another strange experience was when I was standing in my living room talking to Angels and I intentionally lied to them. Immediately, they sent my Soul way out in the Universe and I could see that where my body should have been standing, was a small pile of dust. That was a terrible experience.

I since learned that the Soul self requires retribution for intentional spiritual negativity. So, yes, it can be disconcerting to the consciousness of the individual to experience shifts in perception. I am still learning to control those perceptions.

And to Arc's question "Do clocks really measure time?" I look back at sundials. Clocks measure light and not light, so to speak. :smile:

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Rhermen wrote:
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But the speculative question I have asked "what if time only has meaning while we are in the likeness of mortal flesh and is actually just as maleable as matter?" might suggest that time is a function of being in the likeness of mortal flesh and not a constant or absolute at all.


I kind of answered your question using Father Pio (mortal flesh). I add that time is constant because we do not yet control time, it gets away from us in some instances, going too fast in our perception or going too slow in other cases, however, it neither goes too fast nor too slow, it is constant.

What is heavy and has no weight. "Time" especially when you are standing in a long line.
My 2 cents

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Arcfixer wrote:
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12.5.1 "Like space, time is a bestowal of Paradise, but not in the same sense, only indirectly. Time comes by virtue of motion and because mind is inherently aware of sequentiality. From a practical viewpoint, motion is essential to time, but there is no universal time unit based on motion except in so far as the Paradise-Havona standard day is arbitrarily so recognized."

12.5.3 "Time and space are inseparable only in the time-space creations, the seven superuniverses. Nontemporal space (space without time) theoretically exists, but the only truly nontemporal place is Paradise area. Nonspatial time (time without space) exists in mind of the Paradise level of function."


Thought is both timeless and spaceless. We have learned that GOD is never late. We have also learned that when angels appear with a message, it is an instant of revelation for the percipient. So, from the spiritual perspective, there is no time nor space. In paradise (my experience), we think ourselves where we wish to be and perform where we wish to perform, almost simultaneously. Earthlife teaches us to plan and execute in time and sometimes, in space, such as going to a conference to express thoughts and execute subsequent ideas. These occurrences are greatly accelerated in the worlds of spirit and more so in the higher worlds until one becomes a great thought manifester in the universe, similar to what Michael did when he created the spaces and organized the times we live in today.

It is said that as we continue to spiritualize Earth, we will collapse time more and more in that what we attempt to achieve will occur more speedily than in days prior. As it is written in the Bible, you will sow in the morning and reap in the evening. (Ecclesiastes 11:6 - in some bibles) [The teaching I received from this verse is that when we cause it to grow in the morning, we must harvest it and not let it rot. in the evening.]

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Hi gang,

Wow lots of good discussion here. Big thread. Too much to comment on at length but I've skimmed by a couple of points.

A page or two back some of you mention that TUB doesn't say anything about what our scientists have termed "black holes." I think it does. Don't you guys think that TUB is referring to these space bodies as Dark Islands and in one place, Dark Giants?

I believe that "dark" is a more accurate description than black and that "Island" and "Giant" is again more accurate than hole. See pages 173 and 655 for just two examples. A search will reveal all pages where the Dark Islands of space are mentioned.


The other item is about time. Again TUB has much to say and define for us. All creature beings are cognizant of the sequence of events. We are aware of a past, can anticipate future events, and there is the ever present NOW.

Time also is a simple function of motion. We have time here on earth as our planet is spinning on its axis and we have a day and night. Further out, earth rotates around our sun and tilts back and forth on its axis so we have days, months, years and seasons.

TUB further describes the keeping of arbitrary time periods on motionless spheres for the benefit of time-conscience creature beings who may be stationed or visiting there. And for the keeping of designated time intervals across whole associated space regions.

great discussion folks!

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Last edited by Vann on Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:25 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Joer,

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But how can you tell the Force Charge of Space is increasing?


Because the net energy of the system also seems to be increasing. Physical, morontial, and spiritual.

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But how does space charge affect that which is used to stabilize our sense of equilibrium in conjunction with multiple motions and directions, and maintain our sense of time, direction and motion on Earth?


Not "is used to." Rather I mean "used to" (as in past tense) ...but perhaps I can answer your question by speculating that (in addition to the Archangel's curcuit) one or two other circuits may be coming on-line and the evidence that this is happening is a net increase in the total system energy and individuals who demonstrate greater perception of subjective mindal and/or spiritual experiences. But if true, and other universe circuits are opening up, we will need to learn how to use this new potential for the common good.

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So I'm betting if what I suggest (the multi-plane stabilizer) exists within us I believe in future times we may be able to control it. Of course I get the sense Randy from what you say, we may have to rely on mortals from other planets to develop this control as our planet's life may be short lived in the event of a catastrophic comic event.


I don't believe the event itself needs to be catastrophic. Again, I would speculate that before, when only one circuit was operational, there was a kind of "interdimensional veil" which kept sense of multiple spatial motions reduced to its lowest possible function. Maybe the "veil" has been rent assunder. And if my speculation is true, then we will need to learn how to use this new potential aspect of our consciousness like learning how to wiggle your ears (thanks very much for that laugh Joer! Its near finals week and I'm a little stressed out right now). Thanks to you as well Ray as your limerick is most appreciated.

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The other question I had Randy, is what are the parameters that distinguish these two types of creatures from one another? And which one are we?

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Space/time creatures move freely through space but are limited by time.

Time/space creatures move freely through time but are limited by space.


I would speculate that up until now, we have been space/time creatures for the most part. But if new potential is being opened up for us, in a limited fashion, then perhaps we will someday evolve into time/space creatures. And perhaps, should that day occur, other beings who have already made the transition to the next evolutionary step will stand ready to help us find equilibrium while learning to control this hypothetical potential.

Antwoman says:

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I kind of answered your question using Father Pio (mortal flesh). I add that time is constant because we do not yet control time, it gets away from us in some instances, going too fast in our perception or going too slow in other cases, however, it neither goes too fast nor too slow, it is constant.


Thank you Antwoman! Your answer is most helpful and enlightening. This too is most enlightening...

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Another strange experience was when I was standing in my living room talking to Angels and I intentionally lied to them. Immediately, they sent my Soul way out in the Universe and I could see that where my body should have been standing, was a small pile of dust. That was a terrible experience.

I since learned that the Soul self requires retribution for intentional spiritual negativity. So, yes, it can be disconcerting to the consciousness of the individual to experience shifts in perception. I am still learning to control those perceptions.


Antwoman I applaud your willingness to share these subjective mindal and/or spiritual experiences with us!

Again Joer, these things need not be catastrophic. But if we attempt to "pierce the veil" or "go through the door" with negative intentions in our heart, then our experience might be described as catastrophic.

Conversely, if we attempt this new potential aspect of our consciousness with the most positive intentions we are capable of expressing, then quite possibly, it might be the most rewarding experience of our mortal careers-short of Paradise anyway.

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Thought is both timeless and spaceless.


I agree, but I believe it possesses both speed and direction...velocity! Or let me put it this way: I believe that Mind is the prime derivative of Spirit [f'(spirit) = mind] and that Physicality is the prime derivative of Mind [f'(mind) = physicality] and is therefore the second derivative of Spirit [f''(spirit) = physicality].

Vann says:

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Time also is a simple function of motion.


I understand what your saying Vann, but in most branches of science and math it is stated the opposite of this. Motion (speed and direction; ie velocity) is a function of time. If we were to plot a chart of the earth's motion around the sun, it would be a trigonometric function which would look something like this:

Image

A nearly perfect sine wave. But not exactly perfect because the earth's orbit isn't perfectly circular. In this function [y = sin x], the x (horizontal) axis represents the period of time and is always called the independent variable. The y (vertical) axis is also called the function of x or f(x) and represents both the varying speed and direction (velocity) of the earth as it orbits the sun. The y axis is always the dependent variable. I don't mean to be nit-picky, but next semester I am going to be priviledged to take a class called observational astronomy. And my projects for this class will include using the campus' telescope (woo-hoo!) and making charts of a similar nature based on my observations of specific celestial objects.

Randy

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but next semester I am going to be priviledged to take a class called observational astronomy. And my projects for this class will include using the campus' telescope (woo-hoo!) and making charts of a similar nature based on my observations of specific celestial objects.

Cool Randy! You must be thrilled. Way to go dude! :o
That was agreat post Randy. Thanks again for all the data and info. I have some questions but you don’t need to answer until you feel comfortable in relation to finals in doing so. Good Luck on your finals!Quote:
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But how can you tell the Force Charge of Space is increasing?

Because the net energy of the system also seems to be increasing. Physical, morontial, and spiritual.

I guess I was wondering if you had any measurable physical data indicating this change in Force Charge. I figured instaed of bothering you I’d Google it. And I got your post again down at position 9. All posts came from TUB references.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Force+Charge+of+Space%22&btnG=Google+Search

So I guess you don’t have quantitative measured physical data related to the increase In Force Charge. It’s more likely qualitative perhaps noted experiential data and conceptual indicators. Would that be a fare assumption? I’ll check it (Force Charge of Space) out in TUB and see if I find anything in earth terms that might be comparable to the meaning of the expression of Force Charge of Space.

The other comment I have on this is I was wondering about other space body motions That we haven’t touched on yet. Does the Sun Rotate? If it does how many rotations in what amount of time? Does the solar system rotate ? If it takes a large amount of time to rotate would we have noticed it yet? As our solar system revolves around the galaxy what are the gravitational effects for instance when it lines up in conjunction with other solar systems as opposed to the gravity force exerted on it from the center of the galaxy. When a galaxy like Sagittarius interacts with our galaxy as it is doing now. What are the gravitational effects on the Force Charge in the vicinity.

The reason I thought about this is as I was thinking about why that charge might increase I just had a thought that it might be a gravitational effect cause by some space body or system interacting with our local space systems like the moon interacts with us with gravity forces strong enough to raise and lower the oceans repeatedly and cyclically and the effect is calculated into tide charts so they know when the strongest and weakest gravitational effect of the year will be. Perhaps there’s a spatial gravitational effect being exerted on us that has not been located or calculated yet.
Anyway after finals.

Thanks Randy. Thank you Antwoman. That was a good clarification. I've heard a lot about Father Pio, being admired and recognized by so many spiritual people. Now my curiosity is awakened again. Vann thanks for those black hole references to TUB. I have heard that before about The Dark Islands. And the Dark Giants.

Bless you all. Be the Love the world needs. :smile:

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Cool Randy! You must be thrilled. Way to go dude! :o


You got that right! I have a little time right now but I gotta make it quick...

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Good Luck on your finals!


Thank you!

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I guess I was wondering if you had any measurable physical data indicating this change in Force Charge.


Modern science doesn't refer to this as Force Charge but many do indeed perceive an increase in energy coming into our solar system.

This link is but one example. It is fairly technical and perhaps difficult to understand, but it should give some indication of empirical data compiled by others not myself.

The Galactic Environment of the Sun

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Does the Sun Rotate?


It does, but in a manner called differential rotation which means the sun rotates faster at its equator than at its poles. In a very simplified explanation this is what causes sun spots , solar flares, prominences, and coronal mass ejections according to modern astrophysics.

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Does the solar system rotate ?


Quote:
If it takes a large amount of time to rotate would we have noticed it yet?


Quote:
As our solar system revolves around the galaxy what are the gravitational effects for instance when it lines up in conjunction with other solar systems as opposed to the gravity force exerted on it from the center of the galaxy. When a galaxy like Sagittarius interacts with our galaxy as it is doing now. What are the gravitational effects on the Force Charge in the vicinity.


As far as I know, modern science does not hypothesize or theorize this. However, there may be something that occurs which might be evidence of this. It's called precession of the equinoxes. Perhaps I'll have time later after finals to discuss it.

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