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Can science lead us to Spirituality?
Yes 86%  86%  [ 31 ]
No 14%  14%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 36
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Good Morning Joer,

To put it briefly, when you fall in love, there is a new energy pouring into you and out of you.

Similarly, If you are deeply spiritual, that loving energy pours out of you and spreads around you and you become attractive to the energies and forces of those in your environment and as you travel, that same love supports and sustains you and blesses others also.

This is how I see Jesus and his friends. They moved, lived and possessed their spirits in love and continued to grow in love as they continued to serve.

This love goes on and on and on.

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Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
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That's sweet Antwoman.

Very poetically expressed allowing some of that supreme beauty show through in the art of the words as used in your expression.

Very beautifully put. It's a physical detection of that spiritual energy expressed as loving energy or another type of energy that I'm waiting for. When That atom smasher in Scandinavia comes on line in 5 or so years. I, like the scientist that are building it, expect many new discoveries of new particles and energies when that comes on line. And possible new evidence or insight into multi-dimensional realities. Finally something to test some of M-Theory's postulations. :smile:

But the energy I'm most interested in, is the energy "footprint" of Spirit. :-)
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P.2080 - §1 In a high civilization, art humanizes science, while in turn it is spiritualized by true religion--insight into spiritual and eternal values. Art represents the human and time-space evaluation of reality. Religion is the divine embrace of cosmic values and connotes eternal progression in spiritual ascension and expansion. The art of time is dangerous only when it becomes blind to the spirit standards of the divine patterns which eternity reflects as the reality shadows of time. True art is the effective manipulation of the material things of life; religion is the ennobling transformation of the material facts of life, and it never ceases in its spiritual evaluation of art.

I don't know if we're that close to discovering the ultimaton in the neutrino. My gut feeling is that it is even smaller yet. Yet I find it exciting comparing TUB science concepts with emerging science discoveries. How did Randy put it..."The Cosmic Easter Egg Hunt" Easter - The birthing into our consciousness of the entrant reality of our beings. EGG- Humankind in the womb of Our Mother's Material Reality developing for our birth through lives and transitional death into the Eternal Spiritual Reality of our Beings. and HUNT - the search and discovery of our material and spiritual realities.

Yes I like The Easter Egg Hunt, Randy. :smile: It's Very Cool! :smile:

I want to thank you Antwoman, Randy, Mr. Shakita, Majeston, Arc, Truth Bill, Gerdean, Uncle Bill, Paula L, Paula T, Tootsie, Burgo, Froggy, Mark King, Wendell, Woody, Iris, Tasneem, Karlus, Eternal Love, Tramp, Jason, Michaels, Susan, Masion whirlheads, Bill Whitehead, Artguy, Colter, Chriss, Brother_dave, Bro Dave, coyoteSon, Fatboy2, Angel, Coop, Arno, Julie, Jak, MaryJo, LarryW, JimW, gerry, Georgie, Master Ravon, Fetish. Heck I might as well just include everyone who has ever posted here for enriching my living experience while on this earth. So many good people, sons and daughters of God, so much generous sharing of the truth as we know and love it.

I know there are many I haven’t mentioned who have helped me tremendously, I just can't remember any more of the top of my head. I'm sure at any moment another 20 or 30 names would pop to mind that I would be as indebted to for the grace their sharing has brought me. By your sharing and by your questions which in themselves compel me to search for answers, I have grown. I give you my eternal gratitude. You all are so wonderful. I thank our God that my life has been touched by all of yours. :smile:

I'm so glad I found this site. I enjoyed TUB by myself for many years. And then to find so many spiritually stimulated minds so willingly ready to share the secrets they've unraveled and willing to search for the secrets that remain, which I'm sure are no secret to those who authored TUB but there must be those who are doing the spiritual equivalent of us jumping up and down with joy each time one us us sees something that's been there in plain sight all along. And FINALLY we see it.

Yes I love finding those Easter Eggs Randy. :smile: And I love looking for them too. :smile: The Hunt - The search to discover the ever present, previously unrecognized realities of the expressions of God's Love.
My friends Earl in Texas, KP and Soars. :smile: Do you like science and God? :smile:

God Bless You All. And Thank You for your Love. :smile:

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Joer wrote:
[b]Very beautifully put. It's a physical detection of that spiritual energy expressed as loving energy or another type of energy that I'm waiting for. When That atom smasher in Scandinavia comes on line in 5 or so years. I, like the scientist that are building it, expect many new discoveries of new particles and energies when that comes on line. And possible new evidence or insight into multi-dimensional realities. Finally something to test some of M-Theory's postulations. :smile:
God Bless You All. And Thank You for your Love. :smile:


You, Joer, are a great harmonizing influence on these boards. You and your friends keep me coming back for more, even though I am very heavily involved in an intense project. GOD is letting you make me take a break and its very refreshing. I thank our God that my life has been touched by all of yours.

It is said that the Scandinavian atom smasher will create a black-hole and we are all going into it. This is fearful to some and adventurous for me. I learned recently that going into a black-hole is not at all dangerous. It is a new scientific detection of multiple possibilities.

To put it simply, I compare it to a five minute dream that takes 8 hours to review and the 8 hour or all night dream that only takes 5 minutes to review. The unconscious collapses time and or drags time along, and we usually experience this in our dream state. Similarly, matter has the same flexibility, it can be stretched or shrunk and return to its normal shape. Everything on Earth has the same potential though we have yet to realize it.

If or when the Earth moves into a black-hole, it will be squeezed through and on the other side will regain its shape. We know that the Earth can appear to be fluid, such as in Earthquakes. Using this action as an example, the Earth can pass through a black-hole and retain its value upon re-entering normal space. (which has yet to be proven.) It has also been said that on the other side is evidence of multidimensional worlds and we will be introduced to time travel on an experiential level. Time is constant and does not change therefore, we will be able to look at events in time and see those realities. We will criticize and learn and perhaps make past events better for those who would live in those lives and future events more palatable. We will no longer have to look at history as a dictator or be afraid of the future. We can learn so much as to forgive all historical error and become better 'beings' in the universe we inhabit.

Thank you again for sharing.

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peace, mmgr
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
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I think I got off topic in that last post. Actually, I can't think of anything in the Bible or TUB that mentions black holes.

Sorry. :cry:

Maybe you can. O:)

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peace, mmgr
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
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It's quite possible that the theory of black holes is no more based on reality than the big bang theory was. Science is attempting to explain reality as it's observed without having the perspective that material creation is integrally linked to spiritual reality -- another reason we've been given TUB. The atoms themselves are comprised of as yet undiscovered ultimatons so attempting to describe their behavior beyond basic chemical reactions comes near to magic.

L. Watkins


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Howdy, folks.

Hi, Antwoman, Joe.

Fun discussion. I haven't found any black holes in Urantia Book either. And I sure don't know anything about them. But I like the idea of coming out the other side unsquished. :smile:

So far as time goes, I have shared one of my own most bizarre experiences with the malleability of time way back when here on Truthbook. It's definitely stretchy!

But this statement makes me wonder.
Quote:
Time is constant and does not change therefore, we will be able to look at events in time and see those realities.

Let's compare it to some Urantia perspectives.

118.3.5 "Space comes the nearest of all nonabsolute things to being absolute. Space is apparently absolutely ultimate."

130.7.4 "The universe of space is a time-related phenomenon as it is viewed from any interior position outside of the fixed abode of Paradise. The motion of time is only revealed in relation to something which does not move in space as a time phenomenon."

12.5.5 "Relationships to time do not exist without motion in space, but consciousness of time does. Man's mind is less time-bound than space-bound because of the inherent nature of mind. Even during the days of the earth life in the flesh, though man's mind is rigidly space-bound, the creative human imagination is comparatively time free."

12.5.1 "Like space, time is a bestowal of Paradise, but not in the same sense, only indirectly. Time comes by virtue of motion and because mind is inherently aware of sequentiality. From a practical viewpoint, motion is essential to time, but there is no universal time unit based on motion except in so far as the Paradise-Havona standard day is arbitrarily so recognized."

12.5.3 "Time and space are inseparable only in the time-space creations, the seven superuniverses. Nontemporal space (space without time) theoretically exists, but the only truly nontemporal place is Paradise area. Nonspatial time (time without space) exists in mind of the Paradise level of function."

42.11.4 "Motion and universe gravitation are twin facets of the impersonal time-space mechanism of the universe of universes. The levels of gravity response for spirit, mind, and matter are quite independent of time, but only true spirit levels of reality are independent of space (nonspatial)."

From the world of science, Einstein's E=mc2 thing is all about how time varies with velocity.

So, Antwoman, none of this seems to support your statement that time doesn't change. I was wondering if you actually meant the "past" doesn't change, and is available for review, like a video?

Peace,
Arc


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As someone who is being trained to observe the material reality without recognition of any spiritual link, I can tell you physics and calculus teaches that velocity is a function of time. Time being the independent variable and velocity the dependent variable. Miles per hour, meters per second and so forth. Of course, if you must work for a paycheck, your pay is probably also a function of time. Dollars per hour if you're an hourly employee or dollars per month if you're salaried.

But here's a speculative question (and not a logic statement) :

what if time only has meaning while we are in the likeness of mortal flesh and is actually just as maleable as matter? Is this what you are alluding to Antwoman?

p.s. I want to thank you, Joer, for being the man with the Golden Heart!

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Howdy, folks.

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As someone who is being trained to observe the material reality without recognition of any spiritual link, I can tell you physics and calculus teaches that velocity is a function of time. Time being the independent variable and velocity the dependent variable.


Hi, Randy. As someone who has completed his training as a molecular physicist, for which a mastery of calculus is a requirement, all I can say is that if you are trying to make a point, it is not obvious.:smile:

Surely, being highly trained and all, you are not trying to tell us that modern physicists believe that time is constant. Perhaps you have heard of Albert Einstein. I mentioned him and his work in my previous post. Please note his work is not based on any "spiritual" principals. And as a physicist, certainly you are familiar with the famous Michelson-Morley experiment of 1887 and its consequences.

For the benefit of the readers who are not physicists, Michelson and Morley were attempting to determine the absolute motion of the Earth by using the ether as a point of reference. In those days physicists believed that space was permeated by a substance called ether. The concept of ether was necessary, according to Newtonian mechanics, as a medium for the propagation of electromagnetic waves. Ether was an almost universally accepted concept. The experiment was simple. Point beams of light in different directions, and measure its velocity in each direction. Central to the physics of the day was the notion that time and space are constant. And that the velocity of light must vary as the velocity of the Earth along the axis of the beam was added. Much to their chagrin, no matter which way they pointed their beam of light, it's velocity was the same. This was impossible according to Newtonian physics. According to their experiment, Michelson and Morley had to conclude that ether didn't exist, and Newton's work was flawed. And Newton was god to physicists in those days. Rather than accept this conclusion, for some time they were sure there must be some flaw in their experiment.

Meanwhile, at the Swiss Patent Office in Zürich, Albert Einstein examined patent applications. He had studied physics at University, but was an undistinguished student. Hence the job at the patent office, and not at a University. He was aware of Michelson and Morley's experiment. Rather than try to explain away their experimental results, he accepted them.

He concluded that it is not time that is constant, but the velocity of light. And that time is relative to the reference frame of the observer. If an observer moves at higher velocities, time slows down. If the observer slows down, time speeds up. In 1905, he published a paper saying so. And many subsequent experiments have proven that he was right. Time does vary with velocity. And Einstein had a catchy little mathematical expression for this experimentally validated concept. E=mc2.

Peace,
Arc


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You're right Arc, I have never been taught the velocity of light is constant, but I have most assuredly been taught the speed of light is,

or is it?

I never stated that I am highly trained, I stated that I am being trained. And Arc if you have mastered calculus, something I admittedly have yet to achieve, surely you know what a function is; as both differential and integral calculus deal with functions and the derivatives of same?

Supposedly the speed of light is 186,282 miles per second in a vacuum. A given distance per unit of time. But this rate changes as light travels through matter. The speed of light slows down as matter becomes more dense. The velocity of light changes in the presence of mass.

But the speculative question I have asked "what if time only has meaning while we are in the likeness of mortal flesh and is actually just as maleable as matter?" might suggest that time is a function of being in the likeness of mortal flesh and not a constant or absolute at all.

Or to put it in another way, what if time is a function of the quarantine whose purpose is to keep rebellious mortals divided, separate, and isolated from the timeless universe?

And yes I have heard of good ol' Albert. I have also heard of the famous Michelson-Morely experiment as well as the famous experiments of Galileo. But in the same way you, Arc, misrepresented what I said, perhaps these famous experiments (and experimentors) have also have been misrepresented. Just like the constants of time and the speed of light.

re skepticism:

Skepticism is the tool scientists use to test every aspect of an explanation. Scientists try to tell stories about how nature and the universe works. Stories which begin as hypotheses and evolve into theories. To create such stories, scientists cannot create facts to fit their story. Rather, every link in a scientific story must be based on evidence and logic. Skepticism is not a refusal to hold beliefs or faith. Skepticism is the tool scientists use to find universal principals worthy of belief and faith.

Quote:
"I like to move at the speed of light. Albert says I can't but I can." Jefferson Starship


No, I don't believe the body can move at the speed of light, but I do believe that mind and spirit most assuredly can if (or when) they leave the body behind. Just don't stretch the silver cord too far or the golden chalise will break.

Randy

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Antwomen, Larry, Randy and Arc! Great Discussion!

I remember Arc's experience and that coupled with Randy's question of the three day mind circuit transit problem I was looking at, at that time. (Time...funny isn't it. How freely we use that word. :smile: ) Along with the time value as postulated with relation to the black hole.

Along with what that Physicist in the wheel chair with a computerized voice, I forgot his name, postulated in the evolving of his theories and arguments with other physicists about how we don't lose any information (data) at the edge and through the black hole it is stretched and sort of painted on the sides of the hole as reality passes through.

Well anyway back to the Time Stuff. Larry would you please ask Randy if he would accept access to Abners. The experience ARC referred to as well as other discussion about time is there. Perhaps we can see some other arguments (scientifically speaking not personally) that can enter into this discussion. Randy I hope you accept this invitation in the interest of discussion, but if you don't I whole heatedly respect your decision. Who am I to argue with the FREE WILL God gave you. Mine is to Love Yours is to Decide. It's the same for all of us. None Judge but God. :smile:

Anyway the one thing I got out of that discussion that I think applies to this one is the experiential length of a Time Segment. The experience of Time can vary for us. Thus causing for some unusual experiences in relation to what we "normally" experience as a time segment. A second is a second, a minute is a minute, an hour is an hour,....or is it?

So here's some links and an excerpt. I won't be on much because I have family stuff to attend to. But this looks like a GOOD DISCUSSION. Passion and Truth. :smile: I won't be able to post much, family stuff coming up. But I'll be watching and enjoying the thoughts. bless you all. Merry Christmas. :smile:

Lost Time issue/problem/occurance
http://forums.truthbook.com/viewtopic.php?t=1927&highlight=imports


Actuality

http://forums.truthbook.com/viewtopic.php?t=1793&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

I just ran across this while looking for an answer to a question Gerdean posed about when a mortal ceases to exists if a mortal is not judged to have asention value.

P.315 - §2 3. The Import of Time. Time is the one universal endowment of all will creatures; it is the "one talent" intrusted to all intelligent beings. You all have time in which to insure your survival; and time is fatally squandered only when it is buried in neglect, when you fail so to utilize it as to make certain the survival of your soul. Failure to improve one's time to the fullest extent possible does not impose fatal penalties; it merely retards the pilgrim of time in his journey of ascent. If survival is gained, all other losses can be retrieved.

P.315 - §3 In the assignment of trusts the counsel of the Imports of Time is invaluable. Time is a vital factor in everything this side of Havona and Paradise. In the final judgment before the Ancients of Days, time is an element of evidence. The Imports of Time must always afford testimony to show that every defendant has had ample time for making decisions, achieving choice.

P.315 - §4 These time evaluators are also the secret of prophecy; they portray the element of time which will be required in the completion of any undertaking, and they are just as dependable as indicators as are the frandalanks and chronoldeks of other living orders. The Gods foresee, hence foreknow; but the ascendant authorities of the universes of time must consult the Imports of Time to be able to forecast events of the future.

P.315 - §5 You will first encounter these beings on the mansion worlds, and they will there instruct you in the advantageous use of that which you call "time," both in its positive employment, work, and in its negative utilization, rest. Both uses of time are important.

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Joe - The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.


Last edited by Joer on Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:37 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Good Morning Arc, :smile:
Arc Fixer wrote:
Howdy, folks.

Hi, Antwoman, Joe.

But this statement makes me wonder.
Quote:
Time is constant and does not change therefore, we will be able to look at events in time and see those realitiesLet's compare it to some Urantia perspectives.

So, Antwoman, none of this seems to support your statement that time doesn't change. I was wondering if you actually meant the "past" doesn't change, and is available for review, like a video?



Yes, I was speaking of the past and future eternities mentioned in TUB. As such, we find a time, such as in history and visit that time. Or we learn of a prophecy for the future and visit that time. Whether you or I visit that timeline once learning of its future occurrence does not matter, that aspect will remain for those that make such choices in the process of time.

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peace, mmgr
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
http://www.marmsweb.com


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Quote:
Along with what that Physicist in the wheel chair with a computerized voice, I forgot his name, postulated in the evolving of his theories and arguments with other physicists about how we don't lose any information (data) at the edge and through the black hole it is stretched and sort of painted on the sides of the hole as reality passes through.


Joer, I think you mean Stephen Hawking. There are those who believe black holes may be a kind of interdimesional portal, but Stephen Hawking probably ain't one of 'em...

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Last edited by rhermen on Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:01 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Howdy, folks.

Hi, Antwoman. I figured that was what you meant, but I got this thing about clarity.:smile:

I have a similar notion. Somewhere, UB states that only events of spiritual import will be saved. I have no way of being sure what is of spiritual import from my current immature perspective, but it's sounds like it will be a something like a "highlight" film. I hope so. I could only watch someone floss their teeth so many times.

Hi, Randy. Of course I was being facetious. And if I misrepresented you, it was only because I didn't understand you. My bad. And while it's true I was trained in molecular physics, I never worked as a physicist or a molecule. I'm certainly no authority on physics. But I did get a good college education. Meaning when I came out of college I wasn't much dumber than when I went in. Anyway, while there, I did lots of physics, and enough calculus to make a grown man cry. I often did.

But since my post was a response to Antwoman's post, and we were talking about time, I thought you were, too. But as I said, your post was brief, and not very clear. As you say, speed and velocity, are different. Michelson and Morley were measuring the velocity of light. It's speed in different directions. They thought their light beams speed would be higher when pointed in some directions, and lower when pointed in others. But their measurements of the velocity of light showed that it's speed never varied. To go further would involve getting in to some calculus. And I'm beginning to sob already. Before anyone else begins to cry, let's leave it for another day.

But I will certainly agree that science only knows what it knows, and the most revered, well proven theory of the day is never more than one new experiment away from oblivion. And things are often not as they seem.

As to your question about time being a special condition of the quarantine, I would say no. There was time on Earth before the quarantine, and will be time after it is lifted. There are millions of worlds of time which have never been under quarantine. Does the quarantine somehow modify our time? I don't know. By the way, there is a discussion going on now about the quarantine. The thread about "Broadcasts". The answer to some of your questions might be found there.

Hey, Joe! You're definitely right about time being "funny". I've spent a lot of time pondering "time". I always come to the conclusion that it is really weird. And now, I will ask a weird question. From deep in my skeptic's heart.

Do clocks really measure time?

Peace,
Arc


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Arc,

You did it again. I said "function" not "special condition" and we have by and large been carefully "conditioned" to believe that clocks measure time. But clocks may actually be an everyday example of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. Something usually confined to Quantum Realities according to modern physics anway.

Randy

p.s. it's 11:10... got a minute?

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Howdy, folks.

Oops! :smile:

Hi, Randy. Let's see if I can get it right this time.

Quote:
what if time is a function of the quarantine whose purpose is to keep rebellious mortals divided, separate, and isolated from the timeless universe?

This is possible, but not as described in The Urantia Book.

Quote:
"what if time only has meaning while we are in the likeness of mortal flesh and is actually just as maleable as matter?" might suggest that time is a function of being in the likeness of mortal flesh and not a constant or absolute at all.

This is also possible, but not as described in UB.

Of course, my world does not begin and end with the covers of the Urantia Book. I am always open to other views. So, would you care to elaborate? What if your statements are true?

And finally:
Quote:
p.s. it's 11:10... got a minute?

Once again, I'm not sure of your meaning. Lest I "do it again", would you be so kind as to make it clear exactly what you mean by this?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Peace,
Arc (aka "Britney")

PS:More on clocks later.


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